Eligibility proposal [Archive] - Page 20

Absinthe

20/12/2007, 10:33 AM

a) In case you've been away, he is eligible through an Irish passport. Now Absinthe, this point was cleared up ages ago. Whatever further reasons he or anyone else has for choosing between two different teams, I'd suggest you write them a letter at their club.

b) 'British soil in Germany': I like that one. :rolleyes:

c) You get offended very easily, I see.

a) I asked you why you think they should be eligible, I am well aware of the rules.

b) He was born on a British Army Barracks called Osnabruk (if memory serves me correctly). My understanding of this, is that it carries the same status as an Embassy, and is therefore regarded as British soil.
Feel free to come back with facts to the contrary?

c) The same poster admitted in his response that he wouldnt support the Ireland Rugby team it sang GSTQ. How is this any different to a Northern Irish person not supporting the Ireland Rugby Team for singing the Soldiers Song?

I found his myopic statement offensive enough to reply to it, even though it is taking the topic somewhat off thread.

Finally, its all just a bit of craic, refers to this myopic view, whereby when someone states something, its just a bit of banter, but when its turned around the other way, its anything but. Nothing political in it whatsoever.

Absinthe

20/12/2007, 10:35 AM

Don't support us then! Set up your own team with your own anthems and your own easily offended players then! As long as any player from any part of Ireland (or their descendants) can continue playing for the current Irish team, good f*cking riddance to you.

Please start reading what Im posting, instead of what you think Im posting. I said people in Northern Ireland dont support the team, and also stated that I do.

So please feel free to get off your high horse anytime.

RogerMilla

20/12/2007, 10:45 AM

Then why should Northern Irish people "look at themselves" if they find it impossible to support a team for this reason?

Because the Ireland Rugby team is on a progressive course to becoming more inclusive as evidenced by the anthem and flags and in that spirit anyone who is a rugby fan on the island who finds it impossible to support them should give them another go. Perhaps one day they will have a home game in Belfast with an agreed anthem. ( I would not be backing GSTQ down at paddypower though).

RogerMilla

20/12/2007, 10:48 AM

c) The same poster admitted in his response that he wouldnt support the Ireland Rugby team it sang GSTQ. How is this any different to a Northern Irish person not supporting the Ireland Rugby Team for singing the Soldiers Song?
.

I didnt say that I said if it sang GSTQ it would no longer be the Irish rugby team.

paul_oshea

20/12/2007, 10:50 AM

i now know how ill fill those hours after dinner on christmas day......

Mr_Parker

20/12/2007, 10:53 AM

I think your coming round to our arguement nicely lopez. We are happy for the Grandmother rule to apply, the problem is with the rules set up the way they currently are, it is possible that:

a) Gibson* has never set foot in the Republic of Ireland
b) Gibsons parents have never set foot in the Republic of Ireland
c) Gibsons parents, parents have never set foot on the Republic of Ireland

So, if that was the case, why should he be eligible?

Because he wants to be?
Or , because someone in the IFA ****ed him off and he wants to prove a point?

*purely as a hypothetical example

Was this not previously cleared up here..?

:
To add to the confusion, it is my belief that having researched this matter thoroughly, they have no case in the Gibson matter.

Quite simply, he was a Republic of Ireland player before the rules were changed.

As he had not played in a competitive game at underage level for the North, he was perfectly entitled to make the change of allegiance when he moved to the Republic in October 2003.

On October 21 that year, in a small Austrian village called Br�hl, Gibson lined up for UEFA under-17 Championship qualifier alongside the likes of Darren Randolph, Darren O�Dea and Anthony Stokes.

So eight months before FIFA made their decree, Gibson was already a Republic of Ireland player. As far as I can see, that�s case closed and he will not be changing nations now.

http://www.metroeireann.com/index.ph...=602&Itemid=26

lopez

20/12/2007, 12:18 PM

a) I asked you why you think they should be eligible, I am well aware of the rules.
And I said because they hold Irish citizenship.

b) He was born on a British Army Barracks called Osnabruk (if memory serves me correctly). My understanding of this, is that it carries the same status as an Embassy, and is therefore regarded as British soil.
Feel free to come back with facts to the contrary?
Maik Taylor would not be eligible to German citizenship even if he was born outside the barracks and his parents were not soliders because at the time of his birth, Maik Taylor needed a German parent to gain it. (GR: Once again I am directing one of your compatriots to the term Jus Sanguinnis).

But the point is what connection does he have with the O6C? You want us to stop people playing for us who 'have never stepped foot' in the 26C (highly unlikely) but want to continue playing Maik Taylor and co because they qualify through a British passport.

c) The same poster admitted in his response that he wouldnt support the Ireland Rugby team it sang GSTQ. How is this any different to a Northern Irish person not supporting the Ireland Rugby Team for singing the Soldiers Song?
As he says, it is no longer an Irish team with that anthem. Neither is NI.

The Northern (unionist) rugby fan has the choice. Either put up with it or b*gger off. We have an inclusive rugby anthem now and rugby flag. EG doesn't want the Sash added to the SS as - in the usual mock offence that is common from ourweeminds - he's not an Orangeman. But he's happy - and you to - with a song about a German who has as much ancestral links to NI as that Maik Taylor. How about practicing what you preach and have the SS played before NI games. The IFA have miles to go to match the IRFU in its quest for inclusiveness with regards to the anthem - In fact, with the exception of Dublin, the SS has never been played at any of its games.

I found his myopic statement offensive enough to reply to it, even though it is taking the topic somewhat off thread.
Yeah, yeah, yeah! If you find us so offensive then f*ck off! Is that offensive enough?

Finally, its all just a bit of craic, refers to this myopic view, whereby when someone states something, its just a bit of banter, but when its turned around the other way, its anything but. Nothing political in it whatsoever.Heaven forbid you say anything political! :rolleyes:

RogerMilla

20/12/2007, 12:30 PM

Finally, its all just a bit of craic, refers to this myopic view, whereby when someone states something, its just a bit of banter, but when its turned around the other way, its anything but. Nothing political in it whatsoever.

if i am being offhand or engaging in banter then i will use a smilie to indicate so. If you see my view as myopic then thats your perogative , but dont denigrate it. I see it is every bit as valid as your own or i would not put it forward. It's far from a bit of craic as the countless pages on this subject has shown.

kingdomkerry

20/12/2007, 12:45 PM

Don't support us then! Set up your own team with your own anthems and your own easily offended players then! As long as any player from any part of Ireland (or their descendants) can continue playing for the current Irish team, good f*cking riddance to you.

Here here!!!

In the case of rugby why should members of the irish rugby team not sing the irish national anthem?

Absinthe

20/12/2007, 12:52 PM

I didnt say that I said if it sang GSTQ it would no longer be the Irish rugby team.

The question was:

"Would you still support the Ireland Rugby Team if it:"

Your response was :

"b) No I wouldnt , but it wouldnt be the Irish team then so it would not be a choice i would have to make. I am happy with our Irish team flag by the way as seen at the world cup , its very nice."

My question is still the same, why should someone in Northern Ireland "look at themselves" for not supporting the team on the National Anthem Issue?

The Irish Rugby team represents 2 Countries, not just your own.

In response to your other posts, it is good to see progress being made, but remember that the Belfast match was only about 6 months ago.

Absinthe

20/12/2007, 1:18 PM

And I said because they hold Irish citizenship.

Thanks.

Maik Taylor would not be eligible to German citizenship even if he was born outside the barracks and his parents were not soliders because at the time of his birth, Maik Taylor needed a German parent to gain it. (GR: Once again I am directing one of your compatriots to the term Jus Sanguinnis).

But the point is what connection does he have with the O6C? You want us to stop people playing for us who 'have never stepped foot' in the 26C (highly unlikely) but want to continue playing Maik Taylor and co because they qualify through a British passport.

The Rules have changed twice since then. He is no longer eligible for Northern Ireland. I was merely telling you why he was eligible.

As he says, it is no longer an Irish team with that anthem. Neither is NI.

Utter nonsense. I am Northern Irish, and every bit as valid an Irishman as you, and it has nothing to do with which passport I choose to carry, or which ones im entitled to.

The Northern (unionist) rugby fan has the choice. Either put up with it or b*gger off. We have an inclusive rugby anthem now and rugby flag. EG doesn't want the Sash added to the SS as - in the usual mock offence that is common from ourweeminds - he's not an Orangeman. But he's happy - and you to - with a song about a German who has as much ancestral links to NI as that Maik Taylor.

Less than 5% of Northern Irish people are in OO. But sure, dont let that stop you having a dig. And I, and im pretty sure EG has also said, would change the National Anthem given the choice/chance.

How about practicing what you preach and have the SS played before NI games.

Why on earth would we do that?

The IFA have miles to go to match the IRFU in its quest for inclusiveness with regards to the anthem - In fact, with the exception of Dublin, the SS has never been played at any of its games.

Its not your rugby team. Its our rugby, therein lies the difference.

Yeah, yeah, yeah! If you find us so offensive then f*ck off! Is that offensive enough?

Your a T**T. I just wanted to add something to my post that you would be able to understand, and quote correctly.

Heaven forbid you say anything political! :rolleyes:

See above, responses in bold.

RogerMilla

20/12/2007, 1:19 PM

My question is still the same, why should someone in Northern Ireland "look at themselves" for not supporting the team on the National Anthem Issue?
.

Because progress has been made on that issue and if that is the only objection then i think they could be the bigger person and support the team until finally it gets to a stage where the anthem thing is sorted to their satisfaction.

I myself would not support the team if GSTQ was its tune because i cannot identify with that song and thus couldnt identify with the team because were GSTQ the tune, the team would be so different as to be unidentifiable from the one we have now. Ulster players dont sing the irish national anthem becase they dont identify with it, they are the bigger men for playing for Ireland regardless. Perhaps some day I'll stand to GSTQ in ravenhill before Ireland kick off but that would be a day where GSTQ is being played due to the fact that Ireland is at home in Belfast , not because it is the national anthem.

Absinthe

20/12/2007, 1:26 PM

Because progress has been made on that issue and if that is the only objection then i think they could be the bigger person and support the team until finally it gets to a stage where the anthem thing is sorted to their satisfaction.

I myself would not support the team if GSTQ was its tune because i cannot identify with that song and thus couldnt identify with the team because were GSTQ the tune, the team would be so different as to be unidentifiable from the one we have now. Ulster players dont sing the irish national anthem becase they dont identify with it, they are the bigger men for playing for Ireland regardless. Perhaps some day I'll stand to GSTQ in ravenhill before Ireland kick off but that would be a day where GSTQ is being played due to the fact that Ireland is at home in Belfast , not because it is the national anthem.

Thats fine. Im sure you understand the point that Im making.

RogerMilla

20/12/2007, 1:27 PM

Thats fine. Im sure you understand the point that Im making.

and you mine? ;-)

lopez

20/12/2007, 1:44 PM

The Rules have changed twice since then. He is no longer eligible for Northern Ireland. I was merely telling you why he was eligible.I've said this before and I'll say it again. I couldn't care what the rules were, are or will be. I don't care who you pick. Don't bother justifying who is or was in your team and how they got there. Just don't start criticising our selection when all our players hold the nationality and citizenship connected with the team they play for (as recognised by FIFA).

Utter nonsense. I am Northern Irish, and every bit as valid an Irishman as you, and it has nothing to do with which passport I choose to carry, or which ones im entitled to.
The fact that you wish to be represented by the British national anthem and the British flag means your Irishness is not a nationality but a regionality. If you feel somehow more 'plastic' than those of us that regard our Irishness as our nationality, then I suggest you reconsider your allegiance.

Less than 5% of Northern Irish people are in OO. But sure, dont let that stop you having a dig. And I, and im pretty sure EG has also said, would change the National Anthem given the choice/chance.
And 45% of the popualtion of NI is Nationalist. But guess which song (OO or Nationalist) I've heard sung by NI fans at WP (And notwithstanding the youtube fillum from Cardiff). Anyway, I sung 'The Sash' leaving a Celtic game at Loftus Road five years ago with a good Fermanagh man. (Got some odd looks it must be said). It may come as a surprise to you that neither of us are members of the OO (I don't think they'd have us, and not just because of our bad singing).

Its not your rugby team. Its our rugby, therein lies the difference.
It's the team of the people of Ireland. The majority want to hear the SS at Irish games. The majority of the players sing it. I'd say that the majority would accept a compromise that doesn't diminish the teams Irishness. I'd be happy with both flags (Irish and NI) and two anthems providing neither are the national anthem of England/Britain.

Your a T**T. I just wanted to add something to my post that you would be able to understand, and quote correctly.
Aw shucks! Am I supposed to be offended by THAT? :D

ifk101

20/12/2007, 1:49 PM

I think the IRFU has done more than enough to accommodate the minority interests of our wee ones up North. Don't forget the team represents the whole of the island and its isles. And as such the majority interests of the people of the Ireland should be openly paraded, represented, and draped in tricolours.

The whinging of wee keyboard warriors on their WUMing crusade should feel the force of a ROG kick to the touchline.

osarusan

20/12/2007, 2:25 PM

Because progress has been made on that issue and if that is the only objection then i think they could be the bigger person and support the team until finally it gets to a stage where the anthem thing is sorted to their satisfaction.

I myself would not support the team if GSTQ was its tune because i cannot identify with that song and thus couldnt identify with the team because were GSTQ the tune, the team would be so different as to be unidentifiable from the one we have now. Ulster players dont sing the irish national anthem becase they dont identify with it, they are the bigger men for playing for Ireland regardless. Perhaps some day I'll stand to GSTQ in ravenhill before Ireland kick off but that would be a day where GSTQ is being played due to the fact that Ireland is at home in Belfast , not because it is the national anthem.

Does that mean your refusal to accept GSTQ makes you the smaller man?

RogerMilla

20/12/2007, 2:32 PM

Does that mean your refusal to accept GSTQ makes you the smaller man?

My refusal to accept GSTQ is because I'm not English or even British.

Absinthe

20/12/2007, 3:14 PM

The fact that you wish to be represented by the British national anthem and the British flag means your Irishness is not a nationality but a regionality. If you feel somehow more 'plastic' than those of us that regard our Irishness as our nationality, then I suggest you reconsider your allegiance.

I think you must be having a totally different discussion in your head, as opposed to what im actually typing.

This is the third time today, you are quoting me as saying something I havent said.

You are stating as fact that I wish to be represented by the British National Anthem.

Tell me, oh great one:

Am I a monarchist?
What did I have for breakfast?
Where was I born?

kingdomkerry

20/12/2007, 5:39 PM

Because progress has been made on that issue and if that is the only objection then i think they could be the bigger person and support the team until finally it gets to a stage where the anthem thing is sorted to their satisfaction.

I myself would not support the team if GSTQ was its tune because i cannot identify with that song and thus couldnt identify with the team because were GSTQ the tune, the team would be so different as to be unidentifiable from the one we have now. Ulster players dont sing the irish national anthem becase they dont identify with it, they are the bigger men for playing for Ireland regardless. Perhaps some day I'll stand to GSTQ in ravenhill before Ireland kick off but that would be a day where GSTQ is being played due to the fact that Ireland is at home in Belfast , not because it is the national anthem.

I really hope you are joking.

I'll tell you one thing when Ireland play home games in belfast. There will be no game if GSTQ is played as the anthem.

I bet you any money the majority of players would refuse to play and rightly so IMO.

Not Brazil

20/12/2007, 7:11 PM

Players who want to play with the northern team (some would say sectarian team) can if they want.

"Some" being true bigots.

GavinZac

20/12/2007, 7:16 PM

Wildly off-topic: If there was a way of just gently nudging NI away, over toward iceland perhaps, I gladly would. Sick of hearing about the place. If people want to live in Republic of Ireland, just drive down, stop making a fuss. There's plenty of room, and the petrol is cheaper here anyway. The way they go on, you'd swear no-one else had ever lost a war before.

Not Brazil

20/12/2007, 7:18 PM

[INDENT]
I'll tell you one thing when Ireland play home games in belfast. There will be no game if GSTQ is played as the anthem.

The IRFU deem games in Belfast to be "away" fixtures.

I'm sure the Shinners are spiting blood over that little revelation.:D:D:D

lopez

20/12/2007, 7:42 PM

The IRFU deem games in Belfast to be "away" fixtures.

I'm sure the Shinners are spiting blood over that little revelation.And if they deemed it a home game and didn't play the German Lady, your mates on ourweeminds would have been spitting blood over that too (I won't ask how they're taking the news from Zurich :D)

kingdomkerry

20/12/2007, 7:48 PM

No they dont. Im sure they realise Belfast is our 2nd city?

Not Brazi, somebody has the nerve to say what many others think else about the northern team and they are a biggot! Dont make me laugh. I never said i thought it was sectarian. I said others do. Im only stating fact.

Anyway this topic has gone way off topic

shakermaker1982

20/12/2007, 7:50 PM

I come on this forum every day and this thread makes me laugh the most. Keep up the good work lads!!!

GavinZac

20/12/2007, 7:55 PM

Not Brazi, somebody has the nerve to say what many others think else about the northern team and they are a biggot! Dont make me laugh. I never said i thought it was sectarian. I said others do. Im only stating fact.And he said they were bigots. He never said you were.

Blanchflower

21/12/2007, 7:47 AM

Everyone who wants to play for Ireland [sic] can if they want

Nonsense.

1. You have to be eligible under the rules.
2. You have to be picked by the manager.

Blanchflower

21/12/2007, 7:48 AM

so I'm not allowed to call the rugby team I support "us" ? and by extension the all-ireland soccer team if it ever came about "us"? not that i am in any way advocating one or want one , or advocating political union either.

In the context of the discussion, by "us" it read like you meant "ROI", i.e. as if the Ireland rugby team was an ROI team.

Blanchflower

21/12/2007, 7:53 AM

Don't support us then! Set up your own team with your own anthems and your own easily offended players then! As long as any player from any part of Ireland (or their descendants) can continue playing for the current Irish team, good f*cking riddance to you.

If that is the attitude of Southerners to the all-Ireland rugby teams, one wonders why they are surprised at people from NI who don't want an all-Ireland football team.

Blanchflower

21/12/2007, 7:56 AM

Because the Ireland Rugby team is on a progressive course to becoming more inclusive as evidenced by the anthem and flags and in that spirit anyone who is a rugby fan on the island who finds it impossible to support them should give them another go.

Many, including myself, would have agreed with you about the "progressive course" up until the Italy match last year. Up until then we had been told that the policy was to use the Soldier's Song and Southern flag when home matches were played in the South, and GSTQ and the Union Flag when they were played in the North (it just so happened, of course, that no home matches were ever played in the North!). Then, however, we got a home match in the North and suddenly the policy was dropped. That was surely a regressive step?

Blanchflower

21/12/2007, 7:58 AM

I didnt say that I said if it sang GSTQ it would no longer be the Irish rugby team.

Why?:confused:

An all-Ireland team using the anthem of Southern Ireland is Irish, but an all-Ireland team using the anthem of Northern Ireland is not?

That doesn't make sense.

Blanchflower

21/12/2007, 8:02 AM

The IFA have miles to go to match the IRFU in its quest for inclusiveness with regards to the anthem - In fact, with the exception of Dublin, the SS has never been played at any of its games.

I thought the Soldier's Song was used for all games, home and away, until fairly recently?

Blanchflower

21/12/2007, 8:03 AM

My refusal to accept GSTQ is because I'm not English or even British.

But many Irishmen and women are British.

And many Irishmen and women are not Southern Irish, so why should they accept the Soldier's Song?

You don't seem to have a very even-handed approach!

Blanchflower

21/12/2007, 8:04 AM

Here here!!!

In the case of rugby why should members of the irish rugby team not sing the irish national anthem?

1. The phrase is "hear, hear".

2. They shouldn't sing the Southern anthem, because it is an all-Ireland team.

ifk101

21/12/2007, 8:18 AM

They shouldn't sing the Irish National Anthem, although I do find it to be a catchy tune, because it is an all-Ireland team.

Edited :)

Blanchflower

21/12/2007, 8:55 AM

You do realise that Ireland is partitioned?

Drumcondra 69er

21/12/2007, 8:55 AM

I thought the Soldier's Song was used for all games, home and away, until fairly recently?

Don't think so. What do you consider fairly recently to be?

And what are people debating egg chasing on a football (or soccer if people want to be pedants) forum? Sh1t sport in any case.

gspain

21/12/2007, 8:56 AM

I thought the Soldier's Song was used for all games, home and away, until fairly recently?

No it is/was only ever used for home games. I don't think it has ever been played for an Ireland rugby team outside of the RoI.

Word I heard from a very reliable source is that the Ulster Branch agreed to no GSTQ in return for all the tickets for the Italy game. I posted this on OWC in late Feb/early March long before the issue was decided and it proved to be correct. My club got no tickets for the game.

Blanchflower

21/12/2007, 9:02 AM

Don't think so. What do you consider fairly recently to be?

No it is/was only ever used for home games. I don't think it has ever been played for an Ireland rugby team outside of the RoI.

I stand corrected, then. Was no anthem used for away games prior to "Ireland's Call"?

By "fairly recently" I meant pre-"Ireland's Call".

Not Brazil

21/12/2007, 9:07 AM

. Perhaps one day they will have a home game in Belfast with an agreed anthem. ( I would not be backing GSTQ down at paddypower though).

They had an away game in Belfast recently, with the agreed anthem.

That agreed anthem should be the ONLY anthem played, WHEREVER the Ireland rugby team play, be that Dublin, Belfast, Paris etc...

ifk101

21/12/2007, 9:18 AM

That agreed anthem should be the ONLY anthem played, WHEREVER the Ireland rugby team play, be that Dublin, Belfast, Paris etc...

Absolutely not.

Miniority interests should be respected but majority interests should be adhered to. If matches are to played in the country of Ireland, out of respect to its people and the state, the national anthem should be played every time an international sporting event takes place within its territories.

Blanchflower

21/12/2007, 9:40 AM

Absolutely not.

Miniority interests should be respected but majority interests should be adhered to. If matches are to played in the country of Ireland, out of respect to its people and the state, the national anthem should be played every time an international sporting event takes place within its territories.

If Lansdowne Road/Croke Park hosted, say, a World Cup semi-final between South Africa and France - are you saying that the Soldier's Song should be played?

Was the Marseillaise played at this year's World Cup final?

By your logic, God Save the Queen should have been played at the Italy match. Is that your position?

Blanchflower

21/12/2007, 9:41 AM

I stand corrected, then. Was no anthem used for away games prior to "Ireland's Call"?

By "fairly recently" I meant pre-"Ireland's Call".

Incidentally, what about flags? What flags were/are flown to represent the Irish rugby team at away matches?

Not Brazil

21/12/2007, 9:43 AM

Absolutely not.

Miniority interests should be respected but majority interests should be adhered to. If matches are to played in the country of Ireland, out of respect to its people and the state, the national anthem should be played every time an international sporting event takes place within its territories.

Great arguement for the retention of GSTQ at Northern Ireland matches.

Basically, the "Ireland" rugby team, is a ROI rugby team, with a few folk of "minority interest" invited to play.

As a proud Irishman, I can assure you that the Soldiers Song and Tricolor will never represent my nationality.