2021 Season , Arrivals and departures

[2 Year Contract]

While on the subject of transfers, Conor Kearns has moved to Galway United from St Patrick's Athletic.

He didn't play a league game for Pats last year, it seems Brendan Clarke was voted their POTY.

Very happy with that signing, we have two very good young goalkeepers in Kearns and Kevin Horgan now. Both Premier Division quality really. Good competition.

Good signing for Galway. Tough season for Kearns last year with the league being cut in half, League Cup and Leinster Senior Cup abandoned, as well Clarke's form making him more or less immovable in the league. He didn’t help himself in the one game he did play in the FAI Cup, gifting a goal to Harps with an error that won the game for them. He looked very uncomfortable with the ball at his feet in that game as well as the friendly games he played but if he can get a run in the team and get back to his UCD form he'll be one of the best keepers in the first division next season in my opinion

[Nesta99]

Ultimately the buck stops with the board of every club. If a manager does poorly with that budget, then they're usually out the door.

You seem to have a dislike of Caulfield which is colouring your opinion of him. To be honest, it's far from me defending our manager, I'll be honest I was never a huge fan of Caulfield, I found him gruff, I think people went OTT about how poor his football was, but he was more direct. But I always begrudgingly respected how well he did with Cork City, and where he took them from when he took over. He's a winner. It's interesting you touch on the resources at his disposal, I'd be surprised if he ever worked with the same budgets as Dundalk did, Cork struggled to keep pace with Dundalk, and when there was huge cutbacks at the club after they had that poor season, they were always going to fall off. Peak6 are billionaires and they can afford a blip here or there like this season when Dundalk weren't ever really in the hunt.

I think anyone that says that Caulfield isn't a top manager in League of Ireland terms is a bit deluded or has a dislike of him. You can't deny what he has achieved at Cork City. Next season will be difficult for us, Shelbourne look like the favourites, but I think Caulfield will be worth a lot of points to us compared to the relatively inexperienced manager Shelbourne have in Ian Morris. We need to go up, whether that's through winning the league or the play-offs.

Oh I dont think its any secret that I disliked Caulfield and not for his footballing tactics, his dive against Waterford had more influence than his football philosophy. Caulfield had his moments, played to certain strengths but failed to adapt and evolve so therefore was limited as a coach and the clock was always ticking toward implosion. Signing players that never fitted his style was wasteful and ultimately divisive among supporters and within the club. Arrogance meant that Caulfield pushed the boat out, coupled with a weak board who feared rejecting his demands, didnt call his bluff, destroyed the pride of Cork City FC - its ownership model and killed off the core principle of Foras. Its very easy to say the buck stops with the Board, a club man like Caulfield should have been less self serving and arrogant with the club he allegedly loved and 'insisted' on a damaging budget, gambling with the clubs future.

I dont know what Dundalk's supposed resources have to do with it to be honest except that his pride meant that he couldnt take a step back and cut his cloth. The signings subsequently made with the largest budget he did have, weakened his hand tbh. He suits working off limited resources and maximising what he has. He put one team together won a Double but then Roddy Collins won a double a year after ending up in a relegation play-off and had some of the historically impressive European results in LoI - Is he a top manager? As for Dundakl not being in the hunt this season, thats true but Im sure JC would have taken 3rd place in the league qualifying for Europe, EL Group stages and an FAI Cup as a blip! I have no doubts he will get Galway promoted and climb the premier league table thereafter but he will hit a ceiling unless he too has developed as a coach from his experiences. Im sure Lisa Fallon is a loyal individual but I dont see her learning too much more from a one trick manager!

Kevin Horgan must have improved as a keeper too to call him a premier league quality though he was only a kid previously and hardly had a shining mentor in Tomer Chencinski and getting 1st team senior football regularly has to help. If he is the real deal we can watch him over the next couple of seasons and take him to Oriel!

[Olander]

Oh I dont think its any secret that I disliked Caulfield and not for his footballing tactics, his dive against Waterford had more influence than his football philosophy. Caulfield had his moments, played to certain strengths but failed to adapt and evolve so therefore was limited as a coach and the clock was always ticking toward implosion. Signing players that never fitted his style was wasteful and ultimately divisive among supporters and within the club. Arrogance meant that Caulfield pushed the boat out, coupled with a weak board who feared rejecting his demands, didnt call his bluff, destroyed the pride of Cork City FC - its ownership model and killed off the core principle of Foras. Its very easy to say the buck stops with the Board, a club man like Caulfield should have been less self serving and arrogant with the club he allegedly loved and 'insisted' on a damaging budget, gambling with the clubs future.

I dont know what Dundalk's supposed resources have to do with it to be honest except that his pride meant that he couldnt take a step back and cut his cloth. The signings subsequently made with the largest budget he did have, weakened his hand tbh. He suits working off limited resources and maximising what he has. He put one team together won a Double but then Roddy Collins won a double a year after ending up in a relegation play-off and had some of the historically impressive European results in LoI - Is he a top manager? As for Dundakl not being in the hunt this season, thats true but Im sure JC would have taken 3rd place in the league qualifying for Europe, EL Group stages and an FAI Cup as a blip! I have no doubts he will get Galway promoted and climb the premier league table thereafter but he will hit a ceiling unless he too has developed as a coach from his experiences. Im sure Lisa Fallon is a loyal individual but I dont see her learning too much more from a one trick manager!

Kevin Horgan must have improved as a keeper too to call him a premier league quality though he was only a kid previously and hardly had a shining mentor in Tomer Chencinski and getting 1st team senior football regularly has to help. If he is the real deal we can watch him over the next couple of seasons and take him to Oriel!It's disingenuous to mention Roddy in the same breath as Caulfield.

When you look at what he achieved with Cork City, where they were when he took over, Tommy Dunne had taken them as far as he could and Caulfield turned them into title challengers, they always ran an unbelievably strong Dundalk side close, or got the better of them. He brought them to another level and there was a real buzz around the club, which was reflected in their attendances. He won more than just a double in his time with Cork. A one trick pony brought Cork City to the next level, and he had a decent record against Stephen Kenny, particularly at Turner Cross.

Yes Horgan has improved, he's a very good keeper'. Promising, but still plenty to learn. I'm not sure he fits the brief for a Dundalk signing now, a fella from an obscure country, playing in a league that's rated lower than the League of Ireland :)

[Martinho II]

I imo always rated JC as a serious mgr. Dont forget that CC were on their knees when he took them over after Tommy Dunne got them promoted. It wasnt by any fluke that Cork City won the league and reached so many FAI Cup finals.
Imo it says a lot that the likes of LK and LF decide to rejoin their former boss at Galway. If I was a betting man I would go for Galway to win the 1st Div for this coming season.

[Neish]

It's disingenuous to mention Roddy in the same breath as Caulfield.

When you look at what he achieved with Cork City, where they were when he took over, Tommy Dunne had taken them as far as he could and Caulfield turned them into title challengers, they always ran an unbelievably strong Dundalk side close, or got the better of them. He brought them to another level and there was a real buzz around the club, which was reflected in their attendances. He won more than just a double in his time with Cork. A one trick pony brought Cork City to the next level, and he had a decent record against Stephen Kenny, particularly at Turner Cross.

Yes Horgan has improved, he's a very good keeper'. Promising, but still plenty to learn. I'm not sure he fits the brief for a Dundalk signing now, a fella from an obscure country, playing in a league that's rated lower than the League of Ireland :)

And financially ruined them in the process, hence the Roddy comparison.

Ps. Cork did their best to throw away that 2017 title, they were lost without MaGuire. Had 4 or 5 attempts before they finally clinched the title.

[sbgawa]

Rovers owe maguire big time for preventing the 4 in a row. Apparantly when he comes back from uk he plans tonsign for rovers. Life long dream

[ToberonaTornado]

Is this Change guy any good lads?

[MU1889]

We (Glenavon) have signed:

- Calvin Douglas (ex-Athlone midfielder/right-back, briefly)
- Craig Hyland (ex-Rovers, Waterford, Longford goalkeeper)
- Gareth McCaffrey (ex-Rovers, Drogheda, Athlone forward)

Anyone able to give information as to what they're like as players, and indeed if they are any good?

[Nesta99]

It's disingenuous to mention Roddy in the same breath as Caulfield.

When you look at what he achieved with Cork City, where they were when he took over, Tommy Dunne had taken them as far as he could and Caulfield turned them into title challengers, they always ran an unbelievably strong Dundalk side close, or got the better of them. He brought them to another level and there was a real buzz around the club, which was reflected in their attendances. He won more than just a double in his time with Cork. A one trick pony brought Cork City to the next level, and he had a decent record against Stephen Kenny, particularly at Turner Cross.


Yes Horgan has improved, he's a very good keeper'. Promising, but still plenty to learn. I'm not sure he fits the brief for a Dundalk signing now, a fella from an obscure country, playing in a league that's rated lower than the League of Ireland :)

Is it really? Caulfield started off with the job he always wanted I suppose, and technically he has never been relegated either. But time will tell as we see how he does at Galway and initially it will be progressive. He has repeated one trend already and thats to spend on a big squad (in 1st Division terms) and quite a sizable backroom team also. Are Galway to go ft also, I vaguely recall the suggestion? It's ambitious, its being bank rolled by the Comer Group but that in itself will bring pressure - something that JC hasnt coped with in the past. Galway may not be the bookies favourites but their intent is clear and that is promotion. If it doesnt come together then like every other big spending club (even in relative terms) expectation will be high at board level and with the money men. Bar 2017 when it was a comprehensive if ultimately laboured getting the title over the line Dundalk were stretched playing on different fronts and yet cup finals went to extra time and penos - a lottery with a does of luck like Hoare's goal ths year. Dominant champions do slip up in cup finals as per the last 2 years as examples but can happen in one off games. I wonder will Galway pursue the tactic of never tackling and be outraged when the opposition does? Find another Seanie as a sticking plaster and it might extend the initial progress!

The recent Dundalk signings are certainly risky at face value and a concern, could be ingenious or conversely a disaster. Young promising keepers showing consistent ability in senior games will be on the radar unless this new guy is the real deal.

I dont think he is a bad manager, I think he is limited. Not unlike Tommy Dunne can bring a team on but then plateau and decline in the efforts to halt a slide. Getting rid of flair players for players that will go through rather than play around opposition was he default and he pointed the finger at those players as scapegoats also and seemed to generally demotivate his players - supposedly his strength was motivation. Showed inexperience at that level so maybe he has learned since.

[joey B]

Andre Wright not going back to Bohs,signing with Ayr United instead.......

[thebronze14]

Still the reigning First Division cup champions too.

Aesthetically that trophy was as pleasing as the World Cup or Champions League trophies. Gargantuan in size also. That day remains the worst rendition of Amhrain na bhFiann in a football ground. Think of someone holding an old Nokia up to a microphone with a home made polyphonic ringtone of the national anthem playing

[2 Year Contract]

Henry Ochieng who was with Cork last season has joined Watford (yes I’m not missing an ER after the T). I’m sure most players in the LOI are currently wondering who his agent is and how do they make him their agent

[Neish]

Aesthetically that trophy was as pleasing as the World Cup or Champions League trophies. Gargantuan in size also. That day remains the worst rendition of Amhrain na bhFiann in a football ground. Think of someone holding an old Nokia up to a microphone with a home made polyphonic ringtone of the national anthem playing

FFS lad, a night we won one of the few bit of silverware at the club and you find something to moan about. Finn Harps FC : Maybe we like the misery

[El-Pietro]

Henry Ochieng who was with Cork last season has joined Watford (yes I’m not missing an ER after the T). I’m sure most players in the LOI are currently wondering who his agent is and how do they make him their agent

The announcement is that hes signed specifically for U23 side, but yeah Watford. Bizarre. He was one of our better players last season but we were terrible so thats not much of a compliment.

[2 Year Contract]

We (Glenavon) have signed:

- Calvin Douglas (ex-Athlone midfielder/right-back, briefly)
- Craig Hyland (ex-Rovers, Waterford, Longford goalkeeper)
- Gareth McCaffrey (ex-Rovers, Drogheda, Athlone forward)

Anyone able to give information as to what they're like as players, and indeed if they are any good?

Have never heard of Douglas. Hyland was a very poor backup keeper with Rovers from what I saw, I remember one game he played against Pats at Tallaght and spilled a Forrester shot that was straight at him into his own net and later in the game missing the ball while trying to clear it which resulted in Morgan Langley rolling it into an empty net. Though he was young then as it was in 2015 so he may have improved since then at amateur level. McCaffrey had decent potential at Drogheda but found goals hard to come by in a struggling side. Since he dropped down to St Mochta's he’s been absolutely banging in the goals I believe and is considered one of the best strikers in the country at amateur level. Could do well up there

[2 Year Contract]

The announcement is that hes signed specifically for U23 side, but yeah Watford. Bizarre. He was one of our better players last season but we were terrible so thats not much of a compliment.

Ah that would make more sense! Still a hell of a lot of better players in the league that would love that opportunity I’m sure

[MU1889]

Have never heard of Douglas. Hyland was a very poor backup keeper with Rovers from what I saw, I remember one game he played against Pats at Tallaght and spilled a Forrester shot that was straight at him into his own net and later in the game missing the ball while trying to clear it which resulted in Morgan Langley rolling it into an empty net. Though he was young then as it was in 2015 so he may have improved since then at amateur level. McCaffrey had decent potential at Drogheda but found goals hard to come by in a struggling side. Since he dropped down to St Mochta's he’s been absolutely banging in the goals I believe and is considered one of the best strikers in the country at amateur level. Could do well up there

Thanks for that rundown.

Hyland has been signed as the number 1 goalkeeper, as our current keeper Jonny Tuffey is leaving at the end of the season, having refused a new 3-year deal, and is unlikely to play for the club again. Hopefully he will have improved enough since his Rovers days to at least be a competent IL shot-stopper.

While our two main forwards have been in reasonable form, neither of the second-choice strikers have really been challenging for a first team spot. One has went on loan to Carrick Rangers, and the other, ex-Sligo flop Greg Moorhouse, has been fairly poor since he returned to the club and will probably leave in the summer. That will be why we've brought McCaffrey in. Looks to have notched a few goals in the First Division a couple of years ago, and has an excellent record in the LSL, so he could be a shrewd signing for us.

Douglas is probably the most unknown quantity, he's been brought in because one of our centre-mids, Sammy Clingan, has received an injury that will likely bring forward his retirement, having just turned 37. We have three decent centre-mids in Michael O'Connor (not that one), Robbie Garrett and Matthew Snoddy so he might just be a squad player to begin with.

[Longfordian]

Hyland was ok for us but that was a good while ago and we were a pretty poor side at the time.

[Martinho II]

What club was Craig Hyland at before he moved to Glenavon?Theres a huge amt of ex loi stars playin there now Conan Byrne for starters. Hyland was GK for us in Tony Cousins early days in charge of us.

[Charlie Darwin]

We (Glenavon) have signed:

- Calvin Douglas (ex-Athlone midfielder/right-back, briefly)
- Craig Hyland (ex-Rovers, Waterford, Longford goalkeeper)
- Gareth McCaffrey (ex-Rovers, Drogheda, Athlone forward)

Anyone able to give information as to what they're like as players, and indeed if they are any good?
Hyland and McCaffrey would both be decent First Division/lower Premier Division players, but both decided to drop out of league football to pursue jobs. McCaffrey in particular was always a handy striker in the First Division.

Douglas is a bit different as he had a short stint in the league but has played most of his career in amateur football and not the highest level either, but that's more due to the politics of Dublin football. He'd be decent enough in the First Division here but not sure if he could make the step up to IL.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

What club was Craig Hyland at before he moved to Glenavon?Theres a huge amt of ex loi stars playin there now Conan Byrne for starters. Hyland was GK for us in Tony Cousins early days in charge of us.

St Mochtas

[pineapple stu]

Dundalk sign Sam Stanton from Phoenix Rising and, before that, seven seasons in the Scottish second tier (and was then released when his side got promoted).

While I think we have to acknowledge the Scottish second tier stronger overall than the LoI, but still, it's another signing where it's hard to see how it'll enable Dundalk to significantly kick on.

[oriel]

Not sure I'd agree Scottish Championship is higher standard than LOI overall, top 4 or 5 in our PD would easily compete with those clubs, and prob bottom 3 or 4 in SPL too. Stanton played over 75 games for Dundee Utd, who are a bigger club than probably any of ours, and Hibs before this, I think at 26 and being an attacking MF, its a good addition for Dundalk. He also turned down an offer from Ross County (SPL), so lets see what he's like.

[pineapple stu]

Honestly I think that's slightly delusional. £500k prize money for the league winners alone dwarfs anything we get here, and the average attendance is 50% higher than here too, so there's way more money there. Maybe Rovers or Dundalk with Euro money would be competitive, but Bohs/Sligo/Waterford? No. Dave McMillan was a consistent LoI scorer for a number of seasons and yet didn't make an impact even in the third tier (injuries didn't help, but still).

(I'm aware that then wouldn't tie in with my view that it's not a stand-out signing for Dundalk - I guess I'm coloured in my view by the success of most of the previous foreign signings)

[Nesta99]

Well Gary Twigg came in from Brechin City and that was really underwhelming and he ended up a top signing. A bit of that and this will be god for Dundalk but it also could add to the hit or miss trend of signings too.

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, that's fair.

[littlebray]

What club was Craig Hyland at before he moved to Glenavon?
He started with Bray U20s in 2008 & 2009, and then dropped to LSL (Crumlin, Newbridge) before his first Rovers stint. Then Longford, an abortive contract with Crusaders, Waterford and Rovers this time including European competitions on his CV. Some sources note a "career break" after he left Rovers, but he then signed with LSL side St Mochtas in 2018 and that was his last club before Glenavon.

[Calcio Jack]

Well Gary Twigg came in from Brechin City and that was really underwhelming and he ended up a top signing. A bit of that and this will be god for Dundalk but it also could add to the hit or miss trend of signings too.

Not a like for like comparison - Michael O’Neill came first to us ; he knew all about Twigg and persuaded the Rovers board to back his judgement and to raise money needed by selling Ger O’Brien to Derry for €20k..... one of the few decisions the Rovers board got right during the MON era

[DCWA]

Gary Twigg was also not too long before turned down by Derry after a trial (I think by Stephen Kenny) that included one friendly appearance against Dunboyne, a 10-1 victory that included 5 Twigg goals.

I think plenty on this forum have long been delusional in their comparison of LOI to SPL (and by extension the Scottish Championship). The reality is over a proper period of competition it is likely we are way off and even the very best sides we have had would struggle significantly in the SPL.

[Nesta99]

No signing is going to be like for like. The point stands though - it could be a master stroke signing or consigned to the slapdash transfer policy of recent. Maybe Magilton has been tracking this lad!?

[vinnie]

I've seen McCaffrey play several times, he is a confidence player, if he doesn't get the ball he always looks like a child without a sweet, but if he gets service he will be a very good signing, I always though he never got a fair go at Rovers, but i Never seen him in training so cant be 100%, I think the lad could be a hit, his movement is very good but at the time he was in a poor Rovers side, I think attitude might be a problem with him though, so if yer manager can mollycoddle him a bit, he could be a great signing

[Nesta99]

Gary Twigg was also not too long before turned down by Derry after a trial (I think by Stephen Kenny) that included one friendly appearance against Dunboyne, a 10-1 victory that included 5 Twigg goals.

I think plenty on this forum have long been delusional in their comparison of LOI to SPL (and by extension the Scottish Championship). The reality is over a proper period of competition it is likely we are way off and even the very best sides we have had would struggle significantly in the SPL.

Its always an interesting discussion imo but an impossible one to conclude. A lot of it is to do with the potential to be able to hold our own at whatever level. Another angle is that IF we were in a situation where LoI sides were competing regularly against top and second tier Scottish sides then we'd be reaping the sort of financial rewards they get also. The 2016 Dundalk side I think could have surprised a few and playing at a particular level lets you rise to that level also. In general the ways teams are so organised at any level means there are not as many gimmes as there used to be for or against - The FA Cup intrigues for that very reason albeit genuine shocks are rare.

[nigel-harps1954]

Dundalk sign Sam Stanton from Phoenix Rising and, before that, seven seasons in the Scottish second tier (and was then released when his side got promoted).

While I think we have to acknowledge the Scottish second tier stronger overall than the LoI, but still, it's another signing where it's hard to see how it'll enable Dundalk to significantly kick on.

For what it's worth, Mark Russell of Finn Harps has over 100 league appearances in the Scottish Championship with Greenock Morton and Falkirk, and reckons Finn Harps are at a similar standard to that of Scottish Championship but that the football here is a little bit more technical than that of what he was used to and it took him time to adapt to it when he first came over.

[Nesta99]

Id imagine that players wouldnt broadcast that they were stepping down a level if thats what they were thinking but Russell wouldnt be on his own when making such an observation. There tends to be some surprise when players do move in from outside LoI. Adorjan said that he was really surprised by the technical ability of the players (I think he was mainly referring to Dundalk at that point) but that the pace at which the game was played was shock and that thats what he had to adapt to. He also said that it was a bit more physical and he found referring frustrating in it inconsistency. Conversely, how well Jamie McGrath is doing in Scotland, probably better than at Dundalk, would be somthing of an indication that if there is a difference it isnt massive. Of course we can cherry pick examples for and against. If Conor Salmon can be a reasonably prolific striker in Scotland and carve out a career there then for me that indicates that Scottish football is barely LSL!! and Trappatoni rated him and we know what he thought of Irish players ;p

[pineapple stu]

I could see that technically, the LoI is slightly better alright.

But I think the failure of LoI clubs to make any impact in the Scottish Challenge Cup does tell a better story as it involves direct comparison. Bohs' 1-0 win over fourth tier Peterhead in 2018 is the only time an LoI side has beaten a senior team in the competition. In the same time, LoI sides have lost to Elgin City, Falkirk, Motherwell U21s, Airdrie and Stenhousemuir. It wouldn't make a great league record.

Yes, LoI sides don't always take the competition seriously, but it's still a fairly bad record.

[Nesta99]

I could see that technically, the LoI is slightly better alright.

But I think the failure of LoI clubs to make any impact in the Scottish Challenge Cup does tell a better story as it involves direct comparison. Bohs' 1-0 win over fourth tier Peterhead in 2018 is the only time an LoI side has beaten a senior team in the competition. In the same time, LoI sides have lost to Elgin City, Falkirk, Motherwell U21s, Airdrie and Stenhousemuir. It wouldn't make a great league record.

Yes, LoI sides don't always take the competition seriously, but it's still a fairly bad record.

Looking at European head to head wouldnt indicate a massive gulf over the years, even more so if excluding the Old Firm and even there, particularly Shels imploded in one of the more recent games (Pats scared Celtic that time too?). But even results outside the Glasgow too against any European side dont scream out as being massively better. Throw in Gretna for entertainment value! I think this comes up every preseason in the vacuum of little LoI news along with WORST LEAGUE STANDARD EVER!! I wonder if it werent for the finances generated by the Old Firm via tv deals in the main, how much overall infrastructure would have progressed as it did. The few Ibrox disasters would have had a hand in driving improvements on health and safety similar to the Taylor Report in England. If LoI had progressed even to the levels of IL on ground developments it would be nip and tuck between LoI and most Scottish football outside their top tier. Maybe a lot of that impression is due to better prep and professionalism on the playing side of things over the last decade or so. Prior to that teams did generally ok until the last half hour and collapsed - so not a lack of ability and more the old school methods of training, nutrition etc.

[pineapple stu]

You would wonder what effect summer football has on our European performances. I think its impact is overstated, but it's still there. So you take St Johnstone being knocked out of Europe by Trakai in 2017/18 - but that was a month before their season started. Trakai then beat Derry last year (aet, and in a home leg only because of covid), but Derry were in mid-season and had had time for any new signings to settle.

It's a question that'll never really be answered of course - hence why it's so fun for forums like here!

[DCSIL]

Ethan Boyle released by Linfield. Return to Harps?

[MattB11]

Sligo have signed Walter Figueira

[Nesta99]

You would wonder what effect summer football has on our European performances. I think its impact is overstated, but it's still there. So you take St Johnstone being knocked out of Europe by Trakai in 2017/18 - but that was a month before their season started. Trakai then beat Derry last year (aet, and in a home leg only because of covid), but Derry were in mid-season and had had time for any new signings to settle.

It's a question that'll never really be answered of course - hence why it's so fun for forums like here!

I do think summer football has helped in Europe simply for fitness and match sharpness. When having to play preliminary rounds, when those games are the first competitive games of the season, it had to be a negative. We'll never know for sure unless we could get the exact same team playing the exact same opposition in both winter and summer formats and see how thing go but of course will never happen. Form/confidence comes in to it like Dundalk's performance v Qarabag compared to Linfield or hwo we Played against Celje compared to Molde (knocking out Celje), if we had put in like for like performances we may have gotten past Celje though that would have thrown a spanner in the luck of the draw to the EL groups. Ifs and buts throughout!

On the non playing side of summer football, while I enjoy the novelty of a game under the lights early and late season, I dont think my toes have ever thawed from January nights in Oriel Park. The occasional crisp night time game is grand but I far prefer the milder and sometimes balmy evening in July of the summer season!!

[Nesta99]

Ethan Boyle released by Linfield. Return to Harps?

If only Rovers had held out he could have returned as a younger and cheaer player than Gannon...we could do with some young experienced cover ourselves!

[oriel]

There is no doubt the SPL is miles better than LOI, but as we have discussed top 2 (not top 4 or 5 that I said before, I take that back) would compete with all bar old firm. The Scot Championship gets much bigger tv revenue hence bigger prize money, not sure that is much better than our PD, would prob be on par for most of our teams.

On euro performances, Pats drew with Celtic** away, Bohs knocked out Aberdeen, but prob 20 years ago now, Shels came close with Kilmarnock in the 90's and also they were 3-0 up 'away' to Rangers, all in the 90's.

I do remember one season not too long ago, when Rangers were on a low, they were beaten by a Lux side, and into r2, there were more LOI teams v SPL in Europe, but all one off's, and overall SPL as I said a far better standard.

** Dundalk v Celtic 1979 (2-3 and 0-0) - that was the one which could have made things tasty, last 16 of old EC. A a 1-0 home win would have done it for Dundalk, when 19k of the 22k at the game claimed to be behind the town goal to see Tommy Mc miss his 'sitter' which on replay in Jimmy McGee's 'once in a lifetime' show was actually not as close as all thought, still it was a good chance.

[pineapple stu]

Those old games don't count for much these days in fairness.

I could see Rovers competing that I think about it - although that's in part cos of the Euro money, which they'd lose if they suddenly found themselves in the Scottish second tier. Dundalk also get good European money of course and I suppose how well they'd do depends on how decent (or not) their new squad is. The 2016 vintage would probably do quite well alright

[Bucket]

I think Scotland is miles ahead of us. How many full-time players are in the LOI? Actual full-time players, 52 weeks of the year, no other job on the side. Would Scottish Leagues 1 and 2 be fully pro?

[pineapple stu]

Don't think so. Some, but not most. The bigger clubs who shouldn't really be there, like Falkirk - are probably pro. East Stirling in their worst years were on £10/week

[DCSIL]

Don't think so. Some, but not most. The bigger clubs who shouldn't really be there, like Falkirk

Falkirk are where they deserve to be, maybe lower.

Some Championship teams are still Part time but the bottom two divisions certainly are.

[pineapple stu]

They deserve to be there, sure, but they still shouldn't really be there. Same as Cork deserve to be in the First Division, but shouldn't really be there. They're too big for that.

Three years ago, only Brechin and Dumbarton were part-time in the championship - .https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43936932 Brechin got four points all season. Dumbarton were also relegated, 17 points off safety. Brechin in particular is an extreme example, but still, it's a struggle being part-time in that division

[Nesta99]

Those old games don't count for much these days in fairness.

I could see Rovers competing that I think about it - although that's in part cos of the Euro money, which they'd lose if they suddenly found themselves in the Scottish second tier. Dundalk also get good European money of course and I suppose how well they'd do depends on how decent (or not) their new squad is. The 2016 vintage would probably do quite well alright

Speak for yerself UCD fan, those games are part of the lifeblood of local club legend!! ;) Meh its not all about euro money now that Rovers have sold out to D-Des and Dundalk having P6 on the books!

[pineapple stu]

Fairy nuff so - UCD would survive in the Premier League cos we only lost 1-0 to Everton over two legs :)

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Speak for yerself UCD fan, those games are part of the lifeblood of local club legend!! ;) Meh its not all about euro money now that Rovers have sold out to D-Des and Dundalk having P6 on the books!

Have P6 put in any money?