NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

[as_i_say]

What drivel is this now? Gibson IS Irish and DOES want to play for us (and nobody else, as has been stated categorically by the player) so if he makes it he wont be taking anyones place just his own rightful one.

[paul_oshea]

However, if that were not open to me, I was offered the opportunity by the FAI to represent ROI, and I was eligible under FIFA's rules, then of course I would consider it - just like Kernaghan.

opportunity which then leads to choice. IF I were a footballer, I would consider it too ( what exactly does consider mean EG is it a Yes or a No ) to play for Northern Ireland , but I would choose ROI as has Darron has done, and as you would have done if, when you "considered" it and your choice ended up being ROI. Choice being the operative word here.

[EalingGreen]

Dermot Ahern intervened with FIFA to ensure an Irish passport is allowed for those who wish to play for NI but did not want to obtain a British passport. Dundalk's 2nd most famous supporter (after Maxi) may have caused us some problems here.

Sorry, Gspain, but you, too, are falling for the spin and bluster put about by Ahern in his effort to make political capital from this.

Quite simply, whilst Ahern was putting out Press Releases and giving interviews etc, it was the IFA who actually persuaded them to amend the offending Directive.

Dermot Ahern never even got as far as Switzerland, never mind got to meet anyone important! :rolleyes:

[eelmonster]

Similarly, the flag and anthem issue does not seem to deter Northern unionists from playing for the Ireland rugby team.


That's merely diplomatic protocol, neither the ROI flag nor the anthem are used outside of the southern jurisdiction - as witnessed in Ravenhill last week (GSTQ used to be played when the team played in the north).

Northern Ireland's only official flag is the Union flag - I see no reason why a player from a Nationalist background who has decided to play for NI could grumble about the use of the Union flag, or anthem for that matter. It simply illustrates that the organisation is Unionist/Loyalist in outlook - why not follow the example of your fellow UK associations Scotland and Wales and adopt a flag and anthem acceptable to all sections of the community in NI.

[geysir]

Darron's assertion of nationality is his birthright.
A decision made by Darron to play for Ireland is obviously reinforced by his background.
We are not here in this forum to discuss the merits or demerits of the social and political history of NI. We just have to accept and respect the situation as it is now and move forward from here. A decision that Darron made should not be made lightly. I'm glad that Kane can go back offer himself for the NI team, another plus for the FIFA structure which allows this up to the age of 21.
It would appear to me to be a more natural situation for Irish nationals in NI to continue playing with their peers through the NI football structure, it's an easy choice to make.
For those kids like Darron, they should have the structure maintained to facilitate a choice to declare for the Irish team. The FAI for their part should approach this with the interests of the player to the fore.

[livehead1]

Still waiting for an answer from EG as he seems to be knowledgable about some "political/non-footballing" matters that are behind the reason why he wasnt to play for us.

[Not Brazil]

I'm not sure if you have noticed the difference, but Linfield are a club who can pick and choose who they employ from a myriad of nationalities. Northern Ireland is, at least for the purposes of FIFA, a 'national team'. I don't mind going to work in Britain under a UJ, but that doesn't mean I am British. For Northern nationalists - your neighbours, perhaps you should try talking to them - the UJ is not the flag of their country. That's one of the many reasons so many support Ireland, and that Gibson wants to play for what he sees as his country.

Lopez,

The Union Flag flies in no official capacity at Northern Ireland games.

Those eligible, who do not wish to play for Northern Ireland, are no loss in my eyes.

If those players are eligible to play for someone else as well, and choose to do so, good luck to them.

I support players, of whatever background, who play with pride for Northern Ireland in order to try and win football matches.

A definative clearing of the air by FIFA/IFA/FAI is what is required at this point.

Whatever the outcome, we move on along our seperate paths.

[lopez]

Lopez,

The Union Flag flies in no official capacity at Northern Ireland games.I didn't say it flies now. But it has in the lifetime of DG.

[Not Brazil]

That's merely diplomatic protocol, neither the ROI flag nor the anthem are used outside of the southern jurisdiction - as witnessed in Ravenhill last week (GSTQ used to be played when the team played in the north).


The game in Belfast was deemed an "away" fixture by the IRFU.

"Protocol" only seems to work one way.

I'm sure it comes as a great shock to many people that Belfast is not in Ireland - at least according to the brains at the IRFU.

[geysir]

Sorry, Gspain, but you, too, are falling for the spin and bluster put about by Ahern in his effort to make political capital from this.

Quite simply, whilst Ahern was putting out Press Releases and giving interviews etc, it was the IFA who actually persuaded them to amend the offending Directive.

Dermot Ahern never even got as far as Switzerland, never mind got to meet anyone important! :rolleyes:
I agree with you re Aherne, part of his job though is to protect the interests of Irish nationals, in this matter he should have directed behind the scenes support to the IFA.
I suspect that the public support from the FAI might have stunned the IFA nobs for a short while, wondering if the IFA making a case for the 2 passport ID thing was a good or bad thing for NI football :)

[EalingGreen]

So tell me, what was your post of complaint following Marty's decision to put up a 'We support our Boys' banner on ourweeminds?

First, owc is a private messageboard, owned by Marty, who can do whatever the hell he likes with it.

Second, my Favourites Link takes me past the home page and straight into the forum, so I never even noticed the banner in question (which in any case, wasn't there when I checked just now).

Third, had I noticed it, I might well have complained, in the same way as I have complained about a number of other threads, posts etc, which I felt were similarly inappropriate.

Fourth, if the IFA ever carried a political message like that in any of its official publications or forums etc, then damned right I'd complain about it!

Finally, it's a bit rich your complaining about a political message on another Board when you posted on this Board that you were not just entitled, but proud, to sing IRA songs at ROI matches. As such, that puts you right up there with Young Irish and Livehead on this Board in your espousal of double standards...:rolleyes:

[livehead1]

Still waiting for an answer from EG to tell us all what darron gibsons "political/non-football" motives are for wanting to play for us and not ni.

[Not Brazil]

why not follow the example of your fellow UK associations Scotland and Wales and adopt a flag and anthem acceptable to all sections of the community in NI.

I think Wales fly the Welsh flag and the Scots fly the Scottish flag.

Northern Ireland fly a Northern Irish flag.

If we changed to a Saint Patrick's Cross, I'm quite sure I could live with that.

On anthem, I support the introduction of a new "sporting" anthem, to be played at appropriate football, GAA and rugby matches held in Northern Ireland.

The team called "Northern Ireland" will not be changing tho - and that's the real issue with many people.;)

[paul_oshea]

First, owc is a private messageboard, owned by Marty, who can do whatever the hell he likes with it.

Second, my Favourites Link takes me past the home page and straight into the forum, so I never even noticed the banner in question (which in any case, wasn't there when I checked just now).

Can you share this link? that lopez is refering to I mean.


The game in Belfast was deemed an "away" fixture by the IRFU.

"Protocol" only seems to work one way.

I'm sure it comes as a great shock to many people that Belfast is not in Ireland - at least according to the brains at the IRFU.

So when we play as "Ireland" belfast should be included as part of IReland? The island of Ireland?

[eelmonster]

The game in Belfast was deemed an "away" fixture by the IRFU.

Where on earth did you hear/read that!?

[EalingGreen]

So tell us o fountain of knowledge what are Gibson's political/non-footballing issues why he won't play for you lot? you would love to put it down to that now.

Maybe he wants to play for a side that has good footballers, great up and coming talent and might actually qualify for a major competition. In fact, Gibson might remember the days of the 1994 world cup or 2002 world cups, he'll hardly remember Northern Ireland last qualifying for a major tournament as he wasn't even born!!:D:D

So are you saying that it's actually a mercenary desire for success which is behind DG's opting for the ROI? Some Irishman, that, eh? Still, he'll be in good company with all the other "plastics" who suddenly remembered their Oirishness when the chance to play in World Cups etc presented itself.

Of course, when the Qualification Tables for Euro2008 are finally worked out, it could just turn out that he backed the wrong horse on that one, too! ;)

[livehead1]

So are you saying that it's actually a mercenary desire for success which is behind DG's opting for the ROI? Some Irishman, that, eh? Still, he'll be in good company with all the other "plastics" who suddenly remembered their Oirishness when the chance to play in World Cups etc presented itself.

Of course, when the Qualification Tables for Euro2008 are finally worked out, it could just turn out that he backed the wrong horse on that one, too! ;)

You haven't answered the question. Your like a fecking politician, attempt to answer a question by asking a question!

[eelmonster]

I think Wales fly the Welsh flag and the Scots fly the Scottish flag.

Northern Ireland fly a Northern Irish flag.

If we changed to a Saint Patrick's Cross, I'm quite sure I could live with that.

On anthem, I support the introduction of a new "sporting" anthem, to be played at appropriate football, GAA and rugby matches held in Northern Ireland.


I think that would be a very positive move - but can you imagine trying to convince the GAA, or some of the more extreme NI supporters. :(

[EalingGreen]

The original IFA represented the island of Ireland, not 6 counties in the north east of the country (as it was then ;)) and certainly didn't fly a defunct sectarian flag.

I have no idea what flag, if any, the IFA flew prior to 1921. But I am certain that the IFA will never have flown any "sectarian" flag of any sort, defunct or current, at any stage before or since.

[eelmonster]

I have no idea what flag, if any, the IFA flew prior to 1921. But I am certain that the IFA will never have flown any "sectarian" flag of any sort, defunct or current, at any stage before or since.


The Ulster banner is a politically sectarian flag.

[EalingGreen]

I'm not sure if you have noticed the difference, but Linfield are a club who can pick and choose who they employ from a myriad of nationalities. Northern Ireland is, at least for the purposes of FIFA, a 'national team'. I don't mind going to work in Britain under a UJ, but that doesn't mean I am British. For Northern nationalists - your neighbours, perhaps you should try talking to them - the UJ is not the flag of their country. That's one of the many reasons so many support Ireland, and that Gibson wants to play for what he sees as his country.

And the IFA does not fly the Union Flag at NI matches, so how might that deter Gibson or any other Nationalist?

[Not Brazil]

Where on earth did you hear/read that!?

In order to have to avoid playing GSTQ at Ravenhill, as previous protocol demanded, the IRFU deemed the game to be an away fixture.

Belfast Newsletter 21/08/06

"Confirming that Phil coulter’s Ireland’s Call will be played pre-match at Ravenhill and not God Save The Queen, an IRFU Ulster branch spokeswoman said that it was a matter of policy.

“When Ireland play in Dublin, the Irish national anthem plus Ireland’s Call are played but, when the team play outside Ireland, wherever that might be, only Ireland’s Call is played” she said. “So this is not out of the norm”.

:eek:

[Not Brazil]

I think that would be a very positive move - but can you imagine trying to convince the GAA, or some of the more extreme NI supporters. :(

Well, I and many others will be continuing to try and convince enough Northern Ireland supporters of it's merits.

[livehead1]

And the IFA does not fly the Union Flag at NI matches, so how might that deter Gibson or any other Nationalist?

It certainly didn't deter Sammy Clingan, my mate got his autograph and it was signed sammy clingan 32 :D:D

[Not Brazil]

It certainly didn't deter Sammy Clingan, my mate got his autograph and it was signed sammy clingan 32 :D:D

Great to see Sammy give 100% for the six tho, isn't it?:D

Smashing bloke by the way.

[eelmonster]

In order to have to avoid playing GSTQ at Ravenhill, as previous protocol demanded, the IRFU deemed the game to be an away fixture.

Belfast Newsletter 21/08/06

"Confirming that Phil coulter’s Ireland’s Call will be played pre-match at Ravenhill and not God Save The Queen, an IRFU Ulster branch spokeswoman said that it was a matter of policy.

“When Ireland play in Dublin, the Irish national anthem plus Ireland’s Call are played but, when the team play outside Ireland, wherever that might be, only Ireland’s Call is played” she said. “So this is not out of the norm”.

:eek:

:eek: Absurd.

[shakermaker1982]

this thread is fantastic. Going round in lots circles and going nowhere fast but highly enjoyable. How I see it? Gibson is Irish, wanted to play for us and has at last been given that opportunity. Good luck to Norhern Ireland in the Euro's, I hope you qualify. If rugby fans can get on why not football fans?

[Not Brazil]

:eek: Absurd.

The IRFU = Building an Ireland of Unequals.

[EalingGreen]

What drivel is this now? Gibson IS Irish and DOES want to play for us (and nobody else, as has been stated categorically by the player) so if he makes it he wont be taking anyones place just his own rightful one.

If that's how Gibson sees it, fine. I was asked what I would do if offered the chance to represent the ROI and merely stated that I would certainly consider it, but might be concerned that I might be taking the place of someone who was much more committed to them than I.

The fact that I might be a better player than the player I was keeping out is not the be-all and end-all of it for me, since I consider representing ones country to be about more than just the "best" players playing for the "best" team.

Were I given a straight choice between NI and the ROI, or England, or Brazil for that matter, I would choose NI every single time, irrespective of the fact that two of those teams offer a better chance of winning cups and medals etc.

[EalingGreen]

Can you share this link? that lopez is refering to I mean?


Again, are you asking me? If so, Lopez was referring to a banner (presumably on the OWC home page?) which I never even saw. That is because instead of my typing in the website's full title when i want to access it, which would take me to the home page, I click on a shortcut which takes me straight to the forum section.

[livehead1]

Eg What Are Gibson's "political/non-footballing" Motives For Playing For Us And Not Your Lot??

[livehead1]

The IRFU = Building an Ireland of Unequals.

I thought thats what the army did 38 years ago?

[EalingGreen]

Darron's assertion of nationality is his birthright.
A decision made by Darron to play for Ireland is obviously reinforced by his background.
We are not here in this forum to discuss the merits or demerits of the social and political history of NI. We just have to accept and respect the situation as it is now and move forward from here. A decision that Darron made should not be made lightly. I'm glad that Kane can go back offer himself for the NI team, another plus for the FIFA structure which allows this up to the age of 21.
It would appear to me to be a more natural situation for Irish nationals in NI to continue playing with their peers through the NI football structure, it's an easy choice to make.
For those kids like Darron, they should have the structure maintained to facilitate a choice to declare for the Irish team. The FAI for their part should approach this with the interests of the player to the fore.

So what you're saying [emboldened] is that the IFA should spend their scarce resources developing young players so that they (the players) may then opt to play for another Association, should it suit them?

I'm sorry, but notwithstanding the right within the Rules of any youngster to switch, that's not what I pay my admission or membership money to the IFA for - and I would say that equally in respect of players who wish to switch to ROI, England or any other Association.

[RogerMilla]

The original IFA represented the island of Ireland, not 6 counties in the north east of the country (as it was then ;)) and certainly didn't fly a defunct sectarian flag.

I have no idea what flag, if any, the IFA flew prior to 1921. But I am certain that the IFA will never have flown any "sectarian" flag of any sort, defunct or current, at any stage before or since.

EG you are the one who comes on here talking about NI being the successor to the team , or indeed the continuation of the team prior to 1921 or 1950 and you dotn know what flag they played under ???

[livehead1]

[QUOTE=EalingGreen;759889]

EG you are the one who comes on here talking about NI being the successor to the team , or indeed the continuation of the team prior to 1921 or 1950 and you dotn know what flag they played under ???

sure the mans a muppet i've said it for months! how anyone can have as much time as that to post such diatribe on numerous forums is beyond me!

[RogerMilla]

:eek: Absurd.

Sophistry of the highest order. How can Ravenhill not be in Ireland?

[Not Brazil]

I thought thats what the army did 38 years ago?

I'm talking sport chum.:rolleyes:

[livehead1]

I'm talking sport chum.:rolleyes:

lol sorry, just having the craic with ya!!! Last day at work, no court attendance and off to majorca on monday, I am ON IT!!

[geysir]

If that's how Gibson sees it, fine. I was asked what I would do if offered the chance to represent the ROI and merely stated that I would certainly consider it, but might be concerned that I might be taking the place of someone who was much more committed to them than I.

The fact that I might be a better player than the player I was keeping out is not the be-all and end-all of it for me, since I consider representing ones country to be about more than just the "best" players playing for the "best" team.

Were I given a straight choice between NI and the ROI, or England, or Brazil for that matter, I would choose NI every single time, irrespective of the fact that two of those teams offer a better chance of winning cups and medals etc.
Putting interpretations of FIFA rules aside.
I can respect any NI born Irish National choosing to play for the NI team. I don't see real substance with politics coming into the equation. I can imagine they are very proud to represent NI.
Do you respect an NI born Irish National's decision to choose the Irish team?

[Not Brazil]

lol sorry, just having the craic with ya!!! Last day at work, no court attendance and off to majorca on monday, I am ON IT!!

Enjoy your holiday.:cool:

[Paddy Garcia]

no court attendance and off to majorca on monday,

Good lad - I like to see foot.e boys keeping out of trouble - please also keep up the good behaviour when you get back.

[Maroon 7]

Putting interpretations of FIFA rules aside.
I can respect any NI born Irish National choosing to play for the NI team. I don't see real substance with politics coming into the equation. I can imagine they are very proud to represent NI.
Do you respect an NI born Irish National's decision to choose the Irish team?

I imagine they would answer with "it's not about whether we have respect for his decision. It's about whether it's valid under FIFA's elegibility rules".:D

[co. down green]

The IRFU = Building an Ireland of Unequals.

nb

Are you that well known troll who spends his life online touring sites using various names/handles.(including owc site) :confused:

You sound very like him.

[livehead1]

Good lad - I like to see foot.e boys keeping out of trouble - please also keep up the good behaviour when you get back.

LMFAO

[EalingGreen]

Still waiting for an answer from EG as he seems to be knowledgable about some "political/non-footballing" matters that are behind the reason why he wasnt to play for us.

I'm not quite sure what you're after with your question, but my point is that I am not entirely persuaded about Gibson's motives for adopting his "ROI or nothing" stance.

On the one hand, I can quite understand why someone who comes from a Nationalist background like his would prefer to play for the ROI over NI. I've no problem with such an aspiration and assuming he's eligible, then I wish him good luck (except if he should ever play against NI, that is!).

However, whilst a preference towards ROI is one thing, antipathy towards NI, even if that were the only option for international football open to him, is something else. And I can only conclude that his opposition to playing for NI is at least in part politically-motivated. Otherwise, why are the majority of other players from a Nationalist background, whether with the choice to represent ROI or not, still prepared to represent NI?

If I am correct in my surmising, then fair enough, he's entitled to believe whatever the hell he likes, but imo he is a lesser person for it than other (Nationalist) players who do not let personal political convictions cloud their reasoning over footballing issues. Or lesser than the likes of Alan Kernaghan. Or indeed, lesser than those northern Unionists (myself included), who always trooped to Lansdowne in their thousands to watch Ireland play, irrespective of the fact that it was under a flag (Tricolour) and to an anthem (Soldiers Song) which does not in any way represent our tradition on this island.

Having said all that, othere are one or two other aspects of this which don't quite fit. For one thing, DG was happy enough originally to represent NI in under-age football. Which in itself wouldn't necessarily mean anything, except that he has also mentioned previously that he fell out with an IFA coach who wanted him to play for NI at a time when MU were ofering him a trial. Why should that be pertinent, if he was always only ever going to represent ROI in the long term, anyhow?

And one other minor point is that a significant number of those youngsters currently switching from NI to ROI come from Derry, like Gibson. Which is understandable enough, seeing as how it's a Nationalist town, on the border, with its senior team playing in the Eircom. Except that DG is actually a product of Institute FC, the club from the "other" side of the river.

Anyhow, now that I've answered as best I can your question, Livehead, is there any chance you'll answer mine from yesterday? You know, when I asked you to find the post where you say I accused you of being a "bigot" , on account of your signature? :rolleyes:

[EalingGreen]

EG you are the one who comes on here talking about NI being the successor to the team , or indeed the continuation of the team prior to 1921 or 1950 and you dotn know what flag they played under ???

I know that the NI team administered by the IFA is the successor to the Ireland team administered by, ahem, the IFA, since it's pretty damned obvious.

But I don't know what flag, if any, flew over Windsor, Solitude, North, Lansdowne etc when Ireland were playing internationals 86+ years ago, since I'm not old enough* to have attended. I am, however, capable of disabusing those misinformed individuals who seem to think that the Union Flag currently flies over Windsor...


* - And even if I were, I'd probably be incapable of remembering ;)

[EalingGreen]

Do you respect an NI born Irish National's decision to choose the Irish team?

I had hoped I had made it perfectly clear in my previous posts, but I completely understand and respect an NI-born Nationalist's aspirations to represent the ROI and providing they comply with all of FIFA's eligibility criteria, then good luck to them all.

That includes Gibson, even despite the fact of his "ROI or nothing stance", which I can only conclude must not only be pro-ROI, but at least partly anti-NI in motivation. Indeed, if he should be ruled ineligible for ROI, and were prepared to change his mind about NI (however unlikely), I would not hold this against him.

Rather, I would leave it to the NI manager to determine, on footballing grounds, whether he should be selected or not.

[Paddy Garcia]

However, whilst a preference towards ROI is one thing, antipathy towards NI, even if that were the only option for international football open to him, is something else.


That's a bit rich tbh EO - I think I have expressed my disapppointment at the celebratory stance you and your buddies adopt when Ireland lose, go through a hard time (plenty for you to celebrate I grant), drop in the rankings etc etc. Would you therefore concede that your antipathy is politically motiovated.

And to be fair I've not heard anything negative about NI from Gibson, only positive feelings for Ireland. You are looking for a political slant to justify the suite of unhealthy views you have built.

I'd always rooted for the North in the past, but the level of antipathy (& worse) from you guys makes it very hard to warm to supporters of your team.

[EalingGreen]

I imagine they would answer with "it's not about whether we have respect for his decision. It's about whether it's valid under FIFA's elegibility rules".:D

And you would "imagine" completely wrongly, Maroon 7, at least as regards this poster, to whom Geysir's question was originally directed (see Post# 514)

[geysir]

Ealing G in your answer you neglected to read and comprehend the conditional "Putting interpretations of FIFA rules aside."

I would say the likely interpretation is that the "Ireland or Nobody" is a reaction to the IFA and team Manager public bleating about Darron and his choice.
It has affected him and his family.