LOI in Europe 2023

[yurt]

Couldn't wait any longer to see the return of what is annually my favorite thread.

Larne clinching the league up north has meant that Shamrock Rovers are now guaranteed to be seeded in CLQ1. Looks like there will be some strong outfits in the other side of the draw, Hacken of Sweden are already there for example.

If you haven't visited before I recommend spending some time on Bert's website to learn everything there is to know about seeding and the co-efficient calculations; https://kassiesa.net/uefa/index.html

Dundalk look set to be seeded for the first 3 rounds in the ECL should they manage to make it. Pats and Derry will be unseeded from the outset.

[brendy_éire]

Been keeping an eye on that excellent site for the past month or so, is there a possibility for Derry to go into the second round of the ECL? Ireland is ranked 40th, with 39th's (and aboves) cup winners going into the ECL second round.
Last season, it was 41th and above.
Is it a case of waiting to see who wins this year's CL/EL/ECL, to see if the slots for the winners for those competitions are freed up by the winners already qualifying via their domestic competition?

[pineapple stu]

One interesting thing on next year's European runs I hadn't realised - the new Swiss format extended group stage for the CL applies down the line too.

So if an LoI team can get into the EL groups, it's eight games, not six. And there's four extra teams getting to the Europa and the Conference League groups, which can't hurt. The Conference League will remain just six games in the group stage though

Not yet sure how the Swiss system will work, but I think it means the end of group-stage draws - but do clubs get a fortnight's (or less) notice of their next opponents based on their previous round result? That's what it sounds like, but it seems impractical

[oriel]

Couldn't wait any longer to see the return of what is annually my favorite thread.

Larne clinching the league up north has meant that Shamrock Rovers are now guaranteed to be seeded in CLQ1. Looks like there will be some strong outfits in the other side of the draw, Hacken of Sweden are already there for example.

If you haven't visited before I recommend spending some time on Bert's website to learn everything there is to know about seeding and the co-efficient calculations; https://kassiesa.net/uefa/index.html

Dundalk look set to be seeded for the first 3 rounds in the ECL should they manage to make it. Pats and Derry will be unseeded from the outset.

With a coefficient of 8.5 we will def be seeded in 2 rounds, that's not in question, R3 (if we make it past R1 and 2 of course !) not fully sure seeding, its probable but not confirmed, still need to see a good few leagues finishing before, but good chance.

Obviously on current form / constant injuries wouldn't be holding out too much hope, but lets say any club with 8.5 and if they do get to R3, win that and its the play off, doors then open for a group stage and 3m, but that's winning through 4 rounds, 8 games, that's a lot of football for things to go wrong and to have off days plus bigger clubs will enter the fray in R3 and might even be in the unseeded side, Vitesse Arnhem were that animal in 2021.

That said the high coefficient will help as means starting out v Wales / Andora / Gibraltar etc.

[refjohn]

Not yet sure how the Swiss system will work, but I think it means the end of group-stage draws - but do clubs get a fortnight's (or less) notice of their next opponents based on their previous round result? That's what it sounds like, but it seems impractical

From playing football manager....

I think they split sides into 4 pots and you get drawn against 2 teams in each pot - so in theory everyone plays 2 of the strongest, 2 of the weakest and 4 in the middle..... Am sure there will be some 'draws of death' based on the seedings and draw.

[pineapple stu]

So that means you only play each team once then?

[yurt]

The seedings for UCL Q1 are pretty much set now. Just a matter of seeing who come through the prelim round and who wins in Armenia and Albania. Potential opponents are:



Lincoln Red Imps
KI Klaksvik
CL-PR *p
Dinamo Tbilisi
Raków Czestochowa
Aris Limassol
BK Häcken
Farul Constanta
CH Alb 4.000 - 5.000
Valmieras FK
FC Ballkani
Larne FC
CH Arm
Hamrun Spartans
Swift Hesperange
FC Struga


The way the seeding are weighted towards consistent champions means that there are some strong teams in the unseeded side. I would split the potential opponents into 3 groups.

Good: Struga, Hamrun, Larne, Albanians, Tbilisi, Klaksvik, LRI, prelim qualifiers x2.

Bad: Armenians, Ballkani and Valmieras.

Ugly: Rakow, Limassol, Hacken and Farul.

As always with these things it's the luck of the draw. Rovers have got a relatively soft ride with draws the past couple seasons so hopefully that will continue. They've put themselves in a good position to get a winnable tie.

This tie is by far the most important from an LOI co-efficient POV. Getting through guarantees Rovers an additional 4 games via EL route. Losing means they are straight into ECL qualification with no further safety nets after a loss.

[oriel]

Dundalk are def seeded in R1, and also will be R2 if we make it, below is the list we can draw, in bold is yet to be seeded and of course the other LOI clubs we can't draw but def unseeded.

Would love to go to Gibraltar to the magnificently names Brunos Magpies, also closer to home Penybont FC who are based in Brigend mid way between Swansea and Cardiff would be fun too, easy travel.

NI Clubs would be a drag, we only ever drew one and that was a disaster, infamous game v Linfield in 1979 with the 'away' leg played in Netherlands.


Georgia (country) Dinamo Batumi
Andorra Inter Club d'Escaldes
Northern Ireland Crusaders
Estonia Paide Linnameeskond
Georgia (country) Torpedo Kutaisi
Slovakia Winners of 2022–23 Slovak First Football League play-off
Moldova Runners-up of 2022–23 Moldovan Super Liga
Bosnia and Herzegovina Fourth place of 2022–23 Premier League of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Armenia Winners of 2022–23 Armenian Cup
Albania Winners of 2022–23 Albanian Cup
Albania Runners-up of 2022–23 Kategoria Superiore
Estonia Winners of 2022–23 Estonian Cup
San Marino Winners of 2022–23 Coppa Titano
Iceland Víkingur Reykjavík
Republic of Ireland St Patrick's Athletic
Faroe Islands Víkingur
Republic of Ireland Derry City
North Macedonia Makedonija
Lithuania Panev?žys
Finland Honka
Malta Balzan
Moldova Zimbru Chi?in?u
Kosovo Gjilani
Finland Haka
Georgia (country) Dila Gori
Malta Birkirkara
Northern Ireland Glentoran
Lithuania Hegelmann
Belarus Isloch Minsk Raion
Iceland KA
Albania Egnatia
Wales Penybont
Wales Haverfordwest County
Gibraltar Bruno's Magpies
San Marino Cosmos
Montenegro Winners of 2022–23 Montenegrin Cup

[oriel]

The seedings for UCL Q1 are pretty much set now. Just a matter of seeing who come through the prelim round and who wins in Armenia and Albania. Potential opponents are:



Lincoln Red Imps
KI Klaksvik
CL-PR *p
Dinamo Tbilisi
Raków Czestochowa
Aris Limassol
BK Häcken
Farul Constanta
CH Alb 4.000 - 5.000
Valmieras FK
FC Ballkani
Larne FC
CH Arm
Hamrun Spartans
Swift Hesperange
FC Struga


The way the seeding are weighted towards consistent champions means that there are some strong teams in the unseeded side. I would split the potential opponents into 3 groups.

Good: Struga, Hamrun, Larne, Albanians, Tbilisi, Klaksvik, LRI, prelim qualifiers x2.

Bad: Armenians, Ballkani and Valmieras.

Ugly: Rakow, Limassol, Hacken and Farul.

As always with these things it's the luck of the draw. Rovers have got a relatively soft ride with draws the past couple seasons so hopefully that will continue. They've put themselves in a good position to get a winnable tie.

This tie is by far the most important from an LOI co-efficient POV. Getting through guarantees Rovers an additional 4 games via EL route. Losing means they are straight into ECL qualification with no further safety nets after a loss.


I would be thinking by far the two to avoid there for Rovers and probably in order would be Raków Czestochowa (first time Polish Champions 2022/23) and then Hacken - Swedish cup winners 2023 and champions from 2022, both fall into the 'no mugs' category, Limassol too would be a very tough outcome.

[Kiki Balboa]

If I read the Country coefficients correctly, if we score the same as last year, and everybody else keeps their average, due to us losing a poor year, we might end up in ranked 30th?

Right on the Fai's schedule....

---------

Considering how tight the league is this year, and how much Rovers won it last, it still must be somewhat fustrating how conservative Rovers were in Europe. Much better chance last year for this Rovers team to finally do put in a Eurpean performance. Rovers will have more reasons this year to focus on league than Europe over last year, considering its a lot tighter. Rovers always had the talent, as shown by their home performances.

[nigel-harps1954]

Ten wins and three draws across the board last year. Hard to see Irish clubs replicate that this year. A lot depends on the draw.

[outspoken]

If I read the Country coefficients correctly, if we score the same as last year, and everybody else keeps their average, due to us losing a poor year, we might end up in ranked 30th?

Right on the Fai's schedule....

---------

Considering how tight the league is this year, and how much Rovers won it last, it still must be somewhat fustrating how conservative Rovers were in Europe. Much better chance last year for this Rovers team to finally do put in a Eurpean performance. Rovers will have more reasons this year to focus on league than Europe over last year, considering its a lot tighter. Rovers always had the talent, as shown by their home performances.

Scandalous to think that was included in the FAI's long term plan with absolutely zero mention of how they are going to support us reaching that point.

Should we end up in the top 30 they'll tick that off and chalk it up as a win for the association while at the same time we've still no NT or proper league sponsor and they missed their target of 2023 for the third tier. They are getting a very easy ride just because JD is gone imo

[pineapple stu]

Ten wins and three draws across the board last year. Hard to see Irish clubs replicate that this year. A lot depends on the draw.
Couple of wins in dead rubbers too - plus of course a million quid's worth of talent has left the league since then. And was there more "easy" draws than might have been expected (in terms of who else was in the pool)?

But let's see how it goes I guess. Dundalk are the obvious weak link, but the others seem to be doing ok. Six wins in seven for Derry, nine wins in 11 for Rovers, even Pat's turning things around a bit.

[EatYerGreens]

Couple of wins in dead rubbers too - plus of course a million quid's worth of talent has left the league since then. And was there more "easy" draws than might have been expected (in terms of who else was in the pool)?

But let's see how it goes I guess. Dundalk are the obvious weak link, but the others seem to be doing ok. Six wins in seven for Derry, nine wins in 11 for Rovers, even Pat's turning things around a bit.

I'd definitely be worried about Dundalk. Though their seeding will be obviously be a big help to them (or should in theory anyway).

Rovers tend to be pretty steady in Europe, and you'd expect would be again here. A couple of rounds of progress over all would be the minimum expectation. Pats had the good run last year which will hold them in good stead, though will probably need a lucky draw to progress agan now.

I'd be nervous enough about Derry. Apart from that great run 20yrs ago under Stephen Kenny, they've had a fairly mediocre record in Europe for years tbh. Avoiding a tough first round draw will be key to them, as they always seem to underwhelm at this level.

[brendy_éire]

NI Clubs would be a drag, we only ever drew one and that was a disaster, infamous game v Linfield in 1979 with the 'away' leg played in Netherlands.

Why a drag? Handy, very cheap away match, with a decent chance of winning.

[Kiki Balboa]

Qualifying for the group stages of the Conference should be the expectation really from here out for the League winners due the recent changes. LOI teams have a good chance of only having to win against teams ranked below them to qualify. Champions only play other Champions, and considering how many spots there are for Champions across the 3 competitions, its really in our favour. You need to be bounced out of three competitions not to get into it. If that happens, there really wouldn't be any excuses. Thats including if Derry or anyone else win the league for next year.

Bit weird that Dundalk is to be singled out, considering that we will be seeded. You have to remember all the players who are unfit and half-fit playing for us at the moment. They return, we would be a different team.

[sbgawa]

Qualifying for the group stages of the Conference should be the expectation really from here out for the League winners due the recent changes. LOI teams have a good chance of only having to win against teams ranked below them to qualify. Champions only play other Champions, and considering how many spots there are for Champions across the 3 competitions, its really in our favour. You need to be bounced out of three competitions not to get into it. If that happens, there really wouldn't be any excuses. Thats including if Derry or anyone else win the league for next year.

Bit weird that Dundalk is to be singled out, considering that we will be seeded. You have to remember all the players who are unfit and half-fit playing for us at the moment. They return, we would be a different team.

I think luck of the draw is still huge.
Rovers could draw the Polish or Swedish champions in Rd 1 and would be massive underdogs. Lose and you drop down to the Conference second round which means you have to win 3 rounds in a row to get groups.
On the other hand win the first round with a handy draw , TNS . Imps etc and you have 3 chances with only 1 win required.

I think its probably fair to say that expectations for LOI champs should be to qualify for groups provided they win the first round match or at least get a handy enough draw.

[Philosophizer]

I think luck of the draw is still huge.
Exactly this.
Our champions could draw the champs of a stronger league with an annual budget of 30-40 mill and its probably curtains after game 1.
Admittedly the chances of drawing a team that strong is only 20-30% so hopefully you’d avoid them most years, but still it will probably happen some years.
I know the intro of the champions route definitely has created more opportunities but expecting a LOI team in the group stages every year is a bit ott.
If I was offered an Irish team into the groups stages one year out of every 2 I’d take the hand off.

[Real ale Madrid]

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=FB41E3B5AA1A44FE!4443&ithint=file%2cxlsx&authkey=!AJJHZbWEiHqbZgw

Live rankings here.

[pineapple stu]

If I was offered an Irish team into the groups stages one year out of every 2 I’d take the hand off.
Every second year seems quite reasonable alright. And even that's a great opportunity compared with previously.

[brendy_éire]

I'd be nervous enough about Derry. Apart from that great run 20yrs ago under Stephen Kenny, they've had a fairly mediocre record in Europe for years tbh. Avoiding a tough first round draw will be key to them, as they always seem to underwhelm at this level.

I'd agree with that, we're certainly hit and miss. Pick of the possibile opponents are Connah's Quay. Riga and Dudelange are there at the other end of the scale, who would beat us comfortably.

[EatYerGreens]

I'd agree with that, we're certainly hit and miss. Pick of the possibile opponents are Connah's Quay. Riga and Dudelange are there at the other end of the scale, who would beat us comfortably.

Cpnnah's Quay would be a handy trip. Is their stadium permissable for European fixtures? I know a few of the Welsh ones aren't.

[2 Year Contract]

Cpnnah's Quay would be a handy trip. Is their stadium permissable for European fixtures? I know a few of the Welsh ones aren't.
It doesn’t appear to be. According to wiki it’s only a 1,000 capacity ground. In 2021 they played their 2 European games at Aberystwyth's ground, while in 2020 they played one tie in Cardiff City's stadium and another in Wrexham's (both behind closed doors due to covid). And in 2019 they faced Kilmarnock in Rhyl's ground. So overall they don’t seem to have one set ‘home away from home’ for European fixtures

[Kiki Balboa]

List of the 17 out of 54 League Champions that did not qualify for any of the 3 group stages last year:




La Fiorita - San Marino
The New Saints - Wales
Sutjeska Nikši? - Montenegro
FCI Levadia - Estonia
Tirana - Albania
Dinamo Batumi - Georgia
Inter Club d'Escaldes - Andorra
Lincoln Red Imps - Gibraltar
Víkingur Reykjavík - Iceland
KÍ Klaksvík - Faroe Islands
Tobol - Kazakhstan
Shakhtyor Soligorsk - Belarus
Linfield - Northern Ireland
F91 Dudelange - Luxembourg
Shkupi - North Macedonia
Zrinjski Mostar - Bosnia and Herzegovina
Maribor - Slovenia

Our league Champions just have to be better than roughly this group of teams, and apart from Maribor, they should be favourites against each of them. Hardly the strongest of teams. Its really should be expectation that our Champions then qualify for a group stage - with years it doesnt happen being seen as a bad performance. Gone are the days you needed a miracle against Kyiv, Molde, or Legia Warsaw. The new rules benefit a country like Ireland nearly the most.

Obvisoulsy depends on seedings and draws, esp for the first round its important to be seeded. But remember Rovers were comfortably in Pot 3 last year too - there are three bits of the cherry to get it right, only needing to win a second tie if you win the first.

[placid casual]

I would hazard an educated guess that Rovers priorities for this year would go in the following descending order:

-4 in a row ( silverware & history)
-win 1st tie in Europe (finances)
-win the FAI cup (silverware)
-qualify for group stages of Europe ( finances, prestige, co-efficient)

as for other teams i think dundalk should take advantage of seeding and get through 1 round.
derry were poor in Europe last year and the pitch remains a leveller , especially against euro teams
pats are such a dark horse in Europe its hard to know what to expect from them- for me the were the most impressive LOI team in Europe last year, based on their opposition

[Philosophizer]

List of the 17 out of 54 League Champions that did not qualify for any group stages:

Didn’t qualify for a group stage ever??
I think Maribor and Soligorsk have both been in group stages…

[sbgawa]

List of the 17 out of 54 League Champions that did not qualify for any group stages:




La Fiorita - San Marino
The New Saints - Wales
Sutjeska Nikši? - Montenegro
FCI Levadia - Estonia
Tirana - Albania
Dinamo Batumi - Georgia
Inter Club d'Escaldes - Andorra
Lincoln Red Imps - Gibraltar
Víkingur Reykjavík - Iceland
KÍ Klaksvík - Faroe Islands
Tobol - Kazakhstan
Shakhtyor Soligorsk - Belarus
Linfield - Northern Ireland
F91 Dudelange - Luxembourg
Shkupi - North Macedonia
Zrinjski Mostar - Bosnia and Herzegovina
Maribor - Slovenia

Our league Champions just have to be better than roughly this group of teams, and apart from Maribor, they should be favourites against each of them. Hardly the strongest of teams. Its really should be expectation that our Champions then qualify for a group stage - with years it doesnt happen being seen as a bad performance. Gone are the days you needed a miracle against Kyiv, Molde, or Legia Warsaw. The new rules benefit a country like Ireland nearly the most.

Obvisoulsy depends on seedings and draws, esp for the first round its important to be seeded. But remember Rovers were comfortably in Pot 3 last year too - there are three bits of the cherry to get it right, only needing to win a second tie if you win the first.

It's not about beating those teams it's about beating the teams that beat them to make group stages

[Kiki Balboa]

Didn’t qualify for a group stage ever??
I think Maribor and Soligorsk have both been in group stages…

Didnt qualify last year.

[oriel]

Qualifying for the group stages of the Conference should be the expectation really from here out for the League winners due the recent changes. LOI teams have a good chance of only having to win against teams ranked below them to qualify. Champions only play other Champions, and considering how many spots there are for Champions across the 3 competitions, its really in our favour. You need to be bounced out of three competitions not to get into it. If that happens, there really wouldn't be any excuses. Thats including if Derry or anyone else win the league for next year.

Bit weird that Dundalk is to be singled out, considering that we will be seeded. You have to remember all the players who are unfit and half-fit playing for us at the moment. They return, we would be a different team.

Thought same myself and not forgetting a much stronger Derry City lost home and away (0-4 agg) and exited in the first round last year.

For this year considering when mini groups of 5 are made it should be 'fairly' regionalised and good chance getting Welsh or NI, also seeded in 2nd round providing of course we make it. On the negative side though is current form, but you would hope likes of Boyle / Sloggett / Annesely and maybe Benson will all be back then, and if we can retain the two loans who expire mid-season (Williams and Tulloch), that will add to depth which is running on fumes at the min.

As ever it all depends on the draw, seeding usually helps esp in earlier rounds, but it didn't in R3 in 2021 when we drew unseeded Vitesse Arnhem, prob should have beaten them away (2-2) but as said many times before, we had Abibi in nets then.

[Philosophizer]

As ever it all depends on the draw, seeding usually helps esp in earlier rounds, but it didn't in R3 in 2021 when we drew unseeded Vitesse Arnhem, prob should have beaten them away (2-2) but as said many times before, we had Abibi in nets then.
Didn’t you also have a calamity at CB that game. Zahibo was it? Think that was the game he gifted a goal.
Whatever about the away leg, you battered them in the home tie.

[pineapple stu]

Bit weird that Dundalk is to be singled out, considering that we will be seeded. You have to remember all the players who are unfit and half-fit playing for us at the moment. They return, we would be a different team.


On the negative side though is current form, but you would hope likes of Boyle / Sloggett / Annesely and maybe Benson will all be back then, and if we can retain the two loans who expire mid-season (Williams and Tulloch), that will add to depth which is running on fumes at the min.
How is it a bit weird that the side in iffy form hit by injuries, with a squad running on fumes and players maybe leaving in the next month would be the obvious weak link?

[brendy_éire]

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=FB41E3B5AA1A44FE!4443&ithint=file%2cxlsx&authkey=!AJJHZbWEiHqbZgw

Live rankings here.

That spreadsheet has Derry City in the 2nd round. Not sure what's that's based on. Bert Kassies is showing 1st round. Would be happy enough to get straight into the 2nd round, but the chances of getting beyond that would be slim.

[Real ale Madrid]

That spreadsheet has Derry City in the 2nd round. Not sure what's that's based on. Bert Kassies is showing 1st round. Would be happy enough to get straight into the 2nd round, but the chances of getting beyond that would be slim.

Ireland ranked 40th and up to 39th get Cup Winners into second round. Might be an error.

[brendy_éire]

Ireland ranked 40th and up to 39th get Cup Winners into second round. Might be an error.

Maybe. Last year, 41st and above got into the 2nd round. Could have something to do with who wins the competitors this year, and whether they need the tournament holder spots.

[pineapple stu]

Russia and Liechtenstein could skew things too? Wiki is saying Cup winners from 20-39 and up start in the second round too though.

[ger121]

Didn’t Pats start in Round 2 last year?

[pineapple stu]

They did, yeah. Wiki says the Cup winners from 42 down started in the first round last year. But this year it's 40 down.

[Kiki Balboa]

How is it a bit weird that the side in iffy form hit by injuries, with a squad running on fumes and players maybe leaving in the next month would be the obvious weak link?

We lost once in the last 8 games (which was away to Derry), dispite missing 4 or 5 starters.

[pineapple stu]

Fair point, but in that run ye needed injury time winners against Drogheda and Cork and couldn't beat a Shels side down to 10 men for 80 minutes. It's not great form.

[yurt]

Reckon the LOI will be scoring in the 2.5-3.5 co-efficient range for the medium term, meaning our ceiling will be about 30 in the table. I don't think it's possible to make the step up until we see the stadia improve. If we see Bohs, Derry, Sligo, etc filling bigger stadiums I think we're well placed to move up into the mid rankings.

For a long time it was just hope that a few scalps in europe will bring in money and interest into our league but now the league has become relatively mainstream and I don't really think the euro success has much to do with it. The base support is now there that if we can get the infrastructure in place I think we're well placed to solidify ourselves as a top 20-30 league in the next decade or two.

[oriel]

Fair point, but in that run ye needed injury time winners against Drogheda and Cork and couldn't beat a Shels side down to 10 men for 80 minutes. It's not great form.

Ah i think in hindsight its probably a fair shout, this season's Dundalk is a mixed bag, performances can go from brilliant in one half, playing ok yet winning 5-0 (Pats at home) to playing poor yet still somehow winning games (Drogs H+A, and possibly Sligo A are 3 examples) to being pure awful (Derry away).

God knows what europe will bring, should be strong enough to get to round 2, then if no big injury list should be in with a decent chance in R2, but that's prob our limits all of course draw dependent.

Then again also all depends on what type of Dundalk turns up too.

[Real ale Madrid]

Maybe. Last year, 41st and above got into the 2nd round. Could have something to do with who wins the competitors this year, and whether they need the tournament holder spots.


Russia and Liechtenstein could skew things too? Wiki is saying Cup winners from 20-39 and up start in the second round too though.

Anything to do with Ukraine not holding a cup competition this year - I see that nearly everyone is up a spot in the Seedings page but Bert Kassies doesn't comment.

[EalingGreen]

Taken from another site:

https://www.irishleaguesupporters.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20956&d=1685393292

Sorry about the need to click (can't upload image itself), but assuming that is correct and up-to-date, then Dundalk (and Linfield and Crusaders) are seeded, while St.Pats and Derry (and Glentoran) are unseeded.

[brendy_éire]

Anything to do with Ukraine not holding a cup competition this year - I see that nearly everyone is up a spot in the Seedings page but Bert Kassies doesn't comment.

Their cup slot is being moved to the league.

Read that if Roma win the EL tonight, and finish sixth or above in Serie A, we get bumped up a round. Not particularly hopeful of that happening, mind.
@irishuefacoeff has the info on twitter.

[TonyD]

pats are such a dark horse in Europe its hard to know what to expect from them- for me the were the most impressive LOI team in Europe last year, based on their opposition

I think an awful lot depends on us getting some defenders back from injury, particularly Joe Redmond. I’d also be worried about a lack of real firepower upfront, though we do have a bit of pace with Jake Mulraney and Serge. We did do well last year, still feel hard done by with the penalty decision that put us out.

[Philosophizer]

Pats were excellent last year in Europe. When you have a team like CSKA giving an exhibition in time wasting for the last 10 mins of a tie you know you’ve given them a game.

[Philosophizer]

But I suspect it will be a tougher task this year for them with the defensive injury crisis. Hopefully Daly will be able to bring in some reinforcements during the break.

[Philosophizer]

Vinny Perth was talking on OTB and mentioned how in previous years the league winners usually had about 38-40 points at this stage.
It’s not a great sign going into Europe that our top teams have all had patchy form so far this year but hopefully they can still pull some form out of the bag for the European ties.

[TonyD]

But I suspect it will be a tougher task this year for them with the defensive injury crisis. Hopefully Daly will be able to bring in some reinforcements during the break.

And we had another centre back go off injured last night (Jay McGrath) It’s getting worrying. We may need to bring in bodies during the break, but that’s always a bit of a shot in the dark.

[Dave77]

Is draw for europe today?