Jack Grealish

[Stuttgart88]

I'm too worn out by this continuing argument, if it's even that, but maybe he was being completely honest all along?

Anyway, let's see. I won't be looking to rub salt in if you're wrong. I just want to see good players play for us, I want us to be successful but like you I also don't want wanton opportunists playing for us. I honestly don't think JG fits that category, not by a long way.

[the doc]

you know the rules doc, you can delete the post, or you have 24 hours to produce proof of this ultimatum, otherwise it's an infraction

Do as you will Tetsa,

I'm done with this site, posters so way off with what's really going on.

When will people realise not to believe what's written or discussed in the Media?


I know my footie, will this so called infraction be remove once my comments bear fruition?

[tetsujin1979]

Do as you will Tetsa,

I'm done with this site, posters so way off with what's really going on.

When will people realise not to believe what's written or discussed in the Media?


I know my footie, will this so called infraction be remove once my comments bear fruition?
Only if you can provide proof that there was an ultimatum, which is what you stated occurred

[SwanVsDalton]

Do as you will Tetsa,

Probably an infraction in itself.

[Charlie Darwin]

Probably an infraction in itself.
It's moving into infarction territory.

[BonnieShels]

I wouldn't. I never had any interest in those players but Grealish is different, a kid already playing for us even if he does have the temerity to like the country he was born and bred in.

You really need to work on your young wan by all accounts.

In all seriousness the concept of dual nationality or growing up in a household such as say the Grealish's or the Stutts' is something that I can't get my head around. ie. Why wouldn't you pick Ireland?

But I'm aware and respect that those nuances exist.

I think that Aiden McGeady, Kevin Kilbane and Mick McCarthy ruined it for us to some extent. They could've wavered a bit to get us used to the concept.

[BonnieShels]

Was that what I had a problem with? My problem was that I thought he was playing for Ireland for career advancement reasons and not sentimental reasons, and because I thought he wasn't being entirely honest. In fairness it looks like he is going to declare for Ireland and if he does I will gladly eat humble pie but I still foresee a couple of forks in the road before he declares for anyone.

And yes I must admit that I was mildly irritated when he said he was supporting England in Euro 2012 when the team he plays Intl. football for (at youth level) were playing in the one and same tournament. I thought it was a bit patronising. Fair enough if he supports England but there is no need to be so vocal about it if you are playing for another country.

Niall McGinn was similarly vocal and whilst it was just the Nations Cup he was still in a position that he was playing for a rival team in the same tournament. Jack was merely a fan like you and me.. Would NMcG be deserving of similar opprobrium?

[DannyInvincible]

JG has been given an ultimatum, put up or shut up, so expect him to be called into the next senior squad but should he withdraw its curtains for him with us.

Why do you flat-out lie like this? I don't get it. Indeed, Martin O'Neill has said the complete opposite; there is absolutely no pressure on Grealish whatsoever.


BBC running the story, citing the Irish Times and Irish Independent.

They also appear to think that Gort has moved from Galway to Wicklow: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29660430


i love the photo of O'Neill and Low before the game. Contrast that to O'Neill yapping on and on to Low at the final whistle when Low wanted to get the f out of there ASAP. I'd love to know what O'Neill said, because Low certainly didn't want to listen.

I'm not a professional lip-reader or anything like that, but I'm pretty sure he articulated with great grace, poise and eloquence, as only Martin could, "Bail that out, you f*cker."


My problem was that I thought he was playing for Ireland for career advancement reasons and not sentimental reasons, and because I thought he wasn't being entirely honest.

Maybe he was just uncertain. And why does everything have to be a case of either/or with you? Maybe career considerations and sentimental considerations have combined to varying degrees in his decision to represent Ireland. People often make decisions based on a combination of various competing or complementing factors.

[BonnieShels]

When we all know Gort is in Brazil...

[gastric]

I don't think Bamford and Kane will declare because we beat Georgia and Gibraltar. And I don't think Noble and Naughton are going to change the habit of a lifetime.

Not that we are doing too badly without them. Who the hell would want Gibson, Meyler or Hendrick shunted by these guys after some of their recent performances for us?

I hope they all declare for us. And when have I ever said these players would shunt the incumbents? What I keep saying is they are options, whether they are used by O'Neill is another question. All their declaration for Ireland would do is increase our options particularly when affected by injury. If they prove to be the best option so be it, if they don't we have lost nothing. That's why I don't have any issue with these players. Luke Chambers was approached by the FAI a few years ago and asked to declare for us. I believe he has and has never played for us ( happy to be corrected on this!) so what's the problem with this?

Edit: The only player I feel who could make a positive contribution now from the many discussed is McGoldrick and while many on here might dispute this, I would suggest he would be a suitable replacement for Robbie if injured, but certainly not near as good.

[Deckydee]

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/jack-grealishs-father-kevin-has-all-but-confirmed-that-his-son-will-be-part-of-martin-oneills-plans-for-irelands-friendly-against-the-usa-five-days-after-a-huge-euro-2016-qualifier-in-celtic-park-against-30671802.html

[Kingdom]

I don't feel I should have to qualify my opinion, but I'll do so anyway. What we badly need now are legitimate options. The great thing, and I've probably not said this before, is that with the current management system we're not going to be picking up spoofers. I'm not saying it's happened in the past, but a player I'd have been happy not to declare has been Anthony Pilkington. The boy just never looks bothered. ANd personally I don't think he gives us anything, not even depth.

Depth, and quality has always been our issue. Quality you can work around with a decent system. Depth you cannot. Everyone, and I mean that, should look at the recent game against Germany to show that Paul McShane, proud and rightly so born and bred Irishman, is just not good enough, under any circumstances for the national team squad. MON decided to play a midfielder with 180 mins experience at right back rather than Paul McShane. There is enough common sense within the ranks of the FAI's tech development bureau to target the areas we're weak in at senior level, and then filtering this down the grades - no different to the front row in rugby - so that players can develop specifically for a position, and God forbid, can make career choices as they go along.

You could say at the moment we've a core of about 40 that you can say we could reasonably call upon. I have taken huge liberties (lenihan/Sheridan) I will include players I personally don't rate. It's weak reading. I've put in bold the players who if possible I feel we should be improving on (and I included Robbie in this, purely because we need to find someone to take up his mantle soon, not because I don't rate him.)

Forde Westwood Randolph Elliot Henderson Given (6)
Coleman Ward OShea Wilson Pearce Keogh Clark Delaney St Ledger Duffy Lenihan McShane Kelly (13)
McGeady Brady McClean Pilkington McCarthy Whelan Gibson Hendrick Meyler Hoolahan Quinn Walters Reid Green (14)
Keane Long Stokes Doyle Sheridan Murphy (6)

Now, I reckon there are others around the Championship, League 1 and possibly the LOI who all could rightfully say that they could hold their own in the above list of players. Derrick Williams is a player who could develop into a fine defender, and he's at a club that could well be riding high in the Championship next season in Bristol City. There's plenty of the under 19 team that went far three years ago that if they get a bit of luck can eck out a decent career for themselves.

If Bamford, Kane, Christie and McGoldrick all declared for us, and Grealish remained with us, it would be seismic. It would make a huge improvement to the squad. It would mean the core getting stronger and wider, and maybe even open some other options with formations etc.

In a way, you kind of have to admire Northern Ireland in the past decade. They've smaller resources and numbers than us, the players coming through that are decent that we can plunder, we've done so, yet when they have to turn to a solid (if unspectacular) player from the bowels of League 1 or 2 then they do it. and if it doesn't work out, they pick a youngster from the 19's who might only be getting reserve football and they test him out.
I'm sure it was mentioned last week on this site, about picking kids that the underage coaches know is good, but for one reason or another the club career has stalled or whatever. I kind of wish we would either utilise some of our friendlies for those purposes, or pick a year of B Internationals and use them for that purpose.

Finally to get this post somewhere back on track, I pray to God Grealish stays with Ireland, because I think he could have a fantastic career with us, but I'm not so sure England will get the best from his talents. I reckon he'll be in Europe by his mid-20's. I would see a lot of Steve McManaman in him

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

O'Neill in the dark.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/roy-keane-will-manage-ireland-oneill-30673434.html

[Stuttgart88]

He's playing this scenario well. I suspect he knows more than he is letting on.

[tetsujin1979]

I don't think Bamford and Kane will declare because we beat Georgia and Gibraltar. And I don't think Noble and Naughton are going to change the habit of a lifetime.

Not that we are doing too badly without them. Who the hell would want Gibson, Meyler or Hendrick shunted by these guys after some of their recent performances for us?
Neither Kane nor Bamford would take the place of any one of Gibson, Meyler or Hendrick

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Neither Kane nor Bamford would take the place of any one of Gibson, Meyler or Hendrick

I was talking more about Noble coming in for Gibson or Hendrick or Naughton coming in in Meyler's place.

Personally, I think Kane and Bamford could be coups if they declared but they don't have any interest so they are null and void.

At least McGoldrick sounds enthusiastic.

[Olé Olé]

Was trying to think about the sort of reception that Jack Grealish would receive should he make his bow against the USA. I don't doubt it would be reminiscent of James McClean's reception. That made the hair stand on the neck. Circumstances were slightly different but McClean showed such determination to represent us that the footballing public welcomed him with open arms (his club career was very positive at the time also).

I was just about to post the above but I remembered I should insert a caveat before my post would be gobbled up by someone quick to point out Jack's recent hesitance. Maybe hesitance did exist but the most critical club decision of his young career also existed at the same time. Add to this pressure from the football association in the country he was born in. The kid deserves some slack.

[Kingdom]

I think Noble is overrated myself anyway, and I'd take Gibson, Whelan and McCarthy over him without any hesitation.

[Stuttgart88]

Was trying to think about the sort of reception that Jack Grealish would receive should he make his bow against the USA. I don't doubt it would be reminiscent of James McClean's reception. That made the hair stand on the neck. Circumstances were slightly different but McClean showed such determination to represent us that the footballing public welcomed him with open arms (his club career was very positive at the time also).

I was just about to post the above but I remembered I should insert a caveat before my post would be gobbled up by someone quick to point out Jack's recent hesitance. Maybe hesitance did exist but the most critical club decision of his young career also existed at the same time. Add to this pressure from the football association in the country he was born in. The kid deserves some slack.
I agree, it'd be a rapturous welcome I reckon. Agree with other point too.

[Olé Olé]

I think Noble is overrated myself anyway, and I'd take Gibson, Whelan and McCarthy over him without any hesitation.

PL player, yes. A huge upgrade on the current options? I don't think so. Imagine if he knocked Quinn down the pecking order. I'm not that receptive to that populist cr*p that can be spouted like 'he's taking the jersey of someone else', but I admire Quinn's resolve and persistence to become a Premier League and international footballer when he was in L1 not too long ago.

I know you're a Whelan fan Kingdom and I think it's debatable whether he'd offer more than Whelan but they play two different roles. Is he more comparable to McCarthy and Gibson? Yes. Is he better than either of them? No, I don't think so. Definitely not McCarthy and I think Gibson would offer more at the base of a two or 3 man midfield when up to speed.

[The Fly]

Was trying to think about the sort of reception that Jack Grealish would receive should he make his bow against the USA. I don't doubt it would be reminiscent of James McClean's reception. That made the hair stand on the neck.

I thought that was a bit embarrassing. You'd have thought Messi was coming on.

[Philly]

Grealish left out of the Villa squad today. What does that say about his international intentions?

[BonnieShels]

There's lots to read into it.

TOWK should be able to refine it for us.

[Kingdom]

PL player, yes. A huge upgrade on the current options? I don't think so. Imagine if he knocked Quinn down the pecking order. I'm not that receptive to that populist cr*p that can be spouted like 'he's taking the jersey of someone else', but I admire Quinn's resolve and persistence to become a Premier League and international footballer when he was in L1 not too long ago.

I know you're a Whelan fan Kingdom and I think it's debatable whether he'd offer more than Whelan but they play two different roles. Is he more comparable to McCarthy and Gibson? Yes. Is he better than either of them? No, I don't think so. Definitely not McCarthy and I think Gibson would offer more at the base of a two or 3 man midfield when up to speed.

Spot on, he doesn't compete with Whelan, and in theory he doesn't compete with Mac either. I really like Gibson, who we must remember isn't a child anymore, and still hasn't forged any proper career for himself.

Quinn is a strange type of player. He doesn't really appear to ever do much more than keep play going, but that's the type of quality lacking in a lot of British based players, and he is obviously very determined. I like him, and would never mind having to fall back onto him.

[Stuttgart88]

I think Quinn does more than that. He's a busy player who puts tackles in and no mean crosser of the ball too.

[Kingdom]

I think Quinn does more than that. He's a busy player who puts tackles in and no mean crosser of the ball too.

This is why my posts are so long! To me, in comparison to most of the central midfielders, Quinn is not a particularly tough tackler. I'd class him very similar to Mark Kinsella, or Matt Holland, probably more the latter, in other words an excellent foil. He is more an effective closer of space I'd say. I wouldn't mind seeing him in a more withdrawn role in a friendly for example.

[Olé Olé]

I thought that was a bit embarrassing. You'd have thought Messi was coming on.

When did we last produce a Messi?

[tricky_colour]

But that's nonsense and not how this type of journalism works, except in ridiculous movies.

It's not his job to sell newspapers, it's his job to sell content. That content ideally will help newspapers, but if it's patently bogus then his career is over - totally ruined. An editor won't let the threat of Grealish or his family having nothing to do with the paper again just to sell a couple more units.

In this instance, that fact Fallon works across multiple publications is literally a force multiplier. If it was one guy tipping off the Irish Daily Star, then maybe - maybe - they would run that story. But there's no way a go-to sports freelancer for numerous outlets is going to risk doing it.

Not sure it quite works like that, the newspapers are a bit of a cartel, plenty of other papers printed the story, surprisingly the Daily Mail doesn't seem
to be one of them, perhaps it was not as good as their other made up stories.

It does not matter whether they speak to the paper or not anyway, Fallon is only a phone call away and
will be happy to provide one.

[SwanVsDalton]

Not sure it quite works like that, the newspapers are a bit of a cartel, plenty of other papers printed the story, surprisingly the Daily Mail doesn't seem
to be one of them, perhaps it was not as good as their other made up stories.

It does not matter whether they speak to the paper or not anyway, Fallon is only a phone call away and
will be happy to provide one.

No. That's a potential libel. That's a couple of careers ruined and a paper risking it all for, what , 100 copies extra sold, if that? You'd be surprised how sensitive editors are to possible legal action caused by fabrication.

Re-adjust your trust Tricky.

[The Fly]

When did we last produce a Messi?

Never. What's your point?

[tricky_colour]

I think Quinn does more than that. He's a busy player who puts tackles in and no mean crosser of the ball too.


This is why my posts are so long! To me, in comparison to most of the central midfielders, Quinn is not a particularly tough tackler. I'd class him very similar to Mark Kinsella, or Matt Holland, probably more the latter, in other words an excellent foil. He is more an effective closer of space I'd say. I wouldn't mind seeing him in a more withdrawn role in a friendly for example.


I am always happy to see his name on the team sheet, he is the sort of player who will get at the opposition, not something I would really say about Whelan McCarty or Gibson.

I have just been looking for some evidence to illustrate this and I think this says a lot

games played, fouls committed, fouls suffered, fouled suffered per game

quinn 4 - 2 - 11 - 2.75
mccarthy 7 - 8 - 9 - 1.28
whelan 7 - 7 - 3 - 0.48

So he is 2.14 times more likely to be fouled than McCarthy and and a staggering 5.7 times more likely to be fouled than Whelan .
He is also half as likely to be fouled and either of them.

So to me it seems he gets involved in a positive way, he caused problems for the opposition, he is a bit of a terrier on the pitch
as opposed to a poodle.


Couple of other players

coleman 4 - 2 - 7
baines 8 - 6 - 14

Granted it isn't everything but I think it shows something, you would not be getting fouled is your were not causing problems
for the opposition and you would not need to foul the opposition if you were coping with them otherwise (although you could say you
could not get near enough to foul them). Would just add the stats are not from a lot of games so might not be fully representative but
even so the ratios are large so they are significant.

[tricky_colour]

No. That's a potential libel. That's a couple of careers ruined and a paper risking it all for, what , 100 copies extra sold, if that? You'd be surprised how sensitive editors are to possible legal action caused by fabrication.

Re-adjust your trust Tricky.


Firstly it is not libellous, you seemed to have assumed he would make the story up, now that is potentially
libellous. However you need not worry as he would have to prove in court he didn't make the story up,
something he will have great difficulty doing, especially so considering Grealish's tweet soon afterwards!!
ie "Some stuff in the papers today about me that I didn't even no myself"

[SwanVsDalton]

Firstly it is not libellous, you seemed to have assumed he would make the story up, now that is potentially
libellous. However you need not worry as he would have to prove in court he didn't make the story up,
something he will have great difficulty doing, especially so considering Grealish's tweet soon afterwards!!
ie "Some stuff in the papers today about me that I didn't even no myself"

Your initial post was confusing - who are the they of 'It doesn't matter whether they speak to the paper'? I assumed it was Grealish's family. So Fallon would be making it up. That not what you meant?

You really think Jack's tweet is the end of it? Since then we've heard nothing from Jack or the family. Nothing to discredit this 'false story', just a 'wow look at that stuff in the papers, journos eh?!' style tweet.

But we have had a follow-up, fully by-lined by the same writer, endorsed by a different publication and set of editors, reiterating the story. And no repudiation from Jack and his family.

If someone was just making stuff up about me, I think I'd protest a bit more.

[mark12345]

Was trying to think about the sort of reception that Jack Grealish would receive should he make his bow against the USA. I don't doubt it would be reminiscent of James McClean's reception. That made the hair stand on the neck. Circumstances were slightly different but McClean showed such determination to represent us that the footballing public welcomed him with open arms (his club career was very positive at the time also).

I was just about to post the above but I remembered I should insert a caveat before my post would be gobbled up by someone quick to point out Jack's recent hesitance. Maybe hesitance did exist but the most critical club decision of his young career also existed at the same time. Add to this pressure from the football association in the country he was born in. The kid deserves some slack.

Couldn't agree more with this post.

Welcome aboard Jack. Thank you for choosing the land of your grandparents when it might not have been the popular thing to do with some so called experts out there. May you have a long and prosperous career with Ireland. And if you do happen to read this message board, I apologize for some of the folks on here who have nothing better to do it seems but offer rash and ill informed comments instead of affording you a little bit of slack, as is suggested above. There are plenty of them about in Ireland unfortunately.

[tricky_colour]

Your initial post was confusing - who are the they of 'It doesn't matter whether they speak to the paper'? I assumed it was Grealish's family. So Fallon would be making it up. That not what you meant?

You really think Jack's tweet is the end of it? Since then we've heard nothing from Jack or the family. Nothing to discredit this 'false story', just a 'wow look at that stuff in the papers, journos eh?!' style tweet.

But we have had a follow-up, fully by-lined by the same writer, endorsed by a different publication and set of editors, reiterating the story. And no repudiation from Jack and his family.

If someone was just making stuff up about me, I think I'd protest a bit more.

This getting confusing. The papers do not need Jack or his families to peak to them, they can
write stories about them whatever, but truthful ones and made up ones. Certainly they did not stop
this completely fabricated story (and it is) so they can write pretty much what they like.

Yes Jacks tweet is the end of it, he has completely rubbished Fallon's story
what more do expect him or his family to do? Drive round to Fallon's house
and kick the living daylights out of him?

The second story is a joke, a complete p*ss take.

It really is not worth commenting on and that is exactly what Jack and his family have done.

[Charlie Darwin]

Tricky, seriously, Fallon is a good journalist and he wouldn't write the story without a real source. Jack has previously indicated (or his brother has) that his father would manage his international future, and his father is the one who's been sharing the story around. It doesn't take a great amount of effort to connect the dots.

[SwanVsDalton]

This getting confusing. The papers do not need Jack or his families to peak to them, they can
write stories about them whatever, but truthful ones and made up ones. Certainly they did not stop
this completely fabricated story (and it is) so they can write pretty much what they like.

Yes Jacks tweet is the end of it, he has completely rubbished Fallon's story
what more do expect him or his family to do? Drive round to Fallon's house
and kick the living daylights out of him?

The second story is a joke, a complete p*ss take.

It really is not worth commenting on and that is exactly what Jack and his family have done.

You're right Tricky. Papers can do whatever they want and no one will stop them because no one cares and there's no incentives for writers and editors not to lie and that's just how the media works.

[Deckydee]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/jack-grealishs-father-confirms-the-villa-ace-will-be-available-to-play-for-ireland-against-the-usa-30675389.html

[liamoo11]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/jack-grealishs-father-confirms-the-villa-ace-will-be-available-to-play-for-ireland-against-the-usa-30675389.html

can someone scan the sunday times interview. cant get sunday times where i live

[DannyInvincible]

Yes Jacks tweet is the end of it, he has completely rubbished Fallon's story
what more do expect him or his family to do? Drive round to Fallon's house
and kick the living daylights out of him?

The second story is a joke, a complete p*ss take.

Jack's tweet didn't go into any great level of detail. He just said he had no knowledge of claims made in the media. He didn't specify exactly which claims were news to him. Presumably, he was referring to the claim that he'd be in the squad for the US. This may well have been the case because his dad has been discussing matters with the FAI on his behalf. His dad posted Fallon's story on Facebook on Friday afternoon with the a message along the lines of "USA versus Ireland, Brad Guzan versus Jack"; you could only interpret that as approval or affirmation. Anyway, Jack's tweet has not been the end of it at all; Jack's dad has just confirmed this morning that Jack will be available for the US friendly.

[DannyInvincible]

Which is, of course, fantastic news.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Couldn't agree more with this post.

Welcome aboard Jack. Thank you for choosing the land of your grandparents when it might not have been the popular thing to do with some so called experts out there. May you have a long and prosperous career with Ireland. And if you do happen to read this message board, I apologize for some of the folks on here who have nothing better to do it seems but offer rash and ill informed comments instead of affording you a little bit of slack, as is suggested above. There are plenty of them about in Ireland unfortunately.

Erm..... he isn't available for the Scotland game. He's available for the U.S.A. game. That is a friendly, which means he's won't be tied to Ireland if he plays. Like I am glad to be proven wrong but he could very well still end up declaring for England, though it's looking unlikely now.

And I don't think Jack reads football forums so I don't think he would be offended by any polite, constructive and well formed criticisms of some of his past comments and actions. He's a grown man.

I would love to see him become a bonafide Premier League player and play for Ireland over England because there certainly hasn't been a similar precedent in the past. It's still up in the air whether he's good enough though.

I hasten to ad that people clamoring for him to accept a call up to a competitive Intl. so he can come on in the 94th minute and be forever tied to Ireland probably puts him under more undue pressure than anything I've said.

[tricky_colour]

Looks like I was right.

[Stuttgart88]

Calling him up just to cap him for a minute in a competitive game would be mad, and an insult to JG's intelligence. I think if he gets a game, or part of a game against USA it'd be great. It'd bring a bit of a box office element to the game and it'd help his transition into senior football. I don't know just how good he'll become but I'd be very surprised if he doesn't at least achieve a level that would be of meaningful benefit to Ireland.

I also think it'd be very hard for him to change his mind even if technically a senior friendly cap makes no difference to his future eligibility for England.

[tricky_colour]

Which is, of course, fantastic news.

Yes I expect Jack will be delighted when he finds out.

[SwanVsDalton]

Looks like I was right.

I'll probably regret asking this but here goes - how's that? :)

[tricky_colour]

I'll probably regret asking this but here goes - how's that? :)

You were right first time!!! :p

[geysir]

Calling him up just to cap him for a minute in a competitive game would be mad, and an insult to JG's intelligence. I think if he gets a game, or part of a game against USA it'd be great. It'd bring a bit of a box office element to the game and it'd help his transition into senior football. I don't know just how good he'll become but I'd be very surprised if he doesn't at least achieve a level that would be of meaningful benefit to Ireland.

I also think it'd be very hard for him to change his mind even if technically a senior friendly cap makes no difference to his future eligibility for England.

It would be okay if both parties thought it was the best for the player, to stop all the speculation about his intentions and let him focus on football, eg the James McCarthy competitive cap.

[Stuttgart88]

he is a bit of a terrier on the pitch
as opposed to a poodle.
I love it!

[Stuttgart88]

It would be okay if both parties thought it was the best for the player, to stop all the speculation about his intentions and let him focus on football, eg the James McCarthy competitive cap.

Yes, if it was agreed in that context, absolutely.