Kevin Doyle

[tetsujin1979]

The point is, ROG was phoned. That's what I am saying, before the squad was announced. Of course you don't have an issue, but I know your sort, and I can be sure you would be one of those on a rugby forum jumping up and down saying disgraceful that ROG wasn't phoned or spoken to(either before squad announcement or to be let known that he was going to be dropped) bla bla.
so what if he was phoned?

[barney]

Edited

[DannyInvincible]

The article is, I'm assuming it's accurate.



Even if taken out of context, Doyle is no fool and revealing the means of his dropping or talking about it at all he would have known how the press would run with that. In the buildup to a do or die qualification week it's very poor form to try and feed the negative media with something irrelevant to the squad. My opinion has lowered of him, that's not something any team player would do.

So, you're blaming Doyle for the press twisting his words and loading undue significance onto something he mentioned in passing? Actually, you're going as far to question Doyle's pedigree as a team player? I think you're being grossly unfair on him.

[tetsujin1979]

presumably Ward was informed by text he wasn't in the squad either.

where's the fury at the disrespect shown to him??

[Colbert Report]

Ward is a very poor player by international standards. Doyle has been a mainstay in the team for many many years now. That's why there is outrage.

[Charlie Darwin]

So only the best players deserve phone calls? Communication is only poor if the player being communicated with has reached a certain standard of performance? Trap's communication with players is obviously poor but this is a complete non-issue.

[Colbert Report]

So only the best players deserve phone calls? Communication is only poor if the player being communicated with has reached a certain standard of performance? Trap's communication with players is obviously poor but this is a complete non-issue.

When did Ward take over for Kilbane? It really wasn't that long ago. Doyle has been a first choice player since when, 2006?

[Charlie Darwin]

So what? He'll be back in the next squad. People are so melodramatic.

[barney]

In my view, every player dropped from the original 29 should have gotten a call. Whether it's Ward, Doyle or anyone else. You can't have one rule for one and one for another. Particularly based on something as subjective as their ability or even on how long they've been in the squad.

Trap got it wrong in my view. Not disastrously wrong but wrong nonetheless. Coming on the heels of so many spats with players, it's hard to see how anyone can say that there aren't issues with his style.

[Fixer82]

A phonecall should be made.
But that's not to say that if a player is unceremoniously dumped by text he should be bitching about it.
I've never heard any of the Rugby lads moan when they were dropped, and you can guarantee they were furious.
Shows a slight lack of class and composure to give out when dropped.

I disagree with him being dropped and I disagree with letting people know by text but...take it like a man!
Can't imagine, either, if Kevin Moran had been dropped in the early 90s he would have 'expressed his disappointment' with a newspaper

[Dodge]

Can't imagine, either, if Kevin Moran had been dropped in the early 90s he would have 'expressed his disappointment' with a newspaper

Didn't Doyle say it to his club website (something Moran would never have had to face) and the journalists just ran with it?

[DannyInvincible]

A text is more personal than a fax to the player's club; like how it was done in the oul' days...

[barney]

A text is more personal than a fax to the player's club; like how it was done in the oul' days...

Yeah but that doesn't make it right.

How many people were on here defending Roy Keane and his views and would share your view above? Personally, I detest Keane but he was looking for higher standards from the FAI. This is an example of it for me. Whether they used to find out in the newspaper, on teletext or by fax doesn't make texting right. Let's not just look for "ah tis better than the old days" if the old days were crap and now we are just less crap.

I'm not having a go at you Danny because I don't know your personal views but it's typical of this country to talk the talk about higher standards but when it comes to doing something about it, settling for second/third/fourth best.

30 mins of Trap's time is all this would have taken. It would have helped his relationship with those players when he does call them back in. That's good management with an eye on the consequences of your immediate actions and an eye on the longer term. It's a small thing but he got it wrong and has given the media another stick to beat him with.

[Fixer82]

Didn't Doyle say it to his club website (something Moran would never have had to face) and the journalists just ran with it?

I still think a player should be cute enough to say 'no comment' or something like 'i always want to play for my country and will continue to do everything i can to get back into the squad'.

A player making a comment about how he is disappointed not getting a phonecall can easily get tisted by the media.
Kevin got off lucky in fact. The media could have really given this legs if they wanted.
Imagine Darron Gibson or Stephen Kelly had made the same statement

[DannyInvincible]

Trap informed Doyle of his omission from the final cut by text, but that's not to say he will be in touch with the player within the next couple of weeks to discuss future plans and the like. He will no doubt be in contact with Doyle again, where they can discuss matters together if necessary. Doyle isn't a pressing matter at this exact moment in time. I don't mean for that to sound dismissive of Doyle's tremendous commitment either, but, at the moment, the focus for Trap must be on the team he has selected for a crucial World Cup qualifier. That's this Friday evening, in case this "scandal" has caused it to slip from anyone's mind...

I'm not defending Trap's method in the sense of it being "at least better than the old days"; I'm defending it because it's adequate and succinct, irrespective of what procedures were utilised in the past. It communicates the message sufficiently. Doyle knows what is required of him already in order to get back into Trap's selection and once he does that, it will be appropriate for Trap to discuss plans and other things in greater detail with him. People are complaining that a text is cold and impersonal. It's not at all, especially if one considers the norm of either sending a fax in the past, or even not contacting a player who hasn't been selected at all. A text can be entirely professional. If anything, Trap has done more than what is required of him in this instance.

It's just such a non-issue, I find it hard to believe people are allowing it to provoke them.

[barney]

Trap informed Doyle of his omission from the final cut by text, but that's not to say he will be in touch with the player within the next couple of weeks to discuss future plans and the like. He will no doubt be in contact with Doyle again, where they can discuss matters together if necessary. Doyle isn't a pressing matter at this exact moment in time. I don't mean for that to sound dismissive of Doyle's tremendous commitment either, but, at the moment, the focus for Trap must be on the team he has selected for a crucial World Cup qualifier. That's this Friday evening, in case this "scandal" has caused it to slip from anyone's mind...

I'm not defending Trap's method in the sense of it being "at least better than the old days"; I'm defending it because it's adequate and succinct, irrespective of what procedures were utilised in the past. It communicates the message sufficiently. Doyle knows what is required of him already in order to get back into Trap's selection and once he does that, it will be appropriate for Trap to discuss plans and other things in greater detail with him. People are complaining that a text is cold and impersonal. It's not at all, especially if one considers the norm of either sending a fax in the past, or even not contacting a player who hasn't been selected at all. A text can be entirely professional. If anything, Trap has done more than what is required of him in this instance.

It's just such a non-issue, I find it hard to believe people are allowing it to provoke them.

We'll agree to disagree so.

I know what you're saying but I think Trap could have handled it better. In a vacuum, people naturally assume the worst and a text sort of creates a vacuum in my view because Doyle (and the others) don't really have a chance to respond. Even if that's only for a short time and Trap contacts them later, those feelings can fester and become a problem.

That notwithstanding, it is being blown up by people pursuing an agenda.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm sure Trap didn't text incognito. Doyle has Trap's number too if he feels a response is necessary or appropriate. That wouldn't be out of line, would it?

[barney]

I'm sure Trap didn't text incognito. Doyle has Trap's number too if he feels a response is necessary or appropriate. That wouldn't be out of line, would it?

You certainly don't want to be having that sort of communication via text in my opinion. Too open to misinterpretation.

The onus, for me, is also on Trap to ensure that it is communicated in the best way possible so that, even if Doyle disagrees with the decision and thinks it's completely wrong, he can have no gripe with the manager who has had the balls and courtesy to make the effort to explain it to him.

As a manager, I think that's his duty.

[DannyInvincible]

I don't see why Trap should be under any duty to explain the reason for their omission to omitted players. In fact, one could say the reason might be already pretty obvious and implicitly communicated by the very fact of the omission itself; that the player in question isn't performing well enough to merit a place in the squad. Doyle could always reply via text and request and phone discussion. There's no reason to assume that Trap wouldn't be willing to accommodate such a request from someone he values as a player. That would be assuming that Doyle had taken issue with Trap's method in the first place. Do we know for certain that Trap hasn't actually spoken to Doyle in greater detail since anyway? He at least specified to the media that he has future plans for Doyle, so there's no doubt they will be in communication in the near future.

[barney]

I don't see why Trap should be under any duty to explain the reason for their omission to omitted players. In fact, one could say the reason might be already pretty obvious and implicitly communicated by the very fact of the omission itself; that the player in question isn't performing well enough to merit a place in the squad. Doyle could always reply via text and request and phone discussion. There's no reason to assume that Trap wouldn't be willing to accommodate such a request from someone he values as a player. That would be assuming that Doyle had taken issue with Trap's method in the first place. Do we know for certain that Trap hasn't actually spoken to Doyle in greater detail since anyway? He at least specified to the media that he has future plans for Doyle, so there's no doubt they will be in communication in the near future.

The reason he should explain it is because he is going to recall those players at some stage. If he has p!ssed those players off now (which he appears to have done), then he may not get as much out of them in the future. You can say that's not very professional from them but it's human nature. He's paid to manage and in my opinion, that's part of management.

He has also given the media a big stick to beat him with and the FAI too if they want to. The media have blown it out of proportion but he has a history of communication issues - why feed that monster for the sake of 30 minutes?

Trap hasn't done anyone any favours here - least of all himself. He hasn't managed this situation well.

I'm a defender of his but he should have handled this better.

[osarusan]

hmmmm...

I'm sure Trap didn't text incognito. Doyle has Trap's number too if he feels a response is necessary or appropriate. That wouldn't be out of line, would it?
+

Doyle could always reply via text and request and phone discussion. There's no reason to assume that Trap wouldn't be willing to accommodate such a request from someone he values as a player.
≠

but, at the moment, the focus for Trap must be on the team he has selected for a crucial World Cup qualifier. That's this Friday evening, in case this "scandal" has caused it to slip from anyone's mind...

[paul_oshea]

so what if he was phoned?

Exactly, I don't care I don't think he needs to.

Whereas I was pointing out that I bet if Kidney hadn't phoned ROG, he would be one of those on a rugby forum going disgraceful blah de blah.

I don't think Doyle should be worried about the text, he should be worried about what he needs to do to get back in, and I think that is limited whilst playing at Wolves.

[geysir]

Exactly, I don't care I don't think he needs to.

Whereas I was pointing out that I bet if Kidney hadn't phoned ROG, he would be one of those on a rugby forum going disgraceful blah de blah.

I don't think Doyle should be worried about the text, he should be worried about what he needs to do to get back in, and I think that is limited whilst playing at Wolves.

Actually you made one of the most bizarre arguments ever made on Foot ie.

Paul "Oh ya, but Kidney was right to phone ROG no doubt about his exclusion murfinator.
Keep your argument consistent and people will respect your opinion a lot more."

Murf "I don't recall commenting on ROG's exclusion let alone having an issue with the communication method."

Paul "Of course you don't have an issue, but I know your sort, and I can be sure you would be one of those on a rugby forum jumping up and down saying disgraceful that ROG wasn't phoned or spoken to(either before squad announcement or to be let known that he was going to be dropped) bla bla"

[paul_oshea]

"I sent a message to Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, all players. I can't call all players because you stay out (of the squad) or not. It's normal.

what I've picked up and no one else noticed is this and also yesterday from Trap as well, why would they be texting Duff?

Geysir, you must have seen some pattern in murfinators posts? No?

[SwanVsDalton]

what I've picked up and no one else noticed is this and also yesterday from Trap as well, why would they be texting Duff?

I presumed he was talking about past instances when he texted players as opposed to people he texted about this squad.

[paul_oshea]

But when would he have texted Duff to say you aren't in the squad? Because that was what he was referring to in that quote.

Ya, I suppose again its just a misunderstanding leading to poor communication?

[DannyInvincible]

If he has p!ssed those players off now (which he appears to have done), then he may not get as much out of them in the future.

Which players has be ****ed off? Doyle said he was disappointed not to make the squad; he didn't explicitly say he was ****ed off with Trap or his methods of communication so we shouldn't put words in his mouth.


hmmmm...

+

≠

If Doyle is so distraught about receiving a text - and there's no indication that he is - I'm sure Trap could find a few moments to allay his concerns, be that this week, next week or within the next month. I didn't say he needs to set the time aside before Friday. Trap could set the time aside for him after next Tuesday if unable to do so before Friday. He'll be in touch with him in the future anyway. I just don't think the whole issue is that big of a deal. Daft stuff over which to be getting in a tizzy and certainly not big enough of a deal to be getting caught up about apparent contradictions in my posts! :p

[barney]

Which players has be ****ed off? Doyle said he was disappointed not to make the squad; he didn't explicitly say he was ****ed off with Trap or his methods of communication so we shouldn't put words in his mouth.





That's why I said "seems". Whether he is p!ssed or not, I'm sure he'd feel better about the situation if he'd had the courtesy of a call rather than text.

[SkStu]

Actually you made one of the most bizarre arguments ever made on Foot ie.

Paul "Oh ya, but Kidney was right to phone ROG no doubt about his exclusion murfinator.
Keep your argument consistent and people will respect your opinion a lot more."

Murf "I don't recall commenting on ROG's exclusion let alone having an issue with the communication method."

Paul "Of course you don't have an issue, but I know your sort, and I can be sure you would be one of those on a rugby forum jumping up and down saying disgraceful that ROG wasn't phoned or spoken to(either before squad announcement or to be let known that he was going to be dropped) bla bla"

This made me laugh :D

[SkStu]

A couple of observations...

In the list of charges against Traps tenure this is low down the list. Somewhere between not learning the language (really people?) and his choice of attire for the euros.

Is text the ideal form of communication for this sort of decision? Probably not, you're not supposed to dump chicks by text these days.
Is it the most practical and consistent way? Probably.
Does a great servant to the team and a good lad like Doyle deserve an exception over the likes of Ward and other less established players? I think that argument could be made.
Am I just glad that Trap is actually communicating and informing players instead of saying nothing as he has done in the past? You bet.
Does any of this really matter? No way.
Did Doyle deserve to be dropped? Yes.

[shakermaker1982]

It's surely just common courtesy?

At least get an FAI official to ring particularly if a text went like this

'Kevon, you OUT. Need to show personality. Chow'

[gastric]

I have always appreciated employers who ring you up when you miss out on a job to explain their decisions and where you might improve in your next interview. it is employers like this that I always feel I would like to work for. Trap's lack of communication skills and the alienation of players are an ongoing issue in the team and IMO texting players about being dropped and not answering the obvious question of why and offering reassurance to them, is why he needs to go asap. Trap out!

[SwanVsDalton]

But when would he have texted Duff to say you aren't in the squad? Because that was what he was referring to in that quote.

Ya, I suppose again its just a misunderstanding leading to poor communication?

I'm just assuming along those lines. It's Trap style to just allude generally to examples of when he's done something in the last five years. My reading is he was referring to him texting senior players about squad matters.

Btw I'm presuming the FAI is picking up the bill for Trap's mobile contract and its allowance of 4,000 texts per month. Fortune.

Trap out.

[tetsujin1979]

I'm just assuming along those lines. It's Trap style to just allude generally to examples of when he's done something in the last five years. My reading is he was referring to him texting senior players about squad matters.

Btw I'm presuming the FAI is picking up the bill for Trap's mobile contract and its allowance of 4,000 texts per month. Fortune.

Trap out.Or it's being absorbed by their main sponsors, 3 networks.
This isn't unheard of, When o2 were sponsoring Arsenal, they paid for Reyes' calls to Spain

[SwanVsDalton]

Or it's being absorbed by their main sponsors, 3 networks.
This isn't unheard of, When o2 were sponsoring Arsenal, they paid for Reyes' calls to Spain

I really wasn't expecting a serious response to that but I appreciate getting one! FAI would need to offload the costs - the roaming charges would off the scale.

[gastric]

Poor Kevin!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/doyle-must-take-pay-cut-to-seal-parkhead-switch-29279607.html

[Charlie Darwin]

Celtic no longer interested. Wolves look for £2-3 million: http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/wolverhampton-wanderers-latest-future-sylvan-4022219

[Crosby87]

Celtic Interested again.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/momentum-building-on-celtics-pursuit-of-irelands-kevin-doyle-29441725.html

[Stuttgart88]

Didn't Trap say something quite dismissive of Doyle in the Wales squad announcement? Something like "we know about x, y and z but we have better players now". I took it to read that Sammon is now quite a bit ahead of Doyle in Trap's thinking.

I think he'd be good at Celtic and Celtic would be good for him, keeping him in the public eye. Hooper is on his bike so there's an opening for him.

[p2011]

How Sammon can be rated ahead of Doyle is beyond me, even considering that Doyle has had a year to forget. Doyle has 12 goals, which is an okay return for his 50+ caps considering the thankless battering ram task he is given. I just don't see what Sammon has to offer. He looks like a target man so he makes us even more likely to play pointless long balls, which has been our problem now for years. We need to get away from that game.

I think if someone like Doyle had been brought on for an obviously knackered Sammon after 70 minutes against Austria to hold up the ball and do some pressing (both of which Sammon had stopped doing), we'd be in sole 2nd place in the group now. And say if Hoolahan had come on to hold up the ball, and/or Green's energy for Whelan's lack of it instead of Green being stuck out right.... Anyway, rant over.

Celtic would be good for Doyle. Hopefully get a few goals in the SPL, get some Champions League games. He's been a good servant to us, seems a sound fella and not nice to see him in League 1 with Wolves.

[Sullivinho]

I just don't see what Sammon has to offer. He looks like a target man so he makes us even more likely to play pointless long balls, which has been our problem now for years. We need to get away from that game.

'Looks' being the operative word. The fella of course doesn't choose himself but he has nothing to offer at international level. If Trap honestly believes this guy belongs in an Ireland shirt and (less important though more amusing) the English premier league, (http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Trapattoni-Derby-County-duo-Premier-class/story-19241907-detail/story.html) it would reflect a sad deterioration in both his judgement and our chances of success. I suspect however, that everything is working just fine in the auld fella's noggin and the truth is that no matter the false compliments and positive psychology, he really believes we're a limited, middling bunch whose only chance of making it relies on the system he's prescribed for us, of which the long ball is a key feature. Hence Sammon, the bogus 'big man'.

[Crosby87]

I haven't heard long balls discussed like this since the first time Cox was brought into the squad.

[Serb]

He looks like a target man so he makes us even more likely to play pointless long balls, which has been our problem now for years. We need to get away from that game.

The irony here is that he's absolutely atrocious as a target man. Robbie Keane won more headers than Sammon did in the friendly -vs- Spain a month or two ago, something Keane is not exactly noted for. Long and Doyle are far better. There's no way Sammon could score the kind of goal Long got against England. His strengths apparently lie in the fact that he's got a deft touch for a big lad (which I don't agree with, he's not particularly tall for a start). He's basically a big bag of fail and the sooner we get rid of him the better.

However, I think the real issue here is that Doyle hasn't been playing well for a year anyway, and Trap is looking for someone who can head the ball to replace him. The answer definitely isn't Sammon.

[Crosby87]

So you believe we would be sort of swimming upstream if we pick Conor?

[tricky_colour]

If it's mating season most definitely.

[p2011]

@Sull/Serb: Exactly... I used the word "looks" very deliberately. You would think he was a target man, and the opposition manager probably thinks he is a target man too. I'd rate him behind Long, Keane, Walters, Doyle, Cox.... so I don't know how he's starting games for us. Like I said, his presence encourages hoofing and we need to get away from persistent hoofing.

If we are to persist with this nonsense of putting strikers on the wing and if Keane is undroppable no matter what our formation, then I'd sooner see the likes of Doyle or even Long providing agressive running and a bit of goal threat from the wing (which is supposedly Trap's thinking in playing the static Walters or Cox there). If it wasn't for Doyle's agressive run down the left and good cross in Kazakhstan that created the penalty and then for his winner, this campaign would have been dead in the water from the start.

For what it's worth, I'd like to see something like:

Long
Winger-Hoolahan-Winger
McCarthy-CM
Wilson-O'Shea-CB-Coleman
Forde

Winger: we have decent options here with McGeady,McClean, Brady, Pilkington etc... so there's no need for strikers there who offer nothing.
CM: Ideally Gibson, alternatively one of Andrews, Whelan at a push, Meyler, Hendrick...
CB: could be Dunne, SSL, R.Keogh, O'Dea...

That team could mix Irish directness and agressiveness with a bit of football ability. And we'll need a bit of possession if we're to get anything from Vienna and Cologne in autumn and hang on to unlikely leads or hold out for draws. Are we supposed to go to those places with long ball 4-4-2s and get results, Trap?

But of course Trap is convinced that we can't play football and STILL hasn't tried out a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 (call it what you will) in any sensible way from the start of a friendly despite 3 friendlies and the game against the weak Faroes recently. (I also don't understand why we need Pilkington to try out a new formation, this sounds like a Trap red herring.) With Trap's 4-4-2, we manage to look outgunned in midfield even against the likes of Armenia and Georgia when they go down to ten men. And I thought you hired Italians for clever tactics and defensive stability...

[DannyInvincible]

'Wolves refute Celtic have bid for Kevin Doyle': http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc/2013/07/30/wolves-refute-celtic-have-bid-for-kevin-doyle/


Wolves today dismissed speculation that they have turned down a £500,000 bid from Celtic for Kevin Doyle.

A report in Ireland today claimed the offer for the 29-year-old striker was rejected by Molineux chiefs.

Head coach Kenny Jackett said: “There is no information or approaches on Doyle.

“During the summer there have been rumours in the papers but we’ve got nothing concrete at the moment and Kevin is a Wolves player.”

Doyle returned to full training yesterday after recovering from a flu bug over the weekend.

The Ireland international hasn’t played all summer but Jackett added: “He may well be in our plans for Preston.”

[ArdeeBhoy]

Celtic fans aren't keen...

Doyle also been linked with Leeds due to the McDermott connection. Though his current wages may exclude them both?

[Serb]

Despite his form over the past season, 500k is a bargain for a player of his quality.

[Charlie Darwin]

Wolves must be regretting not getting £5m for him 2 years ago (then again I suppose it was worth the risk).