Celtic Cup thread [Archive] - Page 8

tetsujin1979

01/02/2011, 10:28 AM

Scotland squad announced: http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=128&newsCategoryID=6&newsID=7132

Charlie Adam (Blackpool)
Barry Bannan (Aston Villa)
Phil Bardsley (Sunderland)
Cameron Bell (Kilmarnock)
Christophe Berra (Wolves)
Scott Brown (Celtic)
Gary Caldwell (Wigan Athletic)
Kris Commons (Celtic)
Graham Dorrans (West Bromwich Albion)
Darren Fletcher (Manchester United)
Craig Gordon (Sunderland)
Grant Hanley (Blackburn Rovers)
Alan Hutton (Tottenham Hotspur)
Chris Maguire (Aberdeen)
Lee McCulloch (Rangers)
Allan McGregor (Rangers)
Kenny Miller (Bursaspor)
James Morrison (West Bromwich Albion)
Steven Naismith (Rangers)
Robert Snodgrass (Leeds United)
Danny Wilson (Liverpool)
Mark Wilson (Celtic)

geysir

01/02/2011, 12:43 PM

The Norway friendly game was instructive. I thought at times we looked a shambles compared to an average but efficient international team that has embraced belief, organisation and discipline.
When Norway needed to, after a shaky start, they found the space down the left, other times they passed their way around Fahey and Whelan.

McCarthy apart, this is the squad. I'll wait and see what team and subs are played and how we perform against Wales.

ifk101

01/02/2011, 1:53 PM

Whatever about embracing belief (what that is I do not know), we are not lacking in organisation and discipline as defined byTrapattoni.

geysir

01/02/2011, 2:27 PM

We have shown it in some games of course but not against Norway, they outdid us in those departments and they did with a team of ordinary enough talent.

ifk101

01/02/2011, 2:39 PM

We were the better team for the first 15-20 mins of that game. Norway were able to adapt to our gameplan at this point and were the better team from then on.

Organisation and discipline isn't something we lack. The ability to adapt, in terms of flexibility and creativity is where we come second best.

What's noteworthy about the Norwegian game is that it once again showed that teams playing with a fluid/ flexible formation can "easily" overcome our rigid, unimaginative shape.

Stuttgart88

01/02/2011, 10:30 PM

Organisation and discipline isn't something we lack. The ability to adapt, in terms of flexibility and creativity is where we come second best.

What's noteworthy about the Norwegian game is that it once again showed that teams playing with a fluid/ flexible formation can "easily" overcome our rigid, unimaginative shape.Mostly right, imho, but our organisation has also been found wanting. Slovakia's equaliser? Most of the first hour against Russia?

I'm not so sure it's a matter of shape as any shape is fluid and dynamic if the players move about intelligently. I think we have failed to execute the "well organised without the ball" tactic just too often now to want to depend on it.

Against Norway we just sat back and gave away the initiative when in total control. After 20 minutes I was sure we were heading for 3-0. Moral courage, negative tactics, instructions. Whatever. We should never have conceded the initiative in that game.

ArdeeBhoy

01/02/2011, 10:51 PM

Trap is just too negative full stop.

ifk101

02/02/2011, 6:47 AM

Mostly right, imho, but our organisation has also been found wanting. Slovakia's equaliser? Most of the first hour against Russia?

I'm not sure I'd put it down to a lack of organisation as they are organised to Trapattoni's instructions. The lack of adaptability, creativity and flexibility in how Trapattoni organises the team is proving to be problematic.

I'm not so sure it's a matter of shape as any shape is fluid and dynamic if the players move about intelligently. I think we have failed to execute the "well organised without the ball" tactic just too often now to want to depend on it.

Against Norway we just sat back and gave away the initiative when in total control. After 20 minutes I was sure we were heading for 3-0. Moral courage, negative tactics, instructions. Whatever. We should never have conceded the initiative in that game.

I agree but for the want of trying to avoid repetition, the players are organised and disciplined to how Trapattoni wants us to play the game. Sitting back and giving away the initiative is something we have seen many a time under Trapattoni. Cyprus for example had 60-70% of the ball the last time they played against us in Dublin.

tetsujin1979

02/02/2011, 9:20 AM

I agree but for the want of trying to avoid repetition, the players are organised and disciplined to how Trapattoni wants us to play the game. Sitting back and giving away the initiative is something we have seen many a time under Trapattoni. Cyprus for example had 60-70% of the ball the last time they played against us in Dublin.
according to this - http://soccernet.espn.go.com/match?id=236143&cc=5739 - it was 55%/45% in our favour

paul_oshea

02/02/2011, 9:21 AM

Its always hard to be tets in the auld arguements as he always has the stats to back it up :)

I still think you can have a lot of the ball and not be in control though. A lot of that depends on where you have the ball.

ifk101

02/02/2011, 9:48 AM

according to this - http://soccernet.espn.go.com/match?id=236143&cc=5739 - it was 55%/45% in our favour

Fair enough. Didn't seem like that at the time. :bigsmile:

Stuttgart88

02/02/2011, 10:51 AM

It never does watching Ireland!

gilberto_eire

02/02/2011, 12:14 PM

I don't remember Darron Gibson starting that game

Jicked

02/02/2011, 12:20 PM

I don't remember Darron Gibson starting that game

Trap threw him in to start a qualifier before most people had ever seen him play for United, or had heard much about him. Just like the idea that we were hammered in that game, the idea that Trap is never willing to try out young players is a bit wide of the mark.

Dodge

02/02/2011, 12:50 PM

Gibson made his debut for Ireland while playing in the Belgian 2nd division

Noelys Guitar

02/02/2011, 1:58 PM

Trap picked Gibson (poor game) ahead of Andy Reid for non-footballing reasons in that Cyprus match. And his choice of Gibson has not worked out very well our else he would be starting ahead of Green, Whelan and Fahey.

Stuttgart88

02/02/2011, 2:22 PM

Gibson is not industrious enough for Trap (or anyone!). I'm a big fan of Andy Reid but he was pretty awful against Cyprus when we drew 1-1 with them, after he had played beautifully against Germany.

SkStu

02/02/2011, 3:15 PM

Gibson is not industrious enough for Trap (or anyone!). I'm a big fan of Andy Reid but he was pretty awful against Cyprus when we drew 1-1 with them, after he had played beautifully against Germany.

thats a very Trappatoni turn of phrase... :)

Closed Account

02/02/2011, 4:33 PM

Early Twitter reports the final 22 squad as

Given
Westwood

O'Shea
Clark
Coleman
Dunne
St Ledger
S Kelly
O'Dea

Wilson
Gibson
Whelan
Green
Lawrence
Treacy
Duff
McCarthy

Keane
Walters
Doyle
Long
Best

(Dropped/Injured: Foley, McShane, Kilbane; McGeady, Fahey, Hunt; Keogh, Stokes)
This will be fun......

Closed Account

02/02/2011, 4:37 PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/wales/8285605/Gary-Speed-to-name-Gareth-Bale-in-Wales-squad.html

Okay, so the 29 man squad is preliminary. So we've to lose 6 players.
I'd drop 2 from D, M and F's, (O'Dea, McShane, Treacy, Green, Keogh, Stokes)
Why did they name 22 if they could name 23?
Anyway

Injured: Foley, McShane, Hunt
Match/Preseason: Kilbane, McGeady
Dropped: Keogh

Standby: Fahey, Stokes

So Fahey gets dropped for McCarthy. and Stokes was just the odd man out in too many strikers. Doesn't fit into Traps system really.

tetsujin1979

02/02/2011, 4:47 PM

Stokes is playing against Rangers on Sunday, only two days previous, might have something to do with it

SkStu

02/02/2011, 4:48 PM

what a weak spined, lily livered manager we have in charge of us, adding McCarthy after a bit of pressure from some foot.ie regulars. We're doomed i tells ya, doomed!

;) ;) ;)

Seriously though can we clarify why the dropped players were dropped? (injury or droppage)

tetsujin1979

02/02/2011, 4:54 PM

Hunt definitely has a calf problem. and won't be playing tonight

<EDIT>

Celtic playing Rangers in the cup on Sunday, Birmingham playing West Ham
probably the reasons for the demotion of Fahey and Stokes.

Keane needs the game time, I guess?

SkStu

02/02/2011, 5:04 PM

Fahey instead of Green (FFS!) and Ward in as a defender and i would be realtively happy with that squad, truth be told. Performance is still everything however.

Manager P W D L %W %D %L
Staunton 17 6 6 5 35.29 35.29 29.41
Trapattoni 28 10 11 7 35.71 39.29 25.00

tetsujin1979

02/02/2011, 5:29 PM

Foley is due back tonight against Bolton, but he's missed the last 5 games in a row with an ankle problem. Probably best not to risk aggravating it.

rebelmusic

02/02/2011, 6:54 PM

11 i'd hope for

Given
O'Shea Dunne Sledge Clark
Coleman McCarthy Wilson/Whelan Duff
Keane Long

11 we'll get

Given
O'Shea Dunne Sledge Clark
Lawrence Green Whelan Duff
Keane Long/Doyle

Only thing that will annoy me is Green really.

One thing to note though. This squad has the least wingers of any trap squad. So maybe he's planning a different approach?

Stuttgart88

02/02/2011, 9:56 PM

I'd say it's more like that McGeady is in his winter break and Hunt is injured.

TrapAPony

02/02/2011, 10:07 PM

McShane, Keogh & Kilbane finally omitted. Green will hopefully be next. Andrews, McGeady, S.Hunt, Meyler, Cunningham & Foley yet to come back. Things looking up from a squad perspective at last.

paul_oshea

02/02/2011, 10:17 PM

Maybe with the wingers not there he has to give coleman a chance on the wing.

Anyway where are all those pessimists now....on reflection it might have been a bit premature :p :D

But seriously, i hope he just plays mccarthy/clark/coleman and in the positions we would expect to see them.

Is kilbane playing on the Sunday?

tetsujin1979

02/02/2011, 10:33 PM

Is kilbane playing on the Sunday?
no, Huddersfield are playing the same night as the Wales game. Might not have been released?

paul_oshea

02/02/2011, 10:37 PM

Surely trap knew that when he announced the squad though?

SwanVsDalton

02/02/2011, 11:21 PM

There's always a lot of hauranging about national squads and clubs. I think generally national managers pick who they want and deal with difficulties when and if they arrive. Trappatoni wouldn't be alone if that's his method.

Charlie Darwin

03/02/2011, 2:12 AM

no, Huddersfield are playing the same night as the Wales game. Might not have been released?
No, it's an official international day so the club would have to release him. It's only the Premier League and Championship that suspend play for internationals usually, which is why Huddersfield play the same day. I think Trap's just rightly figured he'll be getting a game anyway so why not give Clark or whoever else a shot.

TrapAPony

03/02/2011, 5:16 AM

no, Huddersfield are playing the same night as the Wales game. Might not have been released?

It's only a Johnstone's Paint Trophy 2nd leg in which Huddersfield are 4-0 down to Carlisle from the first leg.

ifk101

03/02/2011, 7:06 AM

Odd that Trapattoni chose to drop Keith Fahey. Looking at his midfield selection, it looks like he has brought in McCarthy as cover from Lawrence in the absence of McGeady, and Treacy is the cover for Duff in the absence of Hunt.

Fahey is now either fourth choice for left midfield, or fifth choice for one of the central roles depending on which position Trapattoni see Fahey as best suited.

ArdeeBhoy

03/02/2011, 1:35 PM

At this stage have given up wondering how Trap's mind works.
He's probably going to see out the campaign, so we'll just have to leave it in his less than flexible hands.

Shame how it all seems to be panning out though.

EalingGreen

03/02/2011, 2:22 PM

No, it's an official international day so the club would have to release him. It's only the Premier League and Championship that suspend play for internationals usually, which is why Huddersfield play the same day.Dunno if it applies to JPT* games, but for League games, clubs in League One or League Two are permitted to reschedule games should two(?) players get called up for international duty.

* - Even if Huddersfield had other possible international call-ups besides KK, I'd still imagine they'd go ahead with the Carlisle game as scheduled, since they're v.unlikely to go through and a Saturday game would be preferable to the manager and fans than a midweek re-arrangement (i.e. end-of-season fixture congestion could jeopardise Hudderfield's play-off hopes)

shakermaker1982

03/02/2011, 2:40 PM

How come Lee Camp hasn't been called up EG? Is he still on board? He's a good keeper.

DeLorean

03/02/2011, 2:52 PM

He's an excellent keeper alright. Hard to believe he's still only 26, seems like he's been around forever. I'd happily take him for the Republic.

EalingGreen

03/02/2011, 2:57 PM

How come Lee Camp hasn't been called up EG? Is he still on board? He's a good keeper.We're very keen and he's still keen*, but a backlog at FIFA is delaying his registration, in the same way as eg Shane Duffy had to wait.

* - At least now it's clear England/Capello don't want him!

DeLorean

03/02/2011, 2:58 PM

We'll steal him yet!

ArdeeBhoy

03/02/2011, 3:17 PM

Well, as said on the Liam Boyce thread amongst others, LB, LC & Adam Barton are all up for grabs. Trap may notice in his lifetime??

Despite the CAS ruling, you can't blame the North for capping them in a competitive game to tie them down.
Westwood is as good as Camp or vice versa.

Not seen Barton or Boyce play though. Celtic were linked with Boyce but even they can't go on signing every promising Catholic from the North....

EalingGreen

03/02/2011, 3:21 PM

We'll steal him yet!Don't think he qualifies.

As I understand it, someone is automatically eligible from birth for Irish citizenship law if he, or a parent, was born in Ireland (either part). And it is this automatic entitlement which makes a player eligible to represent ROI, under FIFA's Article 15.

Whereas if someone only has a Grandparent born in Ireland (either part), then he may apply for Irish citizenship and will normally be granted it - especially if he's a decent footballer! - but it is not automatic. Therefore such players do not qualify for ROI under Article 15.

Instead, they have to rely on Article 18 (refers to someone switching Nationality), which as well as requiring the applicant to hold the relevant citizenship, also requires that he either have a (biological) parent/grandfather born within the jurisdiction of the Association in question, or have resided there for a minimum period.

Camp's connection to Ireland is, I believe, a Belfast-born grandfather.

Stuttgart88

03/02/2011, 3:26 PM

Surely trap knew that when he announced the squad though?Trap has his failings but I won't be critical of him for not knowing that Huddersfield have a second leg of the JPT to play that night!

EalingGreen

03/02/2011, 3:38 PM

Well, as said on the Liam Boyce thread amongst others, LB, LC & Adam Barton are all up for grabs. Trap may notice in his lifetime??Re Boyce, his newspaper comments indicate he's happy enough to play for us.
Re. Barton, if he doesn't make it for England, then he'll consider NI - if we still want him by then. Either way, there is no indication he has ever been interested in playing for ROI.
Re Camp, he doesn't qualify (see my previous post).

Despite the CAS ruling, you can't blame the North for capping them in a competitive game to tie them down.
I'm not sure that the Nations Cup meets FIFA's definition of a "competitive" tournament for elibility purposes. And even if it should, I'm uncertain about the ethics or practicality of such a ruse.

Westwood is as good as Camp or vice versa.No idea, but in any case, I've no more interest in Westwood than I have in any other foreign keeper.

Camp will do for me, thank you very much.

Not seen Barton or Boyce play though. Celtic were linked with Boyce but even they can't go on signing every promising Catholic from the North....Hmmm. I somehow imagine that Celtic would not thank you for ascribing a sectarian element to their recruitment policies*.

* - On the playing side, at least...

paul_oshea

03/02/2011, 4:20 PM

Trap has his failings but I won't be critical of him for not knowing that Huddersfield have a second leg of the JPT to play that night!

Ya that was a leading question stutts, well done. I mean if he didn't i was suggesting that it was a failing(which was mentioned before about not keeping up to date/watching enough players etc) but that is a mickey mouse thing so we would give leeway on this one.