Eligibility proposal

[EalingGreen]

Why the quotes around "Ireland"? Are you saying I was incorrect to use the name of the state? And I deliberately used the term "legally" meaning if NI decided to pick a player born in England and with no connection to NI, there is nothing FIFA can do to stop it

Re your first point, I used " " merely because it was a quotation, exactly as with "anywhere in Britain". But I'm quite happy to excise those quotation marks, if you wish.

As for you second point, the suggested compromise from FIFA makes no reference to players born in England, or anywhere else outwith Ireland. Instead, it specifically refers only to players born in Ireland.

In fact, by my interpretation of the Rules - chiefly that damned Annex - we would be barred by FIFA from picking a player born in England with no connection to NI (or a Maik Taylor, for that matter).

Moreover, the four Home Associations have a written agreement which prevents any of them acting in such a way. This Agreement is recognised by FIFA, who would almost certainly not intervene, should any individual player challenge it.

(In fact, there was a very recent case of a young English-born lad whose family had moved him to Scotland at a young age. He plays for a Scottish club and wanted to declare for Scotland. Despite his having played for Scotland Schools, the English FA objected to his representing Scotland at any higher level, on the basis that the "Home" Agreement states that birthplace overrides all other considerations in case of dispute over eligibility between the four. The SFA accepted this.)

[charliesboots]

Is naturalisation ruled out altogether in this wonderful FIFA annex on eligibility?

BTW why so much talk of Maik Taylor what about the great Trevor Wood?

[EalingGreen]

Because the point of the rule was not to stop players with legitimate claims to dual nationality from representing their country of choice. It was not intended to effect existing arrangements.

The intention of the rule was to stop people being paid to change nationality. You obviously know the situation regarding Irish/British citizens so you can quit playing the dumb innocent here

I'm not playing the dumb innocent. I have consistently posted that I can see the basis for the FAI's case. However, I can also see the basis for the IFA's case. I had hoped that the latter would prevail. I still hope that the latter may somehow prevail, since the compromise [sic] suggested by FIFA has not actually rejected the IFA's submission (nor accepted the FAI's).

So whilst I accept that it may look bad for the IFA should they reject the compromise, thereby possibly colouring FIFA's view of them, I don't think this issue is settled yet.

[ifk101]

BTW why so much talk of Maik Taylor what about the great Trevor Wood?

Trevor Wood was born in the Channel Islands so could "chose to play" for any of the "Home Nations" which includes "Northern Ireland" (if my understanding is "correct").

[charliesboots]

It isn't settled yet - thread title should be amended

[Dodge]

Trevor Wood was born in the Channel Islands so could "chose to play" for any of the "Home Nations" which includes "Northern Ireland" (if my understanding is "correct").

Yep, as in the situation with any naturalised Britons.

[charliesboots]

Trevor Wood was born in the Channel Islands so could "chose to play" for any of the "Home Nations" which includes "Northern Ireland" (if my understanding is "correct").

Yeah I know that and as with Maik Taylor he was eligible at the time. Would the IFA pick a similar player now though as some on here seem to think they wouldn't/couldn't pick Maik Taylor Taylor if he only declared now.

It's a tangent anyway to the main issue which relates to people born on the island.

[geysir]

It isn't settled yet - thread title should be amended
No it's not settled in the minds of the IFA. That unsettlement is based on a faulty reading of the FIFA rules of eligibility
Whereas FIFA have consistantly stuck with the eligibility rules of article 15.

[lopez]

...congratulations on getting one over on the people you wish to be "united" with.Is this your trump card? That if we didn't allow players who want to represent their country, that the unionist population would consider accepting an 'all - Ireland' team with us? LOL!

Just as some in NI seem to have "jumped the gun" in believing the leaks that the IFA's case...
Primarily you.

...On which point, however well-intentioned FIFA may be in making this offer, it cannot be acceptable to the IFA, either in principle - we are not interested in selecting players from the ROI...
You might end up with a team that has nobody singing GSTQ. Then the IFA would definitely have to pull their finger out.

...I don't know whether FIFA have been "got at" by somebody...
Here we go!:rolleyes:

In fact, there was a very recent case of a young English-born lad whose family had moved him to Scotland at a young age. He plays for a Scottish club and wanted to declare for Scotland. Despite his having played for Scotland Schools, the English FA objected to his representing Scotland at any higher level, on the basis that the "Home" Agreement states that birthplace overrides all other considerations in case of dispute over eligibility between the four. The SFA accepted this.As you continually say if somone else brings in another associaion, what have they got to do with this subect?

[WembleyGreen]

What the 4 British associations agree amongst themselves about birthright etc is neither here nor there! The issue here is about whether players born in NI have the right to play for their country, the country THEY see as their country and not the IFA or FAI or even FIFA. Under the terms of the GFA being born in NI gives them the right to choose Irish citizenship and all the rights that go with that. Playing for your country is something any young lad would want to do and he can, he can play for NI if he feels that's his country or the RoI if he chooses that option that's the reality of it and that is what FIFA (it seems to me anyway) seem to be saying. I can understand the IFA's, EG and NB's frustration with this but that's the way it is and FIFA are not going to get bogged down in what is a uniquely Irish/British anomaly. The easiest option is to let the player make the choice and that's a reasonable solution, some players will choose with their heart others with their head/ambition, luck of the draw yes, but the right to choose must be respected no matter how much we don't like it or agree with it. You can't force people to play for you and anyway would any supporter like to see players playing for their country only because they have to on a legal technicality?

[EalingGreen]

Is naturalisation ruled out altogether in this wonderful FIFA annex on eligibility?

BTW why so much talk of Maik Taylor what about the great Trevor Wood?

Re your first point, naturalisation is not specifically allowed on its own as a basis for eligibility, but will effectively be so in 90%+ of cases. That is because in order to acquire naturalisation (and accompanying Passport), most countries also require a period of residence in excess of the two years specified by FIFA. Therefore, that residency would also satisfy the Annex.

Trevor Wood is a different case from Maik Taylor, since Taylor had a connection with at least two countries for whom he might alternatively have played (W.Germany by birth and England by ancestry). Woods was born in the Channel Isles, which has no international football team. In such rare cases, FIFA will not prevent someone entirely from the chance to play international football, so they said he could play for one of the Home countries, on the basis of his UK Passport. And since his parents and grandparents had no connection with any of Eng/Scot/Wales/NI, he was as free to choose one as the others. He chose NI, though his fellow Channel Islanders, Le Saux and Le Tissier, chose England. (I'm sure you can guess why they made their respective choices...;))

[shaneker]

The ourweecountry lot have jumped the gun on us, they already have links to post messages to FIFA regarding their 'displeasure' with the proposal. Fair play to them, they don't hang around!

I see no reason for us to try and voice our opinions on the proposal, I have already sent a message saying I hope it is implemented and thanked them for their recognition of a unique situation here, and it can do no harm for others to do something similar. It only takes a minute.

http://www.fifa.com/contact/form.html I sent a message entitled 'FAI/IFA Eligibility Issue' under general enquiries. Back me up!

EDIT - Christ they move fast! Already their own thread 'Contact FIFA'. I really don't like the idea of FIFA getting contacted with one-way traffic against their proposal - if they're trying to sit on the fence, that can only do us harm. However I don't want to start the thread if its just going to be deleted and told to come back in here. Mods, whats the verdict?

[co. down green]

Simple (genuine) questions:

Are the FAI and IFA closer, or further apart, as a result of this decision?

How does that bode for good relations between the respective Associations?

The IFA's approaches to a number of 'northern born' Irish international players in the last month is hardly going to help relations.

But not to worry,the IFA were told to 'clear off' by the Irish lads.:D

[EalingGreen]

Primarily you.


You accuse me (above) of having "jumped the gun" in assuming the decision would go the IFA's way. Not so. This is what I posted in the relevant thread on 31st October:
"I have kept out of this thread recently (cheers all round, no doubt!), since I have said my piece and am content to wait for FIFA's final determination, due imminently.

If the decision goes against the IFA, then I, for one, shall accept it and get on with supporting NI"



You might end up with a team that has nobody singing GSTQ. Then the IFA would definitely have to pull their finger out.


It is not, and never has been, compulsory for the players to sing GSTQ. I doubt if some of them even know the words. I have frequently been at NI games where a majority of the players didn't sing it. I don't ever sing it, myself, either. As for the IFA, I have long advocated that they should replace GSTQ. This has nothing really to do with politics, mind, more a simple desire to be represented by a distinctively Northern Irish tune.



Here we go!:rolleyes:
As you continually say if somone else brings in another associaion, what have they got to do with this subect?

In response to another poster who wondered whether a consequence of this suggestion by FIFA might not be that NI could now pick players from England, Scotland or Wales (or vice versa), I pointed out that this was not so, primarily due to a written Agreement preventing it, which is lodged with FIFA. I cited the case of the young English-born lad as a topical example to illustrate my point.

Keep trying, old boy

[liaml]

To those extending their sympathy to the IFA - catch a grip. I have absolutely no sympathy with the IFA or those NI fans that wished to force Irish citizens to play for a British team.

A self respecting country would only want players that _wanted_ to play for it.

[RogerMilla]

EDIT - Christ they move fast! Already their own thread 'Contact FIFA'. I really don't like the idea of FIFA getting contacted with one-way traffic against their proposal - if they're trying to sit on the fence, that can only do us harm. However I don't want to start the thread if its just going to be deleted and told to come back in here. Mods, whats the verdict?

moon , howling , the , dogs, at.

[shaneker]

You're probably right. Still, can hardly hurt, can it?

[paul_oshea]

(In fact, there was a very recent case of a young English-born lad whose family had moved him to Scotland at a young age. He plays for a Scottish club and wanted to declare for Scotland. Despite his having played for Scotland Schools, the English FA objected to his representing Scotland at any higher level, on the basis that the "Home" Agreement states that birthplace overrides all other considerations in case of dispute over eligibility between the four. The SFA accepted this.)


If thats the case I read on the paper, it was rugby not soccer, and he only attended private school there.

[Not Brazil]

I honestly don't. What has he to be disappointed for? Not Brazil has always said he only wants players that really want to play for Northern Ireland.

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance but I haven't a clue what you're talking about NB... How will it increase polarisation and divide both communities?

Absolutely corect Eirebhoy - only interested in players who want to play for Northern Ireland.

It polarises and divides by potentially creating a "usuns to the right, themuns to the left" environment.

You don't have to read too deeply into the message boards today to see that.

[Absinthe]

As for Taylor, our selection of him within the Rules as they stood then was no more unacceptable or unethical than e.g. the FAI selecting players under the "Granny Rule" who couldn't previously have identified Ireland on a map of Ireland!


:eek: Thats unfair. Jason McAteer couldnt have found England on a map either. :D

[Drumcondra 69er]

If it's my use of the "Ulsterman" tag you refer to, I was only having a laugh with (my fellow Ulsterman) Cavanman - hence the wee wink.

As for Taylor, our selection of him within the Rules as they stood then was no more unacceptable or unethical than e.g. the FAI selecting players under the "Granny Rule" who couldn't previously have identified Ireland on a map of Ireland!

However, following the Qatari/Brazilian affair, FIFA changed its Rules with regard to eligibility, so that the IFA considered that players otherwise eligible for NI were now being selected by another Association (FAI), in contravention of the new Rules. Therefore, they objected.




Thought that was it re the 'Ulsterma' quip alright. ;)

Can't agree with the Taylor situation being the same as the granny rule though, at least those players selected via the granny rule had some sort of blood tie to teh country, Taylor had no such tie and was simply eligible due to being a UK citizen born abroad.

Didn't realise that rule specific to the UK had been superceeded by the Qatar ruling.

[paul_oshea]

moon , howling , the , dogs, at.


Lad, power in numbers. always has been always will be.....as the whole arguement you and others posed, the human right of anybody to decide....

[Maroon 7]

For those from NI who wanted the Annex criteria applied and are now bitter and dissapointed.
The IFA have a poor understanding of the Fifa Statutes of eligibility and what the Annex criteria of eligibilty was about.
Fifa have not deviated one bit from Article 15. The Annex criteria do not apply.

To start with, the IFA arguement had no foundation. I said before that Howard Wells was leading them up a garden path and that it was actually Well's responsibilty to inform the NI fans of how FIFA statutes are applied. Instead we had a very public, parish pump communal politicising, raising the emotions of NI supporters.
If there is any residue of bitterness left after this affair, I can only hold the IFA responsible for that.
The FAI have approached this whole issue appropriatly while the IFA employees were making headlines the FAI kept their heads down.
The FAI could have raised public emotions about the aspirations of young nationals born in the North, they didn't.

For once the FAI seem to have played bllinder on this one. They stayed relatively quiet throughout only releasing statements when required. Recognising that it was a sensitive issue. As opposed to the IFA, Howard Wells and their friends in the media who were shooting their mouths off at every available oppertunity.

[paul_oshea]

For once the FAI seem to have played bllinder on this one. They stayed relatively quiet throughout only releasing statements when required. Recognising that it was a sensitive issue. As opposed to the IFA, Howard Wells and their friends in the media who were shooting their mouths off at every available oppertunity.


Thats not an entirely new thing up there now is it ;) empty vessels and all that....

[EalingGreen]

If thats the case I read on the paper, it was rugby not soccer, and he only attended private school there.

You must be referring to a different case. I meant Andrew Driver, of Hearts. I can't find the exact reference, but here is an extract from a Scottish Newspaper article:

"Awardee Driver misses Scots caps
Hearts winger Andrew Driver picked up the SPL young player of the month award [for September] but admitted that he has no chance of another accolade - a Scotland cap.

The 19-year-old was born in England and must look there for further honours.

"I moved here when I was 11, so I've grown up in Scotland," said Driver, who scored in victories over Hearts and St Mirren during September.

"I even scored for the schoolboy side against England. I was eligible because I was at school here."

Driver had considered challenging the ruling but has admitted defeat.

"The British countries have an agreement where you're only allowed to play for a country if you've got blood relatives, so I've no chance," he told the Sunday Mail as he picked up his Clydesdale Bank award.

Oldham-born Driver praised the Hearts youth system, from which he graduated to the first team.

"Hearts have brought through a lot of players recently," he told the club website"

[paul_oshea]

You must be referring to a different case. I meant Andrew Driver, of Hearts. I can't find the exact reference, but here is an extract from a Scottish Newspaper article:

"Awardee Driver misses Scots caps
Hearts winger Andrew Driver picked up the SPL young player of the month award [for September] but admitted that he has no chance of another accolade - a Scotland cap.

The 19-year-old was born in England and must look there for further honours.

"I moved here when I was 11, so I've grown up in Scotland," said Driver, who scored in victories over Hearts and St Mirren during September.

"I even scored for the schoolboy side against England. I was eligible because I was at school here."

Driver had considered challenging the ruling but has admitted defeat.

"The British countries have an agreement where you're only allowed to play for a country if you've got blood relatives, so I've no chance," he told the Sunday Mail as he picked up his Clydesdale Bank award.

Oldham-born Driver praised the Hearts youth system, from which he graduated to the first team.

"Hearts have brought through a lot of players recently," he told the club website"


Nah, thats not the one EG.

[lopez]

Absolutely corect Eirebhoy - only interested in players who want to play for Northern Ireland...If you were only interested in those that want to play for you, FIFA's decision means nothing. In fact it might increase the players that want to play for you. This statement of yours is pathetic. 'I'm not interested in players who don't want to play for NI. I just don't want them playing for anyone else if they're not interested in NI.' Pretty sad IMO.

[liaml]

It polarises and divides by potentially creating a "usuns to the right, themuns to the left" environment.

You don't have to read too deeply into the message boards today to see that.

It's supposed to be about Mutual respect actually. You know, you've got an Irish passport - I've got a British, you vote for one party - I vote for another. You come from one tradition, I come for a different one. I don't see why respecting a players decision to play for the country he's been a citizen of since birth should be any more polarising that any of the above.

It would have polarised and divided the North further still to force Nationalists to play for a team they did not identify with and wanted no part in.

[EalingGreen]

Can't agree with the Taylor situation being the same as the granny rule though, at least those players selected via the granny rule had some sort of blood tie to teh country, Taylor had no such tie and was simply eligible due to being a UK citizen born abroad.

Didn't realise that rule specific to the UK had been superceeded by the Qatar ruling.

Taylor's case is not identical to the "granny" players; however, i was merely making the point that he was eligible for NI under the Rules which existed then, exactly as the "granny" players were entirely eligible for the ROI, even though some of them had no more affinity with their "new" country than Taylor had.

And by now seeking that FIFA's Rules be applied correctly (as they see it), post Annex, the IFA is being entirely consistent with its previous practice of applying the Rules correctly in order to select Taylor.

However, if another Taylor came along, we would not select him (though God knows, we could do with a replacement for him, soon)

[Lionel Ritchie]

"The British countries have an agreement where you're only allowed to play for a country if you've got blood relatives, so I've no chance," he told the Sunday Mail as he picked up his Clydesdale Bank award.

Oldham-born Driver praised the Hearts youth system, from which he graduated to the first team.

"Hearts have brought through a lot of players recently," he told the club website"

Absolute madness. If that lad came from Indo-China or Antartica he might have a Scotland cap by now.

[lopez]

You accuse me (above) of ...Just to remind you of some of the tosh you've posted on here (we'll leave Madeline McCann out of this BTW) is the smug assertion that the IFA had this in the bag. Then there was the claim that FIFA don't tolerate 'political influence', suggesting that the Irish government could not raise the case against FIFA without fear of the FAI being thrown out of all their competitions. Now, the bucky seems to have kicked in again, and you are suggesting that the all powerful Ma-FIFA were knobbled. Who by? The FAI? The Irish government? Uncle Gerry and Uncle Martin ringing up and saying 'we know where all you lot live'?

You are a class act EG, there's no doubting that. :D

[gspain]

Just to clarify FIFA would allow Andrew Driver to play for Scotland. However he is not eligible under a private arrangement between the 4 UK football nations which imposes private rules on who can play given that they share a common nationality.

[charliesboots]

Abolute madness. If that lad came from Indo-China or Antartica he might have a Scotland cap by now.

Exactly that's why I asked about naturalisation earlier. If the lad has lived in Scotland for 8/9 years then surely he should be entitled to play for them.

edit - if above post by gspain is correct then surely the agreement between the four associations should be amended to rectify the situation.

[NeilMcD]

Exactly that's why I asked about naturalisation earlier. If the lad has lived in Scotland for 8/9 years then surely he should be entitled to play for them.

edit - if above post by gspain is correct then surely the agreement between the four associations should be amended to rectify the situation.

If they dont have the agreement well then the whole point of having a four different teams witll go out of existance and they would be logically forced into having a UK team.

[charliesboots]

If they dont have the agreement well then the whole point of having a four different teams witll go out of existance and they would be logically forced into having a UK team.

Surely they could just amend the agreement to allow for people to be naturalised as per FIFA regulations for other countries (or more stringent if they wish).

I mean if you're born in England with English heritage but move to Scotland when you're a few months old, live there you're whole life, consider yourself Scottish and want to play for Scotland, you should be entitled to.

[Absinthe]

If they dont have the agreement well then the whole point of having a four different teams witll go out of existance and they would be logically forced into having a UK team.

Not arguing with you, but by that logic why would we have 2 Irish teams picking from the same territory.

This suggestion by FIFA, means that in effect we could have 2 Idenitical teams, in terms of eligibility.

It would be possible for example, within FIFA's rules for the RoI to field a team of U21 Dubliners, in a friendly, and then for NI to call them all up and use them in a Senior International?

Bravo, chaps, Bravo.

For the record, I would rather that, you could pick our players and we couldnt pick yours. Fair, No. But at least it would differentiate between the two teams.

As was said before on this thread we might as well rename the Teams Ireland A, and Ireland B, if this ruling goes ahead.

(Of course, you would be Ireland B, as we were originally called Ireland, and are the original association. :p Tough break, but there you go) :D

[Drumcondra 69er]

Surely they could just amend the agreement to allow for people to be naturalised as per FIFA regulations for other countries (or more stringent if they wish).

I mean if you're born in England with English heritage but move to Scotland when you're a few months old, live there you're whole life, consider yourself Scottish and want to play for Scotland, you should be entitled to.

Couldn't really work though, the likes of Chris Sutton and Alan Thomspon would have become eligible for Scotland after playing for Celtic for two years, that's what the respective associations want to avoid.

[charliesboots]

Couldn't really work though, the likes of Chris Sutton and Alan Thomspon would have become eligible for Scotland after playing for Celtic for two years, that's what the respective associations want to avoid.

They wouldn't if they were over 21 when deciding as per the FIFA rules (I think)

[Dodge]

Couldn't really work though, the likes of Chris Sutton and Alan Thomspon would have become eligible for Scotland after playing for Celtic for two years, that's what the respective associations want to avoid.

They can avoid it by making people choose their nationality by 18. Would also stop the Clinto Morrisons of this world...

[Absinthe]

They can avoid it by making people choose their nationality by 18. Would also stop the Clinto Morrisons of this world...

They already have this, and the age is set at 21.



3. If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if the Player is eligible to play for several Association teams due to his nationality, the following exceptions apply:
(i) Up to his 21st birthday, a player may only once request changing the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches. A Player may exercise this right to change Associations only if he has not played at “A” international level for his current Association and if, at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition of any other category, he already had such nationalities. Changing Associations is not permitted during the preliminary competition of a FIFA competition, continental championship or Olympic Tournaments if a player has already been fielded in a match of one of these competitions.


As said in a previous post, because of this rule FIFA would need to make it clear what someone born in Northern Ireland's 'default' team is.

[eirebhoy]

Not arguing with you, but by that logic why would we have 2 Irish teams picking from the same territory.

This suggestion by FIFA, means that in effect we could have 2 Idenitical teams, in terms of eligibility.

It would be possible for example, within FIFA's rules for the RoI to field a team of U21 Dubliners, in a friendly, and then for NI to call them all up and use them in a Senior International?

Bravo, chaps, Bravo.

As I said, we'll have to rely on patriotism. Just like the old days.

[EalingGreen]

Just to remind you of some of the tosh you've posted on here (we'll leave Madeline McCann out of this BTW) is the smug assertion that the IFA had this in the bag. Then there was the claim that FIFA don't tolerate 'political influence', suggesting that the Irish government could not raise the case against FIFA without fear of the FAI being thrown out of all their competitions. Now, the bucky seems to have kicked in again, and you are suggesting that the all powerful Ma-FIFA were knobbled. Who by? The FAI? The Irish government? Uncle Gerry and Uncle Martin ringing up and saying 'we know where all you lot live'?

You are a class act EG, there's no doubting that. :D

I've already quoted my most recent post (31/10) where I openly acknowledged the possibility that FIFA might decide in favour of the FAI. Find me one post where I ever claimed that the IFA had this "in the bag".

As for "political interference", there has been no such interference that I'm aware of, or have alleged, in the FAI's presentation of their case (nor of the internal running of the FAI, for that matter).

I have consistently argued that should FIFA make a determination - and they haven't yet, btw - any attempt by politicians to subvert, thwart or otherwise interfere with it would not be tolerated by FIFA.

Nothing which has occurred in the last 48 hours has changed that.

As for my "got at" reference, maybe I should have used the less perjorative term "lobbied". Whichever, even John Delaney gave no indication that he knew or guessed FIFA might suggest the latest compromise, when he spoke to RTE on his return from Zurich on Monday 29/10. Since he was rushing back to sack poor Stan the following day, he was in sore need of some good news to announce, yet the best he could come up with was that at least FIFA weren't going to make their determination retrospective i.e. Gibson was OK.

Therefore, someone or something in the intervening week presumably persuaded/caused/lobbied etc someone in FIFA to suggest this third way (compromise), as a means of allowing FIFA to avoid having to come off the fence.

[EalingGreen]

Absolute madness. If that lad came from Indo-China or Antartica he might have a Scotland cap by now.

Not really, LR. These things work both ways i.e. had Andrew Driver been born in Scotland but brought up in England, the SFA could have objected to his representing England.

Tbh, this is merely an agreement which serves to protect the three smaller nations, since many talented young footballers from NI/Scot/Wales go to English clubs when they are 16 (even earlier?). Assuming they don't get tied to their country of birth in the meantime, within two years they would be eligible under FIFA Rules to play for England. And considering the (usually) greater chance of qualifying which England offers, plus the enormous financial earning potential offered by England over the others, plus persuasion by Agents (even club managers), at least some might be tempted.

And in any case, it is not inevitable that the Association of the player's birthplace will object. The example of Driver is one where the lad appears "a cut above" i.e. both countries want him. However, should the lad not likely be good enough to represent England, the FA can always waive their right to tie him to them.

As for the comparison with youngster from e.g. India or China who moved to live in England, the FA doesn't give a stuff about his home Association; if he wants to play for England and he's good enough, they'll have him. John "My Jamaican Guy" Barnes, anyone?

[RogerMilla]

Therefore, someone or something in the intervening week presumably persuaded/caused/lobbied etc someone in FIFA to suggest this third way (compromise), as a means of allowing FIFA to avoid having to come off the fence.

or FIFA came up with it themselves ?? Dont forget that the Irish team could conceivably lose players to Northern Ireland under this ruling. I doubt the FAI lobbied for this particular result.

[EalingGreen]

or FIFA came up with it themselves ?? Dont forget that the Irish team could conceivably lose players to Northern Ireland under this ruling. I doubt the FAI lobbied for this particular result.

It's entirely possible, I suppose, that the legal/technical "experts" heard the case presented by each Association, came to the preliminary conclusion that the Rules favoured the IFA (which both Associations picked up on), so prepared a Paper for the relevant Committee to authorise.

At which point, in order to avoid having to find in favour of one Association over another if at all possible, the Committee sent it back with an instruction to try to find a suitable compromise. At which point, somebody or other with no understanding of the reality on the ground, hazarded that if the FAI were allowed to pick players from NI, might not the IFA be satisfied by being allowed to pick players from the ROI?

At face value, this might not have appeared unreasonable, since the IFA would have had no cause originally to have stated why picking ROI-born players was not something which they would want to do, nor something that would ever benefit them more than once in a blue moon.

And, as you say, the FAI presumably didn't mention it, either.

Strange, I must say.

Anyhow, that is why I used the term "got at" - it might just as easy have been someone within FIFA, even with the best of intentions (however misguided).

[RogerMilla]

Anyhow, that is why I used the term "got at" - it might just as easy have been someone within FIFA, even with the best of intentions (however misguided).

"got at" smacks of suspicions of underhandedness and also sour grapes to be honest. Anyway I expect the IFA to appeal this decision. This is far from settled.

[geysir]

It's entirely possible, I suppose, that the legal/technical "experts" heard the case presented by each Association, came to the preliminary conclusion that the Rules favoured the IFA (which both Associations picked up on), so prepared a Paper for the relevant Committee to authorise.

At which point, in order to avoid having to find in favour of one Association over another if at all possible, the Committee sent it back with an instruction to try to find a suitable compromise. At which point, somebody or other with no understanding of the reality on the ground, hazarded that if the FAI were allowed to pick players from NI, might not the IFA be satisfied by being allowed to pick players from the ROI?

At face value, this might not have appeared unreasonable, since the IFA would have had no cause originally to have stated why picking ROI-born players was not something which they would want to do, nor something that would ever benefit them more than once in a blue moon.

And, as you say, the FAI presumably didn't mention it, either.

Strange, I must say.

Anyhow, that is why I used the term "got at" - it might just as easy have been someone within FIFA, even with the best of intentions (however misguided).
More likely that Howard Wells is a díckhead and FIFA are being consistant in interpretation and application, that Howard still demonstrates his inability to grasp FIFA statutes, that Howard has delusions that he knows better than FIFA legal dept.
Just as it´s extremly unlikely that when using the term "got at" you had that "someone within FIFA, even with the best of intentions" in mind.

[Juanace]

I've read the psts so far on the topic and my view is clear.

The status quo should remain untouched, in my opinion it does not need changing. We all know Northern Ireland has a vast community who feel they are Irish not British or even Northern Irish. This right is backed up by the Good Friday agreement. My Da's from Belfast. Asking him to turn out in front of the British national Anthem at Windsor (if he was gud enough!) is a no brainer, though i understand the anthem situation for Rugby isnt perfrect for Ulster Unionists!

I'm happy enough to go along with FIFA's ruling as at least it keeps the status quo the same.

In fairness Ealing Green, you are clearly a very intelligent debater! Your points are clear and backed up. I just disagree from my side. People in the North should be allowed play for ROI (for all the obvious reasons) and people in the Republic shouldnt be allowed play for you're team (though ill accept the comprimise as it will change nothing on the ground). Thats just how I feel despite your excellent arguments.

[backstothewall]

As for my "got at" reference, maybe I should have used the less perjorative term "lobbied".

It would seem clear this happened. Dermot Ahern made a statement to the press, so i would assume the Irish Foreign office was working behind the scenes. Given that the 2 governments are rarely parted on policy towards the north i would say there was a fairly high chance the British Foreign Office was doing similar.

As Gibson is from Derry, John Hume may well have made a phone call to Sepp Blater, and introduced himself as "Nobel peace prize winner John Hume".

The IFA were arguing an unclear FIFA regulation (which contradicts others) should take precedence over the GFA, which is generally now held as one one the worlds most successful peace deals ever.

They were offered no serious political backing by Unionist politicians on this one. It was naive in the extreme of the IFA to think there would ever be any other result. To think that FIFA would baulk at national governments lobbying them because of what happened in Greece was equally naive. In Greece the government effectively took over the FA. This was very different.

The IFA need to take a long look at the damage they have done themselves in the eyes of the nationalist community, which will be compounded if they succeed in getting DC out of the Irish Premier League. We are not stupid and simply insisting rules are applied to suit your political agenda is as obvious as some of the IFA's old techniques.

They have driven a(nother) wedge between themselves and nationalism. In future i would advise them to pick their battles a bit better

[paul_oshea]

The IFA need to take a long look at the damage they have done themselves in the eyes of the nationalist community, which will be compounded if they succeed in getting DC out of the Irish Premier League.

Since when did they do this? By the way the Irish Premier League sounds like an ALL-IRELAND league too ;) Or a concoction of two anyhow :)