Celtic Cup thread

[geysir]

As long as we get through the Scotland game without too much grief, I think these 2 games will prove to be important preparation for the qualifier against Macedonia.

.

[paudie]

Perhaps the best option would be to run the tournament over a weekend in the same host city - ie have two semi finals on a Friday and final/ third place matches on a Sunday.

I'd drop NI from the tournament, rotate the hosting of the tournament between us, Scotland and Wales, and have the fourth team as an invite.

This years format was desperate. Even the timing of today's game at 6.30 won't attract Scottish daytrippers. Then again if Sky are paying the money they make the calls.
2 semis and afinal over a weekend would be better as would double headers.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Didn't Craig Levein call for '10,000 Tartan Army fans to travel to Dublin for Sunday's crunch Carling Nations meeting' in the Scottish media on Friday?

Hmm.

[DannyInvincible]

Guys im stuck in france, i need to see this game..does anyone hace a link to where i watch it ????????

Should hopefully get something suitable here as kick-off approaches: http://www.livefootballol.com/streaming/friendly/scotland-ireland-29-05-2011.html

You'll require Sopcast for some streams.

Something should appear here as well, just in case: http://www.myp2p.eu/index.php?part=sports

Also keep an eye on the football section.

[ArdeeBhoy]

There was a stream mentioned on Friday for the Wales game which definitely worked back then.

And maybe, tonight also?

[richieos]

www.atdhe.ws has yet to let me down for any matches

[DannyInvincible]

Except the "loophole" Sweeney refers to is not the GFA but rather the "change of association" clause in the eligibility statutes, no?

That is correct, although you could include article 15 in that as well.


The Gibson hate campaign? Was he referring to Colbert Report? :)

Whilst dubbing it a "hate campaign" might be a tad strong, there is certainly a lot of vitriol and antipathy reserved for Gibson. I'm not sure why he's loathed by general NI fans so much in particular given he's been with us from under-17 level. Maybe it's due to his high profile and a mistaken belief that he was the first to "set the ball rolling" or "open the floodgates".

[DannyInvincible]

www.atdhe.ws has yet to let me down for any matches

Ah, I was wondering where that site had disappeared. They changed their domain name.

[legendz]

That might work, but I was thinking, too, about having concentrated numbers of fans in town for a week-long tournament, creating atmosphere and generally bigging up the event in a way that a prolonged series of games doesn't. The good thing about the 6 Nations format is that from start to finish, it's over within two months - short, concentrated and omnipresent for its duration. Spinning out the CC over 7 months makes it lose momentum.

I don't see the need for having a concentrated number of fans in a city for a week. Atmosphere can be created on the day or two before a game in the city of the team with the home game.
The idea of the Nations Cup was to use the friendly dates so I'm not sure where the current arrangement came from. The qualifying process is spread out over an Autumn, Spring and Autumn. The three dates mentioned would be an even enough spread within about 6 months and run within the season the players play in. The nature of the competition was to give a more competitive game than a friendly. It doesn't need to be concentrated within a week, just played on the regular friendly dates.

[theworm2345]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFfCKy0nKr0

[ArdeeBhoy]

Unfortunately, Carling do 'do cups'....

Thank a higher power this nonsense is now over.
Still, the only 'trophy' we're likely to win for a while.

[DannyInvincible]

Great spur for the country. They'll look back at this triumph in documentaries in years to come and attribute it to Ireland's economic recovery and second boom.

[Sullivinho]

Great spur for the country. They'll look back at this triumph in documentaries in years to come and attribute it to Ireland's economic recovery and second boom.

The image of Trap hoisting the scrap metal becomes iconic as we speak.

[backstothewall]

Delighted with the victory. Delighted with the progress made, and delighted with everything that has been learned. Ward at left back, Kelly at centre back, and Cox up front in particular.

A full fortnight together and 2 semi-competitive games will do us no harm on the way to Macedonia. A win there and we are in really good shape.

[paudie]

Good prep for Macedonia game if nothing else.

Better to win the comp than not. Fairdues to the fans who turned out for the games this week.

[legendz]

I know the Nations Cup has had it's critics, it's been made easy for the critics as well with the embarrassing format drawn up leading to poor crowds. I enjoyed the games though, more so than friendlies which was part of the reason for the tournament.

[OwlsFan]

Really enjoyed the tournament. Some people called it "nonsense". Why? Because they wouldn't be bothered attending it themselves? The rugby crowd wet themselves when they get a triple crown. We got our own triple crown this weekend and won only the 2nd trophy in my life time and probably the last. The game on Sunday was competitive, played with a good atmosphere with the Scots adding to the occasion with their support. Are we so superior that we look down our noses at Northern Ireland and Wales? Why I don't know.

Most of the Scottish team was their first choice and it was a good competitive game with a fair few tackles flying in. They wanted to win the trophy was well. What do people want? Meaningly "glamour" games against Brazil or some such? I have enjoyed the games despite the stay at home "supporters" and not to concede in 3 games was amazing. Many fringe players got games and we won the Cup. What more could one ask and no injuries (of which I am aware).

The format of all games in one stadium didn't work out but live and learn. Nothing ventured etc etc

Biggest joy - seeing Given back and Robbie scoring and us winning the tournament.

Fingers crossed for Macedonia.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Excellent article in the Indo about Nigel Worthington and his crap attitude towards players playing for the Republic. Eamonn Sweeney mentions too Derek Dougan who was a visionary in terms of where he felt English soccer should seek its influence and style of play and was often deemed controversial for these views. I never knew that due to his beliefs about a United Irish team that his international career was ended. Watch out Niall McGinn - you could be next!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/nigel-has-got-to-put-up-or-shut-up-2660613.html

Hi Gastric, this story reminds me of one I've heard Nirvana fans tell about how Kurt Cobain designed the set of their MTV Unplugged performance so as to be his funeral service. Why? Because it's one thats taken to be true because it's repeated often enough and got mentioned on the telly. Also because it isn't supported by so much as a shred of evidence.

I know Dougan felt he was frozen out after the All-Ireland/shams 11 match, and it's understandable maybe that a person doesn't want to acknowledge their powers are waning, but there's simply no event horizon around his NI career that coincides with this game. Here's what is known -he was 35, he hadn't been picked in five NI sides preceeding the AI game and before that he'd not scored in his last ten NI games. In comparison to the modern era he would've been at a similar point of the NI career arc that Warren Feeney, never mind David Healy or Kyle Lafferty, is at now.

[Bottle of Tonic]

I dont really understand the bad turn out from Ireland fans for this tournament. I mean if we played Scotland in a one-off end of season friendly would we only expect a crowd of circa 18,000? You would Ireland would get 25,000 for any game and this one was 'competitive'. I understand the tournament didnt get great press but will the casual fan only turn up if we play big name opposition? Who are people there to see? So called world class players going through the motions or their own country?

[jbyrne]

I dont really understand the bad turn out from Ireland fans for this tournament. I mean if we played Scotland in a one-off end of season friendly would we only expect a crowd of circa 18,000? You would Ireland would get 25,000 for any game and this one was 'competitive'. I understand the tournament didnt get great press but will the casual fan only turn up if we play big name opposition? Who are people there to see? So called world class players going through the motions or their own country?

agree with this 100%. a big part of the problem was the continual sneering by our media at the tournament. it bordered childish on much of what i heard / read. the scots got behind it and brought about 12,000 fans with them over the three games

[geysir]

Also because it isn't supported by so much as a shred of evidence.

I know Dougan felt he was frozen out after the All-Ireland/shams 11 match, and it's understandable maybe that a person doesn't want to acknowledge their powers are waning, but there's simply no event horizon around his NI career that coincides with this game. Here's what is known -he was 35, he hadn't been picked in five NI sides preceeding the AI game and before that he'd not scored in his last ten NI games. In comparison to the modern era he would've been at a similar point of the NI career arc that Warren Feeney, never mind David Healy or Kyle Lafferty, is at now.
The shreds of evidence are that Dougan did have another year with Wolves in the top division, played in most games and scored 15 goals. Maybe he had a point that he was good enough or maybe his time with NI had passed. Dougan was not exactly a player who lacked belief in his ability but at least he worked hard to stay at the top until the age of 36.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Really enjoyed the tournament. Some people called it "nonsense". Why? Because they wouldn't be bothered attending it themselves? The rugby crowd wet themselves when they get a triple crown. We got our own triple crown this weekend and won only the 2nd trophy in my life time and probably the last.

Had tickets for all of them as a BB, but you couldn't give them away. And no, couldn't be bothered going to games v.3 non-countries. Two of whom a LOI XI would have given a game.
'Triple crown', you are joking??

Two away friendlies rather than two more non-events in Dublin would have been far more use, IMO.
Like the Italy one, but pointless after Macedonia.

And yes, am a glass half empty person.....

[jbyrne]

Two away friendlies rather than two more non-events in Dublin would have been far more use

yes, having the squad on the road in two different locations for 10 days or so in the build up to a very tricky away qualifier after a long season would have been ideal preparation for next saturday

[Stuttgart88]

Whatever about it being a nonsense it's clear now that the team has had some useful workouts and by the sound of things a real rapport has been built up in the squad. We need this backs to the wall spirit.

Sounds like there's even a strong tone of support gathering here as well.

Boring tournament, very useful preparation exercise.

[ArdeeBhoy]

yes, having the squad on the road in two different locations for 10 days or so in the build up to a very tricky away qualifier after a long season would have been ideal preparation for next saturday

Er, no. A friendly in Feb and one to some mid-ranking team eg.Belgium around this weekend....

[OwlsFan]

Had tickets for all of them as a BB, but you couldn't give them away. And no, couldn't be bothered going to games v.3 non-countries. Two of whom a LOI XI would have given a game.
....

A bit like Scotland then and Celtic? One competitive other team. Why bother going to any of the other games? If everyone in Scotland followed your attitude, the games at Parkhead/Ibrox would be half empty for all but the Old Firm games.

The Scottish team is also made up primarily of current or former Celtic and Rangers players described by you as a "non-country".

So what you are saying is that you will only go to support Ireland when they are playing big opposition in a friendly or in qualifying games for the two main tournaments? That's your choice but to describe the tournament as a "nonsense" is very myopic and failing to see what it has done for the fringe players and for players like Robbie and Shay.

I am not saying I got terribly excited by the whole thing but I enjoyed the games, I enjoyed us winning the games, us winning the trophy, seeing fringe players, us not conceding a goal, Shay playing well, Robbie scoring, the great Scots' support, lots of kids at the games getting involved, the sad faces of the Nordies at the end on the game against them and us heading off to Macedonia in a positive frame of mind. A "nonsense" ? I don't think so.

[Kingdom]

Really enjoyed the tournament. Some people called it "nonsense". Why? Because they wouldn't be bothered attending it themselves? The rugby crowd wet themselves when they get a triple crown. We got our own triple crown this weekend and won only the 2nd trophy in my life time and probably the last. The game on Sunday was competitive, played with a good atmosphere with the Scots adding to the occasion with their support. Are we so superior that we look down our noses at Northern Ireland and Wales? Why I don't know.

Most of the Scottish team was their first choice and it was a good competitive game with a fair few tackles flying in. They wanted to win the trophy was well. What do people want? Meaningly "glamour" games against Brazil or some such? I have enjoyed the games despite the stay at home "supporters" and not to concede in 3 games was amazing. Many fringe players got games and we won the Cup. What more could one ask and no injuries (of which I am aware).

The format of all games in one stadium didn't work out but live and learn. Nothing ventured etc etc

Biggest joy - seeing Given back and Robbie scoring and us winning the tournament.

Fingers crossed for Macedonia.

Super post Owls fan.

[ArdeeBhoy]

A bit like Scotland then and Celtic? One competitive other team. Why bother going to any of the other games? If everyone in Scotland followed your attitude, the games at Parkhead/Ibrox would be half empty for all but the Old Firm games.

The Scottish team is also made up primarily of current or former Celtic and Rangers players described by you as a "non-country".

So what you are saying is that you will only go to support Ireland when they are playing big opposition in a friendly or in qualifying games for the two main tournaments? That's your choice but to describe the tournament as a "nonsense" is very myopic and failing to see what it has done for the fringe players and for players like Robbie and Shay.

I am not saying I got terribly excited by the whole thing but I enjoyed the games, I enjoyed us winning the games, us winning the trophy, seeing fringe players, us not conceding a goal, Shay playing well, Robbie scoring, the great Scots' support, lots of kids at the games getting involved, the sad faces of the Nordies at the end on the game against them and us heading off to Macedonia in a positive frame of mind. A "nonsense" ? I don't think so.

The SPL analogy doesn't stand up as Celtic & Rangers have been playing those teams for decades and is a national league after all. And yes, in these economically pressed times, people will vote with their feet.

Am sick of pointless home Ireland friendlies at this stage, of which these were three v. crap opposition. Not to mention the cost.
In a completely pointless competition. Did the aggregate crowd for the 6 games come to even 50k?

And don't care what the away fans thought, am rather more interested in seeing the qualifiers half of which are now cr*p also, due to Trap's now depressing tactics.

[elroy]

I enjoyed the tourno although the crowds were a disaster. But then again how many turned up the night of the uruguay match? Unfort the days of ppl paying 35+ for a friendly are gone.

I think the format of the tournament was ill thought out. There were never going to be good crowds for the games w/o Ireland. I think it should be given another few tries yet, very few tournaments take off right for the start. Run it every two years. Play it similar to 6N, one game at home two away one year and vice versa the next. Play over the calendar year on friendly dates.

Last night was a good game and a good test considering that Scotland are on a par with Macedonia. Plus the time together and the success cant do any harm for the squad morale etc

Going forward, I think something needs to be done about friendlies. Hopefully the lower prices will see more come to friendlies. However alot of lads i know down the country buy the BB/season ticket but dont make the midweek friendlies due to travel costs etc. I think something needs to be worked where the lower tiers are filled (even at upper tier prices). While I appreciate the two tiered pricing, the fact that the upper tiers are almost full and the lower tiers are nearly empty just doesnt look good.

I heard that clown Paul Collins on Today fm this morning, mentioning on more than one occasion how the Tipp V Cork game got 32k yday, 6k more than our national side. In reality Paul, the "national side" for this game were by and large competing for numbers from the greater Dublin area. So then a more apt comparison would be the Dublin V Offaly game which only attracted 15k.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I think the format of the tournament was ill thought out. There were never going to be good crowds for the games w/o Ireland. I think it should be given another few tries yet, very few tournaments take off right for the start. Run it every two years. Play it similar to 6N, one game at home two away one year and vice versa the next. Play over the calendar year on friendly dates.
Your only valid point is the one about using the friendly dates. Though it's supposed to be bi-annual.
Otherwise, why would we want to play three non-countries who're even worse than us, makes no sense....

[Bottle of Tonic]

personally I'd rather see us play these NC games vs similar and local opposition than against some half arsed glamour side playing in kick about mode.

Agree though we should have more decent away friendlies.

[Bottle of Tonic]

Also tournament has suffered cos Wales and NI are so brutal at moment. I'm sure whinging Speed and Worthington would love to slink off to Lithuania or Iceland for their friendlies and get hammered there where no one would notice.

[ArdeeBhoy]

We'd have been better off playing Greece, Iceland and Portugal in some sort of 'bankrupt' Nations Cup, with all the fans paid to attend and the winners getting the biggest EU/IMF bailout....

[Charlie Darwin]

personally I'd rather see us play these NC games vs similar and local opposition than against some half arsed glamour side playing in kick about mode.

Agree though we should have more decent away friendlies.
The reason we tend not to have many away friendlies is because historically we get better attendances than most other countries. We could get close to capacity for some games against unglamorous opposition, something that wouldn't be the case were we to visit Slovenia or Austria. Most countries like playing away games because it's a guaranteed payday: it's only us, England and some of the bigger countries that can take the financial risk of hosting an international friendly. I think with the recent drop in gates we'll see more events like Italy in Liege and Brazil in London.

[Murfinator]

Really enjoyed the tournament. Some people called it "nonsense". Why? Because they wouldn't be bothered attending it themselves? The rugby crowd wet themselves when they get a triple crown. We got our own triple crown this weekend and won only the 2nd trophy in my life time and probably the last. The game on Sunday was competitive, played with a good atmosphere with the Scots adding to the occasion with their support. Are we so superior that we look down our noses at Northern Ireland and Wales? Why I don't know.

Most of the Scottish team was their first choice and it was a good competitive game with a fair few tackles flying in. They wanted to win the trophy was well. What do people want? Meaningly "glamour" games against Brazil or some such? I have enjoyed the games despite the stay at home "supporters" and not to concede in 3 games was amazing. Many fringe players got games and we won the Cup. What more could one ask and no injuries (of which I am aware).

The format of all games in one stadium didn't work out but live and learn. Nothing ventured etc etc

Biggest joy - seeing Given back and Robbie scoring and us winning the tournament.

Fingers crossed for Macedonia.

Ridiculous to even mention Rugby, The triple crown was achieved beating 3 teams all ranked in the top 10 in the world. This tournaments opposition contained #65, #66, and #114 in the world. There is no honour beating teams of that caliber, performances against teams that poor is of no relevance to qualifications to major tournaments as we'll never play teams that bad in them.
Our own players in their droves snubbed to chance to appear in this and you question why fans might dismiss it? Enjoy your trophy, beating 3 nothing teams at home is not anything I'll take the slightest bit of pride or satisfaction from.

It is what it is, a silly friendly cup desperately trying to stake a claim for relevance based on geographical location. This should never be the basis for friendly selection, I want competitive games at a level that will serve us well on our journey to qualification. Russia dismantled us with a 4-5-1 possession game, why not target friendlies against teams who play similarly to demo tactics for overcoming them. As much of a laugh our reserves got from winning the tournament 9-0 on aggregate I sincerely doubt they got anything useful from it.

[boovidge]

only about 10 countries in the world play rugby anyway.

[SkStu]

Really enjoyed the tournament. Some people called it "nonsense"..

Phil Collins is not a fan of the Celtic Nations Cup.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_e3BsDt7_O88/TKzTM_RCAAI/AAAAAAAAz9U/5JMp2sggsRU/s400/(3)+collins-nonce-sense.jpg

[Gather round]

This tournaments opposition contained #65, #66, and #114 in the world. There is no honour beating teams of that caliber, performances against teams that poor is of no relevance to qualifications to major tournaments as we'll never play teams that bad in them

Three of the 2010 finalists (South Africa, New Zealand and North Korea) were ranked below #66 when the tournament started.

[Stuttgart88]

Hey, if you guys had taken it more seriously the tournie would have been pereceived better!

Anyway, the WC had 32 teams. The CC had 4!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Most countries like playing away games because it's a guaranteed payday: it's only us, England and some of the bigger countries that can take the financial risk of hosting an international friendly. I think with the recent drop in gates we'll see more events like Italy in Liege and Brazil in London.

Here's hoping....


Three of the 2010 finalists (South Africa, New Zealand and North Korea) were ranked below #66 when the tournament started.

Yeah, so what? They weren't invited. Would that they were.

[OwlsFan]

Why would we want to play three non-countries who're even worse than us, makes no sense....

Norn Iron ranked 65 and Scotland 66. FYR Macedonia 85. I see every reason.

If teams only played countries of a higher rank, then no one would play anybody!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Somehow there's always going to be 3, if not 10, or even 33 teams ranked ahead of us.
So that would be a start.

And FYROM will probably prove tougher than either of those two.

[Stuttgart88]

In fairness, a full ROI XI vs a full NI XI would have had plenty of interest and context. FYROM probably will be tougher than NI's under 19s. Well spotted.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aye, but more worried about playing them than even a combined 'Best of' side from all the other players in the CNC.

[EastTerracer]

Ridiculous to even mention Rugby, The triple crown was achieved beating 3 teams all ranked in the top 10 in the world.

There are barely 10 countries who play rugby seriously so I think you need to think a bit more carefully before casting the word ridiculous around.

[legendz]

Your only valid point is the one about using the friendly dates. Though it's supposed to be bi-annual.
Otherwise, why would we want to play three non-countries who're even worse than us, makes no sense....

While I'd like to see it every year, every two years is probably about right. Aug, Nov and Feb are the only friendly dates available really that'll be of use.

[tetsujin1979]

As regards the comparisons with the Icelandic tournament won by Charlton, what players that were on the periphery of the squad, or made their debuts in the tournament, went on to become mainstays in the team?

[Kingdom]

Didn't Scotland play a 4-5-1?

We win, we whinge. Had we lost, we'd whinge. Someone on this board in the past 48 hours said "we all want to see Ireland do well" - I challenge that, there's a couple of names springing to mind that I never get the sense they want the team to do well. If we beat Eng in the friendly we're on for the Grand Slam. Boo-ya.

[BonnieShels]

Didn't Scotland play a 4-5-1?

We win, we whinge. Had we lost, we'd whinge. Someone on this board in the past 48 hours said "we all want to see Ireland do well" - I challenge that, there's a couple of names springing to mind that I never get the sense they want the team to do well. If we beat Eng in the friendly we're on for the Grand Slam. Boo-ya.


Will we have to be beat Italy and France to take the "Real Slam"?

[Gather round]

Hey, if you guys had taken it more seriously the tournie would have been pereceived better!

I did take it seriously- watched all 270 agonising minutes ;)

As mentioned here, I was genuinely planning to come over for the Wales game- it wouldn't be the first international friendly I've watched in a crowd of hundreds- but the IFA's insistence that we paid them to be bussed down from Belfast irritated me more.

Anyway, the chance has come up for a mini-break in beautiful Belgium next week. During the trip I will have the pleasure of lunch with at least one senior member of this forum. Anyone there and wishing to join us, I'll be in instantly recognisable national dress:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_I1VjuiyxIoQ/SlMKFq5d34I/AAAAAAAAAKk/aElLM3L6lyI/s400/magritte.jpg