NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

[youngirish]

Not so. One member suggested banning him, everyone else who responded said he should be retained - for comedy value, if nothing else!

Btw, was it you asked for me to be banned a wee while back? Might have been Eireboy (or somebody else). Sorry to be so vague, but "youssuns is all the same" to me and I can't be arsed to look it up...
I hold my hand up EG it was me for which I must apologise but in fairness it was after listening to years and years of your ramblings to which I had been understandably driven to the edge of my sanity and not after 6 posts as per above.

[EalingGreen]

thats good but far fewer people watch u21..maybe 200? and he wouldnt be known to anyone as a celtic player...wait till he starts scoring goals against rangers!

Any fan who is keen enough to attend an NI U-21 game will undoubtedly be interested enough to know a bit about the players. In this case, Celtic's Michael McGovern is reasonably well known amongst our fans, not least for having captained the team recently, in the absence of the regular captain (fellow Fermanaghman, Kieran McKenna* of Tottenham). And I think he might even have made the Celtic bench once or twice recently, following a spate of injuries.

Mind you, Michel's not likely to score too many against Rangers, seeing as he's a goalkeeper...;)

* - On the general subject of eligibility, it was interesting to note that Kieran McKenna was 21 recently, which means he could not switch to the ROI, even if he wanted to. I only mention this, since he is an example of a young NI player who was begge... er, approached by the FAI in Kerr's time, thereby giving the lie to the notion that it is the players who always make the first approach, or that all young players from a Nationalist background would prefer to play for the ROI, given the choice...

[EalingGreen]

I've seen Kane play, he is shi*e, well and truly, he's worse than that Joe O'ceerereraaoul

I saw O'Ceeeeeeerereaoul play last season on loan for Brighton and if his performance that day is anything to go by, Kane simply could not be worse than him. In fact, I doubt if Kane's mammy could have done much worse...:eek:

Anyhow, assuming Kane does accept the invitation to the squad, I for one hope he gets a warm welcome from everyone involved

[EalingGreen]

That's the article, thanks.I remembered it for the low standard public posturing by Wells not to mention the journo, swept away on a tide of Wells hot air,writing that Darron could be available to be called up to the NI squad at the end of August.

Irrespective of the posturing/hot air/DG's availability in August etc, do you accept Wells's contention that the FAI has still to get back to FIFA on this issue, or do you consider he is making it up (the only other possibility)?

[Not Brazil]

thats good but far fewer people watch u21..maybe 200? and he wouldnt be known to anyone as a celtic player...wait till he starts scoring goals against rangers!

Closer to 1,500 actually - and mainly the type of fan who would know exactly who each player plays his club football for.

And if he starts scoring goals against Rangers, frankly, I'd be amazed - he's, err, a goalkeeper.

[Not Brazil]

Ha ha. The cry of the authoritarian throughout the ages. Why gag him? He's hardly covered himself with much credibility has he? Who's going to take much notice of him and his insane ramblings?


Maybe something for the TWO posters who called for him to be banned to ponder?

[Not Brazil]

I've seen Kane play, he is shi*e, well and truly, he's worse than that Joe O'ceerereraaoul

:D

Brilliant.

[EalingGreen]

As for FIFA and Gibson, are you saying that FIFA can never misinterpret or misapply their own Rules and Regulations, or make an incorrect interpretation or application on the basis of incorrect or inadequate information?

eg

FIFA endorsed Alex Bruce's right to represent Ireland in Jan 06, the IFA queried the decision and were told 'the existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland'.". The IFA then queried the rights of Gibson, Kane etc.. and were told in an official response in October of that year 'the existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland'."

FIFA did not misinterpret or misapply their own Rules and Regulations or make an incorrect interpretation. They gave the same answer in both cases.

Should the situation be so clear cut as you characterise it, then why is it taking FIFA so long (several months, now) to point this out to the IFA, for what would be the third time (at least)? :confused:

[EalingGreen]

EU Legislations is full of little bits annexed onto the end of them with regard to Irish nationality and loads of different things related to the situation in Ireland. For instance, positive discrimination re: catholics teachers in schools and catholics in psni etc. I would imagine legally, if the outcome of FIFA in the brazil/qatari case is to say go away son you can't play for qatar just because you weren't good enough for brazil/they offered you a load of cash, then the are going to say you are either resident, born, parents or grandparents born in the country you want to play for. That would do FIFA to stop that problem. Then, FIFA will also look at the issue which i'm sure they will already be well aware of and come out with what is almost a get-out clause for the fai and fifa themselves and annex onto the end of this rule something along the lines of "due to the complex political climate in Northern Ireland and under the provisions in *GFA LEG.* (Enter here) which entitle and person born on the Island of Ireland to gain citizenship and therefore a passport of Ireland, they shall be entitled to represent either Rep. Ireland or Northern Ireland.

Obviously far more elequently than I have put it in the 2 mins i spent on it but im sure you get the gist...I think that is what is likely to happen.

How bizarre that you should make vague reference to EU legislations [sic] over a matter regarding FIFA's footballing regulations. They're not the same. FIFA has 206 Member Associations, the vast majority of which are located outside the EU. As is FIFA itself.

As for the postion of "catholic teachers or police officers etc", how is this in any way relevant to Darron Gibson? And where has the GFA ever mentioned football, or FIFA the GFA?

Have you been smoking some of that funny tobacco that students are said to be fond of? ;)

[livehead1]

How bizarre that you should make vague reference to EU legislations [sic] over a matter regarding FIFA's footballing regulations. They're not the same. FIFA has 206 Member Associations, the vast majority of which are located outside the EU. As is FIFA itself.

As for the postion of "catholic teachers or police officers etc", how is this in any way relevant to Darron Gibson? And where has the GFA ever mentioned football, or FIFA the GFA?

Have you been smoking some of that funny tobacco that students are said to be fond of? ;)

I was giving examples where annexations have been used in legislation that has related to the Ireland. If you thought about things a little more before simply replying you would maybe understand that.

The GFA does not need to be mentioned by FIFA. It is the GFA which allows occupants of the North Irish passports, that has led to this confusion in some peoples minds.

FIFA's regulations are not sufficient in this matter; however, I believe they're not bothered about this matter greatly, they're more concerned about the Qatar problem. However, when they do rule on that issue, it may be sensible of them to issue an annexation to the legislation they provide, which lays to rest once and for all the problems that many people in the north seem to be having trouble getting they're head around, which is that people born in their territory are choosing to play for the Republic.

[EalingGreen]

I hold my hand up EG it was me for which I must apologise but in fairness it was after listening to years and years of your ramblings to which I had been understandably driven to the edge of my sanity and not after 6 posts as per above.

So you condemn one or two wholly unrepresentative posters on OWC for suggesting KK be banned because they didn't like what he posted, soon after calling for me to be banned from this site because you don't like what I post.

And all this a day or two after Livehead complained that he, an ROI fan, could not post on the NI fans website, after he had previouly urged me to clear off from this site on the grounds that I am not an ROI fan?

Do I detect a trend? ;)

[livehead1]

So you condemn one or two wholly unrepresentative posters on OWC for suggesting KK be banned because they didn't like what he posted, soon after calling for me to be banned from this site because you don't like what I post.

And all this a day or two after Livehead complained that he, an ROI fan, could not post on the NI fans website, after he had previouly urged me to clear off from this site on the grounds that I am not an ROI fan?

Do I detect a trend? ;)


get sick of listening to the same oul diatribe. you could say what you have to say in a much condensed form. i dont attempt to name call your academic ability either, so take a look in the mirror (probably the computer screen in your case) before criticising me!!!!

[youngirish]

So you condemn one or two wholly unrepresentative posters on OWC for suggesting KK be banned because they didn't like what he posted, soon after calling for me to be banned from this site because you don't like what I post.

Yeah. I thought I explained the differences though and my reasons for suggesting this. Why do you ignore certain parts people's posts while selectively commenting on other parts, ignoring the overall context?

[co. down green]

I saw O'Ceeeeeeerereaoul play last season on loan for Brighton and if his performance that day is anything to go by, Kane simply could not be worse than him. In fact, I doubt if Kane's mammy could have done much worse...:eek:

Anyhow, assuming Kane does accept the invitation to the squad, I for one hope he gets a warm welcome from everyone involved

I was speaking to someone last night who knows the Kane situation pretty well.

It seems that Tony was told last week by Don Givens that he did not meet the standard required for the Ireland u21 side at present, thus his exclusion from the 18 man squad for the u21 qualifiers in Cork next week.

According to Nigel Worthington he has been named in the squad to "give him the opportunity to decide for himself but he seems pretty keen at the minute," said Worthington. (All Worthington statements should come with a health warning, after his lies about Darron Gibson).

If he does not meet the standard then its the kids decision, but you would have thought he might have fought to secure a position in the future, or perhaps he will just take the easy option.

Time will tell.

[paul_oshea]

Closer to 1,500 actually - and mainly the type of fan who would know exactly who each player plays his club football for.

And if he starts scoring goals against Rangers, frankly, I'd be amazed - he's, err, a goalkeeper.


I thought he was a right back?!

[Not Brazil]

This happened the day that the IFA flew the Union rag over Windsor Park.

The National flag of the United Kingdom Of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Union Flag, does not fly in any official capacity at Northern Ireland games held at Windsor Park.

The Union Flag that normally flies in an official capacity at Windsor Park, is removed for Northern Ireland international matches.

Interestingly, the flying of the Union Flag at Windsor Park, by Linfield Football Club, does not seem to have deterred the increasingly numerous amount of players from a nationalist background playing (at all age levels) for that particular club.

[EalingGreen]

I was giving examples where annexations have been used in legislation that has related to the Ireland. If you thought about things a little more before simply replying you would maybe understand that.

The GFA does not need to be mentioned by FIFA. It is the GFA which allows occupants of the North Irish passports, that has led to this confusion in some peoples minds.

FIFA's regulations are not sufficient in this matter; however, I believe they're not bothered about this matter greatly, they're more concerned about the Qatar problem. However, when they do rule on that issue, it may be sensible of them to issue an annexation to the legislation they provide, which lays to rest once and for all the problems that many people in the north seem to be having trouble getting they're head around, which is that people born in their territory are choosing to play for the Republic.

"Annexations" [sic] are what eg the Nazis did to Austria, or the Sudetenland.

And indeed the GFA does not need to be mentioned by [sic] FIFA. Which is why it hasn't been.

And if it is the GFA which "allows occupants of the North Irish Passports" [sic], the GFA hardly selects international football teams. (Though it is actually the Government in Dublin which allocates Irish Passports to people from NI, something they were doing long before the GFA was ever even conceived)

And as for you final paragraph, the one thing I have no difficulty getting my head round is the fact that some "people born in their territory [sic] are choosing to play for the Republic". It is the rest of the drivel which I cannot understand...:rolleyes:

P.S. You have been smoking, haven't you? ;)

[paul_oshea]

Interestingly, the flying of the Union Flag at Windsor Park, by Linfield Football Club, does not seem to have deterred the increasingly numerous amount of players from a nationalist background playing (at all age levels) for that particular club.

hmm that sort of comment makes me wonder immensely at what you hope for those in the north.

[Not Brazil]

I thought he was a right back?!

Keeper - Mickey McGovern.

[paul_oshea]

Keeper - Mickey McGovern.

I thought we were on about Tony Kane? ah well...

[livehead1]

"Annexations" [sic] are what eg the Nazis did to Austria, or the Sudetenland.

And indeed the GFA does not need to be mentioned by [sic] FIFA. Which is why it hasn't been.

And if it is the GFA which "allows occupants of the North Irish Passports" [sic], the GFA hardly selects international football teams. (Though it is actually the Government in Dublin which allocates Irish Passports to people from NI, something they were doing long before the GFA was ever even conceived)

And as for you final paragraph, the one thing I have no difficulty getting my head round is the fact that some "people born in their territory [sic] are choosing to play for the Republic". It is the rest of the drivel which I cannot understand...

P.S. You have been smoking, haven't you? ;)


well i hope most people can understand it! stop being a tosser..in case you cant tell, i dont pay too much attention to:D grammer:D on here!

[Not Brazil]

hmm that sort of comment makes me wonder immensely at what you hope for those in the north.

Certainly not for sporting division, along sectarian lines, as is the implied desire by some over the Darron Gibson thing.

I hope for a pluralist Northern Ireland - a Northern Ireland at peace with itself, where everyone prospers.

Against a background of the, age old, constitutional question now being agreed, I believe that to be a realistic and desireable objective.

[Not Brazil]

I thought we were on about Tony Kane? ah well...

We were sidetracked into discussing Celtic players playing for Northern Ireland.

[EalingGreen]

I was speaking to someone last night who knows the Kane situation pretty well.

It seems that Tony was told last week by Don Givens that he did not meet the standard required for the Ireland u21 side at present, thus his exclusion from the 18 man squad for the u21 qualifiers in Cork next week.

According to Nigel Worthington he has been named in the squad to "give him the opportunity to decide for himself but he seems pretty keen at the minute," said Worthington. (All Worthington statements should come with a health warning, after his lies about Darron Gibson).

If he does not meet the standard then its the kids decision, but you would have thought he might have fought to secure a position in the future, or perhaps he will just take the easy option.

Time will tell.

So what you're saying is that is that after apparently having been told by Givens that he's not good enough for the ROI U-21's at present, he may be considering reverting to play for NI.

If nothing else, that kinda tears the arse out of the notion that all NI Nationalists hold to the Darron Gibson "it's the Republic or nothing" stance.

Unless, of course, Kane's just keeping his hand in with NI whilst he persuades Givens to reconsider, in which case, he'd better be quick, seeing as it was his 20th Birthday yesterday.

Either way, it's lucky for Kane (and the rest of us) that there are really "two teams in Ireland..."

[geysir]

Irrespective of the posturing/hot air/DG's availability in August etc, do you accept Wells's contention that the FAI has still to get back to FIFA on this issue, or do you consider he is making it up (the only other possibility)?

Sounds like Wells is making it up if only because imo it has all the hallmarks of populist bleating. The FAI have kept a low public profile as is right and proper and is more in keeping with Darren's intrests

It is remotely possible that someone in FIFA wanted to know for the umteenth time that Irish nationality does not entitle you to play for any UK or other team, that Darron is a dual national therefore the annex criteria doesn't apply.

[co. down green]

So what you're saying is that is that after apparently having been told by Givens that he's not good enough for the ROI U-21's at present, he may be considering reverting to play for NI.

If nothing else, that kinda tears the arse out of the notion that all NI Nationalists hold to the Darron Gibson "it's the Republic or nothing" stance.

Unless, of course, Kane's just keeping his hand in with NI whilst he persuades Givens to reconsider, in which case, he'd better be quick, seeing as it was his 20th Birthday yesterday.

Either way, it's lucky for Kane (and the rest of us) that there are really "two teams in Ireland..."

Players will always look after their own interests first, nothing wrong or unusual in that idea..

If nothing else, that kinda tears the arse out of the notion that all NI Nationalists hold to the Darron Gibson "it's the Republic or nothing" stance.

Not sure what you are on about, players from differing backgrounds in the North have always made their own career choices, be it Linfield supporter Alan Kernaghan representing Ireland or former hurler Chris Baird playing for the North.

The important word is choice

If only some could accept this simple concept.

FIFA do.

[SkStu]

Players will always look after their own interests first, nothing wrong or unusual in that idea..

If nothing else, that kinda tears the arse out of the notion that all NI Nationalists hold to the Darron Gibson "it's the Republic or nothing" stance.

Not sure what you are on about, players from differing backgrounds in the North have always made their own career choices, be it Linfield supporter Alan Kernaghan representing Ireland or former hurler Chris Baird playing for the North.

The important word is choice

If only some could accept this simple concept.

FIFA do.


best and most reasonable and sensible post ive read in this painful thread.

[Paddy Garcia]

Either way, it's lucky for Kane (and the rest of us) that there are really "two teams in Ireland..."

Fair enough, have to agree with you there. In fact more than 2 : ....

A team - Ireland
B team - Ireland Reserves
C team - The North

[Not Brazil]

Not sure what you are on about, players from differing backgrounds in the North have always made their own career choices, be it Linfield supporter Alan Kernaghan representing Ireland or former hurler Chris Baird playing for the North.


When did Alan Kernaghan play for "Ireland", and who are "The North" that Chris Baird plays for?

Alan Kernaghan played for the Republic Of Ireland.

Chris Baird plays for Northern Ireland.

[Maroon 7]

When did Alan Kernaghan play for "Ireland", and who are "The North" that Chris Baird plays for?

Alan Kernaghan played for the Republic Of Ireland.

Chris Baird plays for Northern Ireland.

Here we go again.:rolleyes:

NB people use the terms north or south often as shorthand. Just a turn of phrase.

Plus generally people call the football team in the "south" Ireland and will undoubtably continue to do so. Not out of badness but just because that's what people have called them for donkey's years.

Now call yourselves whatever you want but please don't start lecturing us on what we call ourselves.

And even if someone describes you as "the north" it's surely preferable to being called beggars?

[geysir]

You're in the Ireland forum now, leave your bags somewhere else.

[lopez]

Your first paragraph is pure cobblers on two counts. First, do you honestly imagine that the likes of Danny Blanchflower, Peter McParland, Jimmy McIlroy, Pat Jennings, George Best, Norman Whiteside etc would not have been "good enough" to play for ROI?
So much drivel...so little time. What I was saying was that there was never a player who from the north was BOTH good enough AND wanted to play for Ireland (ROI to you) until Gibson. However, both Jennings and Best actively insisted they would have played for 'Ireland' (IFA/FAI joint team) as did Derek Dougan...can give quotes for the latter two if wanted.

Second, there were no NI-born senior internationals representing the ROI from the late 40's until Gibson, because the FAI adhered to the Gentlemens' Agreement brokered by FIFA in 1950 that the FAI would not pick IFA players (and v.v.). When Brian Kerr became ROI manager, the FAI ceased to "behave like Gentlemen". Since then, Gibson was the only one who was good enough, was prepared to switch and who was not already tied in with NI.
B*llocks. There were O6C born players in the youth teams. Not Kerr's, McCarthy's or Staunton's fault they were not good enough.

Re. your 2nd paragraph, I only know of two players, one of whom (Channel Islander Woods) would have been denied any chance of an International footballing career with anyone, had NI not given him the option. And two is not "two more than" the NI-born players you've been able to pick, it's one more. Is the mathematics too difficult for you, or do you now accept that perhaps Gibson might not be eligible for you?
No! That's two more when both your players were first capped, than who were born in the O6C playing for Ireland since the late 1940s. It probably explains why I got an O Level in my 4th year for maths and you got the Tufty Club Degree for reading about the same level.

Your third paragraph is similarly cobblers. The four British Associations are given a clear exemption (separate status) from the Regs governing all other Associations regarding certain issues, including player eligibility. It's there in black and white.
It looks like we got a similar exemption regarding Bruce Junior (and Kernaghan and McAteer). Hows about trying to live with it?

Whereas, there is nowhere any explicit exemption from any of the Regs for ROI players, or the FAI. On the contrary, the FAI are relying on an interpretation of the existing Regs on player eligibility which apply to all other Associations, backed up by FIFA's October Letter. (And the IFA is challenging that interpretation and letter)
Good luck!

As for your fourth paragraph: yet more cobblers. The IFA does not fly the Union Flag over Windsor at internationals.
They flew it within the lifeltime of Gibson, which is what I said if you bothered to read the post.

The IFA does not allow such scarves (or anything remotely similar) to be sold at NI internationals.
These too were sold within the lifetime of Gibson

No NI player has been booed for his religion/politics/club for years.
How many years to be precise?

The IFA is in no way responsible for an anonymous death threat phoned, without a recognised codeword, to a newspaper.
I apologise for that. It was a disgruntled Taig with a 20p coin.

Instead, they publicly deplored it.
I'd be surprised if they said it was what they wanted.

And your ludicrous and offensive allegation that the NI team is "de facto Unionist" would come as a great surprise to a number of its players who come from a clearly Nationalist background, not least our newest captain, Chris Baird, a former Rasharkin GAA player (plus his family members who were in the crowd).
It wouldn't come as a surprise to the family of Neil Lennon.

Of course, I can't say exactly who/how many these number, since no-one is interested enough to keep a record. But I daresay we could get an idea by the number who choose only to carry Irish Passports, following the IFA recently lobbying FIFA successfully for their players to have the right to do so in preference to British ones.
Why bring it up, if no one is interested in the numbers? Don't remember asking for them myself.

And as for your last paragraph, it started off very promisingly, then reverted to cobblers from the second sentence.
P.S. It has just occurred to me that Irish readers may not be familiar with the term "cobblers", since it is Cockney rhyming slang (cobblers awls = balls). My use of the term must come from my having lived in England all this time...;)
Going a bit 'off topic here, EG?

Originally Posted by shanekerins
'As opposed to the vile anti semetic and and Nazi celebrations that went on the last time ROI played Israel in Dublin.

Shame on you.'

Not only are we beggers - we're Nazis!Ahem - being a new member, you'll not be familiar with the events that day being discussed on - err - here!Whatdaf*ck has that got to do with Gibson?

The National flag of the United Kingdom Of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Union Flag, does not fly in any official capacity at Northern Ireland games held at Windsor Park.
Do you know when this practice stopped?

Interestingly, the flying of the Union Flag at Windsor Park, by Linfield Football Club, does not seem to have deterred the increasingly numerous amount of players from a nationalist background playing (at all age levels) for that particular club.And there was me thiniking it had more to do with the club itself distancing itself from the sectarian employment pracitces it used up until the late eighties?

We were sidetracked into discussing Celtic players playing for Northern Ireland.Unless you want to be banned, we use the code word Luton here for that Scottish club on this site.

Sounds like Wells is making it up if only because imo it has all the hallmarks of populist bleating. The FAI have kept a low public profile as is right and proper and is more in keeping with Darren's intrests

It is remotely possible that someone in FIFA wanted to know for the umteenth time that Irish nationality does not entitle you to play for any UK or other team, that Darron is a dual national therefore the annex criteria doesn't apply.Yeah the legal department are thinking, 'how many times have we got to tell these w*nkers'.

...If nothing else, that kinda tears the arse out of the notion that all NI Nationalists hold to the Darron Gibson "it's the Republic or nothing" stance..."I always thought it was a political decision. Does that now mean than Kane is no longer a bigot?

[danonion]

When did Alan Kernaghan play for "Ireland", and who are "The North" that Chris Baird plays for?

Alan Kernaghan played for the Republic Of Ireland.

Chris Baird plays for Northern Ireland.

Stupid post, nothing else to comment.

[fhtb]

It wouldn't come as a surprise to the family of Neil Lennon.

And there was me thiniking it had more to do with the club itself distancing itself from the sectarian employment pracitces it used up until the late eighties?


Going a bit 'off topic here, EG?
Interesting that you pull others for going off topic while continuing to introduce cases of sporadic or historic Northern sectarianism. I guess Gibson wouldn't have been troubled by the anti-semitic events seeing as he's not Jewish :rolleyes:

btw regarding your LFC point, does that not tell you that prospective RC Linfield pool of players had no issue with playing under the UK flag?


'how many times have we got to tell these w*nkers'.You're right, that's probably exactly the way FIFA think...

[RogerMilla]

When did Alan Kernaghan play for "Ireland", and who are "The North" that Chris Baird plays for?

Alan Kernaghan played for the Republic Of Ireland.

Chris Baird plays for Northern Ireland.

Ireland is the name of our state under our constitution and also under all the European treaties we have signed. What Uefa choose to call us is their business. Robbie Keane is the captain of the Irish team and he plays for Ireland , end of.

[RogerMilla]

So what you're saying is that is that after apparently having been told by Givens that he's not good enough for the ROI U-21's at present, he may be considering reverting to play for NI.

If nothing else, that kinda tears the arse out of the notion that all NI Nationalists hold to the Darron Gibson "it's the Republic or nothing" stance.

Unless, of course, Kane's just keeping his hand in with NI whilst he persuades Givens to reconsider, in which case, he'd better be quick, seeing as it was his 20th Birthday yesterday.

Either way, it's lucky for Kane (and the rest of us) that there are really "two teams in Ireland..."

I have to say the guy is being very expediant about this and it's a poor show but i presume it's the same choice any dual nationality fella has , look at kanoute who declared for mali to play in the african nations cup.

I have to say one more thing , it's a pity that football and politics are so entangled in this eligibility thing but a nationalist ( or indeed anyone) from Northern Ireland must always be entitled to play for the Irish team or for the Republic if thats what you lads choose to call it. A United Ireland will most likely never come about and let's face it what with further european integration it could become almost irrelevant anyway but the aspiration to it is important to lots of people north and south and east and west of the border.

[fhtb]

the aspiration to it is important to lots of people north and south and east and west of the border.
That probably goes to the heart of the political side of this issue. Political aspirations should not be confused with political realities.


Ireland is the name of our state under our constitution and also under all the European treaties we have signed. What Uefa choose to call us is their business. Robbie Keane is the captain of the Irish team and he plays for Ireland , end of.
What Uefa choose to call a representative side is binding I would have thought. Robbie Keane is the captain of an Irish team and he plays of the Republic of Ireland. It's my belief that the political aspirations of the 26 counties do not feature heavily in UEFA/FIFA thought process.

The only team called 'Ireland' to have existed was headquartered in Belfast up until the 1950s I think. That changed when either FIFA/UEFA told them to do so. I think something similar may have happened to the Republic.

[gspain]

Sounds like Wells is making it up if only because imo it has all the hallmarks of populist bleating. The FAI have kept a low public profile as is right and proper and is more in keeping with Darren's intrests

It is remotely possible that someone in FIFA wanted to know for the umteenth time that Irish nationality does not entitle you to play for any UK or other team, that Darron is a dual national therefore the annex criteria doesn't apply.

If DG is a dual national then the annex does apply. If he is an Irish national only then the annex does not apply.

Dermot Ahern intervened with FIFA to ensure an Irish passport is allowed for those who wish to play for NI but did not want to obtain a British passport. Dundalk's 2nd most famous supporter (after Maxi) may have caused us some problems here.

[EalingGreen]

Players will always look after their own interests first, nothing wrong or unusual in that idea..

If nothing else, that kinda tears the arse out of the notion that all NI Nationalists hold to the Darron Gibson "it's the Republic or nothing" stance.

Not sure what you are on about, players from differing backgrounds in the North have always made their own career choices, be it Linfield supporter Alan Kernaghan representing Ireland or former hurler Chris Baird playing for the North.

The important word is choice

If only some could accept this simple concept.

FIFA do.

Actually, unless a player can demonstrate that he is eligible to represent more than one Association, it is most decidedly NOT a matter of choice which country you represent at international level. Otherwise, a whole lot of international players would have chosen different countries from that which they did actually represent, for a whole host of reasons.

Now it may turn out that DG is eligible to represent the ROI as well as NI, in which case his choice is obvious. But if FIFA determine that he may not represent ROI, then his "choice" will be NI - take it or leave it.

In which case he will be the "reverse" of Alan Kernaghan, who had no choice in which team he represented - he always wanted to play for NI, but didn't comply with the IFA's requirements at the time. However, for all that he was a Linfield supporter, from a Unionist background etc, Kernaghan was not so dogmatic as to say "It's NI or nothing" and was happy to play for ROI.

Which means he is either a "turncoat", or someone who didn't allow himself to be confined by narrow political prejudices. Personally I'm sure it was the latter, for which I admire him.

[geysir]

If DG is a dual national then the annex does apply. If he is an Irish national only then the annex does not apply.

Irish citizenship in itself does not qualify for other countries. So the UK passport scenario does not apply. Darron does not qualify for NI because of his Irish citizenship, he qualifies for NI because of his place of birth. The fact that NI has dual nationals inside the federations territory does not mean that an Irish citizen can play for NI.
Annex
"ELIGIBILITY TO PLAY FOR ASSOCIATION TEAMS FOR PLAYERS WHOSE
NATIONALITY ENTITLES THEM TO REPRESENT MORE THAN ONE ASSOCIATION"

Therefore the article 15.3 applies, Darron is a dual national.
"If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if the Player is eligible to play for several Association teams due to his nationality, the following exceptions apply:

It's simple really :)

The understanding comes better after examining how the statutes are applied by FIFA.

[EalingGreen]

Here we go again.:rolleyes:

NB people use the terms north or south often as shorthand. Just a turn of phrase.

Plus generally people call the football team in the "south" Ireland and will undoubtably continue to do so. Not out of badness but just because that's what people have called them for donkey's years.

Now call yourselves whatever you want but please don't start lecturing us on what we call ourselves.

And even if someone describes you as "the north" it's surely preferable to being called beggars?

I use the shorthand "NI" or "ROI", because it's, er, the shortest. And "Northern Ireland" and "Republic of Ireland" are also the official team names, as determined by FIFA, the governing body in such matters, over 50 years ago. Which is why the IFA and FAI themselves use those terms e.g. on their website and in their programme etc.

And as for fans using the term "Ireland" in everyday use, of course that will happen and there's nothing sinister about it. However, of the two Irish teams, the IFA unquestionably has the prior "right" to do so, since we were the original "Irish Football Association". Which is why FIFA permitted the IFA to continue to use the designation "Ireland" for British Championship matches, a situation which pertained until the IFA dropped it voluntarily (around 1970?). Which is why, btw, I recall chants of "C'mon Ireland" etc at Windsor even after that date.

"And if - you know - your History..." ;)

[paul_oshea]

Personally I'm sure it was the latter, for which I admire him.

Can we rely on you now then to wear the green of Ireland ( not owc) now that you aren't good enough for NI then?

[EalingGreen]

I have to say the guy [Tony Kane] is being very expediant about this and it's a poor show but i presume it's the same choice any dual nationality fella has , look at kanoute who declared for mali to play in the african nations cup.

I have to say one more thing , it's a pity that football and politics are so entangled in this eligibility thing but a nationalist ( or indeed anyone) from Northern Ireland must always be entitled to play for the Irish team or for the Republic if thats what you lads choose to call it. A United Ireland will most likely never come about and let's face it what with further european integration it could become almost irrelevant anyway but the aspiration to it is important to lots of people north and south and east and west of the border.

I have heard that Kane was happy enough to play for NI until the IFA screwed up in registering him for a tournament, meaning he couldn't play. And this (along with possible personal differences with the U-21 manager?) was why he was susceptible to the FAI's offer.

Which would explain why, when no longer in Don Givens's plans, he may be prepared to let bygones be bygones with the IFA and return "home". Of course, there may well be a degree of expediency in all this on his part; however, it also demonstrates that he is clearly not preoccupied or confined by political/non-footballing issues in the same way as e.g. Darron "It's the Republic or nothing" Gibson.

And as someone who prefers to keep politics out of football wherever possible, I know which of the two attitudes I prefer! :cool:

[lopez]

Interesting that you pull others for going off topic while continuing to introduce cases of sporadic or historic Northern sectarianism. I guess Gibson wouldn't have been troubled by the anti-semitic events seeing as he's not Jewish :rolleyes:
Sorry, but could you tell me once again what some nazi salutes by a group of skangers in the street has to do with Darren Gibson?


btw regarding your LFC point, does that not tell you that prospective RC Linfield pool of players had no issue with playing under the UK flag?And your point? Millions of Irish emigrated to Britain to work 'under the UK flag.' Thousands of Unionists from the O6C have studied at Dublin University 'under the Irish flag'. I was born 'under the UK flag' but it doesn't make me British. You were born 'under the Irish flag' but you'd rather have what I have declined: British citizenship. (How is the OWC campaign to get the Donegal NI supporters British passports going?)

Does it stop either of us functioning? It seems to me that these players can't win in your (and Not Brazil's) eyes. Play for Linfield and they are British. Don't play for them, and they're bigots.

[lopez]

...And as someone who prefers to keep politics out of football wherever possible, I know which of the two attitudes I prefer! :cool:So tell me, what was your post of complaint following Marty's decision to put up a 'We support our Boys' banner on ourweeminds?

[livehead1]

however, it also demonstrates that he is clearly not preoccupied or confined by political/non-footballing issues in the same way as e.g. Darron "It's the Republic or nothing" Gibson.

And as someone who prefers to keep politics out of football wherever possible, I know which of the two attitudes I prefer! :cool:
So tell us o fountain of knowledge what are Gibson's political/non-footballing issues why he won't play for you lot? you would love to put it down to that now.

Maybe he wants to play for a side that has good footballers, great up and coming talent and might actually qualify for a major competition. In fact, Gibson might remember the days of the 1994 world cup or 2002 world cups, he'll hardly remember Northern Ireland last qualifying for a major tournament as he wasn't even born!!:D:D

[Not Brazil]

Does it stop either of us functioning? It seems to me that these players can't win in your (and Not Brazil's) eyes. Play for Linfield and they are British. Don't play for them, and they're bigots.

I think you miss the point.

You cited the flying of the Union Flag as a reason why nationalists would not wish to play for Northern Ireland.

I stated that it doesn't seem to be a factor for the many nationalists playing for Linfield.

I don't really care what a Linfield player thinks of flags - I'm more concerned about his desire to win football matches for Linfield.

No player has stated that they wont sign for Linfield because the Union Flag flys at Windsor Park - they sign for Linfield to enhance their footballing careers. Pretty simple really.

Similarly, the flag and anthem issue does not seem to deter Northern unionists from playing for the Ireland rugby team.

Therefore, your citing of the Union Flag at Windsor (which does not fly at Northern Ireland games) as a reason why nationalists may not wish to play for Northern Ireland is rather spurious.

[eelmonster]

However, of the two Irish teams, the IFA unquestionably has the prior "right" to do so, since we were the original "Irish Football Association". Which is why FIFA permitted the IFA to continue to use the designation "Ireland" for British Championship matches, a situation which pertained until the IFA dropped it voluntarily (around 1970?). Which is why, btw, I recall chants of "C'mon Ireland" etc at Windsor even after that date.

"And if - you know - your History..." ;)


The original IFA represented the island of Ireland, not 6 counties in the north east of the country (as it was then ;)) and certainly didn't fly a defunct sectarian flag.

[EalingGreen]

Can we rely on you now then to wear the green of Ireland ( not owc) now that you aren't good enough for NI then?

Is this addressed to me? :confused:

If it is, my attitude is clear. Were I a footballer and good enough, my choice would always be to represent NI.

However, if that were not open to me, I was offered the opportunity by the FAI to represent ROI, and I was eligible under FIFA's rules, then of course I would consider it - just like Kernaghan.

That is because like him, I do not consider that my "choice" (or lack of it) of international football team should determine, or be determined by, my personal political convictions. As such, I take my lead in this from any number of my sporting heroes (e.g. Jennings, O'Neill, Armstrong, Hughes etc) who were always proud to represent their country at football, irrespective of any disdain which this might have generated amongst certain political elements in their background.

In fact, my chief reservation about representing ROI would be that I might be taking the place of some other player who was actually born in the Republic and who desperately wanted it more than me.

Still (to get us right back on topic) if Darron Gibson can opt for ROI in the absence of any recent ancestry from the Republic at all, maybe it shouldn't bother me, as someone who has two grandparents who were born and bred in what is now the Republic! ;)

[lopez]

I think you miss the point.

You cited the flying of the Union Flag as a reason why nationalists would not wish to play for Northern Ireland.

I stated that it doesn't seem to be a factor for the many nationalists playing for Linfield.I'm not sure if you have noticed the difference, but Linfield are a club who can pick and choose who they employ from a myriad of nationalities. Northern Ireland is, at least for the purposes of FIFA, a 'national team'. I don't mind going to work in Britain under a UJ, but that doesn't mean I am British. For Northern nationalists - your neighbours, perhaps you should try talking to them - the UJ is not the flag of their country. That's one of the many reasons so many support Ireland, and that Gibson wants to play for what he sees as his country.