NI boss targets Republic's Gibson [Archive] - Page 11

EalingGreen

31/08/2007, 1:16 PM

That's a bit rich tbh EO - I think I have expressed my disapppointment at the celebratory stance you and your buddies adopt when Ireland lose, go through a hard time (plenty for you to celebrate I grant), drop in the rankings etc etc. Would you therefore concede that your antipathy is politically motiovated.

And to be fair I've not heard anything negative about NI from Gibson, only positive feelings for Ireland. You are looking for a political slant to justify the suite of unhealthy views you have built.

I'd always rooted for the North in the past, but the level of antipathy (& worse) from you guys makes it very hard to warm to supporters of your team.

I can only speak for myself, not my "buddies". But any "antipathy" I feel towards the ROI is based on two things, neither of them political.

The first is all part of the normal rivalry and banter which goes on between football fans i.e. after years of having to endure jokes and digs when we were s hite and you were flying high, it's nice now that the pendulum has swung the other way and we can return the favour. I intend to make the most of it, before it swings back again (as it no doubt will). As such, if you think I give your lot a hard time, you should hear the fun I've been having with my England pals (and fellow Brits!) over that night, nearly two years ago!

The second is a degree of resentment at the FAI having unilaterally decided to break the decades old "Gentlemens' Agreement" and start selecting NI-born players. Worse still, I mistrust them when they say that they never approach players, only respond when approached, since at least two players (Baird & McKenna) have given the lie to that.

Anyhow, that resentment is not politically-motivated, since I would say the exact same if we were similarly treated by any other Association anywhere else in the world. If you want a clearer exposition for my motivation in this respect, see Post #350 on this thread.

Paddy Garcia

31/08/2007, 1:17 PM

Ireland or nobody" comment was probably made in exasperation and in an attempt to categorically reaffirm his desire to take up his birth right and play for Ireland.

Agree - can you imagine "my first choice is Ireland, however despite the assurances from FIFA, and my own certainty regarding eligibility, I'd quite like to keep the door open to play for the North in the event of successful lobbying by zealous unionists".

Paddy Garcia

31/08/2007, 1:29 PM

I can only speak for myself, not my "buddies". But any "antipathy" I feel towards the ROI is based on two things, neither of them political.

The first is all part of the normal rivalry and banter which goes on between football fans i.e. after years of having to endure jokes and digs when we were s hite and you were flying high, it's nice now that the pendulum has swung the other way and we can return the favour. I intend to make the most of it, before it swings back again (as it no doubt will). As such, if you think I give your lot a hard time, you should hear the fun I've been having with my England pals (and fellow Brits!) over that night, nearly two years ago!

The second is a degree of resentment at the FAI having unilaterally decided to break the decades old "Gentlemens' Agreement" and start selecting NI-born players. Worse still, I mistrust them when they say that they never approach players, only respond when approached, since at least two players (Baird & McKenna) have given the lie to that.

Anyhow, that resentment is not politically-motivated, since I would say the exact same if we were similarly treated by any other Association anywhere else in the world. If you want a clearer exposition for my motivation in this respect, see Post #350 on this thread.

Well on point 2 the political world has changed and now NI born players, can rightly, play for their country: Ireland. So objectively that "Gentlemens' Agreement" is well & truly defunct, not least cos it is decades old - & reflected an era when nationalists were the underdogs!

Though I'd be inclined to be more open and encourage them to approach likely recruits, & be open about it.

EalingGreen

31/08/2007, 1:29 PM

Ealing G in your answer you neglected to read and comprehend the conditional "Putting interpretations of FIFA rules aside."

I would say the likely interpretation is that the "Ireland or Nobody" is a reaction to the IFA and team Manager public bleating about Darron and his choice.
It has affected him and his family.

Except that he originally stated his "ROI or nothing" stance before the recent pronouncements by Wells and Worthy.

And as for it "affecting his family", I can see how it might be irritating for them. However, can you not see where Wells and Worthy are coming from?

As Wolfie has alluded to, Wells's and the IFA's concern is that if this is not challenged, then it could lead to NI losing significant numbers of other players from what is already a small enough pool. Any Association is going to do exactly the same, should it consider that Regulations may be being broken. And Wells has said several times that it is nothing personal against DG.

As for Worthington, rather than conducting a "witchhunt" against DG, as some posters on here would have it, he is merely saying to DG that should he prove ineligible for the ROI (as the IFA thinks he may be), we will not exclude him from an international career entirely (subject to the player's agreement, of course).

As such, Worthy is only doing what most new managers do when they take over (Stan, for example) in seeking to select from the widest possible choice of players. If he or the IFA were the politically or sectarian-motivated bigots that some here would have us believe, surely their response to DG would be: "Don't think we'll have you back if you lose your case with FIFA"? :eek:

fhtb

31/08/2007, 1:32 PM

Agree - can you imagine "my first choice is Ireland, however despite the assurances from FIFA, and my own certainty regarding eligibility, I'd quite like to keep the door open to play for the North in the event of successful lobbying by those not wishing to see the Football For All message in NI undermined".

Wipe the political mud from your eyesight.

Not Brazil

31/08/2007, 1:37 PM

Yeah - there's an obvious fear amongst the North's support that Gibson could be the thin end of the wedge re dual eligibility.

No "fear" whatsoever.

All that matters is that Northern Ireland only field players who are totally committed to doing their very best for Northern Ireland.

If there are those in our ranks who don't give 100% for the shirt, get rid of them I say.

Those players eligible to play for Northern Ireland who don't wish to, for whatever reason, are no loss at all.

Give me a limited player with a burning desire to succeed with Northern Ireland over a gifted player whose heart isn't in it every time.

Fighting over players who don't want to play for you is, frankly, rather stupid in my opinion.

Concentrate on those players who are totally committed, and develop accordingly, is how I want to see things going forward.

Onwards and Upwards, as the saying goes.

Paddy Garcia

31/08/2007, 1:38 PM

As such, Worthy is only doing what most new managers do when they take over (Stan, for example) in seeking to select from the widest possible choice of players. If he or the IFA were the politically or sectarian-motivated bigots that some here would have us believe, surely their response to DG would be: "Don't think we'll have you back if you lose your case with FIFA"? :eek:

I can of course see where they are coming from - but there are some things bigger and more important than even football. He, Wells & Co should not be seeking to undo the right to self determination agreed for the people for the North.

I accept Worthys motivation is purely football (though I think ill advised), but it does stir up a lot of bad feelings, hatred (& potentially worse) which he would have been all to well aware of.

EalingGreen

31/08/2007, 1:39 PM

Agree - can you imagine "my first choice is Ireland, however despite the assurances from FIFA, and my own certainty regarding eligibility, I'd quite like to keep the door open to play for the North in the event of successful lobbying by zealous unionists".

Nonsense. All it takes is an anoydyne statement from DG along the lines of "ROI is my preferred choice and since I am informed by the FAI that I am eligible, that's all I'm concentrating on".

After all, it looks as if Tony Kane managed not to "burn his boats" in similar circumstances.

Paddy Garcia

31/08/2007, 1:41 PM

Wipe the political mud from your eyesight.

So you would agree with the statement to which this was a retort - that Gibson was politically motivated by stating "Ireland or no one"

Wipe it from yours

RogerMilla

31/08/2007, 1:44 PM

Give me a limited player with a burning desire to succeed with Northern Ireland over a gifted player whose heart isn't in it every time..

no chance , those are the fellas we're after!! :p;)

fhtb

31/08/2007, 1:44 PM

He, Wells & Co should not be seeking to undo the right to self determination agreed for the people for the North

That's a new one. So I guess we've no need to pay taxes to Her Majesty's Government anymore? Why didn't anyone tell us this sooner

Paddy Garcia

31/08/2007, 1:44 PM

Nonsense. All it takes is an anoydyne statement from DG along the lines of "ROI is my preferred choice and since I am informed by the FAI that I am eligible, that's all I'm concentrating on".

After all, it looks as if Tony Kane managed not to "burn his boats" in similar circumstances.

But I want all our players to want to play for us & no one else & to say it - it's exactly the spirit we need, & I don't think he has anything to apologise for.

I don't want us to be his "preferred choice" - I want to be his only choice. Which is what he said.

RogerMilla

31/08/2007, 1:49 PM

That's a new one. So I guess we've no need to pay taxes to Her Majesty's Government anymore? Why didn't anyone tell us this sooner

eh , i think some people have been trying to !

eelmonster

31/08/2007, 1:51 PM

The first is all part of the normal rivalry and banter which goes on between football fans i.e. after years of having to endure jokes and digs when we were s hite and you were flying high, it's nice now that the pendulum has swung the other way and we can return the favour.

:D You haven't qualified yet - and it's not that long ago since you went 2 years without scoring a goal! However, DH has changed all that, he's without doubt the Premiership signing of the summer.

fhtb

31/08/2007, 1:53 PM

So you would agree with the statement to which this was a retort - that Gibson was politically motivated by stating "Ireland or no one"

Wipe it from yours
He may be politically motivated, he may not. Either way it doesn't mean objectors are 'zealous unionists'. Wise the bap like

osarusan

31/08/2007, 1:56 PM

But I want all our players to want to play for us & no one else & to say it.
I don't want us to be his "preferred choice" - I want to be his only choice. Which is what he said.

How likely is that to happen given where he grew up and who he represented at underage level?

fhtb

31/08/2007, 1:56 PM

eh , i think some people have been trying to !
Didn't let me in on it. I'm going to put my new-found right to self determination to good use, and set up my own Republic, zero tax rate. You can join if you want, but only if you declare an 'aspiration' to play for my football team

don't worry about passports, I can issue those to whoever I want, we can call it your birthright or something :rolleyes:

RogerMilla

31/08/2007, 1:59 PM

EalingGreen

31/08/2007, 2:01 PM

I can of course see where they are coming from - but there are some things bigger and more important than even football. He, Wells & Co should not be seeking to undo the right to self determination agreed for the people for the North.

I accept Worthys motivation is purely football (though I think ill advised), but it does stir up a lot of bad feelings, hatred (& potentially worse) which he would have been all to well aware of.

Of course there are bigger and more important things than football, but just as political developments like the GFA should not affect football (imo), football deciding that someone may play for one team but not another, need not in any way affect someones "right to self-determination" on political matters.

Can you not see the difference? Or assuming for the sake of argument that they are Nationalists, do you think e.g. Chris Baird or "Sammy Clingan 32" are any less Irish or Nationalist for playing football for NI?

As for Worthy, I accept that his (football-motivated) utterances may have caused irritation, even difficulty, for DG and his family (though strictly speaking, it is more the Press).

But can you honestly tell me how a new manager stating that if a player changes his mind, or is barred from playing for another team, that he will be welcomed back to his first team, could stir up "hatred or worse"?

All DG has to say is "Thanks, but no thanks" and wait for FIFA to decide.

osarusan

31/08/2007, 2:01 PM

Didn't let me in on it. I'm going to put my new-found right to self determination to good use, and set up my own Republic, zero tax rate. You can join if you want, but only if you declare an 'aspiration' to play for my football team

don't worry about passports, I can issue those to whoever I want, we can call it your birthright or something :rolleyes:

I'm in.

Make me the ambassador to Japan please.

I'll do my best to create a new citizenship issue which will come to the fore in 18 years or so.

geysir

31/08/2007, 2:05 PM

How likely is that to happen given where he grew up and who he represented at underage level?
It has happened now with Darron.
With FIFA's blessing :)
Who knows for the future:)

We have covered all the angles re international eligibility. Our league is nurturing great talent, unable at present to hold onto them.
The competition for places in our squad is hotter than ever.

EalingGreen

31/08/2007, 2:11 PM

But I want all our players to want to play for us & no one else & to say it - it's exactly the spirit we need, & I don't think he has anything to apologise for.

I don't want us to be his "preferred choice" - I want to be his only choice. Which is what he said.

Well that is where we must disagree. I've no doubt had you asked e.g. Pat Jennings, his preferred choice would have been a United Ireland team, maybe even the ROI, over NI. But that never stopped him giving 100% for NI over 126 games.

Similarly, NI was Alan Kernaghan's preferred choice. But when we didn't allow him to play for us (stupidly, I might add, since it would have been OK with FIFA), he was quite prepared to turn out for the ROI, always giving 100% (afaik). Did you resent him for your not being his first choice?

Which is why I can only think that DG's motivation is at least partly political. After all, neither you nor he can point to any footballing reasons why he might not represent NI, in the event of his being ruled ineligible for ROI by FIFA.

geysir

31/08/2007, 2:14 PM

After all, neither you nor he can point to any footballing reasons why he might not represent NI, in the event of his being ruled ineligible for ROI by FIFA.
Sometimes we are not as keen as you to enter the fantasy world of H. Wells

EalingGreen

31/08/2007, 2:18 PM

Sometimes we are not as keen as you to enter the fantasy world of H. Wells

It is not "fantasy", it is still open to be decided. In which case, should FIFA determine that DG may not play for ROI, what footballing reasons could he have for not throwing his lot in with NI? He was prepared to represent NI before now. And after all, Alan Kernaghan did it in reverse.

Paddy Garcia

31/08/2007, 2:23 PM

Or assuming for the sake of argument that they are Nationalists, do you think e.g. Chris Baird or "Sammy Clingan 32" are any less Irish or Nationalist for playing football for NI?

No I don't - cos they have free choice & I support their decision - just like Gibson.

geysir

31/08/2007, 2:33 PM

It is not "fantasy"
Hold your horses, lighten up a bit
Okay, 'science fiction', if you want to be so pedantic :)

paul_oshea

31/08/2007, 2:44 PM

Did you resent him for your not being his first choice?

no, just for him being crap...

..AH, maybe that was it!

RogerMilla

31/08/2007, 2:50 PM

no, just for him being crap...

..AH, maybe that was it!

he wasnt that crap , and served us well when we needed him. and long may the northern lads continue to do so !:D

Paddy Garcia

31/08/2007, 3:00 PM

All DG has to say is "Thanks, but no thanks" and wait for FIFA to decide.

But we know it's decided.

brine3

31/08/2007, 3:28 PM

The GFA agreement has nothing to do with this btw as NI born people were entitled to Irish passports all along.

That's correct, but before the GFA this was only something that the Irish government offered, without official approval from the British. Post-GFA both the UK and Irish governments recognise the right of people from Northern Ireland to claim British nationality, Irish nationality or both. So bascially the de facto government of Northern Ireland (the UK) and a large majority of it's people (vis-a-vis the 1998 referendum) approve of Gibson legally holding Irish nationality.

So I don't think it can really be compared to Brazilians being given Qatari passports. There is no bilateral agreement on nationality between the Brazilian and Qatari governments like there is between the UK and Irish governments.

tricky_colour

31/08/2007, 5:17 PM

It is not "fantasy", it is still open to be decided. In which case, should FIFA determine that DG may not play for ROI, what footballing reasons could he have for not throwing his lot in with NI? He was prepared to represent NI before now. And after all, Alan Kernaghan did it in reverse.

He has as much chance of playing for NI as Osama Bin Laden has of playing for the USA basketball team.

Paddy Garcia

31/08/2007, 8:14 PM

Didn't let me in on it. I'm going to put my new-found right to self determination to good use, and set up my own Republic, zero tax rate. You can join if you want, but only if you declare an 'aspiration' to play for my football team

don't worry about passports, I can issue those to whoever I want, we can call it your birthright or something :rolleyes:

I've not been following the whole thread, but I've just realised you are a new recruit from OWC. Anyway welcome.

Made me laugh telling me to wipe the political mud from my eyes - I see all your 12 posts are on this topic - I hope you can contribute to other issues here, other than this "political item".

PS what does fhtb stand for ?

geysir

31/08/2007, 8:20 PM

I wonder would this drug work for those IFA aficionados stuck in denial.

"New York, USA.
Government medical services and prison authorities around the world are reportedly "overjoyed" by the launch of a new prescription drug that cures people who are suffering doubts about the veracity of anything scientific which conflicts with their own beliefs.

Shares in Alabama Pharmaceuticals Incorporated (API) rocketed to 89 US dollars following the long-awaited announcement of a miracle cure for Truth Denial Syndrome (TDS).

Soon to be marketed and sold under the name Wellozac, the drug works by rapidly closing down the brain's centre of intellectual inquiry. It also blocks the re-uptake of politically incorrect neurotransmitters involved in critical thought processes, surprisingly this has the effect of reactivating the dormant ability to distinguish between truth and lies.
Particularly so in the European Union where prisons & mental hospitals are bursting at the seams with professors, journalists and academics who are all suffering the symptoms of advanced and potentially fatal TDS and other associated diseases.
There are however side effects associated with Wellozac. It's active ingredient Zealotine has been shown to cause pathological episodes of ludicrous behaviour."

Bottle of Tonic

31/08/2007, 9:08 PM

Jesus, posting on this thread has gone through the roof the last few days since I last looked in on it! It's all during the day though......
What sort of cushy-arse desk jobs are ye all at that ye can afford to spend the whole day on foot.ie(and every other site searching to back up arguments)?!?!?
jesus after the days work I'm after putting in ye make me sick! :D

cheifo

31/08/2007, 9:55 PM

There appears to be no loan move for Gibson before deadline.Suprised to be honest.Reserve team football doesnt help anybody.

co. down green

31/08/2007, 11:02 PM

There appears to be no loan move for Gibson before deadline.Suprised to be honest.Reserve team football doesnt help anybody.

According to last weeks Times

'Several Premier League clubs have enquired about taking Darron Gibson, the highly-rated young Manchester United midfield player, on loan, although the champions have so far turned down all offers.'

And speaking after Gibson's performance against Doncaster in a pre-season friendly earlier in the month Ferguson said "I thought Darron was excellent, He is potentially one of the best young players at the club. He's got good physical prowess, two great feet, good pace - he's got everything in his locker.He just needs experience and that's something he'll hopefully get plenty of this season."

Ferguson seems intent on keeping him at Old Trafford for the season.

I think a loan deal would have been a better idea for the 19 year old but Fergie seems to have his own plans.

lopez

31/08/2007, 11:49 PM

First, owc is a private messageboard, owned by Marty, who can do whatever the hell he likes with it.

Second, my Favourites Link takes me past the home page and straight into the forum, so I never even noticed the banner in question (which in any case, wasn't there when I checked just now).

Third, had I noticed it, I might well have complained, in the same way as I have complained about a number of other threads, posts etc, which I felt were similarly inappropriate.

Fourth, if the IFA ever carried a political message like that in any of its official publications or forums etc, then damned right I'd complain about it!

Finally, it's a bit rich your complaining about a political message on another Board when you posted on this Board that you were not just entitled, but proud, to sing IRA songs at ROI matches. As such, that puts you right up there with Young Irish and Livehead on this Board in your espousal of double standards...:rolleyes:Nice politician's response and typical EG. Wouldn't bet on it, but I thought the message was on the forum page aswell. It is good to see that you would have offered your objections had you known this was happening.

As for my own double standards, I'm not seeking to attract unionists or Britons, inside or outside, the 26C to support (the Republic of) Ireland. If you looked elsewhere on this forum there's a ticket scarcity for a match on Wednesday week. As I already stated, I'd point all unionist football fans and prospective players towards Windsor Park where they'd feel more at home.

EalingGreen

02/09/2007, 1:04 PM

Nice politician's response and typical EG. Wouldn't bet on it, but I thought the message was on the forum page aswell. It is good to see that you would have offered your objections had you known this was happening.

As for my own double standards, I'm not seeking to attract unionists or Britons, inside or outside, the 26C to support (the Republic of) Ireland. If you looked elsewhere on this forum there's a ticket scarcity for a match on Wednesday week. As I already stated, I'd point all unionist football fans and prospective players towards Windsor Park where they'd feel more at home.

Were I really a politician, I would doubtless have offered an opinion (either way), despite not having even seen the item in question, but I'm not, so I won't.

As for your second paragraph, are you really trying to justify your espousal of the singing of partisan political songs at football matches as a means of "controlling" demand for tickets? Does this mean you feel such songs should not be sung at matches which might not otherwise sell out?

Nope. I'm sure my original opinion stands: for you to berate the owner of a private website for expressing his support for his compatriots who are fighting overseas (not the actual conflict itself, btw), when you support the singing of political songs at a public football match is pure hypocrisy.

"Football For All?" - Not when you're Lopez, it would seem...

Maroon 7

02/09/2007, 1:21 PM

Worthington still stirring today.

Northern Ireland boss Nigel Worthington has drafted Tony Kane into his squad for the Euro 2008 qualifiers against Latvia and Iceland next week.

The 22-year-old Blackburn Rovers full-back has decided to switch allegiance from the Republic of Ireland to the country of his birth.
Kane has played in two U21 friendlies for the Republic.
"I was extremely encouraged by the response of Tony to our invitation to join the squad," said Worthington.
Kane represented the Republic after playing for Northern Ireland at U18 and U19 level.
Worthington has promoted the defender from the N Ireland U21 squad.
"I feel he can benefit enormously from the experience and I'm encouraged by his enthusiasm to participate," Worthington told the Sunday Life.
"This is a very positive sign for the IFA and the team itself."
Kane's call-up follows the controversy over Manchester United youngster Darron Gibson, who is at the centre of a dispute between the Republic and Northern Ireland over his eligibility.
The Londonderry man, who impressed in the Republic's friendly win over Denmark, is in their squad for the Euro 2008 qualifiers against Slovakia and the Czech Republic.
But the the Irish FA, which governs football in Northern Ireland, believes the the FAI will break Fifa rules if Gibson plays in either game.
Northern Ireland are awaiting a Fifa ruling on Gibson's elibility.
"I will be doing everything in my power to get him (Gibson) into our system," added Worthington.
"He's in the Republic squad but I really can't see them playing him.
"If he plays and then Fifa deem he isn't eligible for them then they could be punished and they wouldn't take the risk of losing points when the decision could still go against them."
Northern Ireland captain Aaron Hughes has been ruled out of the qualifier against Latvia in Riga on Saturday 8 September.
The Fulham defender is aiming to be fit to return for the game against Iceland four days later. Hughes missed the recent 3-1 win over Liechtenstein with a knee injury from which he has yet to fully recover

geysir

02/09/2007, 2:00 PM

More bull, yet another example of ignorance of FIFA procedures by Nigel and his cohorts.
"If he plays and then Fifa deem he isn't eligible for them they could be punished and they wouldn't take the risk of losing points"
Birds of a feather dreaming together.

lopez

02/09/2007, 3:17 PM

...are you really trying to justify your espousal of the singing of partisan political songs at football matches as a means of "controlling" demand for tickets? Does this mean you feel such songs should not be sung at matches which might not otherwise sell out?

Nope. I'm sure my original opinion stands: for you to berate the owner of a private website for expressing his support for his compatriots who are fighting overseas (not the actual conflict itself, btw), when you support the singing of political songs at a public football match is pure hypocrisy.

"Football For All?" - Not when you're Lopez, it would seem...'Football for All'? Sounds like 'educashun, educashun, educashun' and other hollow slogans. The day that GSTQ is replaced is the day that the IFA can claim they are truly promoting 'football for all'.

As for us, I can't see the ticket situation getting better. Three times in the past four years, I've had to get tickets in the home end for Ireland away games. However, while no one can question your desperation to get everyone within the O6C to either play (Gibson, Kane etc.) or support (I see your doing a bit of doorstep Jehovah Witnessing on the Kane thread) NI, I'd hate to see anyone from Ireland who finds either the Soldier's Song or the Tricolour unrepresentative of their 'tradition' suffering at an Ireland game, when there are teams that play an anthem wholly representative of their tradition that they can go and watch (NI or - normally I'd say if you want to see a decent side, but as you keep banging on, there isn't much difference in the quality - England).

And that's the difference between me and Marty. Unless I'm mistaken, he wants all nationalists to support NI and no one else, while ramming his political views - including support of the military, which within your society is a subject you'd think anyone with a quarter of a brain seeking to attract nationalists to WP would avoid - down their throats. In contrast, I'm not in the business of attracting unionists to Croke Park. Not now, nor in the event that we ever need to rent fans in, like what is clearly the case with you. They'd hate it!

EalingGreen

02/09/2007, 6:27 PM

'Football for All'? Sounds like 'educashun, educashun, educashun' and other hollow slogans. The day that GSTQ is replaced is the day that the IFA can claim they are truly promoting 'football for all'.

As for us, I can't see the ticket situation getting better. Three times in the past four years, I've had to get tickets in the home end for Ireland away games. However, while no one can question your desperation to get everyone within the O6C to either play (Gibson, Kane etc.) or support (I see your doing a bit of doorstep Jehovah Witnessing on the Kane thread) NI, I'd hate to see anyone from Ireland who finds either the Soldier's Song or the Tricolour unrepresentative of their 'tradition' suffering at an Ireland game, when there are teams that play an anthem wholly representative of their tradition that they can go and watch (NI or - normally I'd say if you want to see a decent side, but as you keep banging on, there isn't much difference in the quality - England).

And that's the difference between me and Marty. Unless I'm mistaken, he wants all nationalists to support NI and no one else, while ramming his political views - including support of the military, which within your society is a subject you'd think anyone with a quarter of a brain seeking to attract nationalists to WP would avoid - down their throats. In contrast, I'm not in the business of attracting unionists to Croke Park. Not now, nor in the event that we ever need to rent fans in, like what is clearly the case with you. They'd hate it!

I have long wanted to see GSTQ replaced as the home anthem at NI games. But whilst this may have the welcome side effect of encouraging some Nationalists in NI to accept that they are genuinely welcome to support the team, that is not actually my primary motive. Rather, it is because I do not see my support for the NI football team as in some way asserting my "Britishness", rather it is much simpler: I am a football fan from NI who therefore supports the football team from NI. Consequently, I would prefer a uniquely NI anthem to reflect that.

As such, I especially deplore those few remaining "Loyalist" knuckle-draggers who insist on besmirching GSTQ with a desultory two-second "No Surrender" and would see a new anthem as worth it for frustrating them alone. However, I equally deplore those football fans from NI whose Republicanism would never allow them to recognise, never mind support, any NI team, even if GSTQ were replaced. As such, I see each as bad as the other in their insistance on allowing their politics to override their sportsmanship.

Which, in the context of the ROI, is where you come in. Were I an ROI fan, I'm sure I would be equally embarrassed and disgusted by people like you who advocate singing party political songs at ROI matches. And the fact that it is coming from some "plastic" with a cockney accent, who likes to lecture other Irishmen born and bred about what it means to be "truly" Irish(!), shouldn't make a difference, but somehow it does.

Beyond that, I really never quite understand just what the hell you are on about. What is this Jehovah's Witness reference? Why on earth would I ever want to support England? (Though I can see why you might...).

As for Marty, he merely wants everyone from NI to support the NI team. As such, I have never known him to do anything at any NI match, home or away, which could even remotely be characterised as "shoving down the throat" of anyone his personal convictions.
On the contrary, I have frequently witnessed his active campaigning against e.g. the wearing of Linfield/Rangers colours to matches, the shouting of No Surrender during GSTQ and the singing of party songs. That is because whatever his privately held views, when he is with NI the only "military" he is interested in is "The Green And White Army"

lopez

02/09/2007, 7:35 PM

I have long wanted to see GSTQ replaced as the home anthem at NI games. But whilst this may have the welcome side effect of encouraging some Nationalists in NI to accept that they are genuinely welcome to support the team, that is not actually my primary motive. Rather, it is because I do not see my support for the NI football team as in some way asserting my "Britishness", rather it is much simpler: I am a football fan from NI who therefore supports the football team from NI. Consequently, I would prefer a uniquely NI anthem to reflect that.
I couldn't care less what it means to you. I want to know how the IFA square this 'football for all' you brought up with playing GSTQ.

As such, I especially deplore those few remaining "Loyalist" knuckle-draggers who insist on besmirching GSTQ with a desultory two-second "No Surrender" and would see a new anthem as worth it for frustrating them alone. However, I equally deplore those football fans from NI whose Republicanism would never allow them to recognise, never mind support, any NI team, even if GSTQ were replaced. As such, I see each as bad as the other in their insistance on allowing their politics to override their sportsmanship.
If the IFA did all they could, then they can say, well we did our bit, that's all. Not that I'm interested in them taking our support in the O6C from us.

Which, in the context of the ROI, is where you come in. Were I an ROI fan, I'm sure I would be equally embarrassed and disgusted by people like you who advocate singing party political songs at ROI matches.
Apart from the SS, I don't sing 'political songs' at Ireland matches.

And the fact that it is coming from some "plastic" with a cockney accent, who likes to lecture other Irishmen born and bred about what it means to be "truly" Irish(!), shouldn't make a difference, but somehow it does.
Still sore about me rejecting my 'Britishness', I see. :D If someone's Irishness is a form of regionalism, I'd say it's they that's the plastic.

As for Marty, he merely wants everyone from NI to support the NI team. As such, I have never known him to do anything at any NI match, home or away, which could even remotely be characterised as "shoving down the throat" of anyone his personal convictions.
On the contrary, I have frequently witnessed his active campaigning against e.g. the wearing of Linfield/Rangers colours to matches, the shouting of No Surrender during GSTQ and the singing of party songs. That is because whatever his privately held views, when he is with NI the only "military" he is interested in is "The Green And White Army"These were not privately held views but something he chose to plaster across the top of a major NI fans forum. Maybe you can ask other Northerners on here, but I think the message was clear. Support us, but on our own terms. If he was seriously aiming to stamp out politics around NI and attract at least some nationalist support, he's shown he's either totally stupid, or that in reality he's indifferent about it.

EalingGreen

02/09/2007, 10:19 PM

as_i_say

03/09/2007, 8:14 AM

It was stupid of you to disregard. It would have saved another few column inches of drivel from being read by, argh-me..........

greendeiseboy

03/09/2007, 9:12 AM

Were any of Darrens parents or grandparents born in the Republic - if they were this would make him automatically qualified to represent us i'm sure

Paddy Garcia

03/09/2007, 9:22 AM

Were any of Darrens parents or grandparents born in the Republic - if they were this would make him automatically qualified to represent us i'm sure

I don't think so - hence the debate that is now on-going and on-going.

lopez

03/09/2007, 12:52 PM

Here's what I posted last October. It was stupid of me not to regard it. I can only pleas forgetfulness.

"Lopez,
Following another thread, I've come to realise that it's futile for me to debate any such topic with you, not just because I risk allowing myself to get drawn into endless controversy, to the nth degree of pettiness, but also because it seems to me that the style and content of your posts inevitably say more about you and your opinions than I ever could.
So by all means, keep posting, indeed keep posting in response to my posts if you like; just don't expect me to reciprocate." Ahhh, Ealing no want to play with me anymore. :(

Were any of Darrens parents or grandparents born in the Republic - if they were this would make him automatically qualified to represent us i'm sure

I don't think so - hence the debate that is now on-going and on-going.
His grandparents or great grandparents would have been born in pre partition Ireland when the country was whole (if NI is a 'country', so was pre-partition Ireland). Wasn't there something about 'historical connection' with a country in part of that FIFA rulling stuff?