NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

[paul_oshea]

from mayo , want norn iron to lose every game they play!! i appreciate their stance on this though , it has to be gutting to lose players who have played for them at lower levels, lads from the north who want to play for us must be allowed to do so in my opinion but no chopping and changing , its a pure mockery then. it will be best when it's all finally cleared up. until then are there any good up and comers up there who we could get to defect ?? ;-)

I wonder would they rule that any player that has come through NI ranks cannot change allegiance to Ireland, as they are being poached?

[galwayhoop]

I wonder would they rule that any player that has come through NI ranks cannot change allegiance to Ireland, as they are being poached?

despite NI 'spin' it isn't to do with poaching. players play schoolboy football football in the juristriction they grow up in. a young lad also wanting to play professional football will play for any underage set-up to push himself on. that is why the 'alligence' rules were changed meaning a player doesn't get tied to a certain country until he makes a senior cap.

this nonsence about the IFA developing players and then the big bad FAI coming in poaching the players is tripe too. the major develoment is done by a players club, be it a home club or a professional out-fit in britain. national associations have little imput to players development outside of putting them into the spotlight.

just like the young nigerian who plays with Bray (omeike??) and u19 for ireland. it is very unlikely that he will travel to nigeria to play an u19 game but if he is good enough he may wish to play senior international football with them and good look to him if he does. if he feels more nigerian than irish then i doubt we will tell him he is not allowed play for them. i know it is slightly different in that he was born in nigeria (i think) but the sentiment is the same, if someone is told by the GFA that they are irish then they should be allowed to represent the RoI if this is the team they associate themselves with.

[galwayhoop]

Roy Keane. Robbie Keane. George Best.

both robbie and roy had made senior international appearances prior to reaching their peak marketability - which was never that big outside ireland. george best was a totally different era.

and what major sports brand had robbie and roy behind them while they were a young hot-shot??? did either have money to burn as young hotshots??

i'm saying no irish player would have the full package mentioned in the earlier post without being an international player. english players are more likely to have the money and sponsorship deals, but again only after they are capped.

[Absinthe]

You can assure me?? I don’t need your assurance man. You are basically trying to tell me that there are only a few thousand nationalists in the North which is complete
Garbage…. The fact is that if the North played the South tomorrow close to half of the population of the North would support the ROI. Do you agree? If not you need to examine the reality just a little bit more.


I reckon it would between 1/4 and 1/3 tbh. Our team has always contained a good proportion of Nationalists, but by your warped logic, that could never happen, because all Nationalists think that Northern Ireland shouldnt exist.

You also need to remember that :-
a) Not everybody plays or wants to play football
b) This isnt going to affect anyone under 15 or over 35.
c) Even less people have the required ability.



A big part of supporting ur country is dreaming about if you were good enough you could play ur part or if any of ur kids or familiy or friends were good enough they could play their part. That’s normal and we should not be denied this.
I agree, but, you are not being stopped from playing for your country. Your beliefs/aspirations may prevent you from playing, but you are not being stopped by anyone else from playing for your country.



This isnt about a dislike for the the apposing community… (not for me anyway). This is about me, and my right to support my flag. Now I know that this ruling will not effect my ability to support the ROI, but this ruling is just plain wrong.

I disagree, mainly on the basis, that I already think it to too easy to play for a country outside your birth, e.g. Olisadebe and any number of Brazilians, and any rule that is implemented for Northern Nationalists will make it easier for everyone. I would also hope (long term) that if Nationalists can only represent Northern Ireland, that more would come to the matches and enjoy supporting OWC. I realise that this isnt going to happen in a lot of cases (or indeed overnight), but I love the fact that our team is made up of members of both communities, as it indeed should be. Anything that threatens this in any way is a bad thing.

[lionelhutz]

Who cares about Darren Gibson - he's a reserve at United and by the looks of it won't be getting anywhere near the first team - for a non mickey mouse cup match - anytime soon.

Doubt he'd even get on with NI either

This should be one country but its not and never will be so get over it lads

[galwayhoop]

You also need to remember that :-
a) Not everybody plays or wants to play football
b) This isnt going to affect anyone under 15 or over 35.
c) Even less people have the required ability.


unless the unionist community are all good ball players between the ages of 15 and 35 then i assume the percentages are still the same ;) close on 50-50 Nationalist/unionist.

i would be interested to see a break down of the demographics in the north as i'm sure there are more people from a nationalist background in the demographic you mentioned!!!

[Absinthe]

I wonder would they rule that any player that has come through NI ranks cannot change allegiance to Ireland, as they are being poached?

They wont do that, and I wouldnt want them to. This is purely about eligibility, not that they played for us.

Again, why should you be allowed to pick anyone from outside your national boundries?

Im not trying to make this political, but whether you agree with it or not, or recognise it or not,there are two countries on the island of Ireland. That is a fact.

[eirebhoy]

Again, why should you be allowed to pick anyone from outside your national boundries?
You can pick players outside of your national boundries.

[galwayhoop]

Who cares about Darren Gibson - he's a reserve at United and by the looks of it won't be getting anywhere near the first team - for a non mickey mouse cup match - anytime soon.

it has damn all to do with Gibson as such. it appears he will continue to be eligible for the RoI anyway, the main issue is going on from here regarding eligibility of players born in the 6c.


Doubt he'd even get on with NI either

don't know about that! he is currently on loan at wolves. he would only have to be as good as their current crop of midfielders which includes superstars form the likes of:
Hull City
Barnsley
Notts Forest
Bristol City and
Luton Town

[OneRedArmy]

Who cares about Darren Gibson - he's a reserve at United and by the looks of it won't be getting anywhere near the first team - for a non mickey mouse cup match - anytime soon.

Doubt he'd even get on with NI either

This should be one country but its not and never will be so get over it ladsWhoosh.....

[geysir]

Because it is unfair on every other country signed up to FIFA, that you can select players outside of your national boundries, who dont meet one of the additional 5 criteria. i.e. residence or grandparents.
As you may know the Annex criteria does not apply to all situations.

The question that FIFA has to answer once and for all is has their mind changed since Oct 2006 when FIFA legal head wrote that NI born Irish citizens can declare for the Republic.

"unfair"
I hear that word a lot in my house.
In choosing whether its unfair to the Federation over unfair to the player, FIFA usually support the player's rights.

[northerncelt]

I agree, but, you are not being stopped from playing for your country. Your beliefs/aspirations may prevent you from playing, but you are not being stopped by anyone else from playing for your country.





This is the ignorant attitide that annoys me the most. U are not gettting the point man. Northern Ireland is not my country. Get over it. It will never be my country.... U are failing to respect my birthright. Im not telling u who u should support, why do u think u can tell me!!

U need an education lesson in what a nationalist is. It may seem an Abrupt/rude way of putting it, but i do not think the "Northern ireland" should exist. Just like you think a "united Ireland" should not exist. its not a warped opinion... its reality!!!

[Ash]

Who's to say these potential players haven't lived in the south? Will FIFA be looking for telephone and rates bills to prove residency.

Better still, they could just look for their XtraVision card.
You have to produce a mountain of ID and address proof to get one of those!!!

[Maroon 7]

This is the ignorant attitide that annoys me the most. U are not gettting the point man. Northern Ireland is not my country. Get over it. It will never be my country.... U are failing to respect my birthright. Im not telling u who u should support, why do u think u can tell me!!

U need an education lesson in what a nationalist is. It may seem an Abrupt/rude way of putting it, but i do not think the "Northern ireland" should exist. Just like you think a "united Ireland" should not exist. its not a warped opinion... its reality!!!

Absinthe does seem to have a problem comprehending this.

As for nationalists playing for NI I'm all for it. However they should be given the choice to play for NI or the ROI. Of course many of them play and have played for NI in the past as a young footballer is not going to turn down international recognition and all the potential rewards and exposure it brings to his career.

[Absinthe]

This is the ignorant attitide that annoys me the most. U are not gettting the point man. Northern Ireland is not my country. Get over it. It will never be my country.... U are failing to respect my birthright. Im not telling u who u should support, why do u think u can tell me!!

U need an education lesson in what a nationalist is. It may seem an Abrupt/rude way of putting it, but i do not think the "Northern ireland" should exist. Just like you think a "united Ireland" should not exist. its not a warped opinion... its reality!!!

I should have said 'Country of Birth'. Apologies for that.

And, I havent told you or anyone else who they should support, at any point. That is (obviously) entirely your own decision.

And I have never stated that a United Ireland should not exist. How presumptuous of you. Following the Northern Irish football team, does not mean that I am against a United Ireland.

Singing GSTQ doesnt make me a Monarchist either.


ps. The Warped opinion that I perceive you to have, is that if someone is a Nationalist they would never play for Northern Ireland. That is blatently incorrect, due to the number of 'Nationalists'* that I assume have played for NI.

*I have never asked any of them, as I dont care what their Political beliefs are.

[Absinthe]

Well Gibson won't be playing for you again anyway. I hope he goes on to have an amazing career in Green and at OT.

While I think you are indeed correct, bear in mind that FIFA havent actually announced anything yet. The only information carried by the press was supposedly released by the FAI's Delegation to them. I would find it very strange if FIFA made any decisions at that meeting. It is more likely that the FAI Delegation only presented their thoughts on the issue.

Howard Wells is expecting the decision to be made before the end of the month.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/7060057.stm

[SuperDave]

It's bad news really if you ignore the spin.

DG was always going to be OK. He declared in 2003 before the rule change. To apply rules retrospectively would open a huge can of worms and rule many players ineligible for their national teams. NI would lose Maik Taylor for example.

It does appear we've lost the case. FIFA haven't made an announcement yet but that is the clear interpretation.

The FAI can appeal. Whether they will or not is another matter. They probably have other things on their mind at the moment.

What of players whose grandparents were born before partition? They may have a case. On the same note, how the hell is freddy adu eligible to play for the USA? The regulations were changed in response to Qatar trying to buy brazilians (literally giving them passports and cash to play for the nation), but equally apply to the likes of adu, whose mother was a green card lottery winning immigrant.

[Ireland4ever]

This is getting boring lads, just going ropund in circles.

[Absinthe]

What of players whose grandparents were born before partition? They may have a case.


They are 100% eligible. No question about it.



On the same note, how the hell is freddy adu eligible to play for the USA? The regulations were changed in response to Qatar trying to buy brazilians (literally giving them passports and cash to play for the nation), but equally apply to the likes of adu, whose mother was a green card lottery winning immigrant.

I presume that he has an American Passport. On top of that, all he needs is to be living in the country for over 2 years to be eligible.

By the same rules, a Northern Nationalist can make himself eligible by living in the Republic for 2 years.

[SuperDave]

I agree, but, you are not being stopped from playing for your country. Your beliefs/aspirations may prevent you from playing, but you are not being stopped by anyone else from playing for your country.

The problem is certain people don't see northern ireland as their country, but rather see the republic as their country and are, in fact, being denied the opportunity to play for them.

For my two cents, i think it's clear that the irish and english constitutions, written and unwritten, guarantee dual nationality for everyone born in northern ireland. The problem is that the FAI don't represent the island of Ireland, regardless of how much some people wish they did ,they represent the 26 counties. Just like the situation in the UK and Ryan Giggs. Contrary to popular belief, he could never have played for England, despite holding a British passport, as the situation is governed by birth and all his parents and grandparents were born in wales. Holding a passport for Ireland, due to the unique situtation here, does not, unless you have 26-county ancestry, guarantee you a right to play for Ireland.

The Yugoslavia situation shows the same thing, in that player eligibility was similarly limited. I know you are going to throw Kanchelskis at me, but he had some Russian ancestry as well, not just Ukrainian.

[backstothewall]

Good for you.

Whilst you continue to demonise and vilify the National Flag of the majority population in Northern Ireland (presumably the very people you wish to "unite" with) you'll be waiting a very long time for a, so called, "all Ireland" side.

Not being funny - think about it!;)

Thing is though, it isn't a national flag. It was the flag of a parliament which is now defunct, and has no more legal or national standing than the flag of the Confederacy. Northern Ireland has no flag.

That is not to say it shouldn't have one, it really does need one, but that one isn't acceptable as it represents that government and its action/inactions that we don't need to go into, but we all know about.

If the IFA were serious about change, they would design a new flag, or get to folks on the hill to agree to one, and start playing Danny Boy (which according to the commonwealth games people is Northern Ireland's anthem).

And I also accept the point that the rugby boys need to do exactly the same for their all ireland side, as your folks will never accept the tri-colour as (in your eyes) it represents 35 years of mayhem and murder.

I would actully like to give the north a cheer, (i want to cheer any team of Irishmen) but the flags and songs mean i can't, as i find them offensive. Would the Southern states really expect black people to support them if they were playing Dixie and flying the battle flag of the Confederacy?

[livehead1]

I would actully like to give the north a cheer, (i want to cheer any team of Irishmen) but the flags and songs mean i can't, as i find them offensive.


You shall set he who shall not be named off on one here!!!

[Absinthe]

The problem is certain people don't see northern ireland as their country, but rather see the republic as their country and are, in fact, being denied the opportunity to play for them.


I understand that perfectly. The problem is Northern Nationalists have no ties to the Republic bar their passports. From a FIFA perspective this is generally not enough. The arguement with FIFA is based around Dual Citizenship.

Can someone born in Northern Ireland be Irish and only Irish. This is the whole crux of the decision, if current FIFA rules remain unamended. If the answer is yes, then they are eligible. If the answer is no, then they arent, unless they meet either the grandparent or residency rule.



For my two cents, i think it's clear that the irish and english constitutions, written and unwritten, guarantee dual nationality for everyone born in northern ireland. The problem is that the FAI don't represent the island of Ireland, regardless of how much some people wish they did ,they represent the 26 counties. Just like the situation in the UK and Ryan Giggs. Contrary to popular belief, he could never have played for England, despite holding a British passport, as the situation is governed by birth and all his parents and grandparents were born in wales. Holding a passport for Ireland, due to the unique situtation here, does not, unless you have 26-county ancestry, guarantee you a right to play for Ireland.

The Yugoslavia situation shows the same thing, in that player eligibility was similarly limited. I know you are going to throw Kanchelskis at me, but he had some Russian ancestry as well, not just Ukrainian.

Ironically, he would now be eligable now, as he has a valid passport/citizenship, and has lived in England for more than 2 years. Which was one of my other points, everytime the rules are changed, more people will exploit them to play for other countries. While I dont doubt that many 'Northern Nationalists' have a genuine and complete desire to play for the Republic, I refuse to believe that the likes of Olisadebe do. Whatever the rules are, they wont suit everybody.

[gustavo]

You shall set he who shall not be named off on one here!!!

Why would that set anyone off , I dont think many Unionists would deny the fact they are Irish just that they also would be British along with it

[Drumcondra 69er]

I have absolutely no desire to see an all UK team whatsoever.

I have no doubt that the good people of England, Wales and Scotland feel exactly the same.

Perfectly happy with things just staying the way they are - and whoever pulls on the shirt, and gives it 100%, will have my total support.


That maybe but neither yourself or Absinthe has answered the point I made pages back rules that rules are already being bent by allowing NI (or England, Scotland and Wales) to compete as sepearte countries whenh they should in fact be represented by one United Kingdom team (Montenegro wasn't allowed a seperate team until it's independence for example). FIFA are haapy enough to have exceptions in certain cases, if an exception was made here there's no reason why it would have to apply worldwide.

[gspain]

That maybe but neither yourself or Absinthe has answered the point I made pages back rules that rules are already being bent by allowing NI (or England, Scotland and Wales) to compete as sepearte countries whenh they should in fact be represented by one United Kingdom team (Montenegro wasn't allowed a seperate team until it's independence for example). FIFA are haapy enough to have exceptions in certain cases, if an exception was made here there's no reason why it would have to apply worldwide.


The home nations bailed out FIFA in the late 40's when they were bankrupt. special match played at Hampden, Jackie Carey was captain of the Rest of europe team. FIFA got the gate money. they enshrined in their constitution that the home nations have rights to separate teams. They also gave them 1 vice president of FIFA.

This is an exception. In theory it could be overturned by a vote of FIFA however there is no stomach anywhere to do this.

While you have a valid example of a FIFA exception there is still no reason as to why they should make an exception in this case. In reality we need to argue under the current FIFA rules or else get them changed. I stil think there is a valid argument under the current rules however that appears to have been lost.

The reality is that relations between the 2 associations on this island are now very bad. The FAI have been to FIFA and most likely lost. Appreciate there is no official decision but that is the word on the street. I expect the next step will be to mend fences etc.

The only way I can see this being challenged is by a player (aka Bosman) challenging it probably with political support.

[Absinthe]

That maybe but neither yourself or Absinthe has answered the point I made pages back rules that rules are already being bent by allowing NI (or England, Scotland and Wales) to compete as sepearte countries whenh they should in fact be represented by one United Kingdom team (Montenegro wasn't allowed a seperate team until it's independence for example). FIFA are haapy enough to have exceptions in certain cases, if an exception was made here there's no reason why it would have to apply worldwide.

Apologies. I didnt think it was a serious question. GSpain has now answered it.

I would want UK team less than a United Ireland team.

Also I found out today that Fifa has more members than the UN.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Apologies. I didnt think it was a serious question. GSpain has now answered it.

I would want UK team less than a United Ireland team.

Also I found out today that Fifa has more members than the UN.

No need to apologise but it was a serious question. I was aware of the historical reasons behind the 4 uk associations being allowed compete, the original point I made was in response to you saying "I dont see why you think Northern Irish Nationalists should have their own rule different from everyone else."

My resposne (if it wasn't clear) was saying that the 4 UK teams already have a rule that's different from anyone else so there are always exceptions.

I was being slightly facetious but would have been interested in your opinion on why you think it's okay for the 4 parts of the UK to have their own rules yet not think it's okay for Northern Nationalsits and be prepared to concede there's an arguement for an exceptional rule to be passed in this instance that wouldn't impact on all FIFA members.

[Metrostars]

What of players whose grandparents were born before partition? They may have a case. On the same note, how the hell is freddy adu eligible to play for the USA? The regulations were changed in response to Qatar trying to buy brazilians (literally giving them passports and cash to play for the nation), but equally apply to the likes of adu, whose mother was a green card lottery winning immigrant.

Adu was 7 when he emigrated with his family to the US, became a citizen at 13 I think. But the likes of Adu, Olisadebe, Deco have actually lived in their new countries for a few years. Has Darron Gibson ever lived in the Republic of Ireland (26 counties)? I understand FIFA's and IFA's position, but don't neccessarily agree with it.

[jmurphyc]

If they seriously make the decision that they reportedly made a few days ago I'm going to e-mail/write to the FAI and Dermot Ahern. There's no way that FIFA can rule that way and stop IRISH people not being allowed to play for the Republic.

[Not Brazil]

Thing is though, it isn't a national flag. It was the flag of a parliament which is now defunct, and has no more legal or national standing than the flag of the Confederacy. Northern Ireland has no flag.

That is not to say it shouldn't have one, it really does need one, but that one isn't acceptable as it represents that government and its action/inactions that we don't need to go into, but we all know about.

If the IFA were serious about change, they would design a new flag, or get to folks on the hill to agree to one, and start playing Danny Boy (which according to the commonwealth games people is Northern Ireland's anthem).



I think we may be talking at cross purposes, to an extent, backtowalsall.

Are you talking about the Union Flag, or the Northern Ireland flag (Ulster Banner)?

The "official" flag of Northern Ireland is the Union Flag - it is not flown at Northern Ireland games.

I've set out my stance on flags - St Patrick's Cross seems perfectly logical to me.

On anthem - the sooner we have a uniquely Northern Irish "sporting" anthem the better IMO.

I would not be surprised to see movement on this issue in the near future - whilst it may be an unpopular decision amongst some who feel their "Britishness" is being somehow weakened, it's a decision that the IFA know has to be made sometime.

[geysir]

The difference with the 4 UK federations is that in 1993 they signed an agreement and lodged it with FIFA, and it is written in to the Annex 2 rules as an addendum. The 4 UK federations do not have a gentlemans agreement they have a legal document referring to parentage as a criteria.

There is no exception needed here for Ireland. All the rules are already in place.
There are rules for eligibility, rules for dual nationals, rules for acquiring the nationality of the federation you want to play for.

All that is needed is to finally decide which rules apply to our situation.

So far FIFA have been satisfied by being born on the Island entitles you for Irish citizenship followed by the right to play for Ireland. All that fits under article 15. That is what FIFA legal head wrote last October

The NI cants want FIFA to apply the Annex conditions.

[backstothewall]

Was refering to the red and white "Northern Ireland flag"

The st. Patircks cross, even if you put the 6 pointed star and red hand in the middle, would be a lot better. It would look a lot like the Florida state flag. Ian and Martin might even be able to wangle a free week in Disneyland out of it!

[cheifo]

Slightly off topic but I hope none of this affects the Setanta Cup which we all need to continue to develop.

[Absinthe]

No need to apologise but it was a serious question. I was aware of the historical reasons behind the 4 uk associations being allowed compete, the original point I made was in response to you saying "I dont see why you think Northern Irish Nationalists should have their own rule different from everyone else."

My resposne (if it wasn't clear) was saying that the 4 UK teams already have a rule that's different from anyone else so there are always exceptions.

I was being slightly facetious but would have been interested in your opinion on why you think it's okay for the 4 parts of the UK to have their own rules yet not think it's okay for Northern Nationalsits and be prepared to concede there's an arguement for an exceptional rule to be passed in this instance that wouldn't impact on all FIFA members.

Its 4 different countries, thats why. Relatively easy to legislate. The same thing applies to Hong Kong now being part of China for example, but still having their own national team.

How do you write a law for someone who 'feels' like they belong to another country different from their birth country? And dont meet any of the other 5 criteria, that would make them eligible.

I actually believe the rules should be tightened. For example:

This will make you laugh, but using Gibson as an example. If you hadnt capped him, and FIFA told him he was ineligable for the RoI. He would actually be eligible for England, because, he has a British Passport/Citizenship, and im pretty sure he will have lived in England for over 2 years.
(I dont know if his loan move to Antwerp scuppers this or not, but I think you can see the point im trying to make).

If you look at all the academies of the 4 Big clubs, Arsenal, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, the number of foriegners is staggering. All of these players under current rules, could become England internationals, providing they can:
a) Secure a passport,
b) Live there for 2 years.

Its a farce.

IMO, any rule changes to suit 'Northern Nationalists' will make this even easier. You have to remember that FIFA will absolutely not make a rule specific to Ireland. Any rules created will be applicable to all member nations.

[CollegeTillIDie]

The so called United Kingdom actually now provides Passports peculiar to Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland which are different to those issued to English people.

[Absinthe]

The so called United Kingdom actually now provides Passports peculiar to Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland which are different to those issued to English people.

Im not sure thats right (although my passport is about 8 years old at present). Do you have a source?

[Lionel Ritchie]

I actually believe the rules should be tightened. For example:

This will make you laugh, but using Gibson as an example. If you hadnt capped him, and FIFA told him he was ineligable for the RoI. He would actually be eligible for England, because, he has a British Passport/Citizenship, and im pretty sure he will have lived in England for over 2 years.
(I dont know if his loan move to Antwerp scuppers this or not, but I think you can see the point im trying to make).

If you look at all the academies of the 4 Big clubs, Arsenal, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, the number of foriegners is staggering. All of these players under current rules, could become England internationals, providing they can:
a) Secure a passport,
b) Live there for 2 years.

Its a farce.. I see your point Absinthe but I'm not sure that's how it'd pan out. Of course you never have an answer until a test case is brought. BUT in a hypothetical situation where England offered a cap to an Irish lad of Gibsons age on the basis that he was resident in the English FAs jurisdiction for over two years -an appealant (either Irish FA or an opponent of Englands) may cite as best practice a ruling made against an English Rugby player (name avoids me) who attempted to play for Scotland on the basis he went to boarding school there.

In that case he was ruled inelligable as, regardless of where he slept at night and was normally resident for most of the previous five years, his legal address up until the day of his 18th birthday was his parents home back in England.

[Absinthe]

The difference with the 4 UK federations is that in 1993 they signed an agreement and lodged it with FIFA, and it is written in to the Annex 2 rules as an addendum. The 4 UK federations do not have a gentlemans agreement they have a legal document referring to parentage as a criteria.

There is no exception needed here for Ireland. All the rules are already in place.
There are rules for eligibility, rules for dual nationals, rules for acquiring the nationality of the federation you want to play for.

All that is needed is to finally decide which rules apply to our situation.

So far FIFA have been satisfied by being born on the Island entitles you for Irish citizenship followed by the right to play for Ireland. All that fits under article 15. That is what FIFA legal head wrote last October

The NI cants want FIFA to apply the Annex conditions.

With the current rules, 'Northern Nationalists' are eligible for the Republic of Ireland if they are ruled to be an Irish Citizen, and only an Irish Citizen at birth. This is where the GFA bit can comes into play a bit. It basically enshrines a persons right to consider themselves British, Irish or Both.

My own personal take on it, is that this gives you Dual Citizenship as you are entitled to, and can claim at any time either or both Citizenships. IF you have two Citizenships you then have to meet one of the additional statues to qualify for either country.

Northern Nationalists will claim that they only want Irish Citizenship, and will never take British citizenship. Its a fair point, but again my take on it is that as they have the choice, they are technically dual citizens.

So, in the context of this issue, it boils down to this. Can a person be born in Northern Ireland, and not be eligible for the Northern Ireland football team? I honestly dont see how they could be deemed ineligable for their country of birth at birth.

This is the situation if there is no rule change, (which I dont think there will be, as, as stated before I dont think there is enough justification for a special rule to be introduced). We are very small blips on FIFAs radar screen. i.e. they dont really care, its not like we are France and Germany.

[Absinthe]

I see your point Absinthe but I'm not sure that's how it'd pan out. Of course you never have an answer until a test case is brought. BUT in a hypothetical situation where England offered a cap to an Irish lad of Gibsons age on the basis that he was resident in the English FAs jurisdiction for over two years -an appealant (either Irish FA or an opponent of Englands) may cite as best practice a ruling made against an English Rugby player (name avoids me) who attempted to play for Scotland on the basis he went to boarding school there.

In that case he was ruled inelligable as, regardless of where he slept at night and was normally resident for most of the previous five years, his legal address up until the day of his 18th birthday was his parents home back in England.

If the loophole exists there will be those who will look to exploit it. But,as I alluded to in my post i have no idea how the proof of residency rules work.

[galwayhoop]

why don't we all just wait for the official decision lads????

[paul_oshea]

They wont do that, and I wouldnt want them to. This is purely about eligibility, not that they played for us.

Again, why should you be allowed to pick anyone from outside your national boundries?

Im not trying to make this political, but whether you agree with it or not, or recognise it or not,there are two countries on the island of Ireland. That is a fact.


Hook, Line and whats the next word, oh ya sinker :D

By saying something stupid, its real easy to catch someone off-guard.

The fact that you started your concluding sentence with "not political" proves exactly that ;)

[Absinthe]

Hook, Line and whats the next word, oh ya sinker :D

By saying something stupid, its real easy to catch someone off-guard.

The fact that you started your concluding sentence with "not political" proves exactly that ;)

That was merely put there in response to posters continually referring to Northern Ireland as the Six Counties. I was only trying to avoid ambiguity. I get the impression that some people on here believe that the Republic of Ireland consists of the entire Island of Ireland.

Also, I didnt actually say "not political", in my post, I realised it was a political statement, but as has been pointed out by other posters, there is an obvious political element to this.

And im not actually sure what you think you've proved? Ive obviously missed something replying to 10 different peoples posts at the same time. Please feel free to enlighten me which cunningly placed trap I have fallen into......

And just in case I need to clarify my post, it doesnt matter to me whether they have played for Northern Ireland at underage level. This is about obeying the rules. IMO, 'Northern Nationalists' are not eligible for the Republic, for reasons outlined in several of my posts. Therefore, they shouldnt be selected.

If they are eligible, fill yer boots.

[jmurphyc]

IMO, 'Northern Nationalists' are not eligible for the Republic, for reasons outlined in several of my posts.

I've read most of your posts (if not all) and how you can say they're not eligible is beyond me. If you're saying it from FIFA's point of view, well, FIFA haven't ruled yet, and they currently do allow them to play for the Republic. Try not to look at it from a Nationalist's point of view; why shouldn't they be allowed to play? As far as they're concerned they are Irish. And they're entitled to Irish citizenship through birth, so IMO they're perfectly entitled to play for the Republic. They haven't just got it through some residency loophole or something FFS.

[Absinthe]

I think you'll find that 'Northern Nationalists' as you call them - Irish citizens in my book - will continue to want to play for Ireland. Strange that.

Im using that label in lieu of something better. I really couldnt be bothered to type 'People born in Northern Ireland that want to play football for the Republic of Ireland'.

But, good to see your interested in debate and not just knit-picking my statements when you already know what I mean.

And just to remind you, not all Nationalists want to play for the Republic of Ireland.

p.s. it wasnt actually me that originally started using the term.

[Absinthe]

I've read most of your posts (if not all) and how you can say they're not eligible is beyond me. If you're saying it from FIFA's point of view, well, FIFA haven't ruled yet, and they currently do allow them to play for the Republic. Try not to look at it from a Nationalist's point of view; why shouldn't they be allowed to play? As far as they're concerned they are Irish. And they're entitled to Irish citizenship through birth, so IMO they're perfectly entitled to play for the Republic. They haven't just got it through some residency loophole or something FFS.

Because they werent born within the FAI's juristiction, and dont have a grandparent born in the FAI's juristiction.

As in my post about 2-3 back,

FIFA rules on Dual-Citizenship are that you must meet one of the additional criteria to qualify to play. i.e. granny or residence.

FIFA have never looked into this situation, and therefore have not had a reason to question it. They are now looking at it. You should also note, that they were 'asked' by FIFA not to pick any of the players in question. This was the reason given for Tony Kane returning to the Northern Ireland U21's. They subsequently picked Darron Gibson for the full team. If that is true, (and I dont know for sure that it is), I would be surprised if FIFA didnt issue some sort of fine and/or points deduction, regardless of the outcome of this case. I am however assuming that the FAI wouldnt have picked him, if someone hadnt given them the nod.

The IFA have now queried if this is fair that another Association can select anyone from their own Associations membership.

The FAI are claiming that they can select players without meeting the additional annexe as they have the right to be considered Irish and only Irish from birth.

The IFA are claiming that they are also eligible for Northern Ireland (Dual-Citizenship), and therefore they must meet one of the additional criteria.

For the FAI to 'win', FIFA must either:

a) add a rule that dual-citizenship from birth is a 'special' case and the additional criteria doesnt apply
b) rule that having a passport from birth is enough to qualify.
c) something else along those lines.

[co. down green]

FIFA have never looked into this situation, and therefore have not had a reason to question it.

FIFA examined the situation twice in 2006, they endorsed Alex Bruce's right to represent Ireland in Jan/Feb 06, the IFA queried the decision and were told 'the existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland'." The IFA then queried the eligibility of Gibson and were given the same response in October 2006.

Pointless discussion until FIFA decide what their latest response will be, but should be interesting thereafter, as the IFA are using a purely political arguement in claiming that a large percentage of the population in the North do not have the right to be Irish only.

[Absinthe]

FIFA examined the situation twice in 2006, they endorsed Alex Bruce's right to represent Ireland in Jan/Feb 06, the IFA queried the decision and were told 'the existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland'." The IFA then queried the eligibility of Gibson and were given the same response in October 2006.

Pointless discussion until FIFA decide what their latest response will be, but should be interesting thereafter, as the IFA are using a purely political arguement in claiming that a large percentage of the population in the North do not have the right to be Irish only.

I think that the IFA where using a geographical arguement (i.e. you were born in Northern Ireland so you must be eligible, and if you are eligible for two teams the annex should apply), and that the FAI are using the purely political arguement.

And what is the point of a forum if not to chew the fat?

[Maroon 7]

And just to remind you, not all Nationalists want to play for the Republic of Ireland.


Possibly not but the vast majority probably would if given the oppertunity.

The fact that they would also play for NI is neither here nor there. A young footballer is not going to turn down international recognition no matter who it's with and all the benefits and exposure it gives his career.

[SaucyJack]

I have brought this up before, and not in a joking manner, why no uproar about Northern Ireland women playing in the Republic's women team?...is this against FIFA rules?....there are a couple, Laura Hislop of Belfast comes to mind.