Celtic Cup thread

[SwanVsDalton]

Has O'Dea??

To be sure I'm not saying the squad is perfect, we're all going to have people in or out. But, in my mind, the squad has progressively included the fit, untested players it should have.

In the case of O'Dea, he - like McShane and Green - are, for better or worse, in possession of a squad berth. It's up to other players to displace them, a task that shouldn't be that difficult. But, for me only a fit McCarthy and Meyler have made a case to do that.

I don't really fancy O'Dea but he's a CB, who can fill in at LB, and those are his natural positions. Ward isn't a centre back and, imo, isn't a particularly good LB, albeit one who gets a run out in the Prem. However poorly stocked we are at LB simply turning out in the Premiership isn't a reason for inclusion.

Who would you have instead of O'Dea? Personally I'd have chosen Bruce (hardly a major upgrade) but he's in decent form for a good team. Or, throwing caution to the wind, Stephen O'Halloran - get him on the training ground to have a look since he could be the best bet long term.

[SkStu]

Calm down. Your comment on a LB who isn't a convincing LB and an injured midfielder not making the squad is histrionically over the top imo and hardly indicative of despicable 'scouting and selection' policies. Especially since those who have made a great case - Clark, Coleman, Stokes - are all included.

Still my response was equally OTT, so I apologise and replace 'get over it' with 'take a deep breath.'

But in terms of 'here we go again', can we ever engage in a squad announcement (not least one for a friendly) without some marginal call resulting in 'won't someone think of the children?!' style reactions? Lively debate's one thing but it's getting a bit self-parodic imo.

im perfectly calm SvD. In fact i am more bemused at this stage. Trappatoni's squad since day one have led me to this state of mind as i realise the futility of getting angry about it. There is also an element of futility in voicing my frustrations on this forum, which you have confirmed for me. How dare we question Il Duce or how dare we hope that the players that we rate get picked ahead of the players he rates which has always been based on a questionable selection/scouting policy.

My reference to "here we go again" was an exasperated reference to my own repetitive criticisms of Trappatonis squads and selection.

[SwanVsDalton]

I guess i share the general sentiments in this thread.

Disappointing to see McShane, Kilbane(no probs with him being there as a sub, but not as a starter, as has been noted he's not even playing LB anymore) and co. still knocking around but at least Clark and Wilson are in, hopefully he doesn't just stick out his usual 11 now(Kilbane, Green, Whelan etc) and gives the new lads a proper run.

Agreed. I don't really mind the squad, it's got enough new faces in it where I will take great issue if he doesn't play them. Coleman, Clark and Wilson should all get good game time.

[TrapAPony]

Ward's not made a convincing case.

Has O'Dea??.
Has Green? Has McShane? Has Keogh? Has Treacy? - all are subs for Championship teams and Kilbane is plying his trade in lowly League one. Might as well call up Lanre Oyebanjo.

[Sullivinho]

At a glance, the notable omissions are Ward and McCarthy right? I think it's now abundantly clear that Trap doesn't rate Ward at all. I thought Cunningham's absence may have opened the door but that possibility can be written off. Another manager may have included McCarthy in anticipation of him getting some games between now and the game. I'm glad I didn't get my hopes up about his inclusion. The usual deadweight suspects making up the numbers. I don't fancy McShane, Green or O'Dea at all at this stage. Is the former even getting a game at Hull? Looking forward to seeing Coleman and Clark. In the starting lineup, please.


Agreed. I don't really mind the squad, it's got enough new faces in it where I will take great issue if he doesn't play them. Coleman, Clark and Wilson should all get good game time.

I agree. Not too upset about the squad but this game is a glorified friendly and should be used accordingly with those names firmly in mind. Green and Kilbane starting would be very disheartening.

[shakermaker1982]

Ward is a LB and plays week in week out for a PL team and doesn't get called up? It's a huge problem area for us. The only person in that squad who I'd be comfortable playing there is O'Shea * correction - Clark can also play there and has done well in the games he has featured for Villa this season.

McCarthy is coming back from injury but I think it would be worthwhile if he was invited to attend the training sessions.

Will he play Coleman, Wilson and Westwood? These guys need the experience. I just fear he is going to play his so called strongest team (in his head) and we'll learn nothing.

[shakermaker1982]

Forgot to put my team down (based on that squad selection)

Westwood

Foley Dunne Clark O'Shea

Coleman Wilson Fahey Duff

Long Doyle

Mixture of youth and experience.

[SwanVsDalton]

im perfectly calm SvD. In fact i am more bemused at this stage. Trappatoni's squad since day one have led me to this state of mind as i realise the futility of getting angry about it. There is also an element of futility in voicing my frustrations on this forum, which you have confirmed for me. How dare we question Il Duce or how dare we hope that the players that we rate get picked ahead of the players he rates which has always been based on a questionable selection/scouting policy.

Come on. There's a broad spectrum of thought on here and my comment was in response to provocatively worded post from yourself. The oft quoted, simplistic view that this forum is fervently pro-Trap doesn't stack up.

There's plenty of debate, questioning of Trap etc. But the stronger the view, the stronger the rebuttal - a questionable selection policy is very much different from a despicable one.

And vice versa - if I was to say 'I don't just support Trap's selection policy, I think his selection of Paul Green is the single most masterful piece of managerial selection since Steve Stauntion and Alan O'Brien', I'd never be allowed to post on here again. Rightly so too.

Anyway tone or justification aside, we'll just debate the points from here on in. Agreeable?

Genuinely, can someone pro-Ward tell me why he should be in? Essentially I don't think his presence in the Prem is reason enough, even with Kilbane in League One. And he hasn't been playing week in week out at LB for a couple of months....

[Scooby Doo]

Trap- on TV3 news a few mins ago.

Said McCarthy was left out because he is just back and that he will continue to 'follow' him and he will get his opportunity in the next game - or something to that effect.

Also hinted that Clarke will get the nod at LB!

http://www.tv3.ie/sport.php

[SkStu]

SvD:

You championed the case of O'Dea based on his ability to play 2 positions (neither particularly well imo). Ward has played at LB, LW and striker in his premiership and championship career. Kilbane is no longer playing premiership, no longer playing championship and no longer playing LB. Can you explain to me what rationale is employed as to why he should be in the squad for a friendly ahead of Stephen Ward who, while not the best LB in the premiership, is of acceptable/passable quality in that position and is also the most versatile Irish player in the Premiership.

I find Traps selection policy, which we are paying a truckload for, to be despicable at worst or lazy at best. His modus operandi is conservative selection, conservative tactics and primitive style aimed at achieving short term success. Only the problem is it hasnt achieved any success unless you count moral victories in the form of 3 draw and a loss to two terrible, if once great, teams. And i dont think that the success element will have changed come the end of this campaign. If that proves to be the case then he needs to go.

[dr_peepee]

Forgot to put my team down (based on that squad selection)

Westwood

Foley Dunne Clark O'Shea

Coleman Wilson Fahey Duff

Long Doyle

Mixture of youth and experience.

I'm personally still not convinced of Fahey in the centre of a midfield four...

[SwanVsDalton]

You championed the case of O'Dea based on his ability to play 2 positions (neither particularly well imo). Ward has played at LB, LW and striker in his premiership and championship career. Kilbane is no longer playing premiership, no longer playing championship and no longer playing LB. Can you explain to me what rationale is employed as to why he should be in the squad for a friendly ahead of Stephen Ward who, while not the best LB in the premiership, is of acceptable/passable quality in that position and is also the most versatile Irish player in the Premiership.

I certainly didn't champion him - I actually said I 'didn't particularly fancy him' and that's not based on his looks - but my main point is he has his hands on a squad berth (like Green and McShane) and in international football it's generally, and often unfairly, up to the omitted to displace the included.

In terms of O'Dea vs Ward, it's not really about versatility as it is about a young player who is a naturally a defender. I think O'Dea's in the squad primarily as a CB, who could fill in at LB at a pinch, and is a natural defender. So I don't see Ward and O'Dea actually going head-to-head for a squad place. As I said above, I think it's more likely to be Duffy, Bruce or maybe O'Halloran taking O'Dea's place.

In terms of Ward getting in the squad at all, he's undoubtedly versatile and I've been particularly impressed with him playing in advanced roles. But at LB he appears suspect to me and not a long term solution to the LB position. Simply playing LB at Prem level isn't a reason enough since there's a lot of question marks over his ability. And unfortunately he may be a victim of his own versatility, because he's not going to get a sniff at LW or up front at the moment.

I will concede I wouldn't have a problem having him in the squad - he deserves a look and it's hard to know what he has to do, though I suspect nailing a starting role in one position (probably advanced) would help. As said, I suspect Trap doesn't rate him.

And as for the LB argument altogether - looks like Clark's in line. He's probably not the long term solution either but he's much better than O'Dea, likely better than Kilbane and actually a natural defender unlike Ward.


I find Traps selection policy, which we are paying a truckload for, to be despicable at worst or lazy at best. His modus operandi is conservative selection, conservative tactics and primitive style aimed at achieving short term success. Only the problem is it hasnt achieved any success unless you count moral victories in the form of 3 draw and a loss to two terrible, if once great, teams. And i dont think that the success element will have changed come the end of this campaign. If that proves to be the case then he needs to go.

If our performances and results don't improve and success doesn't come, then I agree 100% about him going.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm less and less convinced by Trap and his obvious blindspots, but I'm inclined to take his McCarthy reasoning on face value. At least Clark, Coleman and Wilson are in! Best & Stokes at least show that someone is paying attention to current form.

There's a great chance to make Foley, Clark, Wilson, Gibson and a cople of others mainstays of this team and there are enough freshish faces in the squad to give us the new blood we need, but I fear the teams will be same old, same old again.

[Noelys Guitar]

I'm surprised McCarthy has not been picked as he is sure to feature for Wigan in the thier next few games. It will be interesting to see who actually starts against Wales. If Clark, Foley(midfield. Wolves have badly missed him last two games) and Coleman don't start then I will be really ****ed off. The away performance against a really poor Slovakia side means we have to start improving rapidly to even get a second place in this group. That means new blood. I would only guarantee four players their places at this stage. Dunne, O'Shea, Doyle and Duff.

[SwanVsDalton]

Team I'd have out:

Given

Foley Dunne O'Shea Clark

Coleman Gibson Wilson Hunt

Long Doyle

With Coleman and Hunt marauding, I'd stick with Gibson and Wilson to sit and tick it over. Fahey, Best and Westwood on at half-time. Stokes/Walters, Treacy, Kelly and McGeady also get some game time. Suspect Robbie will play though and if he does, just a half please.

[Dunners]

McCarthy should be there even if its just to train with the squad and get familiar with the set up / staff and players.
He is by far our best option in Midfield and was until he got injured our only Midfielder not only playing week in week out
but performing and holding his own against established prem players.
Very dissipointed for the lad. I hope Trap has called him personally to explain his exclusion.

Also were is Maguire? he was invited over as a guest to attend the game and now what , nothing.
Can anyone shed any light on his exclusion.
I'm not saying he's world beater or has been pulling up trees lately but we need to look at alternative
options

[seanfhear]

Given
Westwood

O'Shea
Clark
Coleman
Dunne
St Ledger
Foley
Kilbane
S Kelly
O'Dea
McShane

Wilson
Gibson
Whelan
Green
Lawrence
Hunt
McGeady
Treacy
Duff
Fahey

Keane
Walters
Doyle
Long
Keogh
Best
Stokes
Not too many world beaters there but sure we hav'nt got any. Throw in McCarthy and Ward:Dand the average/mean ability of that squad should'nt be that shabby.

[Noelys Guitar]

Team I'd have out:

Given

Foley Dunne O'Shea Clark

Coleman Gibson Wilson Hunt

Long Doyle

With Coleman and Hunt marauding, I'd stick with Gibson and Wilson to sit and tick it over. Fahey, Best and Westwood on at half-time. Stokes/Walters, Treacy, Kelly and McGeady also get some game time. Suspect Robbie will play though and if he does, just a half please.

No Duff who was outstanding for Fulham on Saturday? And Duff is still a better option than McGeady or Hunt.

[backstothewall]

The squad is very big and looks a bit lop sided, what with 2 keepers, 4 Right backs, 0 LB, and 7 strikers. That said, he could have fixed that by dropping 5-6 players, but why have a night of the long knives for a friendly.

I can see the argument for leaving McCarthy behind for this one, and I'm not sure I rate Ward myself. Not sure what Trap should have done differently. There's an argument for O'Halloran, but he's probably better left to concentrate on his club football and getting a score of games for Coventry under his belt.

I'd go with...


Given
Foley O'Shea Dunne Clark
Coleman Whelan Fahey Duff
-------Keane Long----------

Subs: Westwood, St. Ledger, Wilson, Lawrence, Best, Doyle, Walters

[SwanVsDalton]

No Duff who was outstanding for Fulham on Saturday? And Duff is still a better option than McGeady or Hunt.

I agree but it's a friendly - we know what Duff brings to the table, with Hunt back to fitness I'd give him the start. And with Duff actually in the Fulham side, he doesn't need game time.

[mark12345]

Agree a hundred per cent Dunners. McCarthy should have been there for familiarity purposes. The lad has been out of action for a couple of months and could have used an emotional lift by being invited to the squad to train at the very least. So what if Green or Whelan were left out. We know what Whelan can do, and he's regressed since, and we know what Green can't do.

And also what about Maguire? If he's not selecting him then why was he invited over? Confusing. I don't want to bash Trap too much because there are quite a few good strikers in the squad, but Kilbane, Green, McShane and O'Dea all could have been left out while McCarthy and Maguire should have been included.

It's just irritating when you see the same filler players in the squad time and again.

[Sullivinho]

Trap- on TV3 news a few mins ago.

Said McCarthy was left out because he is just back and that he will continue to 'follow' him and he will get his opportunity in the next game - or something to that effect.

Also hinted that Clarke will get the nod at LB!

http://www.tv3.ie/sport.php

Cheers for that.

He namechecks Clark and Coleman and says it will be "a good opportunity" for them. In relation to McCarthy he says "two times we've looked for him" which I presume means he's been called up twice before only to be ruled out for whatever reason. He cautions against introducing too many young players ("three or four") because losses affect world ranking and in that regard, claims to be upset about the Norway loss. Returns to Clark and says he's played well at left back. "We'll decide Kilbane or Clark". Stresses the importance and influence of senior players like Given and Keane in relation to younger players joining the squad.

We might see a couple of changes (Coleman and Clark?) but that's about it.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Didn't McCarthy p*ss off Trap by pulling out of some earlier squad and now getting the Reid/Ireland treatment??

And Ward should be given a go at L/B. in these Mickey Mouse games, whilst sadly don't think Green is up to international football, except v. the minnows. So a standby squad player at best.
If Trap wants to stick with his dour midfield system, may as well play Whelan and Gibson, when available, there for the rest of the campaign. With Andrews and Wilson as the main cover.
Especially as the first 3 names mentioned don't seem to figure in any plans he has.....

[geysir]

What a load of whingeing cráp written here that McCarthy should be called up, probably some of you would be thinking that Bruce asked too much too soon of Meyler.
I don't know about Ward one way or the other. It's the team Trap picks from who he has in the squad, is what matters.
They look an average enough bunch, out of which probably only Clark and Coleman could make a difference to the first team.
The rest of them are not really that much better or worse than the players who get picked.

[rebelmusic]

No way McCarthy should have been called up. He's JUST back from injury and needs some time to get back into the swing of things.

How Paul McShane was called up is a mystery. He's had feck all starts this season and half the time he isn't even making the bench. No need for him at all.

[Noelys Guitar]

I agree but it's a friendly - we know what Duff brings to the table, with Hunt back to fitness I'd give him the start. And with Duff actually in the Fulham side, he doesn't need game time.

Then why play Dunne, O'Shea etc etc.

[Kingdom]

I would play this team:

---------------------Westwood------------------

Foley ---------O'Shea -------- Dunne (c)--------Clark

-----------------------Wilson-------------------

Coleman --------------Fahey ------------McGeady

-----------------Long -------- Doyle-------------

Sub: Given, St Ledger, S Kelly, Gibson, Whelan, Treacy, Keane, Best, Stokes

To me that's an exciting team and rewards those who deserve it, and punishes those who deserve it.

[Noelys Guitar]

What a load of whingeing cráp written here that McCarthy should be called up, probably some of you would be thinking that Bruce asked too much too soon of Meyler.
I don't know about Ward one way or the other. It's the team Trap picks from who he has in the squad, is what matters.
They look an average enough bunch, out of which probably only Clark and Coleman could make a difference to the first team.
The rest of them are not really that much better or worse than the players who get picked.

Then why pick O'Shea who has also just come back from injury?

[Noelys Guitar]

My Team would be Westwood
O'Shea Dunne St ledger Clark
Coleman Foley Wilson Duff
Long Doyle

[SwanVsDalton]

Then why play Dunne, O'Shea etc etc.

We have more options on the wing/up front than at CB and they deserve game time. If the team features Foley and Clark, as mine does, there's two almost totally new faces that'll need some experience to help bed in. We need to look at as many attacking options as possible while maintaining a good blend of experience and new faces IMO.

Dunne and O'Shea help bring new defenders through, but playing Duff for this friendly doesn't really do anything for us except prevent Hunt/Fahey/McGeady/Treacy from gaining more experience.

[Colbert Report]

Foley is not getting anywhere near the first team.

[paul_oshea]

I'm less and less convinced by Trap and his obvious blindspots, but I'm inclined to take his McCarthy reasoning on face value. At least Clark, Coleman and Wilson are in! Best & Stokes at least show that someone is paying attention to current form.

There's a great chance to make Foley, Clark, Wilson, Gibson and a cople of others mainstays of this team and there are enough freshish faces in the squad to give us the new blood we need, but I fear the teams will be same old, same old again.

How can you say that stutts, when he has clearly shown double standards, by including reid and whelan who were injured in the past?

Its somewhat disappointing(again) about mccarthy, i mentioned before about familiarity in the way trap wants people to operate and learn, hence he has these development sessions at the end of the season to ingrain his ideas and style in players. Most people laughed at my suggestion, yet people are saying the exact same now. this was the real ample time to include him and "learn" him. People will say traps method is he only includes those he trusts and have adapted to his style for the "betterment" of the team and he wont pick them for the important games if they haven't been involved before. He picked 29 players, having mccarthy over learning like 10 other of these who probably wont feature, and for those who lack game time, as he does, the training would have helped him. This gives people excuses to back trap and say all hail, when he doesn't include players in the important games. We will not see mccarthy in the home game against macedonia. Whats even more worrying is he thinks we are fine with the solutions for midfield we already have "but we will continue to follow him". Now if anybody cant read between the lines what "follow" him means, ill give a hint, his lack of selection has little to do with being injured.

Its interesting to see the slow but gradual changing of mindsets on the forum though.

[paul_oshea]

The other thing that has ticked me off is the bit about "we see him as this and that", to me speaks somewhat of arrogance and an inability to see that other esteemed colleagues haven't as good a judgement as he does. Lets take the coleman thing, 3 goals in his last 5 games and 1 assist i think. Our best right winger at the moment yet he doesn't get picked for that position. You pick your in form players regardless of their position if thats where they are excelling. Now the other way of looking at this is some sort of contentment, Trap is happy with what we have, so lets not change things, even if changing it for something better is an option. Trap could also play the balance game, we need to breed and develop more options for the overall balance of the team. Which in fairness to him he has done in the past. Yet this contradicts his idea of picking the players who are playing week in week out. There are so many contradictions in his selections that its hard to pinpoint what his thought process is. But there is no excuse for not picking your best form players, in their best positions. And their best positions can only be those that they are currently playing in.

[Stuttgart88]

I would play this team:

---------------------Westwood------------------

Foley ---------O'Shea -------- Dunne (c)--------Clark

-----------------------Wilson-------------------

Coleman --------------Fahey ------------McGeady

-----------------Long -------- Doyle-------------

Sub: Given, St Ledger, S Kelly, Gibson, Whelan, Treacy, Keane, Best, Stokes

To me that's an exciting team and rewards those who deserve it, and punishes those who deserve it.Interesting XI alright and I'd be happy to see it. Duff is in my first XI any day, but he's never fit when it counts so it makes sense to play friendlies without him. I think I'm one of the few here who actually believes in Gibson, but Fahey did very well in Slovakia and deserves the recognition. I'd have Hunt on the bench.

[tetsujin1979]

But there is no excuse for not picking your best form players, in their best positions. And their best positions can only be those that they are currently playing in.Kevin Foley has played as a right winger, and sometimes as central midfielder, in recent weeks. Would you play him there?

[shakermaker1982]

Spot on Paul. Coleman is our best right winger at this moment in time and should be played there next month. His comments yesterday suggest to me that Coleman will be on the bench because we couldn't risk him at RB because of Bale. O'Shea will be at RB and Lawrence in front of him. Lawrence is a decent player and has done well for us but he is s l o w and we need to look at other options when the opportunity arises. We don't have any proper pace in the current starting 11 (unless Long starts) and Coleman would give us another outlet to counter quickly if needed.

Just look at our so called Trap best 11. It worries me greatly....

Given - unused sub at City
O'Shea - back from injury but Rafael is now number 1 RB at United
Kilbane - Plays in League 1 as a midfielder
Dunne - finally finding some form after a horrific start to season
St Ledger - so so
Duff - starting to play well again thank God
McGeady - mid season break
Whelan - Sub for Stoke
Green - dropped for Forest game
Keane - Sub for Spurs
Doyle - struggling for goals

Coleman and Long are absolutely buzzing right now. Both should be starting IMO.

[Stuttgart88]

How can you say that stutts, when he has clearly shown double standards, by including reid and whelan who were injured in the past?Just simply because he's been out for so long and is only just back. It'd p1ss off his club and the player no end if he got injured, even in training - which has happened a few of our players on Irish duty.

If Trap is indeed so stubborn that he's ignoring McCarthy, our best midfield prospect since Keane, because of what happened 9 months ago, then he can go fcuk himself. But, as I say, I'm inclined to accept it on face value. Didn't Wilson pull out of a squad too on flimsy grounds? He's in.

[shakermaker1982]

Kevin Foley has played as a right winger, and sometimes as central midfielder, in recent weeks. Would you play him there?

Coleman has played right wing week in week out since end of September. That's a little bit different to a player (Foley) having to fill in for his team because of injuries/suspensions.

[Noelys Guitar]

If he continues to start Green, Kilbane and to a lesser extent Whelan then the crowd are going to turn on him. The tactics Trap employed in the away game to Slovakia showed he is not thinking on his feet. Instead he has a "game Plan" which he refuses to change no matter how poor the opposition are. Foley has been the the best Irish central midfielder in the Premiership in the last two months bar none. He was excellent away to Liverpool and in the Wolves home game against Chelsea. And yet he is unlikely to even get a run out. This is a bigger worry than McCarthy not getting picked.

[paul_oshea]

Kevin Foley has played as a right winger, and sometimes as central midfielder, in recent weeks. Would you play him there?

you took that out of context. Best player in that position

[paul_oshea]

Just simply because he's been out for so long and is only just back. It'd p1ss off his club and the player no end if he got injured, even in training - which has happened a few of our players on Irish duty.

If Trap is indeed so stubborn that he's ignoring McCarthy, our best midfield prospect since Keane, because of what happened 9 months ago, then he can go fcuk himself. But, as I say, I'm inclined to accept it on face value. Didn't Wilson pull out of a squad too on flimsy grounds? He's in.


I wouldn't necessarily say its definitely one thing stutts. I think he also sees him as a player that doesn't suit his adaptation of how this team plays.

[paul_oshea]

We don't have any proper pace in the current starting 11 (unless Long starts) and Coleman would give us another outlet to counter quickly if needed.


Thats another interesting point I didnt mention. Trap always likes the italian style of defend defend, and counter quickly, hence why he uses mcgeady and he has said the same in the past. Coleman is ideal for this. Mcgeady isn't even technically a defender, coleman is, surely that in itself would completely fit in with this scenario. Again another complete contradictory example. Im really begining to wonder about the whole thing. At least he is consistent with his bizzare, random contradictory remarks and assessments.

[paul_oshea]

Just simply because he's been out for so long and is only just back. It'd p1ss off his club and the player no end if he got injured, even in training - which has happened a few of our players on Irish duty.

If Trap is indeed so stubborn that he's ignoring McCarthy, our best midfield prospect since Keane, because of what happened 9 months ago, then he can go fcuk himself. But, as I say, I'm inclined to accept it on face value. Didn't Wilson pull out of a squad too on flimsy grounds? He's in.

But he did it with reid in the past. Andrews in the past. Oshea this time(who might not even get to play this week with rafal back from suspension and therefore technically wont be as fresh or fit as mccarthy if he plays from now).

[paul_oshea]

If he continues to start Green, Kilbane and to a lesser extent Whelan then the crowd are going to turn on him. The tactics Trap employed in the away game to Slovakia showed he is not thinking on his feet. Instead he has a "game Plan" which he refuses to change no matter how poor the opposition are. Foley has been the the best Irish central midfielder in the Premiership in the last two months bar none. He was excellent away to Liverpool and in the Wolves home game against Chelsea. And yet he is unlikely to even get a run out. This is a bigger worry than McCarthy not getting picked.


Its not really because mccarthy, coleman and foley cases come under the same assessment.

Can someone merge my posts? Sorry i reply on android and its a balls...

[EalingGreen]

Spot on Paul. Coleman is our best right winger at this moment in time and should be played there next month. His comments yesterday suggest to me that Coleman will be on the bench because we couldn't risk him at RB because of Bale.If Trap is going to select/not select Coleman on the basis of the threat from Bale, then Trap clearly hasn't done his homework.

Bale injured his back in the first half away to Everton on Jan.5th, struggling on until 58th minute, when he had to go off. He wasn't even on the bench for Spurs next game (FA Cup v Charlton), since Harry was "nursing him" for the following game (EPL home v Man U, 16th). Although Bale played the 90, he clearly looked v. subdued during the game. Then away to Newcastle (EPL on Sat.22nd), he pulled up in obvious pain after 5 minutes, going off in the 11th. After the game, Harry admitted they were worried that his injury may be more serious than first thought. However, it is notable that he started v Newcastle at LB (Assou-Ekotto injured), with new signing Pienaar in Left Midfield.

Between now and the ROI/Wales game, Spurs are away to Fulham (FAC), and away to Blackburn & home to Bolton (EPL). I severely doubt Bale will play against Fulham; indeed he may not feature too much in the others, if both Pienaar and A-E are available..

Worse, immed. after the ROI game on 8th, Spurs have four savage games in 14 days: Sunderland (A), AC Milan (A), Blackpool (A) and the Arse (H). I've no doubt Harry will do everything he can to have Bale fit for those games. Therefore I would be astonished if Bale travelled to Dublin. I would be even more surprised if Trap was unaware of all this - OK, he may not be a Spurs fan like me, but considering how much he's being paid, he can surely afford to have the English papers delivered...

P.S. As for Coleman, I was at the Everton/Spurs game, where he was truly excellent. Fair enough, a youngster like him must be unlikely to carry his current form right the way through a whole season until the Euro Qualifier game in June, so he might not be a real option by then. But he's absolutely flying at the moment, so what harm can there be in picking him to start against Wales, whether FB or MF, with Macedonia in mind?

Even to bring him on from the bench would be a bizarre waste (imo).

[shakermaker1982]

EG - Harry hasn't really looked after Bale this season and has ran him into the ground. I'm not surprised Bale is starting to fall apart. However if Bale does make a full recovery then you'd hope Bale would turn up for Gary Speed's first squad. Harry might do a Fergie and say Bale has picked up another knock of course just before the players depart for duty but you'd think that if Bale is fit he'd want to meet up with his new manager? I'd like to see him play of course, it would be a good test for our right hand side to see how they would cope.

Re Coleman I agree with you 100%. Coleman would be a breath of fresh air to a team which is running out of ideas and has regressed since the France game. However I fear our manager has other ideas....

[paul_oshea]

Re Coleman I agree with you 100%. Coleman would be a breath of fresh air to a team which is running out of ideas and has regressed since the France game. However I fear our manager has other ideas....

Or, has no other ideas.....

[SwanVsDalton]

How can you say that stutts, when he has clearly shown double standards, by including reid and whelan who were injured in the past?

I take your point but I don't think you can compare selections from the start of his tenure to now. Trap came in, clearly had little clue about players, picked some and stuck with them, regardless of injuries. Now he knows the players better and has many more options - even if McCarthy's better than nearly all of them.

As Geysir pointed out, McCarthy's just back from injury and I'd rather wrap him in cotton wool (and avoid a Meyler scenario) with the proviso he'll be picked next time, if fit. So, as with Stutts, I'm taking Trap at face value. If he doesn't get picked when 100% fit, then different story.

As for the Coleman thing, didn't Trap say he saw him primarily as a right back about four/five months ago? Is there any indication he might have changed his mind since? Will be interesting to see, but I just want him to start.

[EalingGreen]

EG - Harry hasn't really looked after Bale this season and has ran him into the ground. I'm not surprised Bale is starting to fall apart.Rather harsh on Harry, on three counts.

First, it is Harry who has turned Bale from a "promising young Full Back" as recently as 18 months ago, to a top quality Left Midfielder today.
Second, if you were in Harry's position i.e. "must-win" games following thick-and-fast since August, would you have the balls to leave him out? Anyhow, from what I've seen, Bale's current injury only occurred at the beginning of this month - he was full of running before then.
Third, having bought Pienaar as soon as he could in the window, Harry will be able to rest Bale.


However if Bale does make a full recovery...Possible, I suppose, though 17 days is not a lot of time, even for a minor injury. Anyhow, whether genuinely injured or merely suffering from "Fergusonitis", I would lay good odds on Bale not being in Dublin.


you'd hope Bale would turn up for Gary Speed's first squad... ...you'd think that if Bale is fit he'd want to meet up with his new manager?By the way Bale was talking recently about "Team GB" being his best chance of playing in a major international tournament etc, it's clear he is no misty-eyed dreamer. Which is not to say that he doesn't care about playing for Wales etc, but eg Giggs was patriotic enough and how many friendlies did he ever play for Wales, once established in the team? Three? Four?
As for Bale impressing his new manager etc, what is Speed going to do if Bale pulls out of the ROI game in unlikely circumstances? Never pick him again? Hardly...


Re Coleman I agree with you 100%. Coleman would be a breath of fresh air to a team which is running out of ideas and has regressed since the France game. However I fear our manager has other ideas....I could well be wrong, but I think Coleman (and other youngsters like McCarthy?) are unlucky "victims" of Trap's overall strategy for the team, on two counts.

First, it must be fairly obvious to Trap that the basic quality of the players at his disposal is inferior to what he's normally used to in Italy etc. Moreover, he hasn't got the time to work with them in training to make them better players, as he would with a club.

Second, there is a decent chance that he won't still be in charge after 2012, whether voluntarily or otherwise. Therefore he's not going to waste time developing youngsters like Coleman, for the sake of his own successor.

Consequently, he may be hoping that he can compensate for his core players' basic deficiencies by consistently sticking to the same, familiar selection/formation/tactics etc which have always served him well in the past.

Of course, one manager's "consistency" is another's "rigidity"....

[punkrocket]

Apologies if mentioned before but does anyone know if there are to be any tickets at the ground for the upcoming Scotland game or is it ticketmaster only?