Jack Grealish

[tetsujin1979]

I told mammy to get off the phone .

Here ye go


Kevin Grealish interview in todays times


http://i.imgur.com/x0J1ZTt.jpg

Thanks for the snap. Can't see how anyone can read anything into what his dad says there. There's nothing in the interview that we didn't already know.

[youngirish]

All this hysteria for an 18 year old with 23 minutes of Premiership football under his belt and who hardly pulled up trees in League 1 last year for a struggling Notts County team. I could understand it if he had a dozen games at the top level and a couple of goals but 23 minutes? Comical.

[Charlie Darwin]

Isn't that what I was saying all along yet people accused me of misinterpreting his words/wumming/being cynical.
It's what everybody has been saying. We all know he's been keeping his options open because he hasn't made a final decision yet. That's not the reason people get annoyed with you at all.


All this hysteria for an 18 year old with 23 minutes of Premiership football under his belt and who hardly pulled up trees in League 1 last year for a struggling Notts County team. I could understand it if he had a dozen games at the top level and a couple of goals but 23 minutes? Comical.
Anybody watching Notts County could tell you he did pull up trees once he became used to the physical side of the game and by the end had become their most important player. He's been tipped for big things for years because of his potential, and now he's overcome the obstacle most promising young players fall at, translating their talent at boy's level to men's football.

[back of the net]

Actually, I have very little contact with players on twitter, although Anthony Stokes and James McClean follow me. I think McClean's closed his account again though. I had a brief conversation with Stephen McPhail's wife once after he was booked and I posted it to twitter!
Anyway, thanks for the nomination, but I'm declining it. I'm not adding my voice to number of messages he already gets on a daily basis. See for yourself - https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=to%3Ajackgrealish1
some excerpts:
https://twitter.com/CillianDoyle13/status/503192755208982528

https://twitter.com/Hasher83/status/502904296623833089

https://twitter.com/DeanFlynn85/status/502902624094797824

https://twitter.com/bazzyboo4/status/503110865772875776

I wasn't aware he was ever involved with England at underage level, in any capacity

he hasn't responded to any of these messages, so I doubt he'd reply to me either



Jesus - im cringing with embarassment at some of those "declare for Ireland" twitter msgs sent to jack

"#betterthanGlenwhelan" --- jesus i never realised Jack could do a job in Glens role!!!!....sweet mother of god!

The last thing the lad needs is nonsense like this to be thrown at him - he is a kid - he needs to be left alone

[back of the net]

Thanks for the snap. Can't see how anyone can read anything into what his dad says there. There's nothing in the interview that we didn't already know.

Tbh Tets - i agree - his dad says nothing more than what the general reports were saying during the week on the o'neill / grealish meeting - the guy has options - he needs to take a step back and decide because he is about to begin what is hopefully for him a long succesful professional career.....nothing reported we all didnt know already

[tetsujin1979]

Jesus - im cringing with embarassment at some of those "declare for Ireland" twitter msgs sent to jack

"#betterthanGlenwhelan" --- jesus i never realised Jack could do a job in Glens role!!!!....sweet mother of god!

The last thing the lad needs is nonsense like this to be thrown at him - he is a kid - he needs to be left alone
Exactly, and that's been my opinion since the beginning. It's his decision to make, let him make it, don't force it on him.

[DannyInvincible]

He has consistently talked of playing for Ireland only in the present tense, refusing to get drawn into making firm statements committing to the future. He said something like he'd have been excited by the summer senior friendlies, none of which would have tied him.

He did state the following:


For the next couple of years, I want to play for Ireland.


Long-term, the aim is to do well with Ireland and Villa. It was very flattering to hear Martin O'Neill speak about me recently and that's a sign that I am doing something right. It was good to hear he knows who I am, Martin was first-team manager at Villa when I was on the books there, but there's no way he would have known who I was.

...

I would love to play for the senior team and with all the games they have lined up for the summer it could happen, but for now I am just enjoying every game and every cap with the U21s.

Whilst possibly somewhat ambiguous and, admittedly, not entirely committal, he has certainly stated that we are (or at least were) in his future plans.

[youngirish]

Anybody watching Notts County could tell you he did pull up trees once he became used to the physical side of the game and by the end had become their most important player. He's been tipped for big things for years because of his potential, and now he's overcome the obstacle most promising young players fall at, translating their talent at boy's level to men's football.
I'm not sure 23 minutes in 2 substitute appearances is proof of him fulfilling any great talent. Nor is a few appearances for a very poor League 1 team.

From what I've heard he wasn't Notts County's best player by any stretch. He showed glimpses of talent but struggled to impose himself on games.

Personally I'd wait until he has at least half a season of regular first team Premiership appearances before I'd even start to consider that he might become a player.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm not sure 23 minutes in 2 substitute appearances is proof of him fulfilling any great talent. Nor is a few appearances for a very poor League 1 team.

From what I've heard he wasn't Notts County's best player by any stretch. He showed glimpses of talent but struggled to impose himself on games.

Personally I'd wait until he has at least half a season of regular first team Premiership appearances before I'd even start to consider that he might become a player.
I didn't say anything about his appearances for Aston Villa. I said he had overcome the obstacle that the majority of youth footballers never overcome, the transition from playing amongst his peers to playing senior men's professional football, which he did at Notts County to such a extent that he's now on the fringes of a Premier League team.

If you heard he wasn't one of their best players then you haven't been listening to the right people. For example:

Leigh Curtis, a football journalist with the Nottingham Post, recently kicked off a column with the introduction: “As much as it has been delightful to watch Jack Grealish’s undeniable brilliance there have been times we have done so through splayed fingers.
“The winger’s Houdini-like ability to escape impossible situations has tortured many defenders in recent weeks and their only way to stop him has been through nefarious means.
“There is growing concern, however, that he is being deliberately targeted and it would be a very hard case to argue against given recent evidence.”

I can find plenty more examples if you need them.

You might need to see half a season of Premier League performances to think he might become a player, but there are plenty of people who watch enough football at a lower level to be able to spot talent and potential - it's what the best scouts are paid to do - and it's pretty clear he has the potential to be a brilliant player and so far he's on schedule to deliver on his talent.

[Olé Olé]

A very worrying line from his father in that article, for me, is the following:

I had a smashing conversation with Martin and he is a top bloke. I know he has got limitations to work with but he is the right bloke for the job.

Lest people think I'm referring to Kevin Grealish's persistence use of the very English word 'bloke', I'm rather referring to the fact that he believes MO'N 'has got limitations to work with.' Basically, I'd construe that as him doubting the our current squad is up to much. I guess, when his son is getting so much attention from MO'N and, apparently, not a sausage from Roy Hodgson then this perception is understandable (and some would deem it a reality).

Clearly, they are considering the England option. They're within their rights to do so. He might, ultimately, plump for Ireland. We'll see.

After seeing Michael Keane perform quite well today, I'd hate to see another prospect slip through our fingers.

[youngirish]

If you heard he wasn't one of their best players then you haven't been listening to the right people. For example:

Leigh Curtis, a football journalist with the Nottingham Post, recently kicked off a column with the introduction: “As much as it has been delightful to watch Jack Grealish’s undeniable brilliance there have been times we have done so through splayed fingers.
“The winger’s Houdini-like ability to escape impossible situations has tortured many defenders in recent weeks and their only way to stop him has been through nefarious means.
“There is growing concern, however, that he is being deliberately targeted and it would be a very hard case to argue against given recent evidence.”

I can find plenty more examples if you need them.

The sort of drivel you see on here a lot. You pick out a single opinion and that in some way validates your statement that he had become their most important player. Read the fans opinions, the people who actually watched him. I don't think many seem to agree with your claim that he was their most important player but I'm sure you know best:

http://prideofnottingham.co.uk/community/topic/1623-end-of-season-player-ratings-and-in-or-out/



You might need to see half a season of Premier League performances to think he might become a player, but there are plenty of people who watch enough football at a lower level to be able to spot talent and potential - it's what the best scouts are paid to do - and it's pretty clear he has the potential to be a brilliant player and so far he's on schedule to deliver on his talent



On schedule to deliver talent based on what metrics? Stokes, Garvan and Sean Thornton had all achieved more than him at his age and not one turned out to be a world beater. It's like groundhog day on here. Young Irish player gets into a Premiership squad, makes a couple of substitute appearances and the next thing you know he's going to be the next Ronaldo. Said player ends up in an average Championship team, new player appears on the horizon, repeat ad infinitum. Yawn.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I didn't say anything about his appearances for Aston Villa. I said he had overcome the obstacle that the majority of youth footballers never overcome, the transition from playing amongst his peers to playing senior men's professional football, which he did at Notts County to such a extent that he's now on the fringes of a Premier League team.

If you heard he wasn't one of their best players then you haven't been listening to the right people. For example:

Leigh Curtis, a football journalist with the Nottingham Post, recently kicked off a column with the introduction: “As much as it has been delightful to watch Jack Grealish’s undeniable brilliance there have been times we have done so through splayed fingers.
“The winger’s Houdini-like ability to escape impossible situations has tortured many defenders in recent weeks and their only way to stop him has been through nefarious means.
“There is growing concern, however, that he is being deliberately targeted and it would be a very hard case to argue against given recent evidence.”

I can find plenty more examples if you need them.

You might need to see half a season of Premier League performances to think he might become a player, but there are plenty of people who watch enough football at a lower level to be able to spot talent and potential - it's what the best scouts are paid to do - and it's pretty clear he has the potential to be a brilliant player and so far he's on schedule to deliver on his talent.

By all accounts, the beginning and end of his spell with Notts County was marked by patchy form. He did have a run of good form, as was referenced in the article - and did emerge with a few moments of magic - courtesy of comedy defending. It's League One at the end of the day.

TBH, I share youngirish exasperation. There were people clamoring for a call-up in the immediate aftermath of his stoppage time cameo against Man City last season. Seriously.

There are plenty of other young English players rated a lot higher than Jack Grealish that made a bigger impression at a higher level before settling into mediocrity. I think, in our desperation, we are all a little guilty of over-hyping him due to the aforementioned lack of talent that Kevin politely referred to in his interview.

Personally, I don't know why he is in the U-21 national team. Give his place in the squad to someone who is committed. I don't think there is anything to lose. If he is good enough to play for England he's good enough. If he isn't good enough we will get him. Either way we are in for at least another year of ambiguity.

[Charlie Darwin]

The sort of drivel you see on here a lot. You pick out a single opinion and that in some way validates your statement that he had become their most important player. Read the fans opinions, the people who actually watched him. I don't think many seem to agree with your claim that he was their most important player but I'm sure you know best:

http://prideofnottingham.co.uk/community/topic/1623-end-of-season-player-ratings-and-in-or-out/
I said I could provide more examples if you needed them. I think it's a matter of basic courtesy that you should ask me for them before accusing me of being selective. And really? You bang on about me being selective and then you cite the opinions of two (TWO!) fans that are very complimentary and rank him as one of the top five and top two players of the season respectively. I'd say that's pretty solid evidence that those two (TWO!) fans thought he was up there as one of their top performers.


On schedule to deliver talent based on what metrics? Stokes, Garvan and Sean Thornton had all achieved more than him at his age and not one turned out to be a world beater. It's like groundhog day on here. Young Irish player gets into a Premiership squad, makes a couple of substitute appearances and the next thing you know he's going to be the next Ronaldo. Said player ends up in an average Championship team, new player appears on the horizon, repeat ad infinitum. Yawn.
Eh, those players were on course to deliver on their talent too. I never said Grealish will be a great player, I said he looks on course to deliver on his potential, but he very easily might not. Nobody said he was a world beater and nobody said he was going to be the next Ronaldo. We just said he has the makings of a big player, which he does, and I'd thank you to stop inventing arguments and actually deal with what people have actually said for a change.

[the doc]

He's hanging in there for England,
I've no time for players who can't decide on which county to declare for.
Follow your heart, that's what I'd do, Ireland all the way and proud.

[Charlie Darwin]

What you would do, Sean, or what you did do?

[tetsujin1979]

By all accounts, the beginning and end of his spell with Notts County was marked by patchy form. He did have a run of good form, as was referenced in the article - and did emerge with a few moments of magic - courtesy of comedy defending. It's League One at the end of the day.

TBH, I share youngirish exasperation. There were people clamoring for a call-up in the immediate aftermath of his stoppage time cameo against Man City last season. Seriously.

There are plenty of other young English players rated a lot higher than Jack Grealish that made a bigger impression at a higher level before settling into mediocrity. I think, in our desperation, we are all a little guilty of over-hyping him due to the aforementioned lack of talent that Kevin politely referred to in his interview.

Personally, I don't know why he is in the U-21 national team. Give his place in the squad to someone who is committed. I don't think there is anything to lose. If he is good enough to play for England he's good enough. If he isn't good enough we will get him. Either way we are in for at least another year of ambiguity.
At the end of his loan spell, he was nominated for the Player of the Month award for League One in April - http://www.football-league.co.uk/league1/news/20140501/sky-bet-league-1-player-of-the-month-nominations_2293324_3797081 - so I don't know where this accusation of "patchy form" comes from

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Patchy or sporadic. Maybe poor choice of words or confusing on my part but I remember he did have a considerable amount of mediocre games in Spring time.

Ronan Murray and Alan Sheehan were a couple of Notts County's star players during their relegation escape. Perhaps we should call them up too?

[gastric]

Patchy or sporadic. Maybe poor choice of words or confusing on my part but I remember he did have a considerable amount of mediocre games in Spring time.

Ronan Murray and Alan Sheehan were a couple of Notts County's star players during their relegation escape. Perhaps we should call them up too?

TOWK you 're loving this as you seem to feel it gives credence to some of your comments. The fact that you now make this comparison shows your knowledge of football and nationality is somewhat limited.
Grealish is a potential star and would be great for us. Tets and Charlie are making sense on here, I think many on here would do well to listen to them.
On the fact that he has only 23 minutes EPL experience, Jim Beglin, Steve Staunton and Michael Owens are examples of players who played internationally with little or no first team experience. Failures the lot of them! MONROY know what they are doing and if they say Grealish is ready, he must be!

[ArdeeBhoy]

I'll pack my boots.

Nah, you're too old...
;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

England seems to produce more Muslim terrorists than quality footballers these days.

And the US...

[back of the net]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/dont-put-pressure-on-grealish-to-rush-his-decision-30533532.html

[tetsujin1979]

Patchy or sporadic. Maybe poor choice of words or confusing on my part but I remember he did have a considerable amount of mediocre games in Spring time.

Ronan Murray and Alan Sheehan were a couple of Notts County's star players during their relegation escape. Perhaps we should call them up too?
Really? Which performances from the 14 games he played in Spring 2014 (13 in League One, 1 Premier League appearance) would you class as mediocre, bearing in mind that his performances in five of them led to a player of the month nomination in April?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

TOWK you 're loving this as you seem to feel it gives credence to some of your comments. The fact that you now make this comparison shows your knowledge of football and nationality is somewhat limited.
Grealish is a potential star and would be great for us. Tets and Charlie are making sense on here, I think many on here would do well to listen to them.
On the fact that he has only 23 minutes EPL experience, Jim Beglin, Steve Staunton and Michael Owens are examples of players who played internationally with little or no first team experience. Failures the lot of them! MONROY know what they are doing and if they say Grealish is ready, he must be!

LOL gastric, first of all you have a grudge against me and this has colored every single one of our exchanges. At least Charwin and Tets are able to debate something in a more coherent way than you just put forth.

My knowledge of football and nationality is not limited. Grealish is not ready for International football and/or Premier League football. The only reason that he was called up to the squad for the Oman and Georgia games was to curry favor with him; it has always been the case. Prospectively bringing someone on as a substitute, in stoppage time against Georgia, in order to tie him is cynical.

My reading is that Grealish wants to play for Ireland in the short-term and wants to play for England in the long-term. He hasn't switched to England at underage level because if he played competitively it would tie him. It's only apropos. The lad supports our U-21 team and supports England.

He would not be great for us! He could be great for us. Michael Reddy, Keith O'Neill, Sean Thornton, Owen Garvan, Anthony Stokes and Conor Henderson could have been great for us too. I have yet to see a single national English source hyping up Grealish; only regional sources. I'm very skeptical that England are desperate for his services. And for reasons already explained - for whatever their worth - I doubt he's under that much external pressure to switch countries and if he is, I've only heard it from him, his father or his brother.

Michael Owen? You're comparing him to Michael Owen. Wow.

[Olé Olé]

He would not be great for us! He could be great for us. Michael Reddy, Keith O'Neill, Sean Thornton, Owen Garvan, Anthony Stokes and Conor Henderson could have been great for us too. I have yet to see a single national English source hyping up Grealish; only regional sources. I'm very skeptical that England are desperate for his services. And for reasons already explained - for whatever their worth - I doubt he's under that much external pressure to switch countries and if he is, I've only heard it from him, his father or his brother.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2260119/Englands-future-15-teen-stars-YOU-excited-about.html

There was a lot of talk of external pressure being put on Michael Keane and Sean McGinty. Keane did switch to England. His profile and appearance count at senior club level was far less than Grealish's at that point.

[tetsujin1979]

Just to throw some high octane on this inferno, Aiden McGeady had only played underage football for Ireland, had spoken with the Berti Vogts (the Scotland manager at the time) but still went on to play for Ireland at international level, and was 18 when he made his debut for the senior team.

[youngirish]

On the fact that he has only 23 minutes EPL experience, Jim Beglin, Steve Staunton and Michael Owens are examples of players who played internationally with little or no first team experience.
Is this the same Steve Staunton who'd broken into the Liverpool first team at the start of the season and who had become a regular starter for the best team in the league before he made his Ireland debut about 2 months later?

Is this the same Michael Owen who was Liverpool's first choice striker and top scorer before he made his England debut?

Is this the same Jim Beglin. Sorry my mistake, you were right about him. One out of three isn't bad.

Some other notables you forgot to mention who made their Ireland debuts before establishing themselves at their respective clubs include the following household names:
Alan O'Brien, the prolific Joseph Lapira, Cillian Sheridan, Graham Barrett, Joe O'Cearuill, Darren Potter and Alan Maybury. All went on to be superstars we can all agree.

[Stuttgart88]

Had Staunton played for Liverpool before his Euro 88 call up? My recollection is that it was a major surprise, and there was very little fanfare for his inclusion. I'm guessing his first cap came the following season.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.suttoncoldfieldobserver.co.uk/Villa-youngster-snub-Roy-Keane-s-Ireland/story-22816799-detail/story.html

Villa boss Paul Lambert commented on the potentially difficult situation after the game with Newcastle at the weekend, saying: "Jack will do what's right. There's no pressure from me whatsoever."

[the doc]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2260119/Englands-future-15-teen-stars-YOU-excited-about.html

There was a lot of talk of external pressure being put on Michael Keane and Sean McGinty. Keane did switch to England. His profile and appearance count at senior club level was far less than Grealish's at that point.

Michael Keanes another Clark over hyped but in reality, brutal!

Clarks 5th choice at his club now that says it all, another Foot ie great green hope found out as not up to it.

When will people take the green tinted glasses off and see these type of players for what they are?

[Stuttgart88]

5th choice is better than no choice!

When Clark arrived on the club scene he did pretty well. He actually played defensive midfield for a while and scored a lovely volley at home to Arsenal. It wasn't unrealistic to be excited about his potential back then.

[geysir]

Had Staunton played for Liverpool before his Euro 88 call up? My recollection is that it was a major surprise, and there was very little fanfare for his inclusion. I'm guessing his first cap came the following season.
I think that's an old confusion you have, Staunton's first Finals were at WC1990.
Somehow Staunton and 1988 has stayed stuck in your memory.
Nevertheless (by default) your point stands, Staunton had just played one league game for Liverpool before making his intl debut in Oct 1988
His situation was similar to Grealish.
He became a regular for Liverpool later that season, so Young Irish's tendency to put his foot into his mouth has reoccured.

[Stuttgart88]

Was he on standby or something for Euro88? I'm almost certain the first time I really heard of him was before that tournament.

[geysir]

Was he on standby or something for Euro88? I'm almost certain the first time I really heard of him was before that tournament.
Maybe it was something like that, he was considered for the final squad and just missed out.
However, he watched the Finals in Ireland.
Therefore that happened before he started for Liverpool in a league game.

[youngirish]

I think that's an old confusion you have, Staunton's first Finals were at WC1990.
Somehow Staunton and 1988 has stayed stuck in your memory.
Nevertheless (by default) your point stands, Staunton had just played one league game for Liverpool before making his intl debut in Oct 1988
His situation was similar to Grealish.
He became a regular for Liverpool later that season, so Young Irish's tendency to put his foot into his mouth has reoccured.

Ah geysir the fountain of all ignorance. Surely if you're going to pull me up on something you'd think you could have checked your information as I'm sure we've been here many times before with you spouting facts that were subsequently and fairly rapidly proven to be nonsense. Who said anything about league games anyway?

Staunton had made 5 appearances early in the season for Liverpool before getting a cap for Ireland. 3 of them (not 1) were in the league, I see numbers are also not your strong point. Get this, he scored a goal in one of those appearances.

Also he was making a serious claim for a starting position in the dominant English club of the 70s and 80s, equivalent today to an 18 year old starting and scoring for the likes of Manchester City or Chelsea. I personally see this as more impressive than playing 23 minutes for a team most pundits think will struggle near the wrong end of the table but each to their own. Reality can be a bitter pill to swallow.

But hey don't let facts get in the way when making your point. Why break the habit of a lifetime now?

My main point still stands for every Staunton (5 senior appearances and 1 goal) that we cap there are 10 Alan O'Briens that fade into obscurity.

Jack Grealish is just the current flavour of the month on foot.ie the same as Stokes has been, Owen Garvan, Lee Trundle (seriously), Darren O'Dea, Liam Miller, Terry Dixon etc, etc, etc. All hyped up unreasonably with little or no justification and not one amounted to anything more than a decent Championship player.

[geysir]

Ah geysir the fountain of all ignorance. Surely if you're going to pull me up on something you'd think you could have checked your information as I'm sure we've been here many times before with you spouting facts that were subsequently and fairly rapidly proven to be nonsense. Who said anything about league games anyway?

Staunton had made 5 appearances early in the season for Liverpool before getting a cap for Ireland. 3 of them (not 1) were in the league, I see numbers are also not your strong point. Get this, he scored a goal in one of those appearances.

Also he was making a serious claim for a starting position in the dominant English club of the 70s and 80s, equivalent today to an 18 year old starting and scoring for the likes of Manchester City or Chelsea. I personally see this as more impressive than playing 23 minutes for a team most pundits think will struggle near the wrong end of the table but each to their own. Reality can be a bitter pill to swallow.

But hey don't let facts get in the way when making your point. Why break the habit of a lifetime now?

My main point still stands for every Staunton (5 senior appearances and 1 goal) that we cap there are 10 Alan O'Briens that fade into obscurity.

Jack Grealish is just the current flavour of the month on foot.ie the same as Stokes has been, Owen Garvan, Lee Trundle (seriously), Darren O'Dea, Liam Miller, Terry Dixon etc, etc, etc.
All hyped up unreasonably with little or no justification and not one amounted to anything more than a decent Championship player.

You still haven't grown out of your loud, uncouth sarcastic ways Young Irish.
You claimed Staunton was a regular starter in the Liverpool team before he was capped by ireland.
Staunton was considered for the Euro 88 squad as Stutts has stated, he was left out with Mark Kelly and Charlton gave them a rented car to do a holiday as compensation of sorts. That happened before he made a league debut for Liverpool.
His first start for Liverpool in a league game was Oct 1st (http://www.lfchistory.net/Players/Player/GamesPerSeason/418-30) he had also played a league cup game and a charity game for Liverpool before he was capped.
He was capped for Ireland 19th Oct 1988 and he was far from being a regular starter with Liverpool which happened late November when a regular defender got injured.

[DannyInvincible]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/dont-put-pressure-on-grealish-to-rush-his-decision-30533532.html

That's a good piece. Well worth a read.


My reading is that Grealish wants to play for Ireland in the short-term and wants to play for England in the long-term. He hasn't switched to England at underage level because if he played competitively it would tie him. It's only apropos. The lad supports our U-21 team and supports England.

He has stated before that we're in his long-term plans, or, at least, we were at some point before the summer. He's not said his long-term plans are to play with England, nor has he suggested that he'll jump ship if England do come forth with a better offer than with what they've been tempting him already, so you're just cynically speculating when you assert that "he wants to play for England in the long-term". Chances are he'd turn England down due the attachment and bond he has built with Irish team-mates and figures working for the FAI. He has never said he supports England to our exclusion either. The one thing we can be certain of right now is that he's a young (and possibly muddled) dual national who does not want to be rushed into making an irreversible and life-changing decision.

I think it's worth quoting some of McDonnell's piece here:


...

No youngster should be condemned for considering every other option available.

In an era where aspiring footballers are guilty of rash and unthinking behaviour, the maturity to step back before diving headlong into a lifelong commitment is understandable.

Of course, it would be wonderful if all Irish diaspora had the absolute conviction of a young Kevin Kilbane, who angered Sam Allardyce at Preston by flatly refusing an English underage call.

Grealish, to be fair, has rejected FA advances before now. FIFA's rules can leave teenagers in a bind if they represent one country in a competitive underage fixture and then change to another before concluding they want to go back to their original.

This is the reason that Manchester United youngster Michael Keane, capped for Ireland at U-17 level, is now bound to England after switching to wear their colours from U-19 level upwards. The 21-year-old cannot return to Irish colours in the future.

However, his twin brother Will, who rejected Ireland as a teen, can now give the FAI a call if it fails to work out with England. Both Keanes are 21 and haven't quite progressed to the extent of being on Roy Hodgson's radar. But it's the indecisive youth who left a foot in both camps that is snookered in the long term.

Martin O'Neill met Grealish last week and chose his words carefully when he discussed the issue publicly.

This is a delicate matter and, to use language from another form of courtship, there is little to be gained from coming on too strong. In a social media world, Grealish is only a click away from punters more than willing to offer feedback on his situation. Emotive responses serve no purpose.

There are people who believe there should be no grey area and look unkindly upon any form of procrastination.

Such an irrational approach is unwelcome in an era where pressure is placed on the shoulders of the cubs.

O'Neill delivered a telling response last week when asked if English clubs prefer a player with dual eligibility to lean towards their FA. "I'd say you have a point there," he replied.

International football is a privilege but in the baby steps of their football journey, these players have to be conscious of what their paymasters say.

We know that the Irish jersey has been worn with distinction by players who, given the choice, would have gone a different route to Kilbane. They just never got that chance.

In recent years, the well of useful adult granny rule recruits has run dry. The best work has come from identifying promising kids, putting the groundwork in and making them feel welcome. With McCarthy, that approach worked.

Grealish has made friends in the Irish camp and was selected in Noel King's U-21 squad on Friday. "He's happy to play for us," said King.

Add in Roy Keane's presence at Aston Villa and there are plenty of reasons to be cautiously optimistic.

Calm heads are essential. What Grealish needs is space, not grief.

Out of interest, does it pain you when you feel compelled to support England-born Irish players proudly wearing the green with distinction who might otherwise have ended up wearing the white of England had they had the chance?

I think McDonnell also makes a good point as to why these sorts of cases cause us such great collective anxiety. If our own system of player development was a strong and reliable one, we wouldn't have to be worrying so much about losing talented Irish nationals with dual nationality to the association representing their birthplace nationality. As McDonnell wrote: "Irish fans might feel that history is repeating considering the anxiety that preceded James McCarthy's senior breakthrough. This is what happens when your own system is inadequate."

[youngirish]

You still haven't grown out of your loud, uncouth sarcastic ways Young Irish.
You claimed Staunton was a regular starter in the Liverpool team before he was capped by ireland.
Staunton was considered for the Euro 88 squad as Stutts has stated, he was left out with Mark Kelly and Charlton gave them a rented car to do a holiday as compensation of sorts. That happened before he made a league debut for Liverpool.
His first start for Liverpool in a league game was Oct 1st (http://www.lfchistory.net/Players/Player/GamesPerSeason/418-30) he had also played a league cup game and a charity game for Liverpool before he was capped.
He was capped for Ireland 19th Oct 1988 and he was far from being a regular starter with Liverpool which happened late November when a regular defender got injured.
Before he made his international debut on 19th October 88 he had started the previous 3 out of 5 games for Liverpool. That's regular enough for me. I never said guaranteed.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Should we be pained, DI? Presuming they made a free choice, despite dual (or more) qualification...

Or did you mean something slightly different?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

DI

I'm sure you'll just compulsively disagree with everything I say yet again but here goes....

Ireland have never been in his long-term plans. He doesn't know what his long-term plans are. I suspect that they are determined on a number of factors, some beyond his control. He implied that he was looking forward to a prospective call up during the summer several months ago and then turned it down when it came. No, he indeed hasn't suggested that he will jump ship to England but what conclusions are we supposed to draw from him turning down a call up to the Ireland senior team when to my knowledge he hasn't even been offered a call up to the England U-21 team? I believe he said he supported the senior England national team and the Ireland U-21 team (or something to that effect). I'm open to correction on that. Yes. He doesn't want to get capped by Ireland in a competitive game because it will prevent him from playing for England and he doesn't want to play competitively for England at underage level for similar reasons. He's not a child. He is a grown man and he has had plenty of time to ascertain what national team he wants to play for. It's not a life or death decision at the end of the day. Worst case scenario he plays for Ireland more than he ever will for England (if he actually merits it) and doesn't get to play in as many tournaments, or he becomes a bit part player for England. I think that's where the existential crisis comes from; marketing reasons too perhaps. Maybe he won't get a Brylcreem sponsorship deal if he declares for us. :p

I know I'm going to get mocked for this but it's a first world problem isn't it? There are 12 year old children fighting wars these days yet I am supposed to feel some kind of empathy for a 19 year old footballer, who already earns more in a month than I do in a year, over what country he plays for, because he is a young man?

It doesn't pain me. I get over it and try not to think about it too much as it goes beyond my control. I support the team whoever plays. What pains me is someone playing all through the age groups for one country, turning down a call up for the senior team and taking a place in the U-21 team of someone who may want to play for his country whenever he gets the call.

Personally, I don't have any anxiety over losing Granny rule players. The best eligible players play for England and the players who do end up declaring are not world beaters.

That's just my opinion anyways. Cynical as it may be. What some find cynical, others may find hopeful.

What will be will be.

[Crosby87]

Any of you going to UCF vs Penn ST at Croke? That will take your minds off this.

[Charlie Darwin]

Bit of a discussion on it on Soccer Republic just now with Richie Sadlier and Dave Barry. A bit more measured than some opinions we've heard.

[DannyInvincible]

Should we be pained, DI? Presuming they made a free choice, despite dual (or more) qualification...

Or did you mean something slightly different?

I was directing the question at TOWK rather than to the board generally. I don't see why it should pain anyone to get behind an England-born Irish international player giving his all for Ireland who might also have (seriously) considered playing for the country of his birth at some point, but I had gotten the impression that TOWK has little time for such players because they don't neatly fit into his simplistic and over-presumptuous world view of seeing everything in black or white. He has belittled the integrity of the likes of Simon Cox, Paul Green and Anthony Pilkington in the past. So, I was wondering did it pain him to get behind the likes of Andy Townsend or Clinton Morrison when they gave their all for us? Or will it pain him to support Jack Grealish when he next wears an Ireland shirt? It appears he begrudgingly sweeps it under the carpet.


DI

I'm sure you'll just compulsively disagree with everything I say yet again but here goes....

I'm sure I have agreed with you before. Once or twice. :p


He doesn't know what his long-term plans are. I suspect that they are determined on a number of factors, some beyond his control. He implied that he was looking forward to a prospective call up during the summer several months ago and then turned it down when it came.

So you at least acknowledge he's confused and unsure of what to do really?


No, he indeed hasn't suggested that he will jump ship to England but what conclusions are we supposed to draw from him turning down a call up to the Ireland senior team when to my knowledge he hasn't even been offered a call up to the England U-21 team?

Maybe we could simply conclude that he doesn't want to commit to an irreversible and life-changing decision so early in his life?


I believe he said he supported the senior England national team and the Ireland U-21 team (or something to that effect). I'm open to correction on that.

I've re-quoted the tweets plenty of times for you but you're putting words in his mouth with the above interpretation by giving the impression that he supports England to the exclusion of ourselves. Just because he expressed support on Twitter for England doesn't mean there's no place in his heart for our senior team either. Dual nationals will, more often than not, support more than one country.


He's not a child. He is a grown man and he has had plenty of time to ascertain what national team he wants to play for. It's not a life or death decision at the end of the day.

Don't trivialise it. It's a massive decision for him. It's his profession and livelihood he has to consider here, and a footballer's career is a short one at that. It's easy for you to talk - you're a fan with no split allegiance - but you're not in his boots. Would you have been happy to make all your life-changing decisions at the age of 18?


I know I'm going to get the mocked for this but it's a first world problem isn't it? There are 12 year old children fighting wars these days yet I am supposed to feel some kind of empathy for a 19 year old footballer, who already earns more in a month than I do in a year, over what country he plays for, because he is a young man?

It is a first-world problem and it all pales into general insignificance when you think about the broader world, but we are where we are and we support the Irish national team (or, if you prefer, a bunch of spoilt Irish brats chasing around a ball of, erm, polyurethane :p ), so we find ourselves discussing our interest by virtue of that. Nobody said you have to feel empathy; just give the lad a break. You don't need empathy to stop being so cynical and suspicious. Why can there can be no grey or ambiguity with you? Must everything be as simple as black-or-white, with a heavy dose of pessimistic cynicism usually determining which tone will be favoured?


It doesn't pain me. I get over it and try not to think about it too much as it goes beyond my control. I support the team whoever plays. What pains me is someone playing all through the age groups for one country, turning down a call up for the senior team and taking a place in the U-21 team of someone who may want to play for his country whenever he gets the call.

You really think Grealish is depriving another player of ever being seen by the FAI? As I said before (http://foot.ie/threads/191684-Irish-Abroad-2014-2015?p=1770345&viewfull=1#post1770345), cream rises to the top. Noel King said Jack is happy to play for us. If you have a problem with Grealish being in our under-21 squad, direct your ire at King and the FAI who are more than delighted to continue selecting him. If anything, Grealish's presence should enhance competition for places; not provide a convenient excuse for those who weren't good enough to claim they never got their chance.

[gastric]

Is this the same Steve Staunton who'd broken into the Liverpool first team at the start of the season and who had become a regular starter for the best team in the league before he made his Ireland debut about 2 months later?

Is this the same Michael Owen who was Liverpool's first choice striker and top scorer before he made his England debut?

Is this the same Jim Beglin. Sorry my mistake, you were right about him. One out of three isn't bad.



Some other notables you forgot to mention who made their Ireland debuts before establishing themselves at their respective clubs include the following household names:
Alan O'Brien, the prolific Joseph Lapira, Cillian Sheridan, Graham Barrett, Joe O'Cearuill, Darren Potter and Alan Maybury. All went on to be superstars we can all agree.

One out of the three? I think geysir above mentions that Staunton had played one game for Liverpool before he played for Ireland.
Michael Owen played a few games a the end of the 1996/1997 season and then played consistently at the beginning of the 1997/ 1998 season before he then madehis English debut on the 11 February 1998. That means he had about 6 months experience of first team football which to me means he had little experience when he first played for England. Three out of three IMO!

TOWK , can you learn to read or develop your comprehension skills. I never compared Jack Grealish to Michael Owens in terms of football ability. I compared his age and inexperience when he debuted for England with Grealish's situation. Also stop trying to play the victim, if you are going to continually make inflammatory statements accept the flak that goes with it.

[the doc]

5th choice is better than no choice!

When Clark arrived on the club scene he did pretty well. He actually played defensive midfield for a while and scored a lovely volley at home to Arsenal. It wasn't unrealistic to be excited about his potential back then.

Yet another Foot ie poster refusing to admit he was wrong.

Stutty old chap, surely you must of realised that this Posh old boy knows his footie, toodle pip!

[Olé Olé]

Yet another Foot ie poster refusing to admit he was wrong.

Stutty old chap, surely you must of realised that this Posh old boy knows his footie, toodle pip!

Is it not a bit premature to write off the career of Clark already? He played 27 PL games last season too, by the way. Almost as many minutes as you mustered in the Championship.

[osarusan]

I hope he's not put under too much pressure and makes the choice which is right for himself.

I suppose, the better he gets, the more pressure he'll be under to make a decision one way or the other.

[ArdeeBhoy]

You don't say...

Hopefully he'll never read a lot of the drivel in this thread...

[geysir]

Before he made his international debut on 19th October 88 he had started the previous 3 out of 5 games for Liverpool. That's regular enough for me. I never said guaranteed.
Where did you pick guarantee from?
No one claimed you said guaranteed, you claimed he was a regular starter for Liverpool after breaking into the team at the start of the season
That implies he was a regular starter, picked consistently for the first team, however that did not happen until late November. He was certainly an irregular starter for Liverpool, but was obviously on the road to being a regular.
He was on Charlton's radar before he played for Liverpool's first team, under serious consideration for a Final's squad, already had been called up to a few squads.
There is a strong similarity between Staunton and Beglin's career to Grealish's, at this stage of a player's career in relation to getting attention from the intl manager.

[back of the net]

Richie Dunne seems to be a fan anyway....



"They have tried with Jack Grealish and maybe if he had come in he'd have been in the squad. If we can get hold of him he is a player who can be a star for Ireland for the next 15 years. I've seen him at training [at Aston Villa] and I have seen a couple of clips of him at Notts County and I have seen how good he is. If Ireland can get him it would be brilliant."


http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/tilting-the-world-in-his-direction-30531478.html

[tricky_colour]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6is2wdxrPtU

Looks pretty good here, although I am not sure what standard of player he is up against.

According to this he is playing the M23!!! He beat a whole motorway!!!

Actually it might not have been a motor way rather the Congolese Revolutionary Army, but impressive nonetheless.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_23_Movement


Turn out in reality is was a Hong Kong FA U23 side.



http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/aston-villas-jack-grealish-18-scores-solo-wondergoal-in-hong-kong-tournament-vine/