Shane Ferguson

[greendeiseboy]

Let's not go down this route of football for all seeing as it's the FAI that seeks to recruit young Catholics from the North to ensure that no Catholic players can play for the North. Hardly an embrace of any sort of cross-community scheme.

Ironically the FAI's current activities are likely to lead to a Protestant Northern team and a Catholic southern team, and the media in all their idiocy will probably blame the north when any blame will lie squarely with the FAI and their sectarian selection policy. :)

Rubbish - just because those that have come on board from the North are generally Catholic or so we're told dosent mean that the team is composed exclusively of Catholic players.

Down here most of us dont give a monkey's what religion you are or whether you're nationalist or loyalist because it dosent preoccupy or daily lives the way it does yours.

I dont know the religion or politics of my next door neighbour never mind what the affiliations of the national team players are. Bottom line is I couldnt care less.

The sooner all of ye in the North figure that one out the better for all of ye up there.

Cant understand how a nation can go through their whole existence wanting to "take out" their neighbour because of their creed or colour.

It embarrasses me when I'm abroad and people ask do the Catholic and Protestants still kill each other in Ireland. The answer I give them is it was never my war and never will be.

The situation in the North is a joke in this day and age and why politics and religion is even being discussed on this forum is another joke.

Get over with ye're bigotry and get a life.

[awec]

Rubbish - just because those that have come on board from the North are generally Catholic or so we're told dosent mean that the team is composed exclusively of Catholic players.

Down here most of us dont give a monkey's what religion you are or whether you're nationalist or loyalist because it dosent preoccupy or daily lives the way it does yours.

I dont know the religion or politics of my next door neighbour never mind what the affiliations of the national team players are. Bottom line is I couldnt care less.

The sooner all of ye in the North figure that one out the better for all of ye up there.

Cant understand how a nation can go through their whole existence wanting to "take out" their neighbour because of their creed or colour.

It embarrasses me when I'm abroad and people ask do the Catholic and Protestants still kill each other in Ireland. The answer I give them is it was never my war and never will be.

The situation in the North is a joke in this day and age and why politics and religion is even being discussed on this forum is another joke.

Get over with ye're bigotry and get a life.

We don't give a monkey's either, but it's kind of hard to breed a cross community team whenever the FAI are engaged in a sectarian selection policy to try and attract all catholic players away.

This is the fact of the matter. You won't see the FAI knocking on the door of someone born on the Shankill to see if they'll defect. Why? because they're not catholic.

[greendeiseboy]

How do you know?

I'm sure if someone from the Shankill expressed an interest in joining us he'd be welcomed the same way as anybody else and more importantly would be welcomed by the fans.

I am in agreement that something needs to be done to protect ye're squad with regard to players defecting - like lowering the age that they commit etc.

But at the moment no rules have been broken.

As regards ye not giving a monkey's about a players beliefs dont make me laugh - that's why ye practically have a Berlin wall erected in Belfast,and in Derry the city is almost split in two to keep ye apart - what a society.

By the way Alan Kernaghan was from good Northern Ireland Protestant stock.

[backstothewall]

Let's not go down this route of football for all seeing as it's the FAI that seeks to recruit young Catholics from the North to ensure that no Catholic players can play for the North. Hardly an embrace of any sort of cross-community scheme.

Ironically the FAI's current activities are likely to lead to a Protestant Northern team and a Catholic southern team, and the media in all their idiocy will probably blame the north when any blame will lie squarely with the FAI and their sectarian selection policy. :)

I very much doubt there is any sectarian motive in the FAI's selection policy. To suggest that the FAI are acting in a sectarian way in all this, is to suggest that they wouldn't want a protestant in the NI setup to declare for the ROI. The fact that the players who have wanted to make the switch, have thus far been Catholics, says something about the fault line in Northern society, but all the FAI are doing is picking the best side they possibly can. Its got nothing to do with their religion. The FAI are being no more sectarian by picking Shane Ferguson, than the GFA were being racist when they picked Kevin Prince Boateng.

[awec]

People here are trying to say that Northern catholics defect because we're a bigotted team up here. If such nonsense is allowed to be spouted then I see no issue with me highlighting the south's sectarian selection policy.

[greendeiseboy]

People here are trying to say that Northern catholics defect because we're a bigotted team up here. If such nonsense is allowed to be spouted then I see no issue with me highlighting the south's sectarian selection policy.

The only one spouting sectarianisn is you.

You keep on about the FAI and a so called sectarian policy - where's your proof. We are an all-inclusive country and I'm sure the FAI is the same.

You live down here so I'm sure you have first hand experience of life down here.

If players from the North want to play for us it's their choice and if the FAI are taking advantage of this, there is nothing to stop them doing so under the current rules - no matter what the players beliefs are.

As I said if Jonny or Corey Evans wanted to play for us noone would have a problem with it.

[seanfhear]

People here are trying to say that Northern catholics defect because we're a bigotted team up here. If such nonsense is allowed to be spouted then I see no issue with me highlighting the south's sectarian selection policy.
I would say that its as simple as the players wanting to play for the team that they supported (and probably family and friends) as they were growing up.


I would welcome any player from any background that wants to play for Ireland as long as they are eligible. I am an all round athiest (both protestant and catholic and all other religions:D) so the fairy in the sky/mumbo jumbo stuff does'nt come into it for me.

[awec]

I would say that its as simple as the players wanting to play for the team that they supported (and probably family and friends) as they were growing up.


I would welcome any player from any background that wants to play for Ireland as long as they are eligible. I am an all round athiest (both protestant and catholic and all other religions:D) so the fairy in the sky/mumbo jumbo stuff does'nt come into it for me.
This I have no issue with. If you read posts from me both here and elsewhere you'll see that I've even defended the players that switch for this reason. I am not a bigot, I'm a northern born protestant who would have no issue attending GAA games, going to croke park etc etc.

My issue is with people like ArdeeBhoy spouting his tripe.

[greendeiseboy]

This I have no issue with. If you read posts from me both here and elsewhere you'll see that I've even defended the players that switch for this reason. I am not a bigot, I'm a northern born protestant who would have no issue attending GAA games, going to croke park etc etc.

My issue is with people like ArdeeBhoy spouting his tripe.

Fair dues - I wouldn't be caught dead at a GAA match

[awec]

Fair dues - I wouldn't be caught dead at a GAA match
:D

I've never actually went to one, but I'd have no aversion to doing so.

[DannyInvincible]

This I have no issue with. If you read posts from me both here and elsewhere you'll see that I've even defended the players that switch for this reason. I am not a bigot, I'm a northern born protestant who would have no issue attending GAA games, going to croke park etc etc.

My issue is with people like ArdeeBhoy spouting his tripe.

So you don't really believe that the FAI pursues a sectarian selection policy then?

[greendeiseboy]

:D

I've never actually went to one, but I'd have no aversion to doing so.

I went to a rugby playing school (one of only two in Waterford at the time) so I didnt have a GAA upbringing - went to a few games but didnt like it - didnt like a lot of the crap that went with it either.

[awec]

So you don't really believe that the FAI pursues a sectarian selection policy then?
No, but I thought since ArdeeBhoy is continually allowed to spout his bile that I may as well present an equally non-sensical counter-argument. :)

[Adrock]

Are there any ROI protestants we can give them to square things?

[greendeiseboy]

Are there any ROI protestants we can give them to square things?

Graham Norton and David Norris:)


And Bono

[Gather round]

I disagree almost entirely with Awec about the FAI. They clearly aren't sectarian, not really bothered about a player's other (dual-) nationality let alone his religion. Apart from all the British-born players in their squads, recent youth caps have gone to Messrs Lanre Oyebanjo and Selcuk Tidim. I'm guessing there's at least some non-Catholic West African/ Turkish ancestry in there, but who cares if they're eligible and good enough? I'm pretty certain if a kid from unionist background in NI was interested, they'd consider him too, even while realising the ill-informed grumbling from NI fans and the Belfast media might be even greater.

The FAI aren't interested in how many Catholics are in our team, any more than they care about the number of Zambians, squaddies or goalkeepers who can double up front.

Rather than sulking, we should be a) asking ourselves why guys who've already played NI would want to go elsewhere and b) talking to the FAI direct, not wasting time in spurious legal action nor FIFA politicking. But if the FAI continue to exploit us within the rules, we'll have to grin and bear it.


Cant understand how a nation can go through their whole existence wanting to "take out" their neighbour because of their creed or colour

Whoa. Less of the lazy stereotyping please.


It embarrasses me when I'm abroad and people ask do the Catholic and Protestants still kill each other in Ireland. The answer I give them is it was never my war and never will be

Heh. I sympathise with your embarrassment, but it would be unfair- and naive- to blame the foreigners. They aren't winding you up: you can't blame them for not knowing the subtle nuances between the Irish Republican Army and the er, Irish Republic ;)


the GFA were being racist when they picked Kevin Prince Boateng

I was wondering for a minute there what role the sometime Spurs makeweight had in our peace procession...


I would say that its as simple as the players wanting to play for the team that they supported (and probably family and friends) as they were growing up

Not quite, if they've already played for NI teams (including the first team, in some cases). But broadly you're right, it isn't a press gang.


Are there any ROI protestants we can give them to square things?

Would only apply if either a) they qualified on dual-nationality, granny rule or residence, or b) NI secedes from Britain and gives everyone in the South automatic citizenship ;)

[tricky_colour]

OK the discussion has got into a North V South thing, anyway he is starting for Newcastle today.
Can it be confirmed he wants to play for the Republic because I don't what to read the whole thread
as it is largely off topic.
I will watch the match if he is.

[tricky_colour]

http://www.joe.ie/football/international-football/shane-ferguson-considers-switching-to-the-republic-of-ireland-0011027-1

Shane Ferguson considers switching to the Republic of Ireland
yesterday at 9:30 am

Newcastle United’s Shane Ferguson could be considering switching nationalities, according to reports in The Irish Times.

The 19-year-old has been capped at under-17, under-19, under-21 as well as B team and full international level for Northern Ireland.

As his one cap for the North came in a friendly, however, he is still eligible to switch to the Republic under current FIFA laws.

The Irish Times claim that the switch is very likely, and the FAI have so far refused to comment on the possibility.

The loss of Ferguson would be a bitter blow to the IFA, who have already lost Darron Gibson, Shane Duffy, Paul George, Daniel Kearns and Marc Wilson to the FAI.

“It would be another disappointment for us if Shane decides to go,” IFA president Jim Shaw told the Belfast Telegraph.

Ferguson, a former Gaelic footballer and Derry City player, has impressed in his five appearances for Newcastle this season.

[tricky_colour]

Looks like we have another James McCarthy thread, is any bookmaker taking bets it will be longer than the McCarthy thread before
he start for the republic.

Here is Alan Pardew saying he want to stick to club football. :p
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9449439274923794257.stm

[seanfhear]

Looks like we have another James McCarthy thread, is any bookmaker taking bets it will be longer than the McCarthy thread before
he start for the republic.

Here is Alan Pardew saying he want to stick to club football. :p
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9449439274923794257.stm
Your a very naughty boy:D !

[greendeiseboy]

I disagree almost entirely with Awec about the FAI. They clearly aren't sectarian, not really bothered about a player's other (dual-) nationality let alone his religion. Apart from all the British-born players in their squads, recent youth caps have gone to Messrs Lanre Oyebanjo and Selcuk Tidim. I'm guessing there's at least some non-Catholic West African/ Turkish ancestry in there, but who cares if they're eligible and good enough? I'm pretty certain if a kid from unionist background in NI was interested, they'd consider him too, even while realising the ill-informed grumbling from NI fans and the Belfast media might be even greater.

The FAI aren't interested in how mny Catholics are in our team, any more than they care about the number of Zambians, squaddies or goalkeepers who can double up front.

Rather than sulking, we should be a) asking ourselves why guys who've already played NI would want to go elsewhere and b) talking to the FAI direct, not wasting time in spurious legal action nor FIFA politicking. But if the FAI continue to exploit us within the rules, we'll have to grin and bear it.



Whoa. Less of the lazy stereotyping please.


Heh. I sympathise with your embarrassment, but it would be unfair- and naive- to blame the foreigners. They aren't winding you up: you can't blame them for not knowing the subtle nuances between the Irish Republican Army and the er, Irish Republic ;)

Lol....good point re the Irish quote - I'm sure you even get that one when you're abroad seen as we're all seen as just Irish no matter where we are - England included !!!. As regards the stereotyping, unfortunately that's how a lot of us down here see things up there - justified or not.

[Gather round]

OK the discussion has got into a North V South thing

RoI supporters website starts thread about NI full international. What do you expect the discussion to be about- the Moriarty Tribunal?


I'm sure you even get that one when you're abroad seen as we're all seen as just Irish no matter where we are - England included

Of course, I've little problem with that. Northern Ireland- even Ireland as a whole- is a backwater internationally.


As regards the stereotyping, unfortunately that's how a lot of us down here see things up there - justified or not

The implication was that you think everyone in NI supports paramilitarism. If you can't even be arsed to justify that, you're hardly in a position to sneer at anyone else.

[geysir]

Our Shane starts today for Newcastle v Wolves.

[Gather round]

He's only yours when he starts or comes on for the RoI, surely?

[greendeiseboy]

RoI supporters website starts thread about NI full international. What do you expect the discussion to be about- the Moriarty Tribunal?



Of course, I've little problem with that. Northern Ireland- even Ireland as a whole- is a backwater internationally.



The implication was that you think everyone in NI supports paramilitarism. If you can't even be arsed to justify that, you're hardly in a position to sneer at anyone else.

As I said- justified or not - that's how the North is perceived even today. Unfortunately those that are trying to promote cross community relations are drowned out by the actions of others which are bound to make the headlines. The point in this is when ye played Scotland last month - what made the papers was the behavior of a minority of your fans.

I remember being in Belfast with a few friends - all Protestants -and we went for food in a take away - I was told not to speak as there were a few locals in there who if they heard my accent would most likely give me a hiding.


Like what way is that to carry on or live your life?

Ok, maybe not everyone up there is not preoccupied with religion or politics but having to be careful about what you say or how you speak, the places you socialise and who you socialise with it must be a very difficult place to live.

[Gather round]

As I said- justified or not - that's how the North is perceived even today

GDB: hasn't it occured to you that moaning about foreigners' image of Ireland is a bit daft when your own is so simplistic? Anyone in RoI who thinks everyone in NI supports paramilitary violence is either plain daft, or stirring it.


The point in this is when ye played Scotland last month - what made the papers was the behavior of a minority of your fans

So you recognise it was just an unrepresentative minority, not everyone? A start, I suppose.


I remember being in Belfast with a few friends - all Protestants -and we went for food in a take away - I was told not to speak as there were a few locals in there who if they heard my accent would most likely give me a hiding. Like what way is that to carry on or live your life?

If I were you I'd be asking why my 'mates' favorite takeaway is frequented by hoodlums.


Ok, maybe not everyone up there is not preoccupied with religion or politics but having to be careful about what you say or how you speak, the places you socialise and who you socialise with it must be a very difficult place to live

Spare us the melodrama, please.

[greendeiseboy]

GDB: hasn't it occured to you that moaning about foreigners' image of Ireland is a bit daft when your own is so simplistic? Anyone in RoI who thinks everyone in NI supports paramilitary violence is either plain daft, or stirring it.



So you recognise it was just an unrepresentative minority, not everyone? A start, I suppose.



If I were you I'd be asking why my 'mates' favorite takeaway is frequented by hoodlums.



Spare us the melodrama, please.

I suppose our preconceptions of your country are probably similar to ye're preconceptions of us in relation to the Catholic church and its members.

As regard the take away - well I'm sure my mates went there in good faith - if you pardon the pun.

[Gather round]

I suppose our preconceptions of your country are probably similar to ye're preconceptions of us in relation to the Catholic church and its members

No, wrong again. I had no problems with the RC Church when I lived in Dublin, and I certainly didn't generalise about the whole population based on what the Vatican said.

[Predator]

He's only yours when he starts or comes on for the RoI, surely?
He belongs to both of us.

[Gather round]

He doesn't 'belong' to anyone. What is this, the slave trade?

[geysir]

Surely knows how the end game will inevitably turn out.

[Predator]

He doesn't 'belong' to anyone. What is this, the slave trade?
I agree and I was going to make the distinction but felt you might have known better.

[SwanVsDalton]

He's only yours when he starts or comes on for the RoI, surely?

Ok GR don't be going all super-literal like EG now...

[theworm2345]

"Our" Shane just gone off injured with a calf injury, didn't seem to be that bad though.

[gastric]

If he is playing premiership football he has to be 'our Shane' and we are not for sharing! Who's our next recruit?

[ArdeeBhoy]

If you read posts from me both here and elsewhere you'll see that I've even defended the players that switch for this reason. I am not a bigot, I'm a northern born protestant who would have no issue attending GAA games, going to croke park etc etc.

My issue is with people like ArdeeBhoy spouting his tripe.

That's fine.

And I merely suggested those of a Catholic/non-Unionist persuasion in the North might feel welcome elsewhere when it comes to choosing an international football side.

But as you know many have chosen to play for the North and quite possibly will continue to do so.
Also NB and others have said they (or anyone) are welcome to make a free choice on who they play for, as long as their own team still exists.

Otherwise find myself in the odd position of agreeing with a certain rotund poster regarding personal circumstances and avenues as regards pursuing a professional career being also important....

[gastric]

Awec,

While you will certainly criticise me for commenting on this, but I find it a bit sad that you feel as someone who comes from NI, that you have to identify yourself as a ' Northern born Protestant'. I feel most people on here could not care less what religion people belong to and would in fact see such statements as being antiquated. I say this as there seems to be a continued link between such views and the NI team which in itself is the problem we in the South find difficult to comprehend.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Er, the border's real not notional. Its effect on, say, a Polish immigrant wanting to get involved in local politics in NI is that they just can't easily join most of the mainstream Dublin or London parties. Because they don't organise locally.

I agree their 'baggage' is likely to be different, ie they won't have grown up with the ingrained attitudes of NI. My point about football eligibilty was simply that since pretty much every footballer from NI is eligible to play for two international sides, people who qualify for a third aren't likely to be stand out- or be any more 'mercenary'- than the rest.

Besides repeating what you'd already said I'm not sure points you are, erm, making here??


Clearly Poland's long-term record in international football is better than NI's
Plenty of other Catholic-background locals are obviously quite happy to play for NI. You're assuming that not only do these notional Polish wunderkinds share your political prejudices, but that they'd put them before their footbal career.

The first part answers your own question, whilst the anti-Catholic attitude of certain Unionists (& of some of the North's fans towards that community at large) is not going to encourage outsiders to necessarily play for their football team.

Which you seem to confirm below....


Paramilitary organisations and football in the community schemes don't tend to overlap.


Apart from all the British-born players in their squads, recent youth caps have gone to Messrs Lanre Oyebanjo and Selcuk Tidim. I'm guessing there's at least some non-Catholic West African/ Turkish ancestry in there, but who cares if they're eligible and good enough? I'm pretty certain if a kid from unionist background in NI was interested, they'd consider him too, even while realising the ill-informed grumbling from NI fans and the Belfast media might be even greater.

The FAI aren't interested in how many Catholics are in our team, any more than they care about the number of Zambians, squaddies or goalkeepers who can double up front.
Well at least you seem to recognise the potential double standards. Don't forget the ever-increasing nos in the North's lesser teams born outside that immediate area.


we should be a) asking ourselves why guys who've already played NI would want to go elsewhere and b) talking to the FAI direct, not wasting time in spurious legal action nor FIFA politicking. But if the FAI continue to exploit us within the rules, we'll have to grin and bear it.

One potential answer is alluded to above. And the C.A.S. ruling hardly legitimised 'exploitation'....


Less of the lazy stereotyping please.

Somewhat ironic you follow this comment with this....


it would be unfair- and naive- to blame the foreigners. They aren't winding you up: you can't blame them for not knowing the subtle nuances between the Irish Republican Army and the er, Irish Republic
Ireland's population now has a somewhat more disparate stance than the more polarised views in the North.


He's only yours when he starts or comes on for the RoI, surely?
In a competitive game....


I had no problems with the RC Church when I lived in Dublin, and I certainly didn't generalise about the whole population based on what the Vatican said.

Hmm.... Personal experience tells me somewhat different, but I'll save you the embarrassment?? ;)

[liamoo11]

Josh barton from Villa played for the norths under 17s his old club was Cliftonville maybe a possible recruit

[Crosby87]

Rotund poster?

[Sullivinho]

'Foot.ie': a film by M. Night Shyamalan.



<<<Spoiler>>>



Ardeebhoy is Gather round.

http://images.nymag.com/images/2/daily/2008/10/20081008_mnight_250x375.jpg

[ArdeeBhoy]

Too much hair, in both cases.

And too well dressed.

[geysir]

But the eyes match?

[awec]

Awec,

While you will certainly criticise me for commenting on this, but I find it a bit sad that you feel as someone who comes from NI, that you have to identify yourself as a ' Northern born Protestant'. I feel most people on here could not care less what religion people belong to and would in fact see such statements as being antiquated. I say this as there seems to be a continued link between such views and the NI team which in itself is the problem we in the South find difficult to comprehend.
I don't identify myself as that at all in reality. I said that as part of my post toward ArdeeBhoy where I was trying to match his nonsense and idiotic views with equally idiotic and nonsensical views from the other side. :)

[ArdeeBhoy]

But you don't know my views....

[Not Brazil]

By the way Alan Kernaghan was from good Northern Ireland Protestant stock.

He was born in Leeds, to English parents.

[greendeiseboy]

He was born in Leeds, to English parents.


Northern Irish family background

http://eircomsports.eircom.net/News/Hero-of-the-Republic-Alan-Kernaghan.aspx

[The Fly]

Paul Rowan has a short article in The Sunday Times today, entitled 'South calling young stars', which touches upon the Shane Ferguson issue.

*I've just typed out the relevent parts as I can't provide a link. :(
(it's now a subscription based website)


The rumour mill has it that the Newcastle United left-back Shane ferguson is on the verge of a move to Glasgow and some rather puerile suggestions on a Celtic fans' website had it that with such a surname, the destination was bound to be Rangers.

But it would appear the only switch Ferguson will be making shortly is the one from Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland, sometime over the next few months. At the moment it does seem a matter of when and not if Ferguson makes the jump.

.......Ferguson is keeping his head down at Newcastle for the moment. Others coming through Northern Ireland's youth ranks will be doing the same, wondering if and when to make the jump. The players will be watching most closely what other players do. And, at the moment, the trend is for an exodus down South.

[DannyInvincible]

And, at the moment, the trend is for an exodus down South.[/I]

Is it really, though? It's like the rather uncompelling "floodgates opening" argument used by those who oppose the right of northern-born Irish nationals to represent Ireland, but that hasn't really happened nor is it likely to given the fact that, as with every team, there's an upper cap - eleven - on the number of spaces available in our team. Some players who might otherwise have supported us or intended to declare for Ireland will presumably be content to stick it out with Northern Ireland due what they might view as greater competition for places in our team.

[Predator]

I think 'exodus' is definitely the wrong word, but perhaps he's right in the sense that players will be more aware of their ability to make themselves available for the FAI. I don't see an exponential trend developing any time soon.