Shay Given

[pineapple stu]

Am I the only one not that upset about Shay's recall?

Did very well on loan at Middlesbrough earlier this year. Clearly has some ability still. Yes, he's 38 and not getting his game for Villa, but we're not blessed with keepers, and if they're good enough, they're old (or young) enough.

Goes without saying that he should only be called up on merit.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm ok with Given's recall. Keogh over the other options isn't a good call though. Delaney and McShane better options. Clark can't complain having missed the May / June games.

I have a feeling that Pearse's good performance alongside O'Shea against Italy elevated him above Keogh and the others and is first back up behind Wilson. So while I don't agree with the choice I'm not convinced this particular selection will haunt us. That's the glass half full view anyway.

Overall I'm underwhelmed by O'Neill's selections and public comments so far. Hopefully the next two games will do the talking for him.

[DannyInvincible]

Shay denies having made a first-team place a condition of his return: http://thescore.thejournal.ie/shay-given-ireland-return-2-1648860-Sep2014/?utm_source=facebook_short


I wouldn't be here if I didn't think I was definitely sharp enough to play. I don’t know, [Martin's] not said what his plans are, there's no guarantee and there’s no demands from me. I read somewhere that I've demanded to play – that’s all rubbish. I’m here to try to help the group and try to get us qualified.

O'Neill says he will most likely bring three keepers to Georgia and will decide who starts close to kick-off on Sunday.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Doesn't inspire confidence.
Sorry, Shay's past it, probably...

[tetsujin1979]

Given speaks about his return to the squad: http://vimeo.com/104927020

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/given-has-little-time-to-convince-in-lifeless-recall-30560712.html

Given has little time to convince in lifeless recall.

[OwlsFan]

Not sure what that recall was all about but sends wrong signal to other keepers in the squad. I had a lot of time for Given until he let us down in Euro 12 by playing when he obviously was not fit or on his game.

[geysir]

If the goalkeeping standard keeps dropping, then we can say the recall of Givens had no positive effect.
If on the other hand there is an improvement, then we can say the recall of Givens did not make things worse.
Imo, I can't see how the recall of one of our truly class players will be a detriment to the squad and to the other goalies.
He will only play in Georgia if he's in better form than what we already have.

[SwanVsDalton]

Not sure what that recall was all about but sends wrong signal to other keepers in the squad. I had a lot of time for Given until he let us down in Euro 12 by playing when he obviously was not fit or on his game.

If Given played and he shouldn't have, that's on the manager. Given wasn't that far from fitness, and he was hardly going to rule himself out of a major championship. His form had been a problem for a while.

Even with hindsight of his performance, I still wouldn't have dropped him for the Euro. And I definitely wouldn't have expected him to pipe up and say, "Actually, you know what? I'm feeling a bit squiffy, think I'll head home".

Emotive statements like 'let us down' about a guy who simply wanted to play for his country, and was then selected, really crumbles my biscuit.

[Charlie Darwin]

If Given played and he shouldn't have, that's on the manager. Given wasn't that far from fitness, and he was hardly going to rule himself out of a major championship. His form had been a problem for a while.

Even with hindsight of his performance, I still wouldn't have dropped him for the Euro. And I definitely wouldn't have expected him to pipe up and say, "Actually, you know what? I'm feeling a bit squiffy, think I'll head home".

Emotive statements like 'let us down' about a guy who simply wanted to play for his country, and was then selected, really crumbles my biscuit.
Compare to the vitriol McAteer got after he admitted he struggled through a fitness test to play at the 2002 World Cup. I think people selectively criticise, particularly when figures like Roy criticise players for playing too many games.

[SwanVsDalton]

Compare to the vitriol McAteer got after he admitted he struggled through a fitness test to play at the 2002 World Cup. I think people selectively criticise, particularly when figures like Roy criticise players for playing too many games.

I didn't realise he had got a lot of vitriol, but that would have been wrong to. Who can blame McAteer for being desperate to play? In the end, McCarthy picked him off the back of advice from the medical staff. The sentimentalist in me would have argue he deserved a chance to prove his fitness after Holland.

[paul_oshea]

There is a bit more with the McAteer one though, its not like for like really. Good auld triggs. I wonder does he still support Ireland.

[tetsujin1979]

he was at the game on Wednesday night: https://twitter.com/MCATEER4/statuses/507665784681005056

Great to catch up with my good friend and absolute legend Paul McGrath at @FAIreland (https://twitter.com/FAIreland) game last night
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwuXV1sIUAAJBny.jpg

[Charlie Darwin]

There is a bit more with the McAteer one though, its not like for like really. Good auld triggs. I wonder does he still support Ireland.
What more was there to McAteer? He was hurt, he kept a straight face through the pain of a fitness test and was taken off early as he couldn't do it anymore. He was widely slated for jeopardising our chances.

[pineapple stu]

If the goalkeeping standard keeps dropping, then we can say the recall of Givens had no positive effect.
If on the other hand there is an improvement, then we can say the recall of Givens did not make things worse.
Imo, I can't see how the recall of one of our truly class players will be a detriment to the squad and to the other goalies.
True. Though while - recent controversies aside - Givens has to be classed as one of our truly class players, it's hard to see what a 65-year-old ex-forward is going to bring to the squad in nets?

[jbyrne]

There is a bit more with the McAteer one though, its not like for like really. Good auld triggs. I wonder does he still support Ireland.

yes. follow him on twitter and his picture is of his post holland goal celebration. tweets about the ireland team a bit

[Wangball]

I still think I'd rather see a younger guy like Lawlor brought along as 3rd keeper than Shay in the squad. It would benefit the squad more in the long term.

[geysir]

I still think I'd rather see a younger guy like Lawlor brought along as 3rd keeper than Shay in the squad. It would benefit the squad more in the long term.
Maybe it would have a long term benefit, maybe not. The idea of Given in the squad now has its plusses which far outweigh speculative negatives about hidden messages and future prospects.
Other questions around Shay's motives and unfounded accusations do amount to a form of begrudgery.

[Charlie Darwin]

What if Lawlor turns out to be nowhere near good enough in the long run? Then you've just had a passenger all along instead of somebody who can help the squad.

[OwlsFan]

If the goalkeeping standard keeps dropping, then we can say the recall of Givens had no positive effect.
If on the other hand there is an improvement, then we can say the recall of Givens did not make things worse.
Imo, I can't see how the recall of one of our truly class players will be a detriment to the squad and to the other goalies.
He will only play in Georgia if he's in better form than what we already have.

I have seen Kieren Westwood play and he looks good to me (no claims of bias please). Given WAS a truly class player, but if he still was, he'd be playing regular football and he hasn't for 2 years now. I am not sure if he even gets on the bench these day. Every class player has his day. The evidence would seem to suggest Shay's are behind him.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd tend to agree but by all accounts he was very impressive at Midlesborough last year and his arrival coincided with a good defensive record and run of results. I think.

[DannyInvincible]

If Given played and he shouldn't have, that's on the manager. Given wasn't that far from fitness, and he was hardly going to rule himself out of a major championship. His form had been a problem for a while.

Even with hindsight of his performance, I still wouldn't have dropped him for the Euro. And I definitely wouldn't have expected him to pipe up and say, "Actually, you know what? I'm feeling a bit squiffy, think I'll head home".

Emotive statements like 'let us down' about a guy who simply wanted to play for his country, and was then selected, really crumbles my biscuit.

Have to agree. Playing Shay was ultimately Trap's call. What player is ever going to rule himself out of his last major finals? And if Shay was able to pass the fitness test, then maybe the test wasn't testing or stringent enough. Once again, not Shay's fault that he'd try his absolute best to pass it. It's up to the team doctor/medical staff to pass players fit.

Even so, I still would have favoured Shay at 90 or 80 per cent fitness than a fully-fit Forde or Westwood.


There is a bit more with the McAteer one though, its not like for like really. Good auld triggs. I wonder does he still support Ireland.

Doesn't he often attend games? He was on my flight over from Liverpool last time I was over. Why wouldn't he still support Ireland?

[geysir]

I have seen Kieren Westwood play and he looks good to me (no claims of bias please). Given WAS a truly class player, but if he still was, he'd be playing regular football and he hasn't for 2 years now. I am not sure if he even gets on the bench these day. Every class player has his day. The evidence would seem to suggest Shay's are behind him.
Westwood is injured isn't he, not much use having an injured player in the squad And if Westwood was back to his previous best he probably would be the nr 1 and all that does not negate the value of having Given back in the squad. There is space for 3 goalies. It would appear that MON appreciates having Given around and he has something to offer even if he's past his best. Atm it's a choice between Given and Forde to play against Georgia.

[DannyInvincible]

I have a feeling Forde will start tomorrow. I think it'd be too radical a move by the management for Given to suddenly come back in to the starting line-up and usurp Forde for a competitive fixture. Martin and Roy would surely realise how much a psychological blow this would be for the other keepers in the squad. Plus, Roy's notes in the match programme mid-week would seem to jar with Given potentially starting after having been out of first-team action for so long. Given's presence in and around the squad may well be more as a charismatic figurehead and experienced morale booster.

[tetsujin1979]

Doesn't he often attend games? He was on my flight over from Liverpool last time I was over. Why wouldn't he still support Ireland?
so you're saying he doesn't attend away games? not a real fan.

[Charlie Darwin]

so you're saying he doesn't attend away games? not a real fan.
He'd never get on YBIG.

[tetsujin1979]

He'd never get on YBIG.
probably only mates with people who post here

[Charlie Darwin]

Starts for Villa in the Cup today against Leicester, where they've just gone 1-0 up.

[tetsujin1979]

fantastic save in the first half

[Charlie Darwin]

And the second

[Charlie Darwin]

Won man of the match.

[tricky_colour]

Just caught the end of the match and saw the saves, the first one in particular was top draw.

[DannyInvincible]

Super save, this:

http://giant.gfycat.com/BeneficialNaturalGiantschnauzer.gif


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym2xsya5bXs

[Olé Olé]

Was Guzan injured? I'm trying to find out here through the match previews. I hope he wasn't. I hope Tim Sherwood picked Shay over him. Although that could worryingly suggest that Lambert and Given didn't enjoy the best relationship.

Either way, it's an interesting month before the Poland game. With Westwood on form and Given, potentially, getting a run of games it could be troublesome for David Forde. Forde should be safe though. He was bordering heroic against Germany and has been quite solid in general.

[tetsujin1979]

Was Guzan injured? I'm trying to find out here through the match previews. I hope he wasn't. I hope Tim Sherwood picked Shay over him. Although that could worryingly suggest that Lambert and Given didn't enjoy the best relationship.

Either way, it's an interesting month before the Poland game. With Westwood on form and Given, potentially, getting a run of games it could be troublesome for David Forde. Forde should be safe though. He was bordering heroic against Germany and has been quite solid in general.not sure, Guzan was on the bench. Given has played all the cup games for Villa this season

[Charlie Darwin]

Sherwood didn't pick the team and Shay has played all the cup games so far, so this is the expected selection. Still, Sherwood strikes me as the type who'll just pick whoever he thinks is better regardless of age/chairman's instructions, so that may well be Shay.

[Olé Olé]

Sherwood didn't pick the team and Shay has played all the cup games so far, so this is the expected selection. Still, Sherwood strikes me as the type who'll just pick whoever he thinks is better regardless of age/chairman's instructions, so that may well be Shay.

Oh, I see.

As a complete aside, Sherwood was at Blackburn for the whole duration of Shay's time there. Probably the only player in the dressing room he's had a prior working relationship with- even though Given wasn't first choice and was young.

[dr_peepee]

Wouldn't be surprised if he kept his place. Big Ron said before that he sometime replaced keepers for a period with under performing teams, just to shake things up if there was no feasible outfield changes available. Even if the dropped keeper wasn't necessarily culpable.

[DeLorean]

Yeah and I think there's an even stronger possibility that Given will keep his place because he's simply better. Guzan has his moments but in the main I think he's fairly average for that level, I don't think he'd earn his team as many points as Given would.

[Stuttgart88]

Having a month of good EPL form behind him would surely catapult him into the team for Poland.

[DeLorean]

Not a bad run of games for Villa between now and then...


February 2015




Competition
Fixture
Date
Kick-off




Premier League
Aston Villa (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/aston-villa) V Stoke (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/stoke-city)
Sat 21 Feb
15:00




Premier League
Newcastle (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/newcastle-united) V Aston Villa (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/aston-villa)
Sat 28 Feb
15:00




March 2015




Competition
Fixture
Date
Kick-off




Premier League
Aston Villa (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/aston-villa) V West Brom (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/west-bromwich-albion)
Tue 3 Mar
19:45




FA Cup - Sixth Round
Aston Villa (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/aston-villa) V West Brom (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/west-bromwich-albion)
Sat 7 Mar
15:00




Premier League
Sunderland (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/sunderland) V Aston Villa (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/aston-villa)
Sat 14 Mar
15:00




Premier League
Aston Villa (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/aston-villa) V Swansea (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/swansea-city)
Sat 21 Mar
15:00

[nigel-harps1954]

Starts again today in FA Cup against West Brom. Live on BBC 1

[the 12 th man]

Had a good game today,quick off his line when needed.

[DeLorean]

Given effed Clark out of it about ten minutes from the end for putting the ball out for a corner, presumably instead of heading it back to him. I thought Given was out of line as Clark definitely took the safer option, something he's been guilty of not doing in the past. Some Grealish lad got sent off for two yellows after coming on a sub. Villa won 2-0 and are off to Wembley. Sherwood the savior.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-jack-grealish-could-8783009

Sherwood thinks this Grealish fellow might play for England.

[tetsujin1979]

I'd like to remind everyone there's a rule about posting anything about Grealish other than "played/scored/booked/sent off for Villa"

[Charlie Darwin]

That dive was atrocious, though.

[SwanVsDalton]

Given effed Clark out of it about ten minutes from the end for putting the ball out for a corner, presumably instead of heading it back to him. I thought Given was out of line as Clark definitely took the safer option, something he's been guilty of not doing in the past.

Actually think Clark was giving off to Given for not coming to collect, and Given was telling him to chill out, he did the right thing. Clark was the unhappy one, Shay got defensive but seemed to be telling him just to be cool.

[Stuttgart88]

That dive was atrocious, though.
I can't decide in whether he dived or not. I think it depends on who he declares his international allegiance to.

[Stuttgart88]

Actually think Clark was giving off to Given for not coming to collect, and Given was telling him to chill out, he did the right thing. Clark was the unhappy one, Shay got defensive but seemed to be telling him just to be cool.I'd start both against Poland.