Eligibility proposal

[Sligo Hornet]

They don't have any top class players at the moment but if There are people out there that believe in Northern Ireland and the Northern Ireland team and they should be respected until democratically that changes.

I want the best manager for the Republic of Ireland not a protestant manager who will convince the middle class unionist to come down and support a so called united Ireland team. Your post is clearly delusional. Remember also that Northern Ireland are having a better campaign than us and have beaten England and Spain recently, who have we beaten.

Surely you cannot have forgotten that famous night in San Marino when against all odds we overcame their mighty side in the closing seconds!;)

[gspain]

Oh I didn't mean you eelmonster! I meant Henry or Harry or Horace or whatever your man from the paper is called. He had his basic facts wrong about the Kernaghan case and it read like he was trying to construct, by omission of fact, a picture wherein Kernaghan walked out on or turned his back on Northern Ireland for us. Couldn't be further from the truth.

The IFA turned Kernaghan away because he was born in England to England/Britain/ non-NI born parents of Ulster folk. His parents then brought him to live in NI when he was only four or five and there he remained until he became a professional footballer and actually played for NI schoolboys.

Then he found out the IFA weren't going to pick him because they were party to a daft, stupid, hair-brained "home countries" deal which was concocted entirely to maximise Englands available player pool to the detriment of NI, Scotland and Wales.

I have a degree of sympathy for the IFA when it comes to lads like Darron Gibson effectively "cuckooing" in their system but in Kernaghans case I have not so much as a morsel.

Alan Kernaghan's 4 grandparents were from NI. He moved back to Bangor when he was 4. They still decided not to pick him so he chose us. He is unfairly remembered for the Spain game in 1993 when he was poor but so were many others. he was a decent no-nonsense centre half who always gave 100%. In particular he ha d agreat game in Copenhagen in 1992 when we drew with the European champions.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Alan Kernaghan's 4 grandparents were from NI. He moved back to Bangor when he was 4. They still decided not to pick him so he chose us. He is unfairly remembered for the Spain game in 1993 when he was poor but so were many others. he was a decent no-nonsense centre half who always gave 100%. In particular he ha d agreat game in Copenhagen in 1992 when we drew with the European champions.

Agreed. Also scored an important goal for us to kill off Lithuania in Dublin which scarcely gets a mention.

[Not Brazil]

A great day for the rights of our friends in the north and for irish soccer. I also believe this is a massive step towards an all ireland team!!!

I believe it has cemented the polarisation of football on this island for many years.

It is potentially a "massive step" to creating an Irish Nationalist team.

I would say, this morning, that Northern Ireland fans, in the main, feel further away from being "united" with the rest of Ireland than ever.

Isolation will not "unite" anything.

However, congratulations on getting one over on the people you wish to be "united" with.

[RogerMilla]

Surely you cannot have forgotten that famous night in San Marino when against all odds we overcame their mighty side in the closing seconds!;)

ah feck , ya beat me to it !!

[RogerMilla]

However, congratulations on getting one over on the people you wish to be "united" with.
Surely a blow has been struck for those who wish to be united with us ? Those who dont still have their team to support and play for. This is about Irish citizens living in NI who could not countenance playing for the NI team and who can now represent their country.

[Paddy Garcia]

It is potentially a "massive step" to creating an Irish Nationalist team.

I would say, this morning, that Northern Ireland fans, in the main, feel further away from being "united" with the rest of Ireland than ever.

Isolation will not "unite" anything.

However, congratulations on getting one over on the people you wish to be "united" with.

I really don't believe it was ever about getting one over anyone. The arguements have been well rehersed, and we believe Gibson and his ilk are entitled to play for their country.

If there was an intervention seeking to "get one over their neighbour" it was was Worthington & Cos attempt to prevent Gibson continuing to play for us.

Understand your disappointment, but, if there is a feeling of resentment, I'd suggest this is in part related to the early celebrations last week, in some cases rammed down the throats of your neighbours.

[Not Brazil]

Simple (genuine) questions:

Are the FAI and IFA closer, or further apart, as a result of this decision?

How does that bode for good relations between the respective Associations?

[Paddy Garcia]

Fair enough.

But would it be any different if the outcome was the opposite!

[Drumcondra 69er]

I believe it has cemented the polarisation of football on this island for many years.

It is potentially a "massive step" to creating an Irish Nationalist team.

I would say, this morning, that Northern Ireland fans, in the main, feel further away from being "united" with the rest of Ireland than ever.

Isolation will not "unite" anything.

However, congratulations on getting one over on the people you wish to be "united" with.

Very bitter. This wasn't about getting 'one over' on anyone. Anyone who wants to play for NI is still able to. I'd suggest your association focusses on those players rather then trying to force players who don't into a corner.

I would suggest that Northern Ireland fans have never felt 'united' with the rest of Ireland hence their alligeience to GSTQ for example.

Common sense prevailed, the NI media really shouldn't have jumped the gun.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Simple (genuine) questions:

Are the FAI and IFA closer, or further apart, as a result of this decision?

How does that bode for good relations between the respective Associations?

Probably not but if the Celtic Cup comes about the two associations will have to work together and the extra revenue that it generates will soon outweigh any lingering resentment.

As Paddy Garcia says relations were going to take a hit regardless of whose side the decision fell into.

[Not Brazil]

Fair enough.

But would it be any different if the outcome was the opposite!

Probably not.

What we can be sure about is that the notion of a singular, so called, "united" Ireland team is a lot further away than it was 24 hours ago.

We have a situation of potential increased polarisation.

The IFA and FAI are now, de facto, fierce competitors.

A "united" Nationalist Ireland team is a far, far, cry from a truly "United" Ireland team.

As a football man first and foremost, I fear now for things like the Setanta Cup - something that promotes "unity" between football fans North and South of the border and requires the co-operation of both Associations.

[Not Brazil]

Very bitter.

Far from it.

A tad sad at a decision which will further divide both comunities in Northern Ireland, but not bitter.

I've said all along that I'll live by FIFA's decision, and move on.

It's not the end of the world.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Probably not.

What we can be sure about is that the notion of a singular, so called, "united" Ireland team is a lot further away than it was 24 hours ago.

We have a situation of potential increased polarisation.

The IFA and FAI are now, de facto, fierce competitors.

A "united" Nationalist Ireland team is a far, far, cry from a truly "United" Ireland team.

As a football man first and foremost, I fear now for things like the Setanta Cup - something that promotes "unity" between football fans North and South of the border and requires the co-operation of both Associations.


Money talks in football these days. Any grievences can and will be put aside if it's profitable to do so. Setanta Cup falls into that category.

It's a decision that's been made, time to move on from it.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Far from it.

A tad sad at a decision which will further divide both comunities in Northern Ireland, but not bitter.

I've said all along that I'll live by FIFA's decision, and move on.

It's not the end of the world.

Fair enough. I think the divisions were already there though or this situation wouldn't have arisen.

You beat me to the moving on bit!

[galwayhoop]

Far from it.

A tad sad at a decision which will further divide both comunities in Northern Ireland, but not bitter.

I've said all along that I'll live by FIFA's decision, and move on.

It's not the end of the world.

the decision doesn't change our situation one iota. in fact it only increases the IFA's potential player pool.

[eirebhoy]

I really don't believe it was ever about getting one over anyone. The arguements have been well rehersed, and we believe Gibson and his ilk are entitled to play for their country.

If there was an intervention seeking to "get one over their neighbour" it was was Worthington & Cos attempt to prevent Gibson continuing to play for us.

Understand your disappointment, but, if there is a feeling of resentment, I'd suggest this is in part related to the early celebrations last week, in some cases rammed down the throats of your neighbours.
I honestly don't. What has he to be disappointed for? Not Brazil has always said he only wants players that really want to play for Northern Ireland.

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance but I haven't a clue what you're talking about NB... How will it increase polarisation and divide both communities?

[Absinthe]

Why not get legal advice?
FIFA are sticking to article 15, the Annex conditions do not apply.
There is a question because Irish passport holders are not citizens of NI (if there is such a thing) so how can they play for NI according to article 15 ?
There is a legal question.
What FIFA are saying is that under FIFA's rules that 2 associations can make an agreement and FIFA rubberstamp it and add it in to the Articles as an addendum.

FIFA have signed up to the Court of Arbitration in Sport so any disputes end up there.

This would be my initial reaction, and is largely a post I put up on 'Our Wee Country'.

Reminder of the Fifa Statutes, which they have said still apply.


1. Any person holding the nationality of a country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of his country. The Executive Committee shall decide on the conditions of eligibility for any Player whose nationality entitles him to represent more than one Association.

2. As a general rule, any Player who has already represented one Association (either in full or in part) in an official competition of any category may not play an international match with another Association team.

3. If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if the Player is eligible to play for several Association teams due to his nationality, the following exceptions apply:

(i) Up to his 21st birthday, a player may only once request changing the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches. A Player may exercise this right to change Associations only if he has not played at "A" international level for his current Association and if, at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition of any other category, he already had such nationalities. Changing Associations is not permitted during the preliminary competition of a FIFA competition, continental championship or Olympic Tournaments if a player has already been fielded in a match of one of these competitions.

(ii) Any Player who has already acquired eligibility to play for one Association but has another nationality imposed upon him by a government authority, is also entitled to change associations. This provision is not subject to any age limits.

4. Any Player who wishes to exercise this right to change Associations shall submit a written and substantiated request to the FIFA general secretariat. After submitting the request, the player is no longer qualified to play for his current Association's team. The Players' Status Committee shall decide on the request. The committee's decision may be brought before the Appeal Committee. The Regulations for the Status and Transfer of Players contain more detailed provisions.

5. Any Players who have already had their 21st birthday at the time of implementation of these provisions and who fulfil the requirements in par. 3 (a) are also entitled to submit such a request to change Associations. This entitlement will expire definitively twelve months after implementation of this provision.

Questions then must be:

Do they have to declare for the Republic before they are 21?

and

How are people in the RoI eligible to play for us? If it is via their Irish passport, then that makes everyone with a British or an Irish passport eligible for us. That being the case, why cant we pick English (born and bred) players? i.e. Why does the additional statute apply for British passport holders, but not Irish ones?

I should also say that, while I strongly disagree with Fifas decision, (it is a farce to have 2 teams picking from EXACTLY the same territories), I dont think its quite the Death Knell of the Northern Irish football team. I believe this decision will cost us 2-3 players a generation at most, and who knows, it may force the IFA into becoming a professional organisation, with regards to grass roots training.

I think this will a least run for a bit, while they clarify those two points. I honestly don't see how this 'compromise' 'fits' with their current rules.

[paul_oshea]

As far as I understand the proposal. The agreement is only for footballers born on the Island.
"Anybody born on the 32 County Island of Ireland can play for either Northern Ireland or the Republic Of Ireland"

Anybody who acquires Irish citizenship due to ancestory or residency can only play for the Republic.

I think you have it right, its all in the wording so to speak. And of course they are going to consult their legal department, it would be typical stupid FAI stuff if they didnt, there are always scenarios unthought of and thats where the legal department comes in.

[paul_oshea]

I have to say I really disagree with what you are saying. This was about allowing Irish players to choose to play for the country of their birth and they identify with, not about trying to completely destroy the northerners team.

I'm 100% in favour of an all-Ireland side but until that day comes we have to respect their right to their own team and to administer it in their own way - it is not our place to suggest playing games in the territory of their association or to start labelling them as a 'B' team. We cannot ask them to respect our rights, then turn around and disrespect theirs. The fact is that a large number of people do identify with their team, just as a large number do with ours. As is stands, as long as our players and fans in the north have the right to choose, I believe their players and fans should have that right too. Hopefully one day things will be different.

Great post shane.

[youngirish]

In fairness I can see why Not Brazil is pi**ed off (EalingGreen has probably hung himself with his ourweecountry scarf after getting dressed up in his best ourweecountry football kit preserved since 1982) but considering the situation on this island it was never going to be fair to the individual to prevent NI born nationalists from playing for the country they've supported and followed all their life. The individual's rights should in this case outweigh those of the football associations.

After saying that I don't believe it's fair for the FAI to actively pursue NI born players, they should leave them to it to make their own decisions. If they really want to play for the ROI then let the player come to us.

[eirebhoy]

I should also say that, while I strongly disagree with Fifas decision, (it is a farce to have 2 teams picking from EXACTLY the same territories)
We'll just have to rely on good old patriotism.

[Absinthe]

After saying that I don't believe it's fair for the FAI to actively pursue NI born players, they should leave them to it to make their own decisions.

I personally would accept that. But, unfortunately this would be unenforceable.

Lets make it a gentlemans agreement instead? :p :mad:

[paul_oshea]

I should also say that, while I strongly disagree with Fifas decision, (it is a farce to have 2 teams picking from EXACTLY the same territories), I dont think its quite the Death Knell of the Northern Irish football team. I believe this decision will cost us 2-3 players a generation at most, and who knows, it may force the IFA into becoming a professional organisation, with regards to grass roots training.

I feel, if this is enforced( or basically the Farmers Association agree ) that this will give the IFA the kick in the backside to get a new anthem, a new flag etc and this will then become an all round solution rather than a problem. NB, I guarantee you, as money and wealth etc takes over in NI, peoples religious and nationalistic beliefs will dilute. People will start to see this "new" team and what it adapts as their own. Agreeing with the above post in that at the very most 2 players that are actually in the ROI team a decade. Players from EL etc could well declare for NI, and why wouldn't they, but what I really believe is the disappointment of NB etc is that they don't want castoffs etc or a team that isn't born up north and feels BritIrish. IN the longer run, if our friends in the North can see past this, that this proposal actually brings change ( and capitalise on this ) in the North in more ways than one then the future for NI looks a lot brighter.

[cavan_fan]

This seems a bit of an odd decision and shows that no-one really understands the purpose of the 2 teams. Technically they are both supposed to represent territories but at the root the majority of the southern population and the Nationalist population of the North see the FAI side as representing all of Ireland. The Non Nationalist population of the North would agree with the technical understanding.

It makes no sense under either for people born in the south to play for Northern Ireland, this is just a way of appearing to compromise. I actually think some people will decie to go this route, if for example you were Joe Gamble or even Alan Lee wouldnt a regular appearance for NI be better than none for ROI.

I just wish FIFA had made a consistent decision. If for example they extended this so that the significant Russian minority in Ukraine can play for Russia will they allow all Russians to play for Ukraine.

[RogerMilla]

I can't see the IFA accepting this though , i presume they have a right to appeal ? also there deffo needs to be something sorted as regards the underage teams , hardly fair for fellas to pay for NI all the way up ( excpet for schoolboys of course) and then declare for us.

[EalingGreen]

Just as some in NI seem to have "jumped the gun" in believing the leaks that the IFA's case was going to be accepted by FIFA, I feel it may be equally premature for others to consider that the FAI has actually won its case (albeit by a somewhat contrived "compromise").

Having heard the two Associations' submissions, it doesn't look to me that FIFA have decided between the two. Rather, they look to be offering a "third way", in the hope that it will be acceptable to both Associations.

On which point, however well-intentioned FIFA may be in making this offer, it cannot be acceptable to the IFA, either in principle - we are not interested in selecting players from the ROI - or in practice - anyone who knows anything about the situation on the ground knows that the traffic is only likely to be one way.

I don't know whether FIFA have been "got at" by somebody, or whether this is merely a (naive) attempt by them to remain on the fence, but I would be very disappointed indeed if the IFA caved in on this one.

As I've said many times before, if FIFA determines that the Rules as they stand favour the FAI, then so be it. However, rather than adjudicating, by this proposal FIFA actually seem to me to be trying to ignore the Rules, since no logical construction or interpretation can make an Irish citizen from the 26 counties, who has no family or residential connection with NI and no right to British citizenship, eligible to represent NI.

Bizarre.

[youngirish]

I don't know whether FIFA have been "got at" by somebody, or whether this is merely a (naive) attempt by them to remain on the fence, but I would be very disappointed indeed if the IFA caved in on this one.



Fox Mulder is at it again. It was cigarette smoking man.

[EalingGreen]

This seems a bit of an odd decision and shows that no-one really understands the purpose of the 2 teams. Technically they are both supposed to represent territories but at the root the majority of the southern population and the Nationalist population of the North see the FAI side as representing all of Ireland. The Non Nationalist population of the North would agree with the technical understanding.

It makes no sense under either for people born in the south to play for Northern Ireland, this is just a way of appearing to compromise. I actually think some people will decie to go this route, if for example you were Joe Gamble or even Alan Lee wouldnt a regular appearance for NI be better than none for ROI.

I just wish FIFA had made a consistent decision. If for example they extended this so that the significant Russian minority in Ukraine can play for Russia will they allow all Russians to play for Ukraine.

Thank you, Cavanman, for at least trying to understand the position of the IFA in all this - "Stand Up for the Ulstermen"? ;)

However, I must take issue with the part of your post which I've emboldened. I know of no NI fan who is in the slightest bit interested in selecting players from the 26 counties who have no other connection with NI. It doesn't matter if they were better than our locally-born players. It wouldn't even matter if they turned out to be better than the ROI players in their respective positions. It wouldn't even matter if they were the next Paul McGrath and for some reason genuinely preferred to play for us rather than ROI. It wouldn't even matter if more Southerners wanted to play for us than Northerners wanted to play for ROI.

It is nothing personal, but we are no more interested in picking "your" players than we are e.g. in picking players from England, Scotland or Wales - all of whom might have arguably have, as UK citizens, more connection with NI.

In the end, all we want is to pick the best 11 players who either were born in NI, have recent family from NI, or who have lived in NI. Thereafter, their politics/religion/anyotherbloodything should matter not one jot.

[ifk101]

In the end, all we want is to pick the best 11 players who either were born in NI, have recent family from NI, or who have lived in NI. Thereafter, their politics/religion/anyotherbloodything should matter not one jot.

And you can still do so.

[Dodge]

Bizarre.

As is all aspects of Ireland/Northern Ireland.

BTW this clears the way for Northern ireland to legally play players from anywhere in Britain or Ireland.

[co. down green]

It is nothing personal, but we are no more interested in picking "your" players than we are e.g. in picking players from England, Scotland or Wales - all of whom might have arguably have, as UK citizens, more connection with NI.

In the end, all we want is to pick the best 11 players who either were born in NI, have recent family from NI, or who have lived in NI. Thereafter, their politics/religion/anyotherbloodything should matter not one jot.

A bit like Maik taylor then, who was born in Germany to a German mother & English father, and has no grandparents from the island of Ireland ;)

[cavan_fan]

Thank you, Cavanman, for at least trying to understand the position of the IFA in all this - "Stand Up for the Ulstermen"? ;)

However, I must take issue with the part of your post which I've emboldened. I know of no NI fan who is in the slightest bit interested in selecting players from the 26 counties who have no other connection with NI. It doesn't matter if they were better than our locally-born players.

Dont get me started on the Ulster v Northern Ireland issue!

I'm not saying that NI fans want southern rejects but you'd be surprised how you can adapt! We could offer some advice as part of the Andy Townsend course in adopted countires! Does anyone in NI really think they were Maik Taylor's first choice?

[EalingGreen]

And you can still do so.

Not if some of those players are being offered the choice to represent another Association by a "mechanism" which is not open to players from any of the other 206 Associations in FIFA.

[EalingGreen]

BTW this clears the way for Northern ireland to legally play players from anywhere in Britain or Ireland.

"Ireland", maybe but most definitely NOT "anywhere in Britain", for two reasons. First, this FIFA Proposal appears specifically to refer only to players born in Ireland. Second, there is already in place an Agreement between the four British Associations which prevents this (an Agreement recognised by FIFA, btw)

[Drumcondra 69er]

Thank you, Cavanman, for at least trying to understand the position of the IFA in all this - "Stand Up for the Ulstermen"? ;)

However, I must take issue with the part of your post which I've emboldened. I know of no NI fan who is in the slightest bit interested in selecting players from the 26 counties who have no other connection with NI. It doesn't matter if they were better than our locally-born players. It wouldn't even matter if they turned out to be better than the ROI players in their respective positions. It wouldn't even matter if they were the next Paul McGrath and for some reason genuinely preferred to play for us rather than ROI. It wouldn't even matter if more Southerners wanted to play for us than Northerners wanted to play for ROI.

It is nothing personal, but we are no more interested in picking "your" players than we are e.g. in picking players from England, Scotland or Wales - all of whom might have arguably have, as UK citizens, more connection with NI.

In the end, all we want is to pick the best 11 players who either were born in NI, have recent family from NI, or who have lived in NI. Thereafter, their politics/religion/anyotherbloodything should matter not one jot.

Out of interest, say a unionist family living on Donegal or Cavan (or even Cork or Dublin) since partition who still participate in the 12th July marches that still go on in that part of the 26 counties produced a son who turned out to be an exceptional player and wanted to play for NI. Would you accept him as your player or turn him away?

[EalingGreen]

A bit like Maik taylor then, who was born in Germany to a German mother & English father, and has no grandparents from the island of Ireland ;)

Maik Taylor was first capped by NI in the last century(!), when the Rules were very different from those applicable today. Were another Maik Taylor to come along, we would not seek to select him, nor would we be allowed to, either by the other "home" Associations, nor by FIFA.

Maik Taylor is not the issue, here.

[geysir]

For those from NI who wanted the Annex criteria applied and are now bitter and dissapointed.
The IFA have a poor understanding of the Fifa Statutes of eligibility and what the Annex criteria of eligibilty was about.
Fifa have not deviated one bit from Article 15. The Annex criteria do not apply.

To start with, the IFA arguement had no foundation. I said before that Howard Wells was leading them up a garden path and that it was actually Well's responsibilty to inform the NI fans of how FIFA statutes are applied. Instead we had a very public, parish pump communal politicising, raising the emotions of NI supporters.
If there is any residue of bitterness left after this affair, I can only hold the IFA responsible for that.
The FAI have approached this whole issue appropriatly while the IFA employees were making headlines the FAI kept their heads down.
The FAI could have raised public emotions about the aspirations of young nationals born in the North, they didn't.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Dont get me started on the Ulster v Northern Ireland issue!

I'm not saying that NI fans want southern rejects but you'd be surprised how you can adapt! We could offer some advice as part of the Andy Townsend course in adopted countires! Does anyone in NI really think they were Maik Taylor's first choice?

I'm assuming that reference was down to the fact that you are also an Ulsterman rather then the annoying habit some have of refering to Notern Ireland as Ulster when it only consists of 2/3rds of the province.

Fair point about Taylor though, it's a bit precious for NI fans to take some sort of moral high ground when they're using that kink in the rules on eligibility.

[cavan_fan]

I'm assuming that reference was down to the fact that you are also an Ulsterman rather then the annoying habit some have of refering to Notern Ireland as Ulster when it only consists of 2/3rds of the province.


Yes it always irritated me about 'Ulster says No' that no-one asked me. Ulster of course has a Nationalist majority.

[NeilMcD]

As with all these things, its the people who are rubbing things in on either side who are letting the side down. A mature debate with no childish comments will achieve nothing. I can see how it will polarise the football community up the north but I am sure it was like that anyway.

Excuse my ignorance but why could Martin O Neill and Gerry Armstrong and Pat Jennings play for the north and not the likes of Darron Gibson. Surely if you are truly nationalist or repbulican, playing for the Republic of Ireland in an exceptance of partition.

[EalingGreen]

Out of interest, say a unionist family living on Donegal or Cavan (or even Cork or Dublin) since partition who still participate in the 12th July marches that still go on in that part of the 26 counties produced a son who turned out to be an exceptional player and wanted to play for NI. Would you accept him as your player or turn him away?

Unless he had a grandparent born before 1921 (increasingly unlikely), had a parent or grandparent born in NI since 1921, or had himself lived continuously in NI for at least two years, we would not pick him, since he has no connection, for eligibility purposes, with us.

His politics or personal aspirations don't come into it, either. Possibly the most committed NI fan I've ever met is an Englishman called Shaun. Many years ago, when Albania was still completely closed to the West, he realised he could fulfil a long-held ambition to visit that country by accompanying the NI football team who were drawn in the same qualifying Group as them (couldn't get a Visa any other way).

As it happens, this (poor, deluded ;)) chap rather enjoyed the experience for the football as well as the travel, and hasn't missed a single NI match since, home or away! He invariably dresses from head-to-toe in green and white, much to the amusement of the NI fans, and the bemusement of the opposing fans! He's even written a book on his experiences.

But if ever he or his son were good enough to represent NI, we couldn't accept him, since even though his Passport is from the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", he doesn't have the necessary connection to be eligible.

[geysir]

Excuse my ignorance but why could Martin O Neill and Gerry Armstrong and Pat Jennings play for the north and not the likes of Darron Gibson. Surely if you are truly nationalist or repbulican, playing for the Republic of Ireland in an exceptance of partition.

There was a gentleman's agreement. No so called poaching was allowed. A gentleman's agreement prevented the FAI from approaching Pat Jennings etc.
Brian Kerr, it is alleged, responded to pleas of young lads wanting to declare for the Republic.
Not many will want to declare I'd imagine but a few good ones will be a loss to the IFA.

[Dodge]

"Ireland", maybe but most definitely NOT "anywhere in Britain", for two reasons. First, this FIFA Proposal appears specifically to refer only to players born in Ireland. Second, there is already in place an Agreement between the four British Associations which prevents this (an Agreement recognised by FIFA, btw)

Why the quotes around "Ireland"? Are you saying I was incorrect to use the name of the state? And I deliberately used the term "legally" meaning if NI decided to pick a player born in England and with no connection to NI, there is nothing FIFA can do to stop it

[EalingGreen]

I'm assuming that reference was down to the fact that you are also an Ulsterman rather then the annoying habit some have of refering to Notern Ireland as Ulster when it only consists of 2/3rds of the province.

Fair point about Taylor though, it's a bit precious for NI fans to take some sort of moral high ground when they're using that kink in the rules on eligibility.

If it's my use of the "Ulsterman" tag you refer to, I was only having a laugh with (my fellow Ulsterman) Cavanman - hence the wee wink.

As for Taylor, our selection of him within the Rules as they stood then was no more unacceptable or unethical than e.g. the FAI selecting players under the "Granny Rule" who couldn't previously have identified Ireland on a map of Ireland!

However, following the Qatari/Brazilian affair, FIFA changed its Rules with regard to eligibility, so that the IFA considered that players otherwise eligible for NI were now being selected by another Association (FAI), in contravention of the new Rules. Therefore, they objected.

Whether they are correct in their interpretation or not, who is such a stance inconsistent?

[Superhoops]

Dont get me started on the Ulster v Northern Ireland issue!

I'm not saying that NI fans want southern rejects but you'd be surprised how you can adapt! We could offer some advice as part of the Andy Townsend course in adopted countires! Does anyone in NI really think they were Maik Taylor's first choice?

Whats this southern your keep referring to? Cork/Kerry?? :confused:

If you mean from the Republic say so. I hate the term 'Southern Ireland' when it is used to encompass the Republic. It is bad enough hearing it from Brits and Yanks, but not from our own.

Rant over !!!! :(

[geysir]

Why the quotes around "Ireland"? Are you saying I was incorrect to use the name of the state? And I deliberately used the term "legally" meaning if NI decided to pick a player born in England and with no connection to NI, there is nothing FIFA can do to stop it
There is an agreement lodged with FIFA in 2003 by the 4 UK "home countries" that the Annex criteria be applied to footballers in deciding which team they can declare for.

[Dodge]

Whether they are correct in their interpretation or not, who is such a stance inconsistent?

Because the point of the rule was not to stop players with legitimate claims to dual nationality from representing their country of choice. It was not intended to effect existing arrangements.

The intention of the rule was to stop people being paid to change nationality. You obviously know the situation regarding Irish/British citizens so you can quit playing the dumb innocent here

[Dodge]

There is an agreement lodged with FIFA in 2003 by the 4 UK "home countries" that the Annex criteria be applied to footballers in deciding which team they can declare for.

My mistake. apologies so

[paul_oshea]

Whats this southern your keep referring to? Cork/Kerry?? :confused:

If you mean from the Republic say so. I hate the term 'Southern Ireland' when it is used to encompass the Republic. It is bad enough hearing it from Brits and Yanks, but not from our own.

Rant over !!!! :(

Ya I have a point of doing this too....especially to the brits. I remember my sister took great issue* with a scottish busker in germany about 10 - 15 years ago and that memory has stayed with me ever since. She simply replied "No, the west of Ireland", to the question "Are you from southern Ireland?"

Issue after the above answer ;)