Jack Grealish

[the doc]

Lads lets cut down on the hype about a player that's done nothing in the game yet.

I think he will take the same route as Clark (Remember the hype about him on here??) and declare for the Irish senior set up once he realises he's not going to make the senior England set up.

Personally I don't want any player who has played under age football for England or any player who courts England and then comes to us once England aren't interested.

No, You have to be 100% committed to Ireland.

My heart is and has always been with Ireland.

[tricky_colour]

Lads lets cut down on the hype about a player that's done nothing in the game yet.

I think he will take the same route as Clark (Remember the hype about him on here??) and declare for the Irish senior set up once he realises he's not going to make the senior England set up.

Personally I don't want any player who has played under age football for England or any player who courts England and then comes to us once England aren't interested.

No, You have to be 100% committed to Ireland.

My heart is and has always been with Ireland.

I wonder how England would feel about playing a player who had played underage for Ireland?

[Olé Olé]

Can I try and shed a little context on this whole argument that Jack having shown some support for England is such a bad thing.

Jack made his Ireland debut at the 2010 Tri Nations competition. That was held circa May 2010. At this point, Jack would have been a 14 year-old kid in England that would have surely been swept by World Cup fever. May I add, Ireland did not qualify for this World Cup.

So, before and after the 2010 World Cup, Jack re-affirmed his desire to represent us. At the age of 14, I'm sure the notion of pulling on the England jersey would make any kid burst with excitement at the prospect, if they were that way inclined. However, young Jack decided to go with the boys in green.

Please also bear in mind that Jack may feel inherently Irish and still support England. The nearest comparison I can find is my mate who has two Cork parents but has been born and reared in Kerry and supports the Kerry footballers. Why? Well, I'm sure one of the reasons is because there's something great about being a supporter and being surrounded by a communal environment of support for the same side.

Young Jack has spent his whole life surrounded by English people and the English media and the English hype. It's only natural that he'd support them.

But my mate still supports the Cork hurlers...

[the doc]

I wonder how England would feel about playing a player who had played underage for Ireland?

I don't give a feck about what England think and neither should you.

I'd rather have a team of 100% committed players to Ireland than those who are using us as a second choice.

[osarusan]

I'd rather have a team of 100% committed players to Ireland than those who are using us as a second choice.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, once they've made their 'second choice.'

[DannyInvincible]

Lads lets cut down on the hype about a player that's done nothing in the game yet.

Where's the hype? :confused:


My heart is and has always been with Ireland.

Who else might it have been with?


I'd rather have a team of 100% committed players to Ireland than those who are using us as a second choice.

Grealish has played for us since the age of 14. He never played for anyone else before that.

[gastric]

Where's the hype? :confused:



Who else might it have been with?



Grealish has played for us since the age of 14. He never played for anyone else before that.

Well Faye Rooney had Doc's heart until she recently gave him the arse and Doc, you didn't represent Ireland at underage level, why? Were you not 100% committed? :D

[Charlie Darwin]

Lads lets cut down on the hype about a player that's done nothing in the game yet.

I think he will take the same route as Clark (Remember the hype about him on here??) and declare for the Irish senior set up once he realises he's not going to make the senior England set up.

Personally I don't want any player who has played under age football for England or any player who courts England and then comes to us once England aren't interested.

No, You have to be 100% committed to Ireland.

My heart is and has always been with Ireland.
Sean, you know full well Clark committed to Ireland as soon as he was told he was allowed to.

[paul_oshea]

Did that English lad John Greaveslish play for Aston Villa the other day?

[ifk101]

Can't understand why there is no place for Preston's Sean St Ledger who is in outstanding form right now.
Strange indeed, spoke to a coach in the game who told me, that Kerr had been keen to get him into the set up when he was in charge and that many in the game rate him as a better player than McShane and Bruce.
Could be a big loss if Ireland don't play him soon as he is also eligible to play for the Northies too

Ireland or nobody for the doc ....

[DannyInvincible]

How was St. Ledger eligible to play for them? Wasn't his grandfather from Carlow?

[ifk101]

Carlow is in Northern Ireland silly. Ask anyone born in Birmingham ;-)

[DeLorean]

Did that English lad John Greaveslish play for Aston Villa the other day?

No, unused sub.

[geysir]

Kerr was a staunch critic of St Ledger's call up.

St Ledger's (infinite) heart for Ireland didn't include having an Irish passport until it was delivered at express speed after Staunton included him in the squad v Germany.

[tetsujin1979]

Kerr was a staunch critic of St Ledger's call up.

St Ledger's (infinite) heart for Ireland didn't include having an Irish passport until it was delivered at express speed after Staunton included him in the squad v Germany.
Kerr had no such qualms about calling up England U20 cap Jon Macken

[DannyInvincible]

Kerr was a staunch critic of St Ledger's call up.

St Ledger's (infinite) heart for Ireland didn't include having an Irish passport until it was delivered at express speed after Staunton included him in the squad v Germany.

Lolz! What does the doc have to say about that?

[Fixer82]

How was St. Ledger eligible to play for them? Wasn't his grandfather from Carlow?

Recently moved to Carlow and there is indeed a few St. Ledger's down in Bagenalstown

[the doc]

Kerr was a staunch critic of St Ledger's call up.

St Ledger's (infinite) heart for Ireland didn't include having an Irish passport until it was delivered at express speed after Staunton included him in the squad v Germany.


Is this the same Kerr, that was pushing for SSL to be called into the under age set up?

It's all academic now, as he's done pretty well for us in the games he's played.

I'm sure you all were celebrating the goals he scored?

How soon ye all forget!

I know my footie, I deal in facts not fiction like others on here!

[tetsujin1979]

Is this the same Kerr, that was pushing for SSL to be called into the under age set up?

It's all academic now, as he's done pretty well for us in the games he's played.

I'm sure you all were celebrating the goals he scored?

How soon ye all forget!

I know my footie, I deal in facts not fiction like others on here!
I presume you have evidence to back this up?
And no, hearsay and conjecture are not kinds of evidence

[ifk101]

Is this the same Kerr, that was pushing for SSL to be called into the under age set up?

If so, and you knew of Ireland's interest, why the wait to get an Irish passport?


It's all academic now, as he's done pretty well for us in the games he's played.

I'm sure you all were celebrating the goals he scored?

How soon ye all forget!

So to sum up, your preference is for 100% committed players but you'll celebrate players less than 100% committed that do pretty well (subjective) and score goals?


I know my footie, I deal in facts not fiction like others on here!

Your insight is invaluable.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm sure you all were celebrating the goals he scored?

How soon ye all forget!

Of course we were. Nobody's forgetting your goals and performances, Sean. They were much appreciated.

We're just laughing at the bull you spout on here from time to time. It's a little less appreciated, although still amusing, I'll grant you that.

[tetsujin1979]

Paul McGrath has joined beanbagsports.com and in his first blog gives his opinion on Villa, Grealish, Keane and Ireland: https://beanbagsports.com/#/news/2193/877-the-future-is-bright-for-villa

[Charlie Darwin]

Going by the club's twitter account, Grealish ran the show today for the U21s against Bolton, hitting the bar and having a handful of other chances. Shay Given and Kevin Toner also played, but Graham Burke wasn't in the matchday squad.

https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial

[TonyD]

Kerr had no such qualms about calling up England U20 cap Jon Macken

Did you see Kerr on Soccer Republic the other week discussing that? Sounded like he regretted it to me. Basically said he did it out of desperation but wasn't happy with Mackens committment, or words to that effect. Some players will perform well in the green shirt and give their all, because basically they are good professionals. Andy Townsend was a prime example. Doesn't make them Irish though. I know many people disagree and feel that if its in FIFAs rules then it's fair game, beggars can't be choosers etc etc. Wouldn't be my view.

[DannyInvincible]

I generally like Kerr - thought he got a raw deal from the FAI - but it's much easier to claim the moral high-ground when not in charge and sniping from the sidelines. I find it difficult to reconcile some of his earlier actions with his later axe-grinding. He happily selected Belfast-born Ger Crossley when he was in charge of the national team, for example, but later criticised the FAI for facilitating and selecting northern-born players in recent years.

What would make these players you mention authentically Irish, in your view? Townsend was exceptionally touched to captain us at USA '94. See the interview below:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq_Av65L4R0

SvD stated a few weeks back that he was actually crying in studio after we were knocked out of the 2002 World Cup. (At least, I don't think SvD was joking.) Sure, he was supporting England against us in 1988, but in tandem with the professionalism you mention, there is/was obviously some sense of Irish pride and sentiment there.

[tricky_colour]

I generally like Kerr - thought he got a raw deal from the FAI - but it's much easier to claim the moral high-ground when not in charge and sniping from the sidelines. I find it difficult to reconcile some of his earlier actions with his later axe-grinding. He happily selected Belfast-born Ger Crossley when he was in charge of the national team, for example, but later criticised the FAI for facilitating and selecting northern-born players in recent years.

What would make these players you mention authentically Irish, in your view? Townsend was exceptionally touched to captain us at USA '94. See the interview below:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq_Av65L4R0

SvD stated a few weeks back that he was actually crying in studio after we were knocked out of the 2002 World Cup. (At least, I don't think SvD was joking.) Sure, he was supporting England against us in 1988, but in tandem with the professionalism you mention, there is/was obviously some sense of Irish pride and sentiment there.

One thing I noticed though was "to lead the team out", he didn't say "to lead my country out", mind you
Wayne Rooney might say the same about England, lol probably not the best example there, but John
Terry might have said the same thing, But anyway for a player with mixed nationality/eligibility the
phrase "my country" is not one that describes their nationality accurately, it is more complex than that
for them.

There are even people who do not live in Manchester who support Man United :)

[mark12345]

Andy Townsend was a prime example. Doesn't make them Irish though. I know many people disagree and feel that if its in FIFAs rules then it's fair game, beggars can't be choosers etc etc. Wouldn't be my view.

Amazing comment to be fair. Let's get the microscopes out and start examining our respective DNA levels, and maybe we can come up with who's really Irish and who is not.
Bottom line my friend is this: Andy Townsend was, and is, a credit to Ireland, and he like a multitude of others deserve mountains of credit for opting to play for the country of their forefathers when surely they took plenty of stick from those around them. It would have been far easier for them to take the easy option and not have to deal with the flak.
Ireland is not refined to the land mass west of Britain. It is spread across the world in places like America, Australia, Canada and almost every country in between.

Just a question for you: "If say, Paul McGrath's, David O'Leary's or Liam Brady's son (born in England) wanted to pull on the green shirt - you would deny them the chance?
And then, to follow your logic, you would accept the son of say someone from a far flung land whose mother arrived in Ireland just in time to give birth?
Strange logic.

[back of the net]

SvD stated a few weeks back that he was actually crying in studio after we were knocked out of the 2002 World Cup. (At least, I don't think SvD was joking.) Sure, he was supporting England against us in 1988, but in tandem with the professionalism you mention, there is/was obviously some sense of Irish pride and sentiment there.

Pretty sure I can remember that - it went back to the ITV studio after the peno shoot out and the itv presenter (gabby yorath i think) asked andy to comment on Ireland losing the shootout - andy started to say the better team lost and just had this gutted look on his face and basically said something to the effect that he needed a moment due to his dissappointment for the team and that ireland were out...which the presenter quickly acknowledged and gave him a few moments and directed questions at the other analyst


Im about 80% the above happened and that it wasnt some strange Andy Townsend crossover in one of my many Gabby Yorath dreams :D

[paul_oshea]

MOL to the rescue for MON:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/michael-oleary-offers-free-flights-to-family-of-jack-grealish-should-he-choose-to-play-for-ireland-30626792.html

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I don't understand the diaspora argument really. A liberal estimate of 10-15% of foreign born players declare for Ireland because it's their first choice, if that.

And since the late 90's, a miniscule amount of foreign born players outside of McGeady & McCarthy (and they shouldn't be lumped in with people like Green & Cox) have actually proven any better than Irish born players.

Look at Anthony Pilkington. Hyped up like David Beckham, makes miniscule impact and is currently back playing the Championship. Now it's Will Buckley. Rinse repeat for the next flavour of the week.

Whatever about Townsend's era but the likes of Richard Stearman and Will Buckley aren't our lord and saviors. England have a well-publicised talent drain. If a player doesn't have a hope of playing for them what difference are they going to make to us?

I don't have much of a problem with young lads at U-19 and under who make a decision and stick with it but even then there is the rigmarole of changing allegiances if they are talented enough.

[Charlie Darwin]

On the plus side, Pilkington is no longer out of favour.

[Stuttgart88]

Who is suggesting those named players are our lords and saviours? Who hyped up Pilkington to be David Beckham?

I think Pilkington is a useful addition to the squad and we may see more of him. I think Buckley could be a useful squad addition. Note choice of words: "useful" and "squad".

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

On the plus side, Pilkington is no longer out of favour.

Pilkington - so in favour that Norwich rathered that he didn't come to the stadium on match days as part of squads during the second half of last season before (surprise, surprise) being sold to Cardiff. "He won't go there."

[Charlie Darwin]

I wouldn't go down the route of reporting message board gossip as fact.

[DannyInvincible]

I don't understand the diaspora argument really.

What's the "diaspora argument" exactly?


And since the late 90's, a miniscule amount of foreign born players outside of McGeady & McCarthy (and they shouldn't be lumped in with people like Green & Cox) have actually proven any better than Irish born players.

Why do you have it in for Green and Cox? Did McCarthy have a "first choice"?


If a player doesn't have a hope of playing for them what difference are they going to make to us?

Eh? But what if he can make a difference? We should automatically ignore him because England never declared an interest? Why would the fact that a player isn't desired by the FA necessarily mean he can't prove a useful addition to our squad? Isn't St. Ledger a good example of an England-born player who's proved useful from recent times? Nobody's forcing us to select England-born players, nor are England-born players being selected for the sake of it and at the expense of better Ireland-born players; they'll be selected if they're eligible, willing and good enough to make a difference to the squad.

[Paddy Garcia]

O'Leary has offered him free flights if he declares for us.

............ no hope now I guess.

[geysir]

O'Leary has offered him free flights if he declares for us.

............ no hope now I guess.
Free flight yes, but has to pay for check-in bag, seat, priority boarding, credit card surcharge, glass of water, etc etc.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Lolz.

[tetsujin1979]

Disgraceful publicity stunt!

The sooner this joker declares for England the better.

He's been offered the chance to be selected for the Ireland senior squad with a view to playing, but turned it down.

That says it all to me, we don't need or want any player who sees Ireland as their second choice, anyone who thinks different is a fool!

you have until the end of the day to find proof he was offered a chance - direct quotes from the player or manager - or you can have a day off to think about what you've done

[Stuttgart88]

Didn't Grealish actually say O'Neill didn't ask him to come along to the senior squad? Grealish said that he really appreciated the lack of pressure and that he appreciated how O'Neill respected the situation.

[the doc]

you have until the end of the day to find proof he was offered a chance - direct quotes from the player or manager - or you can have a day off to think about what you've done

?
Get real!

[DannyInvincible]

we don't need or want any player who sees Ireland as their second choice, anyone who thinks different is a fool!

When was it again that you got your passport sorted to play for Ireland, Sean?

[the doc]

Didn't Grealish actually say O'Neill didn't ask him to come along to the senior squad? Grealish said that he really appreciated the lack of pressure and that he appreciated how O'Neill respected the situation.

You've been reading too many fairy tales......

And they all lived happily together again!

[the doc]

Sean?
Wrong!
I was born in Ireland!

[DannyInvincible]

Sean?
Wrong!
I was born in Ireland!

OK, I'll play along... So when was it that Sean St. Ledger got his passport sorted to play for Ireland?

[Predator]

OK, I'll play along... So when was it that Sean St. Ledger got his passport sorted to play for Ireland?I know my football and Sean St Ledger is no Jack Grealish, that's for sure!

[the doc]

I know my football and Sean St Ledger is no Jack Grealish, that's for sure!

Have you seen Jacko play much?
No doubt you will be cheering him on for England in the future.

Grealo = Much ado about nothing, another Daniel Nardiello, he will fade away quicker than a cheap T Shirt!

Lambo's only talking him up to divert attention away from his dreadful Villa team.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Didn't Grealish actually say O'Neill didn't ask him to come along to the senior squad? Grealish said that he really appreciated the lack of pressure and that he appreciated how O'Neill respected the situation.

Every source I have read has stated that he turned down an invite to link up with the squad.

[Stuttgart88]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/jack-grealish-willing-to-take-his-time-on-big-decisions-30578518.html

Grealish saying he and his dad wouldn't have appreciated O'Neill putting him on the spot, and he didn't so it was all fine and dandy and they respected O'Neill for that.

There's another quote from Grealish subsequent to the one above which suggests that O'Neill didn't formally invite him to join up and that O'Neill was very softly softly. I guess it's a question of semantics really. What's a formal invitation versus an informal one Blah blah blah? That's enough out there to suit any viewpoint if you want it to.

I'll see if I can dig up the subsequent quote.

[geysir]

Sounded to me as if O'Neill did broach the issue of him joining the senior squad but did so very softly softly.
There were no real quotes to support that Grealish would have been called up to that squad, except what one would infer from what both (Grealish and O'Neill) were stressing afterwards, namely the need for Grealish to take his time about senior intl commitments.