All-Ireland League Thread

[oriel]

It’s not just the link that most NI teams are dominated by one side, it’s that ALL are apart from Cliftonville. Newry and Warrenpoint are the only other clubs not in that group, but far too small for consideration for AIL and even to make impact in NI.

The IL therefore is 90% Protestant / Unionist supported, I get the thinking, and if you want to put a label on, most within these groups would probably have voted for brexit too.

In my view most would appear to be happy to remain with their 3pm Sat afternoon / winter season, only the allure of guaranteed cash will entice Linfield or Glentoran away.

Finally I’ve nothing against the IL, I enjoy watching the goals most sat at 5pm, just calling it out as I see it, they don’t appear to want to progress, which is amazing given the monies in Europe alone, yet these are pre season games for them, and their champions manager was on holiday not once but twice in recent years for first leg games.

The playing of GSTQ at their cup final, and especially v Cliftonville is / was just ridiculous, how are they meant to reach out to the other half with this going on?

[Mr A]

The thing is- the IL is progressing. Slowly, steadily facilities and crowds are improving and they have a degree of stability that we can only dream of. Plus their league is competitive whereas in recent years ours isn't. There is a tendency to look down on them in the LOI, but it isn't always warranted.

[bohsmug]

The thing is- the IL is progressing. Slowly, steadily facilities and crowds are improving and they have a degree of stability that we can only dream of. Plus their league is competitive whereas in recent years ours isn't. There is a tendency to look down on them in the LOI, but it isn't always warranted.

It seems to be in a better place alright. There'll be another period of ground improvements now that the grants are available to them again.

[oriel]

Progressing in terms of more grounds improved almost all by grants, and that's fine.

Standard of recent games I saw on tv and often some unfit looking players wouldn't back up progressing quality, nor would the 7-1 hammering Linfield took in the Unite Cup in November.

The top of the table is tight, makes for competitive games, but not sure crowds are increasing to reflect that, think I read last year the biggest (on avg in 2019) attendances in NI were from Derry City, 3k, open to correction on this, but almost sure Linfield average just over 2k.

[Dalymountrower]

Watch it quite a lot on TV and in Belfast when I visit in laws.
A lot of unfit players, very little intensity in the games.Has improved though.

[DCWA]

It is a very poor standard of football. Is it logical that that would level out in an AIL over a few years ?

[Mr_Parker]

Some softening of the NI stance on the Lucid proposals? It's looking like the initial version could be two separate leagues with individual national champions (presumably something like 8 or 10 team leagues with 14/18 game season) before a crossover league to determine all island champions (again similar numbers maybe 8 or 10 teams to finish with a 28 or 36 game season). https://www.the42.ie/ifa-cross-border-league-4985712-Jan2020/
It'll be interesting to see what comes out of the Hypercube study.

Softening? How do you come to that conclusion?

[outspoken]

I was at the presentation In Dundalk today, very impressive but couldn't help feel there's nothing anywhere near concrete in place. Lucid essential admitted a full AIL is a no goer with the IFA and a split league might be the best way to get this up and running at least.

I spoke to him for BTS TV afterwards, would have liked to have kept him for longer but In fairness to the group they engaged fully with the media and ran overtime so only touched on a few points with him here > https://youtu.be/ZKAhey0tr5I

[Mr_Parker]

I just can't see any grounds on which the north will agree to an All-island league.

There is small 'p' politics at play here, and a certain mentality. Football in the north is a very unionist entity - just look at the clubs in the top 3 tiers, and the areas they represent. Northern football reflects the general mindset within unionism of being happy in their own wee world and wanting as little as possible to do with the south. It's no accident that the international anthem and flag issue remains stubbornly unresolved.

There are of course lots of coherent and sensible arguments against an AIL at the moment. But even if they were addressed, it would still face the fundamental barrier I've outlined above. So I just can't see this project going anywhere in reality.

While there may be some who will object on the basis you outline, you obviously don't understand the make up of football in the North if you think that would be a major factor. Like with football everywhere, it will always boil down to money.

[Mr_Parker]

Progressing in terms of more grounds improved almost all by grants, and that's fine.

Standard of recent games I saw on tv and often some unfit looking players wouldn't back up progressing quality, nor would the 7-1 hammering Linfield took in the Unite Cup in November.

The top of the table is tight, makes for competitive games, but not sure crowds are increasing to reflect that, think I read last year the biggest (on avg in 2019) attendances in NI were from Derry City, 3k, open to correction on this, but almost sure Linfield average just over 2k.

More people attend football in the North per head of population than they do in the South. Also to compare like for like, you would need to drop the bottom 2 clubs from the NIFL to compare the attendances of two leagues of 10 teams.

[EatYerGreens]

While there may be some who will object on the basis you outline, you obviously don't understand the make up of football in the North if you think that would be a major factor. Like with football everywhere, it will always boil down to money.

That may well be the case for the clubs themselves - but not the fans. And the fans own/run a number of clubs there, and have understandable influence at other clubs.

Take Crusaders, who as a club have been pro the AIL concept (and with the smallest fan-base of Belfast's 4 main clubs, are usually quite open to new ways to generate income). As they're fan-owned, however, I suspect they would struggle to get approval to formally vote to back an AIL if such a vote were ever held. I can't see Linfield fans backing an AIL either, so it would be brave of their club to support one too if it ever came to it. Ballymena are another one in the same boat.

Politics is never far from the surface in most things in NI. Including football. Again - just look at the nonsense re anthems and flags there at Internationals/Cup Finals. The IFA is happy to continue alienating half the population of NI with their stance on the international team, when they would create more revenue for themselves with a different approach (beyond an initial short-term backlash from the usual loyalists angry at any changes). Which proves that it isn't just about money at all.

It's hard to deny that there really is an 'ourselves alone' mentality at play in the Irish League.

[A N Mouse]

Anyone that attended one of these events, as far as fans go were there many skeptics, or was it all choir?

Ok seems they had some nice charts and graphs this time, but I'm not hearing anything to change my initial impression that it's all a pipe dream. Ollie feckin Byrne with two whole leagues:
'if we can qualify regularly for CL group stages we're set'.
Yeah, how we going to get there?
'Money'
where's the money going to come from?
'Well I have a friend'
And what if the money runs out before we reach the promised land?
'...'

Well here's the thing in order to get anywhere near regular CL group stages partipication we need to first get to stage were all our European representatives are competitive, that is could be expected to win through at least one round. Now despite what's regularly on the European thread we're a way off that. We've been hovering between two and three competitive teams for last decade. In order to get three and four teams we need some stability.

Now the nifl has some stability, the same teams regularly qualifying for Europe helps the team coefficient, means seeding and 'easier' draws. Despite the ridicule about not taking europe seriously they're almost at two competitive teams, and is it this year they only have three teams so couple of results is bigger boost to country coefficient.

A joint league were somehow 50% of teams compete in Europe might conceivably produce regular CL qualifiers, but it would be at the expense of the rest of the league. It would never produce eight competitive teams, as the kind of stability you need - five or six teams for four places over four or five years - would make for a boring league, and the much more likely scenario would be getting on for 16 teams for 8 places over 5 years. Why would anyone give up the status quo for that? And that's assuming some all euro places are kept.

[outspoken]

Anyone that attended one of these events, as far as fans go were there many skeptics, or was it all choir?

Ok seems they had some nice charts and graphs this time, but I'm not hearing anything to change my initial impression that it's all a pipe dream. Ollie feckin Byrne with two whole leagues:
'if we can qualify regularly for CL group stages we're set'.
Yeah, how we going to get there?
'Money'
where's the money going to come from?
'Well I have a friend'
And what if the money runs out before we reach the promised land?
'...'

Well here's the thing in order to get anywhere near regular CL group stages partipication we need to first get to stage were all our European representatives are competitive, that is could be expected to win through at least one round. Now despite what's regularly on the European thread we're a way off that. We've been hovering between two and three competitive teams for last decade. In order to get three and four teams we need some stability.

Now the nifl has some stability, the same teams regularly qualifying for Europe helps the team coefficient, means seeding and 'easier' draws. Despite the ridicule about not taking europe seriously they're almost at two competitive teams, and is it this year they only have three teams so couple of results is bigger boost to country coefficient.

A joint league were somehow 50% of teams compete in Europe might conceivably produce regular CL qualifiers, but it would be at the expense of the rest of the league. It would never produce eight competitive teams, as the kind of stability you need - five or six teams for four places over four or five years - would make for a boring league, and the much more likely scenario would be getting on for 16 teams for 8 places over 5 years. Why would anyone give up the status quo for that? And that's assuming some all euro places are kept.

Was very few press at yesterday's event due to events at the FAI but he was most certainly challenged at times. I just left it feeling there's way too many moving parts still and that it's miles away from being something concrete.

[Mr_Parker]

That may well be the case for the clubs themselves - but not the fans. And the fans own/run a number of clubs there, and have understandable influence at other clubs.

Take Crusaders, who as a club have been pro the AIL concept (and with the smallest fan-base of Belfast's 4 main clubs, are usually quite open to new ways to generate income). As they're fan-owned, however, I suspect they would struggle to get approval to formally vote to back an AIL if such a vote were ever held. I can't see Linfield fans backing an AIL either, so it would be brave of their club to support one too if it ever came to it. Ballymena are another one in the same boat.

Politics is never far from the surface in most things in NI. Including football. Again - just look at the nonsense re anthems and flags there at Internationals/Cup Finals. The IFA is happy to continue alienating half the population of NI with their stance on the international team, when they would create more revenue for themselves with a different approach (beyond an initial short-term backlash from the usual loyalists angry at any changes). Which proves that it isn't just about money at all.

It's hard to deny that there really is an 'ourselves alone' mentality at play in the Irish League.

I'll not go down the anthem debate route as that is something else entirely and would take us way off topic. Crusaders, well as you will no little about the personalities, I wouldn't assume the route that club follows.

[Mr_Parker]

The first article I have seen that doesn't just follow narrative fed to them.

"And then, why, if there are broadcasters and partners queuing to support the idea, are there no hard facts, figures and documents to substantiate a notion that has, so far, been all about fantasy and idyllic outcomes?"

Worth a read.

https://www.dundalkdemocrat.ie/news/sport/513541/comment-all-island-league-presentation-is-exciting-but-can-it-really-withstand-scrutiny.html#.XjQ0BOfoRII.twitter

[Nesta99]

More people attend football in the North per head of population than they do in the South. Also to compare like for like, you would need to drop the bottom 2 clubs from the NIFL to compare the attendances of two leagues of 10 teams.

Per head of population is a misdirection really - the Faroe Islands have the highest % of population that attend games at >10% of a 50k population. but that does not translate to very much, especially additional necessary resources. 3k at a game draws greater revenue than 2k irrespective of the 2k being even 100% of a population in attendance. Its a bit in the ball park of the old DUP mantra of 'The majority of the majority' as if that made any difference since it was still a minority!

[EatYerGreens]

Crusaders, well as you will no little about the personalities, I wouldn't assume the route that club follows.

Yet you're more than happy to make such bold assumptions about what posters on here do or don't know. Which just makes you look a bit smug. For the record I am familiar with Mr Langhammer and some of the other 'personalities' at Crusaders. There are quite a few people on here who follow the Irish league closely and have a good handle on it all.

That article you posted up includes a quote which supports the point I'm making. That the Crusaders fans run their club and are not as keen on an AIL as many of their administrators are:

"A gathering, it was revealed, involving Crusaders supporters and Lucid’s body took place in recent months and the general sentiment appeared to reject the AIL outwardly until the supposition for a split - involving a united division for one part of the year and then the return of the present system for the other - was tabled. They would, it was stated, be more interested if this were the case".

Be careful what you presume about people you don't know.

[EatYerGreens]

Per head of population is a misdirection really - the Faroe Islands have the highest % of population that attend games at >10% of a 50k population. but that does not translate to very much, especially additional necessary resources. 3k at a game draws greater revenue than 2k irrespective of the 2k being even 100% of a population in attendance. Its a bit in the ball park of the old DUP mantra of 'The majority of the majority' as if that made any difference since it was still a minority!

That's a good point. More people attend senior football proportionately in the north than in places like the US or China. It doesn't mean a damn thing though. There's still significantly more money in the game and bigger crowds in China and US than in NI. It's a pointless stat which at first glance sounds like it should mean something, when in reality it just reflects a small population.

[Mr_Parker]

Per head of population is a misdirection really - the Faroe Islands have the highest % of population that attend games at >10% of a 50k population. but that does not translate to very much, especially additional necessary resources. 3k at a game draws greater revenue than 2k irrespective of the 2k being even 100% of a population in attendance. Its a bit in the ball park of the old DUP mantra of 'The majority of the majority' as if that made any difference since it was still a minority!

Great ramble, but doesn't change the fact.

[Mr_Parker]

Yet you're more than happy to make such bold assumptions about what posters on here do or don't know. Which just makes you look a bit smug. For the record I am familiar with Mr Langhammer and some of the other 'personalities' at Crusaders. There are quite a few people on here who follow the Irish league closely and have a good handle on it all.

That article you posted up includes a quote which supports the point I'm making. That the Crusaders fans run their club and are not as keen on an AIL as many of their administrators are:

"A gathering, it was revealed, involving Crusaders supporters and Lucid’s body took place in recent months and the general sentiment appeared to reject the AIL outwardly until the supposition for a split - involving a united division for one part of the year and then the return of the present system for the other - was tabled. They would, it was stated, be more interested if this were the case".

Be careful what you presume about people you don't know.

Thanks for pointing out that in many ways the article backs up what I was saying. Crusaders put out an official statement post the 1st Dundalk meeting, that contradicts the fans position as outlined in that article.

[Nesta99]

What it does indicate is that LoI and IL are not 'under supported' as is often the attitude (pushed by the FAI too). Both leagues are above the average proportion of a population that goes regularly to games. Sometimes, with this in mind, we can be hard on ourselves in the expectation of bigger average crowds. The point still remains though that bums on seats irrespective of per head of population is what is most relevant. There is potential, especially in LoI, for attendance growth at some clubs due to facilities being under par, but it is only potential and not a guarantee. I'm sure such stats would be considered by the likes of Peak6 if deciding on whether to invest on a new ground rather than improving slowly what is already there.

Have Linfield crowds grown significantly since the redevelopment of Windsor in to a state of the art facility, or Rovers crowds grown in proportion to the increased capacity of a modern facility in Tallaght. The 2 clubs that buck the general trend for me are Bohs and whatever they are doing off the field and Sligo whose crowds dont collapse when not at the top end of the table.

[Nesta99]

Great ramble, but doesn't change the fact.

No it doesnt change the fact either on the relvence of per head of population or that larger attendances are of greater signiicance/benefit regardles of per head of population!

Which would you rather?

[EatYerGreens]

Thanks for pointing out that in many ways the article backs up what I was saying. Crusaders put out an official statement post the 1st Dundalk meeting, that contradicts the fans position as outlined in that article.

I accept your kind apology for your smug presumptious btw :rolleyes:

[Mr_Parker]

I accept your kind apology for your smug presumptious btw :rolleyes:

Nice spin.

[EatYerGreens]

Nice spin.

At least all this explains the reputation you seem to have on that Irish League Forum on the few times I've had a look there.

[ThirdManRun]

Finalised format drawn up and delivered to clubs. Difficult to get your head around at first but seems to go some way to address most of the original worries regarding autonomy of the leagues and European places!

http://www.allislandleague.com/

[NeverFeltBetter]

Plenty to talk about with this "King of the Island" format, but one thing that jumps out: It doesn't appear as if the overall winner of this competition gets a European spot? That doesn't seem right to me.

Don't see much discussion of the second tier either, how will that work?

And you can have all of the Hypercube studies you want, but you're going to have to do better than "it is safe to say that the prize money would be a significant improvement above current levels". Improved how much? And who is paying it? And how is it being split?

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Plenty to talk about with this "King of the Island" format, but one thing that jumps out: It doesn't appear as if the overall winner of this competition gets a European spot? That doesn't seem right to me.

Don't see much discussion of the second tier either, how will that work?

And you can have all of the Hypercube studies you want, but you're going to have to do better than "it is safe to say that the prize money would be a significant improvement above current levels". Improved how much? And who is paying it? And how is it being split?

Agree on the king of the island bit it's very likely that the winner of it will also win their section but not guaranteed at all.

With regards to the prize money though they say the league going ahead is dependent on getting financial arrangements in place before proceeding that will guarantee the prize money being raised so that statements fair enough really

[redobit]

Finalised format drawn up and delivered to clubs. Difficult to get your head around at first but seems to go some way to address most of the original worries regarding autonomy of the leagues and European places!

http://www.allislandleague.com/

I always thought an AIL was just pie in the sky. Having watching that I have to say that I do think it is hitting a lot of the right balance that is needed if it was to happen. It has been very well thought out in fairness and somebody has put a huge amount of work into it. Very interesting ideas and in theory could be a runner. Getting the money tied down now would show a real statement of intent and could be the difference between swaying clubs to come on board.

[redobit]

Similar to NFL too in that there would be a 'divisional' winner in each of the LOI and NIFL (i.e. the Golden Round). Plus a 'superbowl' style title with the King of the Island competition. Im not sure if it will go anywhere to be honest but Id like to think clubs would give it a look over.

[pineapple stu]

Not the worst of ideas in fairness. I think it's important there's an easy way to unwind if prize money drops below the "required" levels. Agree though that the vagueness on funding makes out very easy to view this as another pie-in-the-sky report/suggestion that will go nowhere.

Makes you wonder if you add up all the money spent on consultants' reports on the league down the years and just spent it all on marketing it instead, where would we be?

[RathfarnhamHoop]

I must say the more I think about it the more I like the late spring to new years season too. At least when it's cold your team will be playing for something which will motivate people to still go and late march start with maybe a league cup type thing instead of friendlies in February/March with a Paddy's day final might be a good way to start the season

[oriel]

Yes would be an interesting season that, say 1st April to early Jan. Another plus, it would fill the gap for the next club who qualifies for the EL group stage, as we'll have league games during it to keep competitive, like that's going to happen anytime soon !

Joking aside that was a bit of a pain for us in 2016, last league game end of oct, cup final a week later, with a EL game away to St Petersburg in between, plus another one or two EL group games up to early Dec. I think they had to go to England to get a game, Brentford B away rings a bell.

[Real ale Madrid]

Finalised format drawn up and delivered to clubs. Difficult to get your head around at first but seems to go some way to address most of the original worries regarding autonomy of the leagues and European places!

http://www.allislandleague.com/

I love it. But then again I would. Split leagues - brilliant. Playoffs - giddy. In theory every team in the LOI Premier and First has the chance to win the overall competition - When can we start!

[EatYerGreens]

Plenty to talk about with this "King of the Island" format, but one thing that jumps out: It doesn't appear as if the overall winner of this competition gets a European spot? That doesn't seem right to me.

Which league should be expected to sacrifice a European spot for this competition ?

[pineapple stu]

The league that wins King of the Island I guess.

But the reality is they'll almost certainly by in Europe anyway.

[Nesta99]

I was hoping that UEFA might, initially at least, offer an additional European slot. Community integration via football.....? Could be a significant success story that could be 'sold' as the benefit of football. One thing though, it was mentioned that UEFA would consider panborder league integration - would this not have opened the way for Glasgows top 2 to move to the EPL?, or even through the tiers of English football. Maybe the EPL are not interested but from a commercial sense it makes sense!?

[sidewayspasser]

I was hoping that UEFA might, initially at least, offer an additional European slot.
If UEFA were to offer an additional cross-border slot, I would expect other countries would want something similar. That might require a broader decision from UEFA, not just one tailored to this island. Then you might get for example a King of the Vikings Cup for the northern countries and other cross-border competitions.

[pineapple stu]

Exactly. So that's why it's not going to happen.

[Nesta99]

Well there are some mitigating considerations that could explain away a once off - peace and reconciliation isnt the worst excuse, unless the likes of Kosovo and Serbs or the Turks and Cypriots decide to try and cosy up too....

[pineapple stu]

But that's exactly it. Spain/Gibraltar, Armenia/Azerbaijan - we're far from unique in having a local row.

UEFA won't give a tiny league on the edge of Europe an extra European spot just because they've come up with a new league format.

[Nesta99]

I'm probably being ridiculously optimistic, which is in short supply I know, but with EL2 something could be worked out. 2 domestic CL slots and if either win this Golden round the next non European qualiifier gets a berth. Or if the domestic champions dont win the final round then that place is awarded to the top side. In general I dont think we are decades away from European Leagues being formed anyway. UEFA are firefighting to keep top clubs happy with the CL closed shop to prevent a break away and the number of clubs involved in some European comps are growing. Same with internationl football expansion - generating more and more money is certainly an undertone of this trend. It's concievable to have a Nordic League or even a Celtic League in due course as smaller leagues are pushed aside and need to strengthen their stock. In saying all of this I dont expect this attempt at some AIL to succeed.

[pineapple stu]

I think optimistic is right.

EL2 is giving no extra European spots as it stands anyway. I think that says it all about the chances of the King of the Island tournament getting a bonus European spot. EL2 was a great chance to give every country one extra European spot.

[ThirdManRun]

From that I understand, it looks like the European places got LOI and IL would remain the same as they are at the moment. There’s no basis for us to be given an extra spot, let’s try get the current teams we have competing to get further in the qualifiers first!

[EatYerGreens]

The league that wins King of the Island I guess.

But the reality is they'll almost certainly by in Europe anyway.

That would be a pretty perverse incentive to leagues and to clubs though.

So what would happen if Linfield won the Irish League and the King of the Island. If it delivered no extra European slot, then that would arguably be a de-facto 'loss' of a slot to the north. And it would remove one of the big benefits of the whole competition - i.e. money, via Europe. Or if winning it guaranteed a slot to someone or league, then the north would be expected to give up a European slot under that scenario. But who to - as Linfield would already have one ?

If Institute finished 8th in the Irish League but won the King of the Island - who would they take a European slot from ? Especially if it's like now, at a time when the IL only has 3 European slots ? They can't take it off the champions or the cup-winners realistically. So presumably the team finishing 2nd in the league would lose a European slot to the team that finished 8th in the league, because that team won a cup tournament that included clubs outside of that league. It's mixing two unrelated qualification streams.

I can't see how that would all make sense. And why would the top clubs in the north or south back this, given that if anyone had to sacrifice a European slot they'd otherwise get then it would realistically be them ? It just all seems too messy.

Agree that UEFA are unlikely to give us an extra European slot just because we ask. Those things are worth a lot of money these days, and increasingly so. How could they justify to the other 50 or so nations in Europe giving just one extra out, and to us ? The rest of Europe doesn't give a sh'it about our intractable struggles and the theory that football might magically help resolve them.

[pineapple stu]

I'm not entirely sure your reading of it is correct tbh.

If Linfield won the IL and the KOTI, then there would be no loss of a European spot. Linfield would be in the CL and the other spots would go to the IL teams as per their usual way of doing things. Effectively KOTI doesn't carry a European spot in this instance.

If Stute finished 8th in the IL and won KOTI - then assuming the IL is back up to four teams soon, it's not really much different to the current situation where the team in seventh can win a play-off and get into Europe at the expense of the team in third. I don't think that's a huge deal - what has third place won? If the final European spot can be used to generate a bit more excitement around the league, I say go for it.

It's also quite difficult for Stute to win KOTI from eighth in the league as the points carry across. With the IL down to three European spots, it's a bit trickier - though I guess the argument would be that if the IL is that weak, then realistically a side outside the top two isn't going to win KOTI.

There's no sacrificing of a European spot anywhere, so that's one less reason not to back it at least. (And worth noting that there's no suggestion any European spots accrue from KOTI at the moment)

[Nesta99]

Working title or not I've already taken a dislike to the proposal simply for its muck name, KOTI doesnt make me cringe quite so much (thanks Stu). Petty but this would all need to be a slamdunk and even the working title has people switching off.

No (even minimal potential) European slot means that there has to be a serious financial package in place added to TV money to pique any interest. Its been admitted that there have only been expressions of interest so unless someone with deep pockets can start things off initially with a pledge of financing then its dead in the water if it ever had a chance. It is also a strange choice of timing when people are struggling to get their own leagues going again. Maybe they thought that needing to adapt the existing season schedules was an opportunity, or the lack of football would get people taking about a new proposal with media outlets screaming out for content, but a misjudgement I feel. It's convoluted enough as it is never mind at a time that clubs are particularly just hanging on at the moment and that's with the context of the financial norms of LoI//IL

[RathfarnhamHoop]

It is also a strange choice of timing when people are struggling to get their own leagues going again. Maybe they thought that needing to adapt the existing season schedules was an opportunity, or the lack of football would get people taking about a new proposal with media outlets screaming out for content, but a misjudgement I feel. It's convoluted enough as it is never mind at a time that clubs are particularly just hanging on at the moment and that's with the context of the financial norms of LoI//IL

Timings purely coincidental, they've been saying this was coming around now for ages now sure. Putting together all that information in one place and consulting parties involved doesn't just happen.

[Nesta99]

Well maybe they should have held the release back a bit, but I suspect they thought the timing had some advantages over a delay - it hasnt worked out that way.

[pineapple stu]

I don't know. Now's the best time for big changes such as to seasons. Even the big leagues have been talking about maybe giving a summer season a go. And lots of Irish clubs will be interested in talk of "more money" too (although it's far less likely to arrive now I think)

I think it's all pie in the sky, but it's not the worst time for pie in the sky