Celtic Cup thread

[Gather round]

You trivialise my point. I am talking about so called supporters who send bullets through the post to players because of their beliefs and look upon people of different backgrounds as some sort of inferior species

That was hardly obvious from your (pretty trivial) reply, was it? I read your post as a gentle wind-up and responded in kind. You've continued to avoid the point, anyway. If you're going to ignore a friendly game with NI because a couple of morons threaten violence and most of our fans see the RoI as the biggest rival, what would you do if it was a qualifier? Not enjoy even if you won? Suggest to FAI that they withdraw from the tournament?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Thats my point. YOu have sympathy for managers who complain about their players playing too much football, even though they make them play even more pointless games...
Except I never said that. Lazy assumption there.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Whatever floats your boat, although every exotic fixture away from home against better opposition obviously means that your opponent is playing a less exotic (or 'pointless', as you'd presumably call it) fixture at home. In practice almost everyone will play a mixture of home and away games against lesser and greater rivals.
The main source of too much football is domestic, not international.
Hmm, sweet or savoury, you decide?

There's too much football at all levels including club games and international.


If you're going to ignore a friendly game with NI because a couple of morons threaten violence and most of our fans see the RoI as the biggest rival, what would you do if it was a qualifier? Not enjoy even if you won? Suggest to FAI that they withdraw from the tournament?
Except you're exaggerating our relative importance. The North are only 'bothered' about us, as they seem to think it's of some kind of distorted "political" importance to beat us. Kinda of ironic.

If I was them I'd be more bothered about Scotland and Ingerland. Our 'biggest' rival would certainly be the latter.
And up until around 10 years ago, the North were more animated about them than us on the basis of the fans I encountered.

[pineapple stu]

Except I never said that. Lazy assumption there.

You clearly did.

[Not Brazil]

If I was them I'd be more bothered about Scotland and Ingerland. Our 'biggest' rival would certainly be the latter.


I doubt you'll find many Ingerlund fans who would consider the Republic Of Ireland a "big rival".

[ArdeeBhoy]

You clearly did.

If you say so. Think I know what I said. Even it wasn't phrased over-eloquently.
;)

And NB, Was talking about Ireland fans.

[pineapple stu]

Maybe what you said wasn't what you meant, but it was what you said.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Like I say, if you say so.

[The Fly]

This thread is rapidly going downhill.

[Dodge]

Except I never said that. Lazy assumption there.
So you didn't say this?


starting to have sympathy with club managers who say international friendlies should be eventually abolished.
:rolleyes:
My own fault for trying to reason with you

[ifk101]

nUTXb-ga1fo

[EalingGreen]

Perhaps.

Or perhaps it will be more along the lines of....."Its our birthday, Its our party, we are hosting that party and you can all either come and enjoy the bit of jelly and ice cream you are given or feck off and we wont have a party at all - I couldnt care less either way" (I/Our being the FA for the avoidance of doubt).My guess is that the rationale behind England's participation in this proposed tournament is as follows.

1. They wouldn't normally be interested at all, since they have a huge debt to pay off (Wembley etc) and they think they can make more money from home friendlies against "foreign" opposition than they can against the other Home nations (esp as they have to play half such games in Belfast/Cardiff/Glasgow).
2. However, they have screwed up* their previous (long-time) sponsorship with Nationwide and have had to cast around to find a replacement - in this case, Vauxhall.
3. Vauxhall realise they have a strong hand to play, so one of their "demands" is a revival of the British Championship, since they are also now sponsoring the other 3 Associations.
4. Therefore if England are forced to participate, they are likely digging in their heels over it being a one-off, whilst using the fact of their 150th Anniversary on 2013 as their pretext.

This is also why I suspect that ROI will not be invited to participate, despite the FAI's desperatio... er, eagerness, since a fifth team would only clog up the fixture calendar even more, including depriving England of one more free date for a friendly against Spain or Germany or whoever.


* - When the contract with Nationwide was up for renewal in early 2010, the FA demanded an increase in the rate - apparently in anticipation that the sponsorship rights would be more valuable/sought after following England's triumphant participation in the World Cup Finals! Vauxhall must have been p1ssing themselves over that one, whilst whoever is in charge of Sponsorship at Nationwide must be heartily relieved!

[EalingGreen]

I forget the reasons for the FA declining to be part of the 'Celtic Cup' (or whatever the original idea name was). I think its discussed earlier in the thread, wasn't it something to do with more glamourous/lucrative friendlies already being lined up?Correct. Remember, it is not just the gate money which must be considered (and I would guess that eg England's next home friendly vs Ghana will attract as big a crowd as NI or Wales would). You also need to factor in the TV rights, which reside with the team hosting such a game. NI only have a population of 1.8m, Wales 3m(?) and even Scotland only 5m. Worse still, subscribers in those countries already get such games "thrown in" free by SKY or BBC!
Compare that with a game against Turkey, which has a football-mad population of 70million-odd.


I think a tournament held at Wembley with England in it, would be a money spinner. The Aviva hosted one will just be a pain in the hole for all concerned, attendances will be poor and it will probably be deemed not to have been worth the effort - certainly from a commercial aspect, probably equally so from a footballing one.Do not assume that any such tournament will be hosted by england at Wembley, since it almost certainly won't. At best, they will host it so that their three games vs Scot/Wales/NI will be at Wembley (plus ROI if participating), with the games between the other three (four) farmed out to smaller grounds in London/the regions.
Remember, broadcasters will not want to televise 5,000 fans at Wembley for NI v Wales, when it would look rather better eg at Loftus Road etc.
Also, the FA has difficulty enough with the local Brent residents as it is, who complain bitterly about the ever-increasing number of matches at Wembley disrupting their lives etc.

Further, I am sure Vauxhall will want to see the tournament spead out amongst the four home Nations, so that they can reap the benefit of publicity etc right across the UK, whilst inviting their regional Dealers/Suppliers/Employees etc to their local venue.

[EalingGreen]

If NI win it will be seen by many as some sort of political victory rather than a sporting victory.Although I won't be attending myself, I want NI to win because we have a victorious run to maintain against you lot.

OK, it's only a one match run, but it's important nonetheless...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqcqcWmjdcY

[EalingGreen]

nUTXb-ga1foI might have known.

For whenever I see one of your posts, I invariably think "Petty"...:p

[ifk101]

What eagerness the FAI have for the proposed tournament in 2013 is not for the tournament per se, but for the prospect of playing England. As your youtube video shows, matches against NI wouldn't attract the crowds. And everybody knows that the FAI needs to fill the stadium.

[EalingGreen]

What eagerness the FAI have for the proposed tournament in 2013 is not for the tournament per se, but for the prospect of playing England. As your youtube video shows, matches against NI wouldn't attract the crowds. And everybody knows that the FAI needs to fill the stadium.Of course the England game would be the "Big One" for the FAI.

But if games against NI (and Scotland/Wales) would be so unattractive or financially unrewarding for the FAI in 2013, then why are they hosting games against those self-same opponents in 2011? http://www.radiosatan666.com/emoticons/doh1.gif

[The Fly]

I might have known.

For whenever I see one of your posts, I invariably think "Petty"...:p

I think longer posts are more your thing.

[ifk101]

Of course the England game would be the "Big One" for the FAI.

But if games against NI (and Scotland/Wales) awould be so unattractive or financially unrewarding for the FAI in 2013, then why are they hosting games against those self-same opponents in 2011? http://ourweecountry.iphost.com/public/style_emoticons/default/doh.gif

Because they are hosting the games.

[EalingGreen]

Because they are hosting the games.You are assuming that England will be hosting all the games in such a tournament, which I think presumptious (see my post #163).

For even if they are the "major player" of the four/five participants, any such tournament is NOT solely within the gift of the FA to determine - if nothing else, Vauxhall and the TV companies will have a huge say in the matter, since their funding will be at least as important a factor as gate receipts in determining the final, overall revenue.

In which case I strongly suspect that they and the other Associations will be lobbying hard for a tournament of two homes and two aways for each of the five participants (equivalent to the old British Championship of four teams).

[ifk101]

You are assuming that England will be hosting all the games in such a tournament, which I think presumptious (see my post #163).

No, I was referring to the forthcoming games in 2011. If the FAI were to be involved in the tournament in 2013, I'm sure they'd be pushing hard for the fixture against England to be played in Dublin.

[The Fly]

If the FAI were to be involved in the tournament in 2013, I'm sure they'd be pushing hard for the fixture against England to be played in Dublin.

English national team fixtures created in order to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the FA, are hardly going to be played outside of England, let alone Wembley.

[ifk101]

English national team fixtures created in order to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the FA, are hardly going to be played outside of England, let alone Wembley.

That wouldn't necessarily be the case if the tournament is viewed as a revival of a former tournament's format with the addition of a special guest team.

[The Fly]

Hmmm.......perhaps.

Though, given its status as a one-off event, I just can't see any other eventuality. But hey, you never know!

[EalingGreen]

English national team fixtures created in order to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the FA, are hardly going to be played outside of England, let alone Wembley.Except that these games are NOT being "created in order to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the FA".

They have been suggested by Vauxhall, with the support of the other three Associations they sponsor, since it fits neatly with their UK-wide marketing strategy. I personally have no doubt that in normal circumstances, England would not be interested in such a tournament, however they cannot afford (literally!) to alienate their generous new sponsor.

Therefore I suspect the FA might be persuaded to go along with it, so long as it doesn't commit them permanently. And they can "justify" their participation by calling it part of their 150th etc, safe in the knowledge that they won't be expected to have to repeat it for their 152nd, 154th, 156th etc.

Beyond that, there is doubtless a great degree of "horse-trading" going on between the FA on the one hand, and Vauxhall (plus the 3 other FA's) on the other. As I see it, England may hold out to be the sole hosts, should they calculate that that would prove most lucrative for them.

However, it may prove more lucrative to stage the tournament as before i.e. home games shared out between the four. In which case, you can bet your bottom dollar that Scotland will play England at Wembley, and possibly also NI, but less likely Wales (Eng and Wales are currently in the same Euro qualifiers group, and the 73k Millennium, or even the 30k Cardiff City Stadium, would be more suitable than the 90k Wembley for that.).

[EalingGreen]

That wouldn't necessarily be the case if the tournament is viewed as a revival of a former tournament's format with the addition of a special guest team.How can it be a revival of the British Championship if it contains a non-British team?

More so if it is hosted by one of the five Associations, in a clear departure from previous practice?

My guess is that if it is just a straight (one-off) revival, it will called something like the "Vauxhall British Championship", with England giving it some extra "150th. razamatazz" for the sake of appearances. (For example, they could kick-off the tournament by playing Scotland at home, in a recreation of the first ever international football game).

Besides, a revived BC need not preclude them also staging additional events to celebrate their Anniversary, such as an England vs the Rest of the World game, or a 1 week mini-tournament eg against the last 3 World Champions, as a warm up to Brazil 2014 etc.

As for devising a new event to include ROI, does anyone know exactly from where this suggestion has come? Although neither the FA nor Vauxhall has formally dismissed it, neither do I believe that either of them has proposed inviting the FAI.

Is it not just a case of Delaney trying to wangle an invite to the party for the FAI, both to generate desperately needed revenue, as well as reminding everyone that a Carling Nations Cup in 2015 would be a good idea, too?

After all, when England cancelled this year's trip to Thailand in a post-World Cup bidding fit of pique, Delaney was quick enough to start spinning a replacement game against Team 33 in Dublin etc. Is that proposal still open, or has it been put to sleep?

[The Fly]

As for devising a new event to include ROI, does anyone know exactly from where this suggestion has come? Although neither the FA nor Vauxhall has formally dismissed it, neither do I believe that either of them has proposed inviting the FAI.


http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2011/0111/republic.html

Republic invite to expanded 'home nations'
Tuesday, 11 January 2011 14:46



The English FA has invited the Republic of Ireland to participate in a new look competition which would also include Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.England who originally turned down an invitation to participate in the Carling Nations Cup, are believed to be enthusiastic now about organising the five-team event which may begin in 2013.

The format has yet to be agreed, with a decision still to be made over the duration of tournament and whether or not the event will be staged at one venue.


The Carling Nations Cup involving the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland & Wales kicks-off next month at the Aviva Stadium, with the concluding matches to be played at the same venue at the end of May.

[TrapAPony]

As for devising a new event to include ROI, does anyone know exactly from where this suggestion has come? Although neither the FA nor Vauxhall has formally dismissed it, neither do I believe that either of them has proposed inviting the FAI.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/fa-home-nations-and-ireland-matches-would-be-2013-one-off-488898.html

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ireland-invited-to-play-part-in-expanded-home-nations-2491018.html

[EalingGreen]

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/fa-home-nations-and-ireland-matches-would-be-2013-one-off-488898.html

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ireland-invited-to-play-part-in-expanded-home-nations-2491018.htmlThanks for those.

Re that first link, I suspect that Alex Horne may be "flying a kite" at this stage, since the FA is in such disarray at the moment, it can be in no position to make firm plans for two months ahead, never mind two years.

As for the second link, it declares:
"Moves to set up the tournament are being driven by the English FA, who are keen to revive it as an extra carrot to convince Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to join them in forming a Great Britain team for the 2012 London Olympics."
Everything I've read on this side of the water indicates that this "Home Nations" tournament is actually being (ahem) driven by Vauxhall, not the FA.

If that is so, it is entirely predictable that the FA will try to use their participation/non-participation to give them leverage over other matters, such as the other three Home Associations' participation in "Team GB" (Olympics).

Yet they've already been rebuffed over this twice this week. The first was when they revealed that an Englishman (Stuart Pearce) will be manager of the team, when it is well known that they had wanted a Scot (Sir Alex Ferguson) for the job: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1346239/Stuart-Pearce-primed-Team-GB-Olympic-football-team-job-2012-CHARLES-SALE.html.
And second, the FAW have told Gareth Bale that he will not be permitted to play in the Olympics: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/league_of_wales/9359652.stm

I suspect that this story has a lot more to run over the next few months.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Eng. v.Scotland for traditional reasons or against an AI team for novelty ones would be the only fixtures of interest in any 2013 tournament.

Despite the hand-wringers on here, maybe The FAI/IFA , (Not the fans. Well, one ;) set would get upset.) would consider playing the Ingles in a one-off fixture ??
As in it would sell out Wembley and should be worth c.£1 million to each of the, er, Irish associations.

And it would be a far more attractive proposition to play a combined side than two separate mediocre games.
Similarly, with a rest of British XI (as in the other 3 'home' associations), well, Gareth Bale* & 10 donkeys??

Talking of which, Bale* 'wants' to play for a GB Olympic team and a Mr.C.Brunt suggested interest also, when mentioned to him over the festive period.

[gastric]

Just out of bed here in Oz and the debate continues. In relation to comments made by NB and GA about my lack of interest in who wins this game, let's get to the heart of it.
Too many NI supporters use soccer as a political vehicle. It's not about sport for them. This is why so many follow Rangers and why the IFA display such a myopic attitude. The CAS case was an attempt to appease such supporters and to answer one point made by Gather Around, if Irish supporters sent bullets to their own team or looked upon winning such a game in political terms or engaged in violence I would abhor their conduct too.
NI soccer is too seeped in Protestant political tradition and hatred of others for me to see this game as nothing more than a return to the tragedy of the past, and holds less interest to me than our last friendly against Norway which as you know we lost!

[shakermaker1982]

I really wish the Celtic Cup followed the format of the old British home championship so that each country plays home and away instead of playing every game at the Aviva. I'd be surprised if the Vauxhall tournament has every game at Wembley.

I'm not sure what to make of the Celtic Cup. I'm looking forward to the Northern Ireland game because that will have a bit of bite to it but I remember Wales at Croke Park. Wales brought about 6 fans (it was a competitive international) and it was a proper snooze fest.

I'd have preferred if we had to travel to Cardiff, Glasgow or Belfast for at least one of the games so if the game is below par then you've always got new bars to drink in!

[ArdeeBhoy]

SM's last paragraph is spot on! And good stuff by our Melbourne correspondent;they won't like that mind!

To be fair, the Welsh brought a lot (without filling The Hill) to the Qualifier, in it, was the Euros? It seems so long ago....

[Charlie Darwin]

As a traditionalist, I would prefer to see the former; also because it would have the side-effect of excluding the (cash-strapped) FAI from participating in a potentially lucrative money-spinner.
You mischievous rascal!

I suspect the FA would be particularly interested in getting the FAI involved because we're the only country (and Scotland when they feel like it) that could be relied upon to fill Wembley for an international.

[Gather round]

As in it would sell out Wembley and should be worth c.£1 million to each of the, er, Irish associations

As you're so keen on novelty, why not concentrate on qulifying for a few more tournaments? That way, you'd get to see lots of new places/ teams etc. in Ukraine, Brazil and the up-country Urals. Failing that, just merge with England and stop posting nonsense.


Bale* 'wants' to play for a GB Olympic team and a Mr.C.Brunt suggested interest also, when mentioned to him

Told you personally, did they? The GB team ain't happening, get over it.


Too many NI supporters use soccer as a political vehicle. It's not about sport for them

Rest assured, it is. There's little political clout in supporting a mediocre football team.

As for the player eligibility row, you're right that it reflects badly on the IFA and many fans. It's a bit of a leap from that to dismising the entire support: football administrators often act foolishly. Remember the team 33 row barely a year ago?


This is why so many follow Rangers

Many do for broadly the same reasons that fans all over Ireland support Celtic (ie they're successful, nearby and historically linked). See also Manchester United and Liverpool.


to answer one point made by Gather Around, if Irish supporters sent bullets to their own team or engaged in violence I would abhor their conduct too

I should hope so too. BTW, you're continuing to avoid my other point, which I'll repeat: if you're uninterested in a friendly against NI because many of our fans are so violent/ obsessed by party politics, would you be equally bored were it a qualifier? To the extent that you'd suggest to the FAI they didn't even play the game? If so, fair enough, at least it's consistent eccentricity. If not, you're a hypocrite: the Republic of Ireland and its fans are just as likely to use nationalistic wab-waving to drum up interest in a crucial game against local rivals. That's why so many of them are fascinated by a return match with England (hopefully lasting 90 minutes next time), and incidentally why England playing a competitive game against almost any third country will get a big audience on RTE.


NI soccer is too seeped in Protestant political tradition and hatred of others

Ill-informed nonsense. The last manager and assistant manager, and about half the current squad are Roman Catholics. Any of whom are welcomed to play or support the game. Unless of course you simply equate there being an NI team with the hatred and chip-on-shoulder. In which case, I suggest you head into town next time the Poms arrive to thrash Australia ;)

Anyway, sweet dreams. All bound for Mornington, many miles away.


I'd have preferred if we had to travel to Cardiff, Glasgow or Belfast for at least one of the games so if the game is below par then you've always got new bars to drink in!

Agreed. But, as Ray Kennedy would say, we are where we are...


=Charlie Darwin]we're the only country (and Scotland when they feel like it) that could be relied upon to fill Wembley for an international

Remember these are friendlies, effectively. Maybe none of the games would sell out. Against that, when Wales and NI played England in Wc 2006 qualifying, we both sold out Old Trafford. A couple of years earlier, your boys couldn't half-fill Charlton Athletic against Nigeria and Jamaica.

[gastric]

you're continuing to avoid my other point, which I'll repeat: if you're uninterested in a friendly against NI because many of our fans are so violent/ obsessed by party politics, would you be equally bored were it a qualifier?

Gather Around, the answer is yes!

Secondly, I will grant that there has been progress in regards to the supporters' treatment of Catholics, but all that has happened is that they have moved from the Stone Age to the Iron Age. I will repeat again many of the NI supporters and the IFA continue to display a historic attitude to the South and all that goes with it that is antiquated and insular.

In regards to your comments about Catholics supporting Celtic, the history of Protestant vs. Catholic crap is one I am over too. I have interest in the Irish lads who play at Celtic just as I have interest in following the progress of Alan Smith from Dublin who is with Rangers. Hopefully you are now getting my point, when all the bulls##t that involves sectarianism and other political crap is removed from what essentially sport should be about - passion, camardarie, fair play and enjoyment, then I will happily watch a game involving NI.

[Gather round]

but all that has happened is that they have moved from the Stone Age to the Iron Age

What are you Aussie Boy, 12? Your own attitudes don't seem to have progressed much since the primordial soup.


I will repeat again many of the NI supporters and the IFA continue to display a historic attitude to the South and all that goes with it that is antiquated and insular

The IFA says it is committed to a good working relationship with the FAI; evidence being both taking part in this cup. All that the fans' "historic [and] antiquated" attitude means is that we've seen you as a rival for a long time. See also both of us vis a vis England, Germany with Netherlands etc. etc. The insular reference is nonsense- both NI and RoI have been entering the World Cup and Euros with up to 200 other teams, for decades.


In regards to your comments about Catholics supporting Celtic, the history of Protestant vs. Catholic crap is one I am over too. I have interest in the Irish lads who play at Celtic just as I have interest in following the progress of Alan Smith from Dublin who is with Rangers

You don't seem to have understood my point (simply that some Irish people support Rangers for much the same reasons others support Celtic, or ManU or Liverpool). Not primarily because they hate Catholics/ Protestants/ people from elsewhere in Lancashire.


Hopefully you are now getting my point, when all the bulls##t that involves sectarianism and other political crap is removed from what essentially sport should be about - passion, camardarie, fair play and enjoyment, then I will happily watch a game involving NI

I got your point immediately. It still doesn't make much sense. "Political crap" (or as I'd prefer, nationalistic rivalry) follows almost inevitably from international sport. If you don't like it, as well as Northern Ireland you should be shunning all games involving the Republic and every other country.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Even the Aussies are more sophisticated than yer average unionist to be fair....S'truth.

The 'rivalry' thing is a joke;it's only since the 'alleged' 'poaching' row, that your lot took even the slightest interest in the main. Prior to '02 it was complete apathy.

And the geographical 'point' seems as misguided as ever.

[ArdeeBhoy]

As you're so keen on novelty, why not concentrate on qulifying for a few more tournaments? That way, you'd get to see lots of new places/ teams etc. in Ukraine, Brazil and the up-country Urals. Failing that, just merge with England and stop posting nonsense.
Not sure that has anything to do with The Eng.FA's 2013 tournament besides repeating your own tired view of the world. If any 'Irish' team merges with the Ingles, it won't be us! ;)
And isn't it 25 years and counting......


The GB team ain't happening, get over it.
You'd better take it up with Messrs. Bale & Brunt next time it's in the media.... It's a one-off', so "get over it", as you might say.


There's little political clout in supporting a mediocre football team.

As for the player eligibility row, you're right that it reflects badly on the IFA and many fans. It's a bit of a leap from that to dismising the entire support: football administrators often act foolishly. Remember the team 33 row barely a year ago?
Especially when anyone suggests a UI team even for a 'one-off' game;nothing 'political' about those objections??
Lol.
As for 'Team 33', that was JD's idea. If FIFA hadn't dealt with the whole thing in such a crass manner, then those extreme suggestions would never have surfaced.
They are the World leaders in Incompetence in football admin.


BTW, you're continuing to avoid my other point, which I'll repeat: if you're uninterested in a friendly against NI because many of our fans are so violent/ obsessed by party politics, would you be equally bored were it a qualifier? To the extent that you'd suggest to the FAI they didn't even play the game? If so, fair enough, at least it's consistent eccentricity. If not, you're a hypocrite: the Republic of Ireland and its fans are just as likely to use nationalistic wab-waving to drum up interest in a crucial game against local rivals.
Don't bother;It's as unclear now as it was then.

Incidentally any 'third party interest' in Ingerland would be down to the profile of the PL & if it was glamour opposition. And suspect 95% of any nominal RTE viewers would want them to lose?? Except RTE don't tend to broadcast their games, unless they play Ireland....


The last manager and assistant manager, and about half the current squad are Roman Catholics. Any of whom are welcomed to play or support the game. Unless of course you simply equate there being an NI team with the hatred and chip-on-shoulder. In which case, I suggest you head into town next time the Poms arrive to thrash Australia

Not for much longer, if people keep being sent dubious packages? Hardly an enticement. Not to mention a certain Swiss edict.
It's not about 'hatred', but expression of identity, which the current official flag & anthem of the North do nothing to appeal to those who see themselves as Irish.

The other analogy as ever, makes no sense.


Remember these are friendlies, effectively. Maybe none of the games would sell out. Against that, when Wales and NI played England in Wc 2006 qualifying, we both sold out Old Trafford. A couple of years earlier, your boys couldn't half-fill Charlton Athletic against Nigeria and Jamaica.

Except the WCQ's were 90% Ingerland fans. And a slight novelty value, albeit v. cannon fodder.
The other was a misguided tournament, the Welsh or North would have brought < 1000 each.
At least Ireland had around 5k fans there! Even including a large fat man with bad dress sense.....

[SolitudeRed]

Just listening to some of the comments on here from the NI fans is confirmation if I needed any that they are not a team which can command my loyalty or support all this hatred of the South is rather depressing! Thats the North for you though I'm sure it works both ways but In general I don't think Republic fans really care that much about the 'IFA team'.

On a side note I wouldn't be opposed to seeing an all Ireland team even if it was just for a friendly like that Shamrock Rovers XI back in the day. There might be more support for it within the North than some NI fans care to acknowledge. It actually reminds me of when NI were on their worst run ever a few years ago and were only getting a few thousand at their games I remember the news were running items on whether it was time to do away with the NI team.

[Dodge]

Who'd have thunk it? Another thread that involved both ROI and NI descends into the usual ********

[Sullivinho]

Who'd have thunk it? Another thread that involved both ROI and NI descends into the usual ********

You have to appreciate the effort and dedication all the same. Those beautifully segmented quotes and point by point rebuttals don't create themselves.

[EalingGreen]

Who'd have thunk it? Another thread that involved both ROI and NI descends into the usual ********Indeed.

Then maybe you can answer a couple of questions for me, Dodge.

In his two contributions to this thread, Gastric has posted the followng:

Post #181: NI fans are not interested in sport and use "soccer" [sic] as a political vehicle. Apparently they send bullets to their own players, look upon winning games solely in political terms and engage in violence. And soccer in NI is seeped in Protestant political tradition and hatred of others.

Post #186: NI fans are violent/obsessed by party politics, not having got beyond the Iron Age (from the Stone Age) in their treatment of Catholics, because their attitudes are historically insular and antiquated.

As someone who seems relatively "neutral" on such issues, do you think that that sort of sweeping and offensive generalisation by Gastric adds anything to the debate? And as a regular, long-time poster etc, how long do you think I'd last on this Board if I were to post something equivalent about ROI fans?

For it seems to me that whilst the great majority of posters on this Board can calmly and constructively debate the various issues between the two teams etc, there is a small band which consistently goes beyond the issues and takes the opportunity to attack the NI fanbase, with all sorts of wild and unsupported allegations.

Then when Gather Round, Not Brazil and myself etc seek to defend ourselves, we then get denigrated equally with the aggressors.

[osarusan]

there is a small band which consistently goes beyond the issues and takes the opportunity to attack the NI fanbase, with all sorts of wild and unsupported allegations.
And you consistently take the bait and engage them in 'debate'.

Why? You surely don't expect to actually change their mind, do you?

All that happens, again and again, is the same arguments, counter-arguments, insults and counter-insults, bulls**t and counter-bulls**t gets trotted out, with nobody ever changing anybody's mind about anything, nor (I'd imagine) having any hope or expectation of doing so.

[Dodge]

Then maybe you can answer a couple of questions for me, Dodge.


I'll answer questions when you stop being a blow hard and realise that beneath your long, long posts you're as petty as some of the thicks that are arguing with you.

Not only are these circular debates extremely boring, they solve nothing. Everyone who posts once on the subject has the exact same position 20 posts later. So maybe, just maybe peoplee could state their position once, and leave it at that.

And then we can have a discussion on the merits of Scotland v NI in Dublin, of a combined GB Olympic team or any of the actual football topics that exist

[EalingGreen]

Just listening to some of the comments on here from the NI fans is confirmation if I needed any that they are not a team which can command my loyalty or support all this hatred of the South is rather depressing!Interesting take on the debate, there, SR. In my previous post, I highlighted the vitriol directed against the NI team and its fans etc by Gastric; as usual, Ardhee Bhoy (and others) weren't far behind. Can you point to equivalent abuse by NI fans on this thread?


Thats the North for you though I'm sure it works both ways but In general I don't think Republic fans really care that much about the 'IFA team'.If that is so, why do the likes of Gastric, AB, Geysir, Third Policeman and IFK etc devote so much time to posting about it?


On a side note I wouldn't be opposed to seeing an all Ireland team even if it was just for a friendly like that Shamrock Rovers XI back in the day. There might be more support for it within the North than some NI fans care to acknowledge.On what do you base that opinion? Have you spoken to many NI fans about it? For as someone who attends the majority of NI games, home and away, plus the occasional under-age game etc (and has been for decades), I can honestly say I've only ever met one NI fan who thinks that - and he's more of a rugby fan anyhow.
And as regards that famous Shamrock Rvrs XI specifically, I would point out that there is absolutley nothing to prevent someone restaging such a game, except that in the 37 years since(!), no-one has even bothered to try. What does that tell you about the appetite for a single Ireland team in the Republic, never mind that in NI?


It actually reminds me of when NI were on their worst run ever a few years ago and were only getting a few thousand at their games I remember the news were running items on whether it was time to do away with the NI team.Ah right. On matters such as this, it is not the Associations, clubs or fans etc who get to set the agenda, rather it must be for radio phone-in hosts and tabloid newspaper editors stuck for a "story" on a slow news day to do so...
I don't know what age you are, SR, but I am old enough to remember when the "Eire" team (as it was known then) went six full years without a Home win (including 4 1/2 years without a win of any kind, when they beat Iran 2-1 at a neutral venue). And that run came during a first 70 years of existence when they failed to qualify for a single major finals. Indeed, considering it is now 10 years since your team last beat a ranking team in a competitive game, I hardly think you are in a position to promote "lack of success" as grounds for questioning the existence of our team, thanks very much...

And in any case, now that FIFA/CAS have confirmed that the FAI may select players from throughout ireland, you have effectively got an all-Ireland team to support. Therefore, if you would champion the right of eg Darron Gibson to choose to play for "Ireland" [sic], does it not make you hypocritical to call for an end to the NI team, thereby denying choice to those Irishmen, Protestant and Catholic, Unionist and Nationalist, who are happy to play for NI?

After all, if as an ROI fan, you "don't really care about" the NI team*, why are you bothered by our continued existence?

* - Even enough to call us by our proper title...

[EalingGreen]

And you consistently take the bait and engage them in 'debate'.

Why? You surely don't expect to actually change their mind, do you?

All that happens, again and again, is the same arguments, counter-arguments, insults and counter-insults, bulls**t and counter-bulls**t gets trotted out, with nobody ever changing anybody's mind about anything, nor (I'd imagine) having any hope or expectation of doing so.So if I were consistently to abuse you and your team/fellow fans etc, with highly offensive distortions and lies etc, you would simply ignore it, then. Which explains why, for instance, when Bohs fans give out about Shams fans elsewhere in this forum, the latter do not respond (and vice versa).

Right.

[EalingGreen]

I'll answer questions when you stop being a blow hard and realise that beneath your long, long posts you're as petty as some of the thicks that are arguing with you.Thanks. Very helpful.


Not only are these circular debates extremely boring, they solve nothing. Everyone who posts once on the subject has the exact same position 20 posts later. So maybe, just maybe peoplee could state their position once, and leave it at that.Or maybe the Mods who are supposed to control the debate might intervene when certain posters make highly inflammatory, offensive and provocative generalisations etc about other members of the Board, thereby leading to more measured, focused discussion.


And then we can have a discussion on the merits of Scotland v NI in Dublin, of a combined GB Olympic team or any of the actual football topics that existI should be quite happy to participate in such discussion. However, if your reply to my considered and genuine questions to you are anything to go by, I won't hold my breath for anything too constructive from you...

[Drumcondra 69er]

Can we get back on topic please?

Ulster says No.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Who'd have thunk it? Another thread that involved both ROI and NI descends into the usual ********
And that a grand total of less than 10 people disagree?

To be fair to all parties, blame the Brits for invading us and then creating partition in the first place.
If they hadn't, there must have been some chance we'd have gone the way of a good no.of other sports and had a 'united' team.

We haven't, so the debate will remain into infinity, as in people will always wonder about the merits of a UI team, whilst others who feel its against their interests will disagree.

You may or may not have noticed this is an unavoidable (even if it was never mentioned on the entire web ever again!) extension of certain historical & cultural events in Ireland, which no doubt will be still played out for centuries to come, of which sport is just the tip of an iceberg. Though that is slowly declining....for now.