Celtic Cup thread

[ArdeeBhoy]

Given the history of the island and its cultural associations, to wish or expect sport, as with other social aspects, to be detached from that history is Utopian in the extreme.

[pineapple stu]

But to not have every single thread which comes within an arse's roar of the topic go down the tube because of the same old arguments is tedious in the extreme.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hey, history is tedious now??
Was ever thus and ever will be.

Maybe come back in two hundred years when we're all dead....

If you don't like the thread, then hey, don't read it!!!

[pineapple stu]

If you don't like the thread, then hey, don't read it!!!
It'd be a lot quicker just to get rid of those who keep dragging every thread down. We want to read about the Celtic Cup competition, not about religious divides.

[ArdeeBhoy]

But the whole point is part of the reason the competition exists, is because of an, er, religious and political divide!!!

Like I said, History.

[pineapple stu]

Who cares why it exists? People want to discuss the football without the tiny minority dragging the thread off into religion.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hmm, people don't care why their country, or adjoining areas exist??
And then just play sports against them without any regard to that???

Local rivalries will always exist. The heightened historical influence just spices it up a bit.

[BonnieShels]

We could give AB and EG their own thread...

[Wolfie]

Given the history of the island and its cultural associations, to wish or expect sport, as with other social aspects, to be detached from that history is Utopian in the extreme.

You're missing the point.


Hey, history is tedious now??
Was ever thus and ever will be.

Maybe come back in two hundred years when we're all dead....

If you don't like the thread, then hey, don't read it!!!

You're missing the point.


But the whole point is part of the reason the competition exists, is because of an, er, religious and political divide!!!

Like I said, History.

You're missing the point.


Hmm, people don't care why their country, or adjoining areas exist??
And then just play sports against them without any regard to that???

Local rivalries will always exist. The heightened historical influence just spices it up a bit.

You're missing the point.

[ArdeeBhoy]

And your point??

[ArdeeBhoy]

And your point??
;)

[SkStu]

i think his point is shaddapa ya face

[BonnieShels]

I think the Benilyn is having an effect because that made me guffaw on the bus. ;)

[outspoken]

anybody know if you will be able to get tickets for the other nations games in ticketmaster ie. scotland vs wales etc

[ArdeeBhoy]

I'm sure there'll be dozens on sale on the day, at face value or probably less.
Guessing they'll only bother to open 1-2 stands for the 'neutral' games and maybe only up to 3, for our matches.
If they have any sense.

[cornflakes]

sky are reporting the english, welsh, scots and nordies are in negotiations to play the Home Nations Cup from next year on.
Could be the end for the Celtic Cup or maybe we should swear allegiance to liz so we can play too?

[EalingGreen]

sky are reporting the english, welsh, scots and nordies are in negotiations to play the Home Nations Cup from next year on.
Could be the end for the Celtic CupSadly I'm old enough to have been an avid fan of the "real" Home Championships back in the days of old.
Nonetheless I'm still too wary of all the various hurdles which presumably still need to be surmounted before the HC's can be revived etc, before I start giving it a Kevin Keegan-stylee "I'd love it, I'd really love it" rant.

However if somehow it should come about, I can't see there being room for the ROI also to be involved, since a fifth team would add more matches than the international calendar could possibly accommodate (outside WC's and Euros etc).


maybe we should swear allegiance to liz so we can play too?I don't care if everyone stood on their head and sang Rule Britannia on O'Connell Street three times a day, my reaction would be "Up your* hole with a jam roll!"


* - Don't mean you personally, cornflakes, or ROI fans generally etc; rather that snake Delaney and his bunch of cronies out at Abbotstown.

[boovidge]

If NI Wales and Scotland are in the British championships I don't see any reason why they would want to continue to participate in the "celtic" cup. Looks like it could be a one off.

[Cuyahoga]

Northern Ireland and the Republic should join together for this tournament if it happens so there would be four teams in it then, Ireland, Scotland and England and Wales. Easy, problem solved.

[shakermaker1982]

I feel sorry for the FAI if this is true. The Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish are now gonna ditch the Celtic Cup because their big brother now wants to play ball with em?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Northern Ireland and the Republic should join together for this tournament if it happens so there would be four teams in it then, Ireland, Scotland and England and Wales. Easy, problem solved.
Ha Ha.
;)

Expect the likes of EG, GR & their ilk to take their own advice on behaviour in O'Connell Street if that was the case. Or spontaneously combust.

And no sympathy for The FAI about such a crappy competition.
There's an economic depression in the country and they're trying to launch a completely pointless tournament v. 3 other sides even more mediocre than us, FFS.

[Sullivinho]

Northern Ireland and the Republic should join together

I thoroughly agree.

[Dodge]

I feel sorry for the FAI if this is true. The Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish are now gonna ditch the Celtic Cup because their big brother now wants to play ball with em?

just in time for the 2012 Olympics?

[Kingdom]

Ha Ha.
;)

Expect the likes of EG, GR & their ilk to take their own advice on behaviour in O'Connell Street if that was the case. Or spontaneously combust.

And no sympathy for The FAI about such a crappy competition.
There's an economic depression in the country and they're trying to launch a completely pointless tournament v. 3 other sides even more mediocre than us, FFS.

Where opposition fans will come on three seperate occasions and spend money while showcasing the stadium. Also providing the fans home friendlies rather than spending money travelling across europe for friendlies. Stupid FAI.

[boovidge]

The BBC understands the details of a revived British Championship are yet to be sorted out but it is likely to follow the format used by rugby union's Six Nations, with home advantage in alternate years. Inviting Ireland to take part is also a possibility.

Let's not start the all Ireland team debate yet again.

[ifk101]

Sadly I'm old enough to have been an avid fan of the "real" Home Championships back in the days of old.
Nonetheless I'm still too wary of all the various hurdles which presumably still need to be surmounted before the HC's can be revived etc, before I start giving it a Kevin Keegan-stylee "I'd love it, I'd really love it" rant.

However if somehow it should come about, I can't see there being room for the ROI also to be involved, since a fifth team would add more matches than the international calendar could possibly accommodate (outside WC's and Euros etc).

Considering that the fourth team in the competition was called Ireland all but for a handful of tournaments, it's not necessarily the case that room needs to be made for the ROI to compete. As an avid fan of said "real" Championship, surely you'd welcome the return of Ireland to the competition and the fielding of a team that fully represents Ireland? After all it wouldn't be the "real" Championship without Ireland.

[drummerboy]

The All-Ireland thing will never happen especially with another brace of defections to the Republic from NI about to take place.

[ifk101]

Both the Times and Independent are reporting that the FAI look set to be involved in the renewed Home Championships (if it happens)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0111/1224287234093.html

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ireland-invited-to-play-part-in-expanded-home-nations-2491018.html

[Gather round]

If NI Wales and Scotland are in the British championships I don't see any reason why they would want to continue to participate in the "celtic" cup. Looks like it could be a one off

It could well be a one-off anyway, but that's largely down to the eccentric way it's been organised. If that could be improved, I'd have no problem with a 'Celtic' rather than 'Home' tournament. Put simply England are the least likely of the five to commit to anything. Their claim that the original HI was dropped because of fixture congestion is baloney; they kept on playing friendlies afterwards, just against other presumably more lucrative opponents.


Northern Ireland and the Republic should join together for this tournament if it happens so there would be four teams in it then, Ireland, Scotland and England and Wales. Easy, problem solved.

Who said there was a problem? You might find that R.E.M. and U2 merging into one team is more likely.


I feel sorry for the FAI if this is true. The Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish are now gonna ditch the Celtic Cup because their big brother now wants to play ball with em?

I wouldn't feel too sorry. I mean, you lot should be able to arrange a one-off with Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay even if England decide to play ball (unlikely, I reckon).


Expect the likes of EG, GR & their ilk to take their own advice on behaviour in O'Connell Street if that was the case

Thanks, but that won't be necessary. I'm confident of behaving properly in Dublin; I lived there, remember.


just in time for the 2012 Olympics?

The BBC are saying no earlier than 2013, if it happens at all.


surely you'd welcome the return of Ireland to the competition and the fielding of a team that fully represents Ireland?

A team representing Ireland never left the competition. But if the FAI want to join too, that's fine.


Both the Times and Independent are reporting that the FAI look set to be involved in the renewed Home Championships (if it happens)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0111/1224287234093.html

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ireland-invited-to-play-part-in-expanded-home-nations-2491018.html

It would be careless of the FAI (and local media) not to seek to be involved, if it happens.

The obvious problem with five teams rather than four is that it almost doubles the number of games from six to 10. Fitting everything might be difficult.


The All-Ireland thing will never happen especially with another brace of defections to the Republic from NI about to take place

Were you thinking of a couple of specific players? I'm sure you're right that there's no likelihood of an end to the NI team, but that would be the case even if a couple of youth players didn't decide not to play for it.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Where opposition fans will come on three seperate occasions and spend money while showcasing the stadium.
Also providing the fans home friendlies rather than spending money travelling across europe for friendlies. Stupid FAI.
Hmm. No more than 3k, as in Alba? The tiniest county would bring more than that for any sort of important GAA game....

As for being 'showcased', well the Europa Lge. Final should increase that massively.

Finally as for home friendlies, thanks but No. 90% of them are pure crap at this stage.


Who said there was a problem?
Erm, Why not ask yer man EG;Am sure he'll remind you!
;)


I'm confident of behaving properly in Dublin; I lived there, remember.
And?
You seem to know remarkably little about the place then, given some of the other questions yer asking online.


A team representing Ireland never left the competition. But if the FAI want to join too, that's fine.

It would be careless of the FAI (and local media) not to seek to be involved, if it happens.

The obvious problem with five teams rather than four is that it almost doubles the number of games from six to 10. Fitting everything might be difficult.

Hmm, that team 'representing Ireland' have hardly embraced an AI philosophy! Whereas this one would!
That aside, the latter two 'points' seem to contradict, by saying they should get involved, but there's no time to play the games, yeah right.


Were you thinking of a couple of specific players? I'm sure you're right that there's no likelihood of an end to the NI team, but that would be the case even if a couple of youth players didn't decide not to play for it.

Just let's say a couple of people who received recent correspondence, not to mention numerous others, must be regretting any links with the North, let alone any soccer team that alludes to represent the place.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Genuinely surprised the English are interested in this.

Maybe they're looking to compete for a trophy they might actually win and against opposition they could concievably beat?
But I've said before if I were an England manager I'd see little percentage in participating in this and, if it were within my negotiating power, I'd want it written into my contract that I could not be sacked after a game in this sort-of-not-quite competition.

[ArdeeBhoy]

As a one-off it's just about bearable to decide "Champions of Mediocrity", locally.

The 'Ingerland' factor just opens up the other can of worms again about a large no. of their more undesirable citizens potentially travelling to Dublin to pick a fight with locals.
Not to mention the fact, they hardly raise the bar to the level of 'glamour friendly', that Ireland, Scotland & Wales should be aiming for?

[passinginterest]

Henry Winter: the return of the Home Internationals would be about as welcome as the return of hooliganism (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/8251397/Henry-Winter-the-return-of-the-Home-Internationals-would-be-about-as-welcome-as-the-return-of-hooliganism.html)


This morning at Wembley, venue for those pitch-invading Scots in 1977, the Football Association will reveal that it has been discussing the possibility of relaunching the four-way British rollerball. Welcome back to the dark ages.


I think it's fair to see he doesn't see any benefit to the revival of the competition.

[gastric]

It seems we would be invited to compete. Do we really want to though!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ireland-invited-to-play-part-in-expanded-home-nations-2491018.html

[shakermaker1982]

I think ING GER LAND are starting to consider this more seriously because of the WC bidding disaster. A bit of a **** you to FIFA and other nations who let them down.

[paul_oshea]

Ya and possibly expand it in the future

[The Fly]

Who said there was a problem? You might find that R.E.M. and U2 merging into one team is more likely.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Baby http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/public/style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif

[jbyrne]

would be very interested in the expanded tournament. tired of attending friendlies where nothing happens and we learn nothing. add a bit of cometition to it and we might actually learn something about possible new players. i am not a big believer in the thought that we have to play against differant styles of football to learn something about our players. far more interested in how our prospective players will get on in a quicker more competitive game.

[Dodge]

The FA have announced they're hoping to organise a one off tournament in 2013 to celebrate their anniversary. They stressed one off.

The FAI have confirmed that the Celtic Cup is contracted for only one year

[ArdeeBhoy]

Amen to that.

[Murfinator]

Who would want to watch a tournament consisting of 5 shambolic counter teams who can't pass a ball to save their lives. The Six Nations is interesting because it matches countries of differing styles and all of whom are near the pinnacle of their sport making it a significant competition. This is just a handful of nothing teams most of whom don't qualify for competitions and those that do are early round fodder.

I don't think there'd be trouble at these, I think people genuinely won't care and stadia won't be filled. I can't think of anything less appealing than playing the 4 british sides, I really can't.

[EalingGreen]

Northern Ireland and the Republic should join together for this tournament if it happens so there would be four teams in it then, Ireland, Scotland and England and Wales. Easy, problem solved.AMAZING!!!

Even the mathematics are impeccable.

Why has no-one thought of this before?

[EalingGreen]

Considering that the fourth team in the competition was called Ireland all but for a handful of tournaments, it's not necessarily the case that room needs to be made for the ROI to compete. As an avid fan of said "real" Championship, surely you'd welcome the return of Ireland to the competition and the fielding of a team that fully represents Ireland?The competition - the oldest international football competition in the world, btw - was originally devised, and competed for, by the representative teams of the four "Home" Associations: FA, IFA, SFA and FAW.

As such, the IFA representative team was called "Ireland" almost until the end of the competition, the IFA voluntarily deciding to switch to the name "Northern Ireland" for their team sometime around 1970.

Assuming that the four original Associations decide to compete once more in 2013 and the FAI is also invited to enter a team to represent them, then it will mean the tournament will consist of five teams. Among the consequences will be that whatever else, the FAI team will NOT be permitted to call itself "Ireland" and on the basis that the IFA will not enforce its own continuing right to use the name, then the two Irish international teams will inevitably be called "Northern Ireland" and "Republic of Ireland". Which is as it should be (imo).


After all it wouldn't be the "real" Championship without Ireland.It wouldn't be the "real" Championship without the trophy, either. I wonder where that got to?
http://www.classicfootballdvds.com/HOME%20CHAMP.bmp

P.S. Don't you mean the "British Championship", btw?

[Dodge]

the IFA voluntarily deciding to switch to the name "Northern Ireland" for their team sometime around 1970

Martyrs

[ArdeeBhoy]

Given the latest postal shenanigans, you'd have to wonder if certain of the Paranoid Fraternity would have anything more dramatic in mind between Feb and the end of May.....

[ifk101]

P.S. Don't you mean the "British Championship", btw?

The British Home Championship actually if we are going to take the pedantic route. But revealing that you would highlight that.

[Gather round]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Baby http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/public/style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif

Touche. I must have missed the fan club invite to that gig :)

[third policeman]

AMAZING!!!

Even the mathematics are impeccable.

Why has no-one thought of this before?

Actually for a one off competition it sounds like a good idea. The original Home Internationals featured a single "Ireland" team, so it would be a fitting way of honouring the common footballing heritage of the IFA and FAI. So long as there is no suggestion or expectation that this would be a harbinger of merger, I cannot honestly see your problem EG (or GR). Personally I would love to see all the people of Ireland and for that matter all the people of Northern Ireland being given a one off opportunity to get behind the same football team.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Good shout TP.

But what about the "Never, never...." constituency though....

[Not Brazil]

Good shout TP.

But what about the "Never, never...." constituency though....

That'll be a polite "No Thank You" from the vast majority of the Northern Ireland fanbase :-)

Now...if the breakaway Association wishes to participate, in addition to the original Irish Football Association, I'm sure it would add to the spectacle.