Shane Ferguson

[awec]

We haven't taken any players from you. They are individuals free to make their own decisions.

Anyways Shane Ferguson has yet to commit himself to either team.
Well, however you want to phrase it, if Ferguson changes allegiance he will be the best player to have done so.

[BonnieShels]

We haven't taken any players from you. They are individuals free to make their own decisions.

Anyways Shane Ferguson has yet to commit himself to either team.

In fairness its not like that pedantry was needed, awec and NB are hardly Ealing Green or Gather Round.

[BonnieShels]

Calling in the middle of the night and just leaving a no-talking, heavy breathing message...

That vision reminds me of that scene in Burn After Reading where Brad Pitt's character tries to blackmail John Malkovich's. Well this is more inept.

[Predator]

I think Ferguson is the best player you have got off us yet. :(

None of the rest you have taken have really bothered me, but this guy is actually good.They're all quite good actually. International standard, at least.

[ifk101]

In fairness its not like that pedantry was needed, awec and NB are hardly Ealing Green or Gather Round.

It wasn't meant to be pedantic. Part of the issue is the perception of NI born players being "poached" by the FAI which is incorrect. Players chose to represent the FAI of their own accord.

I don't have any issues with either EalingGreen or Gatherround (Not Brazil and awec for that matter as well) posting their opinions although I would generally struggle to read the entirety of EG's posts. :)

[Charlie Darwin]

More "cutting edge" eligibility reporting from the Belfast Telegraph, I see.

"Fifa rules include a clause allowing players to change nationality once before they play a senior competitive match if they were born "on the territory of the relevant association".

The Good Friday Agreement of 1998 provided for Northern Ireland-born people to claim either British or Irish nationality."

That really does journalism a disservice - it's patently obvious they simply don't have a clue.

:bulgy:
They must be paid by the word. Adding "Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement" to every article is probably worth around the price of a packet of fags each time.

[The Fly]

NI poised to lose Devine and Ferguson to the Republic (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13424369.stm?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

[Predator]

In fairness I can sympathise. Ferguson could pick up the phone at least and tell him what's going on, even though it seems obvious at this point. I'd feel it was poor form if it was an ROI player ignoring Trap - not that he'd ever call anyone ;).Don't invest too much faith in Worthington or the IFA. It's entirely likely that Ferguson has told Nigel his intent, and that Nigel doesn't like what he hears. He could be calling Ferguson to try to persuade him against switching. I can think of a few who have had similar treatment.

[Predator]

"It needs to be more black and white - to put all the indecision to bed once and for all,"

Where is the confusion and indecision, Nigel?
I suspect his head was buried deep in the sand when the CAS announced their decision.

[DannyInvincible]

More "cutting edge" eligibility reporting from the Belfast Telegraph, I see.

"Fifa rules include a clause allowing players to change nationality once before they play a senior competitive match if they were born "on the territory of the relevant association".

The Good Friday Agreement of 1998 provided for Northern Ireland-born people to claim either British or Irish nationality."

That really does journalism a disservice - it's patently obvious they simply don't have a clue.

:bulgy:

Staggering. I really wouldn't have thought there were so many different ways of getting something so completely wrong, but they keep doing it every time. I suppose that's an achievement of sorts.

[co. down green]

It's entirely likely that Ferguson has told Nigel his intent, and that Nigel doesn't like what he hears. He could be calling Ferguson to try to persuade him against switching. I can think of a few who have had similar treatment.

Nail on head Predator

Good to see young Devine finally joining the Ireland set-up, it's a bit overdue after attending the FAI u19 training camp early last year

[geysir]

"It needs to be more black and white - to put all the indecision to bed once and for all,"

Where is the confusion and indecision, Nigel?
I suspect his head was buried deep in the sand when the CAS announced their decision.
I'd also suspect it's partly a manager's myopia about sound decisions that make their job more difficult and about life outside their football radar.
And partly it's the engrained planter mentality that can't adjust to the climate of abolition.

[awec]

If rumours are to be believed then Ferguson is not declaring for you because he is an ROI fan but rather he is cheesed off at Worthington for repeatedly overlooking him (I would be cheesed off myself if I were in his situation).

Ferguson said as recently as January that he had no intention of joining the ROI and would rather fight for his spot in the NI senior squad, but what has happened between then is that he has been left out of a squad against Scotland whenever we had a LOT worse players than him playing for us and also Johnny Gorman got a cap in a competitive game against Serbia despite Ferguson playing at a higher level than Gorman.

[DannyInvincible]

If rumours are to be believed then Ferguson is not declaring for you because he is an ROI fan but rather he is cheesed off at Worthington for repeatedly overlooking him (I would be cheesed off myself if I were in his situation).

Ferguson said as recently as January that he had no intention of joining the ROI and would rather fight for his spot in the NI senior squad, but what has happened between then is that he has been left out of a squad against Scotland whenever we had a LOT worse players than him playing for us and also Johnny Gorman got a cap in a competitive game against Serbia despite Ferguson playing at a higher level than Gorman.

He does happen to be an Ireland fan though, as far as I know. If he felt any sense of allegiance to NI, he would have put up with it, surely? Besides, he's more likely to say that as saying he'd rather play for Ireland because he's Irish would, no doubt, have him branded as "sectarian scum" by certain NI fans.

[awec]

He does happen to be an Ireland fan though, as far as I know. If he felt any sense of allegiance to NI, he would have put up with it, surely? Besides, he's more likely to say that as saying he'd rather play for Ireland because he's Irish would, no doubt, have him branded as "sectarian scum" by certain NI fans.

Well he has never come out and said he is a NI fan (despite claims to the contrary) but rather he has said he wants to play for us. I don't know though about putting up with it, if I was in his situation and Ireland was the team I supported and NI the team I played for I'd be seriously considering my position if I was continually overlooked by the manager and worse players were getting called up ahead of me.

The reason the Ferguson situation is different from all the others is that to date all of Ferguson's remarks have been of him saying he wants to play for NI and that he has no intention of joining the ROI. Something has obviously changed that opinion and in my book it's Nigel Worthington.

[DannyInvincible]

Fair enough. It does appear that Worthington is rapidly losing the faith of the NI support, if not considered a complete dud already.

[awec]

Well, he lost my backing a long time ago. Our games are bordering on chores now.

[gastric]

Sure what are we all arguing about on here. The Queen loves us now just as much as you Northeners. Maybe now we can become one big happy family and put the little CAS thing behind us!

[Eminence Grise]

Steady on, old chap. I''m all for being one happy family and all that, but some of the media coverage of her visit would be enough to tip us back into the bosom of the Empire... We could end up being poached as a nation, with Worthington replacing Il Trap!

<Gulp> I think I finally understand what Paisley meant when he said nevurrh, nevurrh, nevurrrrrhhh...

[mark12345]

Sure what are we all arguing about on here. The Queen loves us now just as much as you Northeners. Maybe now we can become one big happy family and put the little CAS thing behind us!

To fans north and south an open question/statement on the day that the Queen of England visited the Republic.

It has to be said that with the troubles gone more or less, catholicism well, not what it once was south of the border, and passage between Dublin and Belfast easier than ever, are there any excuses anymore for not having an all ireland team?

[Charlie Darwin]

How about the tens of thousands of people who support the Northern Ireland football team? An all-Ireland team would be nice but you have to understand why reasonable people (i.e. not OWC nuts) who support their team wouldn't want to give it up, since in effect an all-Ireland team would be an expansion of the Republic side.

[DannyInvincible]

To fans north and south an open question/statement on the day that the Queen of England visited the Republic.

It has to be said that with the troubles gone more or less, catholicism well, not what it once was south of the border, and passage between Dublin and Belfast easier than ever, are there any excuses anymore for not having an all ireland team?

Some will argue it will dilute their identity - which is a fair enough concern - but I would have thought it sits oddly when simultaneously accusing the FAI of supporting "Footballing Apartheid in Ireland" or when claiming to be just as Irish as anyone else on the island of Ireland.

As it happens, I don't think FIFA's rules would permit it anyway:


10. Admission
1. Any Association which is responsible for organising and supervising football in its country may become a Member of FIFA. In this context, the expression "country" shall refer to an independent state recognised by the international community.

[The Fly]

How about the tens of thousands of people who support the Northern Ireland football team?

Seconded, and is the only thing that matters.

[DannyInvincible]

I agree. Not that I was saying all NI fans engage in what appears to me as somewhat of a contradiction, nor would such apparent contradictions necessarily compromise their wish for a separate entity to represent an identity they clearly feel is in some way distinct from our own anyway. I wouldn't espouse a forced merging of the two associations even if it was permitted by FIFA - if they want a separate team, fair enough - nor do I suspect would the FAI, but the suspicion that the FAI are actively trying to dismantle the IFA bit by bit and force them into an all-Ireland association against their will isn't an all that uncommon one. In fact, I've read suggestions that there is no doubting that round-the-table discussions on what the best strategy would be to take in order to pursue this lofty aim frequently take place in the murky backrooms of FAI headquarters. Crazy but true.

[ArdeeBhoy]

How about the tens of thousands of people who support the Northern Ireland football team?

An admirable sentiment. But what about the rather greater numbers forced into a country they didn't ever want to be part of....

Perhaps if their views had been suitably noted, we would never have arrived at the position of two teams on the same small island.

[Sullivinho]

Worthington frustrated as two more starlets opt for Republic. (http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/worthington-frustrated-as-two-more-starlets-opt-for-republic-154959.html)

Nothing new really except for the off-topic footnote that the away game against Andorra in October is likely to be played in Barcelona.

[Charlie Darwin]

An admirable sentiment. But what about the rather greater numbers forced into a country they didn't ever want to be part of....

Perhaps if their views had been suitably noted, we would never have arrived at the position of two teams on the same small island.
They weren't forced into Northern Ireland for footballing reasons. The fact is that Northern Ireland exists, Northern Irish people make up a distinct nationality and the people of Northern Ireland have a football team that they've maintained for decades. That football team can only be dissolved with their consent and if they don't want to give up their football team then more power to them.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except they don't have a 'distinct' nationality. They're either British or Irish by nationality. But I've a feeling we might just have covered that, 'ad nauseum'.
:rolleyes:

I accept they have a team, by an accident of history and the nuances of FIFA politics, but it's little to do with nationality.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well, like you said, it's been covered ad nauseam.

[gastric]

I believe they added a new line to the British National Anthem up North - God Save the Queen - from Republicans!

[Not Brazil]

It has to be said that with the troubles gone more or less, catholicism well, not what it once was south of the border, and passage between Dublin and Belfast easier than ever, are there any excuses anymore for not having an all ireland team?

You're a bit behind the times Mark.

There is a de facto all Ireland team - it is that which represents the FAI.

Perhaps it's time to put the "all Ireland" team thing to bed, and start respecting the choice of those players who choose not to play for it.

[Not Brazil]

They're either British or Irish by nationality. :rolleyes:


They are both British and Irish by nationality.

Check out the CAS ruling, and what it says about Dual Nationality.

[geysir]

The CAS ruling doesn't determine the British and Irish nationality acts, it just recognises what is already established fact.


Well, like you said, it's been covered ad nauseam.
Then you have no excuses Charlie for your misunderstanding.
There is no Northern Irish nationality. There is a Northern Irish identity.

[boovidge]

From May 2011:


“If you are born in the country you should be representing that country,” said Worthington. From March 2011: (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20110320/ai_n57113346/)


...we will continue to look at players not necessarily born in Northern Ireland, if they are going to improve our squad.Which one is it, Nigel?

[awec]

Except they don't have a 'distinct' nationality. They're either British or Irish by nationality. But I've a feeling we might just have covered that, 'ad nauseum'.
:rolleyes:

I accept they have a team, by an accident of history and the nuances of FIFA politics, but it's little to do with nationality.
Oh.. my... GOD.... http://www.onelaughhaveit.co.uk/images/smilies/1892_mad_smiley_banging_head_against_a_brick_wall. gifhttp://www.onelaughhaveit.co.uk/images/smilies/1892_mad_smiley_banging_head_against_a_brick_wall. gif

[ArdeeBhoy]

They are both British and Irish by nationality.

Check out the CAS ruling, and what it says about Dual Nationality.

Yes, the players, fair enough. Though they do need the passport.
But that's not who I was talking about.

[Dunners]

I wonder which way they would sway if Fifa decide its time for an all Britain team. Would our Union Jack waving friends come running over the border
to join hands???

Oh and if we need to be respecting the choice of those players who choose not to play for it. (FAI) Then why dont you go the whole hog and form "our wee country" Rugby team as well

[Not Brazil]

I wonder which way they would sway if Fifa decide its time for an all Britain team. Would our Union Jack waving friends come running over the border
to join hands???

Oh and if we need to be respecting the choice of those players who choose not to play for it. (FAI) Then why dont you go the whole hog and form "our wee country" Rugby team as well

Any moves towards an all United Kingdom team would be robustly resisted by Northern Ireland supporters.

Why should we form an "our wee country" rugby team?

It is now, as it always was - and the rugby chaps seem happy with they way it is, and that choice has to be respected.

[Not Brazil]

Yes, the players, fair enough. Though they do need the passport.


What differentiates players from the rest of society?

A British Passport is not required to play for the Irish Football Association - British Citizenship is ample (subject to Article 16).

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well you might just need a passport, were they to play most away games....
:rolleyes:

More seriously the debate came up on Celtic MB's about what passport a Mr.N.Lennon held.
Turns out it was a Brit one initially, but now, who knows?? Certainly touched a nerve.

[awec]

I wonder which way they would sway if Fifa decide its time for an all Britain team. Would our Union Jack waving friends come running over the border
to join hands???

Oh and if we need to be respecting the choice of those players who choose not to play for it. (FAI) Then why dont you go the whole hog and form "our wee country" Rugby team as well

Northern Ireland fans opposed the UK team that was proposed for the Olympics so not really sure what you're on about here.

Also, there's no issue with the current rugby set up, don't know why you bring that into it.


Well you might just need a passport, were they to play most away games....
:rolleyes:

More seriously the debate came up on Celtic MB's about what passport a Mr.N.Lennon held.
Turns out it was a Brit one initially, but now, who knows?? Certainly touched a nerve.

You need a passport but it doesn't have to be a british one.

Who cares what passport Neil Lennon holds? Why would this touch a nerve? What passport he holds is up to him and is nobody else's business.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I love the way you take a joke.
;)

[mark12345]

You're a bit behind the times Mark.

There is a de facto all Ireland team - it is that which represents the FAI.

Perhaps it's time to put the "all Ireland" team thing to bed, and start respecting the choice of those players who choose not to play for it.

I know it's a bit of a fantasy on my part, but it won't stop me dreaming.

When I think back (thanks to your screen name 'Brazil') to the time when the All-Ireland team played Brazil in Dublin and lost 4-3 and in reality should have beaten the then world champions, and had Derek Dougan, Pat Jennings, Johnny Giles et al wishing aloud for a team to represent the whole island one day.

When I think back to that brilliant performance by the combined best our island has to offer, and when I think of our brilliant rugby team who will keep us up late at night when we watch the World Cup with high hopes later this year.

When I think of the impeccable respect shown by Irish fans to God Save the Queen at Croke Park that day a few years ago.

When I think of our superb boxing team who has benefited from 'coming together' with a singular fight in mind and who will surely win medals at the next Olympics.

When I think of all the negativity between the two communities which, when chanelled in the right direction achieves so much.

And when I think of the legend, and one of the best players ever to grace the game, George Best, wishing that he's see an all Ireland team in his day.

When I think of all of the above I think that one day we could be standing arm in arm watching our team in a World Cup semi-final. Imagine how good we could be together. It would be something really worthwhile to give to our kids.


I HAVE A DREAM.

[Not Brazil]

Well you might just need a passport, were they to play most away games....
:rolleyes:

More seriously the debate came up on Celtic MB's about what passport a Mr.N.Lennon held.
Turns out it was a Brit one initially, but now, who knows?? Certainly touched a nerve.

A Northern Ireland player does not need a British Passport to travel to most away games - an Irish one will do fine.

What relevance is Lennon's Passport? He's a Dual National - British and Irish.

[Not Brazil]

I know it's a bit of a fantasy on my part, but it won't stop me dreaming.

I HAVE A DREAM.

Keep on dreaming about your fantasies, mo chara. No harm in that at all.

Maybe when you wake up, you'll realise that Northern Irish footballers have a choice. Respect it.

[awec]

I know it's a bit of a fantasy on my part, but it won't stop me dreaming.

When I think back (thanks to your screen name 'Brazil') to the time when the All-Ireland team played Brazil in Dublin and lost 4-3 and in reality should have beaten the then world champions, and had Derek Dougan, Pat Jennings, Johnny Giles et al wishing aloud for a team to represent the whole island one day.

When I think back to that brilliant performance by the combined best our island has to offer, and when I think of our brilliant rugby team who will keep us up late at night when we watch the World Cup with high hopes later this year.

When I think of the impeccable respect shown by Irish fans to God Save the Queen at Croke Park that day a few years ago.

When I think of our superb boxing team who has benefited from 'coming together' with a singular fight in mind and who will surely win medals at the next Olympics.

When I think of all the negativity between the two communities which, when chanelled in the right direction achieves so much.

And when I think of the legend, and one of the best players ever to grace the game, George Best, wishing that he's see an all Ireland team in his day.

When I think of all of the above I think that one day we could be standing arm in arm watching our team in a World Cup semi-final. Imagine how good we could be together. It would be something really worthwhile to give to our kids.


I HAVE A DREAM.

I think respecting God Save the Queen at a rugby game when it is being sung to represent England is one thing. When it's being sung at a football match to represent NI then that's a totally different kettle of fish in my book and it will be interesting to see the reaction at the match.

I'm not trying to stir the pot, I just think that we may be getting a little ahead of ourselves (I would have doubts about Amhrán na bhFiann being impeccably respected at the game too unfortunately).

An All Ireland team is a contentious issue. I don't think many would argue that it wouldn't increase "our" chances of qualification, but I think the major issue is could people relate to the team. Doing it for rugby is different as they have never known any different.

[Dunners]

The point is if Unionist Rugby fans can support a one team fits all approach then why do the same people have a different view when it comes to football
Maybe because middle to upper class Unionists have no problem rubbing shoulders with Nationalists in Dublin for knees up at the Rugby
But when it comes to football lets keep those working class boys at each other throats, we cant have them boys rubbing shoulders whos knows were that
would end up , Ireland United - one team, one country - oh my god

[awec]

The point is if Unionist Rugby fans can support a one team fits all approach then why do the same people have a different view when it comes to football
Maybe because middle to upper class Unionists have no problem rubbing shoulders with Nationalists in Dublin for knees up at the Rugby
But when it comes to football lets keep those working class boys at each other throats, we cant have them boys rubbing shoulders whos knows were that
would end up , Ireland United - one team, one country - oh my god

That may be some people's reasons for being against it, I think a lot of people though just like supporting Northern Ireland for what it is now, as they have done so for many years.

[Not Brazil]

The point is if Unionist Rugby fans can support a one team fits all approach then why do the same people have a different view when it comes to football


Because there never was a choice with rugby, and they're happy with the status quo?

[awec]

I imagine that the Ulster rugby team may be part of the reason why people are happy with the status quo in rugby too.