All-Ireland League Thread

[Charlie Darwin]

Obv better players and results etc are a huge help.

But in truth, Glens are really only attracting back fans who had drifted away during nearly a decade of dross. For instance, they had 6k for the all-ticket game at home to Linfield on Boxing Day - the maximum the Health & Safety loons would allow into The Oval. The potential for big support if/when they got their act together was always there.

Whereas Larne, for instance, are clearly attracting new (young?) support enthused by the developments which are underway at Inver Park. I hope they can sustain it.
To be fair, it's probably the first time in 50 years there's been something to do in Larne other than get the boat!

[Bucket]

Martinho, have another read of that AIL proposal 😉

[Nesta99]

Now that's what I call a proper All-Ireland League proposal....

"Advanced discussions about the introduction of an All Ireland soccer league have taken place between clubs from both sides of the border and interested stakeholders, with the intention of drafting a New Year proposal that will be too good for the FAI and IFA to refuse.

The Irish Independent has learned that top eircom League sides have been involved in secret talks with counterparts in the North and with the backing of significant third party encouragement in the hope of bringing the project to fruition.

The origins of the initiative came from meetings between the six leading eircom League full time clubs -- Cork City, Drogheda United, Derry City, St Patrick's Athletic, Bohemians and Galway United -- to discuss grievances regarding their participation agreement with the FAI and the wage cap thats coming into place next season."
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/secret-all-ireland-league-talks-at-advanced-stage-26337983.html

Wage cap? We should be allowed to spend whatever we want. I mean, what could possibly go wrong? :wink:

(Previously discussed here on this forum. In 2007.
https://foot.ie/threads/78826-Secret-All-Ireland-league-talks-at-advanced-stage?highlight=population%2C+northern+ireland+tow ns )

Ironic (or maybe desperation) that this was being pushed heavily by Drogheda. I wont do the bitter stuff on Dundalk among others being excluded at the time. My old friend Terry Collin's believed that people from North Louth was a ligitimate catchment for DUFC in the context of only having 1 Louth club in an AIL and that their new stadium would entice Dundalk fans to abandon Dundalk. There was significant money guaranteed also. Clubs soon started going pop before it had a chance with Drogs, Cork, Derry and Bohs especially (I doubt Cobhs with double relegation would have been in the mix for an invite only league... and Galway United only had a a fancy DVD pushed by a shamed Banker). A year earlier even and the money involved may have saved clubs before the pinch kicked in.

[Martinho II]

Martinho, have another read of that AIL proposal ��

Bucket had a look at DMCD piece ten years ago.Have to agree with NI clubs having too many clubs in an All Island League if proposed and it should be by the size of NI and ROI individually and they have more divisions down below it too to facilitate the other clubs that would be left out originally in the 1st place, I apologise if I jumped the gun a bit Bucket!

[EalingGreen]

I do watch the NI football regularly highlights wise but live matches wise I dont remember the IFA cup(apologises if I have title wrong) semis being on telly last year?No they weren't.

I think it's just desperation from BBC NI for something to show, at a time when new programmes aren't being made. They're probably also missing their regular Sat. a'noon coverage too, minimal though it is.

[passinginterest]

Now that's what I call a proper All-Ireland League proposal....

"Advanced discussions about the introduction of an All Ireland soccer league have taken place between clubs from both sides of the border and interested stakeholders, with the intention of drafting a New Year proposal that will be too good for the FAI and IFA to refuse.

The Irish Independent has learned that top eircom League sides have been involved in secret talks with counterparts in the North and with the backing of significant third party encouragement in the hope of bringing the project to fruition.

The origins of the initiative came from meetings between the six leading eircom League full time clubs -- Cork City, Drogheda United, Derry City, St Patrick's Athletic, Bohemians and Galway United -- to discuss grievances regarding their participation agreement with the FAI and the wage cap thats coming into place next season."
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/secret-all-ireland-league-talks-at-advanced-stage-26337983.html

Wage cap? We should be allowed to spend whatever we want. I mean, what could possibly go wrong? :wink:

(Previously discussed here on this forum. In 2007.
https://foot.ie/threads/78826-Secret-All-Ireland-league-talks-at-advanced-stage?highlight=population%2C+northern+ireland+tow ns )

The more things change eh... some good regular posters back then that haven't been seen in a long time. Funny to see Arkaga mentioned as being at the center of things, they worked out well!

[Mr_Parker]

Pedantic I know....but it's not the top 10 supported LOI clubs. There were 3 clubs in the First Division last season who averaged more than UCD in the Premier Division.

If attendances are to be compared, then per head of population is important in calculations.

[nigel-harps1954]

If attendances are to be compared, then per head of population is important in calculations.

Not sure why that's relevant, but yeah, I agree.

[EalingGreen]

If attendances are to be compared, then per head of population is important in calculations.Interesting, no doubt, but "important"?

I'm not so sure it is, tbh. To take an extreme example, Indonesia has a population of a quarter of a billion, whereas Iceland has just 300k.

Or closer to home, Burnley's is 90k (and falling), whereas Milton Keynes' is 230k (and growing).

The existence of a football culture and tradition which will support domestic football is much more important. Scotland's population, for example, is not much more than ROI, yet they have a 4 division League set-up, a decent feeder system below that and a very widespread Junior football set-up.

And even if you take away the Two Ugly Sisters, they still maintain teams like Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs etc which are a lot bigger than anything in Ireland, north or south.

Such is the importance of culture/tradition that if you don't have it, it's extremely hard to manufacture it, esp in somewhere like Ireland, where there is so much competition from Gaelic Football, Rugby and Hurling, even Cricket and Hockey, to name just team sports.

Which explains why a small town like Sligo (20k) supports a top tier football club, while Galway (80k) or Limerick (95k) struggle.

So that Dublin dominates the LOI heavily, while new clubs so regularly fail to become established (google the Parable of the Sower and the Seed).

I don't know the answer to this is, nor am I trying to score points for or against anyone, just saying it as I see it.

[Nesta99]

If attendances are to be compared, then per head of population is important in calculations.

It is also worth factoring in or a least looking at in this context, a per head of population % trend of attendances across Europe.

[EalingGreen]

It is also worth factoring in or a least looking at in this context, a per head of population % trend of attendances across Europe.
I'm not sure I understand this, but in any case, we're talking about an all-Ireland league, not an all-Europe one.

Fact is, what happens in Sweden or Turkey or Portugal etc has little bearing, if any, on what happens in Ireland.

And I still think that the key to building the domestic game here is to concentrate on football heartlands and build out from there, rather than blithely declaring: "Here's a big town/city/county without a professional football club, so let's start one here"

(There's probably a reason why they don't already have one).

[Nesta99]

There isnt a direct bearing but the consistant trend that is shown provides a benchmark. If considering per head of population, including areas of footballing tradition across UEFA, of which we are members of, interesting and pretty consistant stats on average attendances emerge. A benchmark by which attendances on this Island can be measured is useful knowledge, and even more so if pitching an AIL to money people or TV companies etc. Even if it's simply used as spin eg 'a larger percentage per head of population go to LoI games than to Serie A - think of the potential with investment and improved facilities and exposure' and so on.

The countries you mention are highly unlikely to have a direct bearing on what happens here. I dont think the same can be said in entirety of English, Scottish, Spanish leagues etc. as directly or indirectly there will be an influence on the local game - even if its the age old disporportionate comparisons made between EPL and LoI where people do the 'not watching that LoI muck, its no Liverpool v Manchester United is it!!??!!!!......

[EalingGreen]

There isnt a direct bearing but the consistant trend that is shown provides a benchmark. If considering per head of population, including areas of footballing tradition across UEFA, of which we are members of, interesting and pretty consistant stats on average attendances emerge. A benchmark by which attendances on this Island can be measured is useful knowledge, and even more so if pitching an AIL to money people or TV companies etc. Even if it's simply used as spin eg 'a larger percentage per head of population go to LoI games than to Serie A - think of the potential with investment and improved facilities and exposure' and so on.

The countries you mention are highly unlikely to have a direct bearing on what happens here. I dont think the same can be said in entirety of English, Scottish, Spanish leagues etc. as directly or indirectly there will be an influence on the local game - even if its the age old disporportionate comparisons made between EPL and LoI where people do the 'not watching that LoI muck, its no Liverpool v Manchester United is it!!??!!!!......Apparently there is a Russian saying that "You don't fatten a cow by weighing it every day".

So instead of carrying out endless statistical exercises to determine how many Spaniards go to La Liga or Italians to Serie A to determine why more Irish people aren't going to LOI games, why not ask them (Irish) why they're not and then fix the problems?

I'd humbly suggest that facilities would be a start. Promotion/advertising would be another. Social media, eTicketing as well? A proper pyramid to provide structure, reward ambition and facilitate expansion couldn't do any harm either.

Meanwhile, you can spin your "higher percentage" all you like, but the people who sign the contracts for sponsorship, advertising and TV/Media etc don't give a damn about that, they look at the bottom line i.e. actual numbers through the turnstiles.

[Nesta99]

That statistical work is already done and updated and published regularly. Its just another string to a bow. Tbh we know what the domestic league's problems are and the only real fix is financing at higher levels until facilities are up to scratch as ye mentioned and then with marketing et al. We may differ on the usefullnes of stats but I see it as necessary to be aware of pannational trends in a sport, from levels of participation to attendences for domestic leagues. I get what you are saying regarding percentages as 50% of 1000 people wont turn heads like 1% of 10 million people but there are times when targets are set and need to be realistic and guided and one way is to look to others' stats. Identifying trends is valuable for many reasons and while my comment on 'spin' was really a throw away remark, it is the basis on which the EPL has grown - people started to believe the constant Sky Sports 'best league in the world world rhetoric. It could be classed as marketing but certainly when the EPL was formed the claims didnt live up to reality so hence I saw/see it as spin.

Its the Irish sporting public that needs convincing on domestic Irish football most, and most of that is achieved by credibility which isnt particulary good. Showing that the league is proportionately better supported than even top leagues can help change a mindset. Using similar sized country like Croatia, for example, and Irish football attendances fare quite well in comparison (outside their top 2 or 3 clubs), well Joe Barstool would keel over and could very well want to climb aboard a bandwagon.

The % of people that attend domestic football here, considering the impact of being very much a small multi-sport country unlike many others to the same extent, is also significant imo.

[DCWA]

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/5644900/10-irish-league-clubs-uefa-all-island-league-ifa/

Let Cliftonville and Dungannon spend the rest of their existence playing only each other and we will batter on.

[Buller]

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/5644900/10-irish-league-clubs-uefa-all-island-league-ifa/

Let Cliftonville and Dungannon spend the rest of their existence playing only each other and we will batter on.

“However, to explore the potential finances and sporting advantages of this proposal, we formally request that the proposal be submitted to Uefa for consideration.

“Should Uefa take a favourable view of the proposal, we will then be in a better position to speak to commercial partners, public bodies and peace bodies for funding.

“Once the clubs are satisfied that the required funding has been secured, and will be distributed in such a manner so as not to see the smaller clubs left behind, we will then be in a better position to take on views of our members and other stakeholders to make a decision on whether or not to proceed with this structure."

Great stuff. Thought this was dead in the water. It would be really interesting to see if the prizemoney they teased could actually materialise.

Absolutely nothing to lose in exploring it.

[Mr_Parker]

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/5644900/10-irish-league-clubs-uefa-all-island-league-ifa/

Let Cliftonville and Dungannon spend the rest of their existence playing only each other and we will batter on.

Crack on. I'm sure both clubs will enjoy winning titles and playing in Europe more often. :rolleyes:

Anyway 10 clubs (9 if you discount one who may be about to be relegated) have signed a letter in the hope for more exploration to continue. They have not committed to an AIL.

[oriel]

Mr P, with respect, just what are the main reasons for Cliftonville's objections to the AIL< this is one club that I thought would more of embraced the AIL scene with their support persuasion.

Not everyone is saying AIL is the absolute way forward, (Personally I think its a good idea), 4 leagues in one island is ridiculous, I'd love to see eventually a super league of say 14 clubs, made up from 8 + 6, or 9 + 5 would be a perfect size), but surely the AIL is at least worth looking into it ?

I just don't get why Cliftonville are the consistent ones who have been saying no, and with respect (again) its almost 'Ulster says no'

Good on the other 10 clubs for having the ambition of looking to at least get more details.

[Nesta99]

Crack on. I'm sure both clubs will enjoy winning titles and playing in Europe more often. :rolleyes:

Anyway 10 clubs (9 if you discount one who may be about to be relegated) have signed a letter in the hope for more exploration to continue. They have not committed to an AIL.

Was there a suggestion that they had? It looked that the IFA had binned any interest. Most clubs have said they want to see more before its entirely ruled out. As said, where's the harm in that? While things may be changing at the FAI but seeing NIFL clubs being able to instruct the IFA to take their opinion on board is great stuff - I hope they are taking notes in Abbotstown!

[Mr_Parker]

Mr P, with respect, just what are the main reasons for Cliftonville's objections to the AIL< this is one club that I thought would more of embraced the AIL scene with their support persuasion.

Not everyone is saying AIL is the absolute way forward, (Personally I think its a good idea), 4 leagues in one island is ridiculous, I'd love to see eventually a super league of say 14 clubs, made up from 8 + 6, or 9 + 5 would be a perfect size), but surely the AIL is at least worth looking into it ?

I just don't get why Cliftonville are the consistent ones who have been saying no, and with respect (again) its almost 'Ulster says no'

Good on the other 10 clubs for having the ambition of looking to at least get more details.

When did we say no to the last proposal?

"Support persuasion"? I don't know whether to be angry or sad that you choose such terminology. If you believe that you should run a football club or make footballing decisions based on politic considerations, then football is not the place for you.

The only comment our club made was via our chairman, who based on the first proposals, called them "pie in the sky." And so they turned out, with the proposers having to go back to the drawing board.

To be involved in signing any joint letter, then maybe it would be better for ALL clubs to be involved in such discussions, rather than 'secret' talks involving a minoity of clubs, deliberately excluding some, and then at the last minute think you can just everyone to jump on board. Not the best way to win friends and influence people.

[Mr_Parker]

Was there a suggestion that they had? It looked that the IFA had binned any interest. Most clubs have said they want to see more before its entirely ruled out. As said, where's the harm in that? While things may be changing at the FAI but seeing NIFL clubs being able to instruct the IFA to take their opinion on board is great stuff - I hope they are taking notes in Abbotstown!

It is the inference that is drawn from DCWA's post.

As for "most clubs", that is incorrect. Many more than the 12 Premiership clubs would be impacted. The IFA have a duty to ALL clubs. NIFL clubs cannot instruct the IFA to do anything. That is pure fantasy.

No club, including Cliftonville, has ruled out the current proposal afaik. However, in my opinion, if the last proposal is good, then it doesn't take a letter to continue, but rather some actual real numbers to be set out. From the beginning all we have heard about is potential, possibilities and hoped for outcomes. For example, when the NIFL was first proposed to clubs, there was a sound, fleshed out proposal with financial certainties. On that basis clubs made a decision.

[DCWA]

Crack on. I'm sure both clubs will enjoy winning titles and playing in Europe more often. :rolleyes:

Anyway 10 clubs (9 if you discount one who may be about to be relegated) have signed a letter in the hope for more exploration to continue. They have not committed to an AIL.

Well that’s it 3 European spots for a two team league it has its positives I like this proposal might email Derry suggesting they join the north Belfast and Dungannon Division

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Jesus Mary and Joseph it is not that hard to grasp that

No association backing = No financial backing
Provisional association support = provisional financial backing
Full association support = Full financial backing

Either side of that coin would be either desperate or idiotic to give full backing while the other side was on no backing. All the clubs in the NIFL are asking is for the IFA to give provisional backing so the clubs and the IFA can see what sort of provisional financial backing they can get so they can make an informed decision.

This is not a hard concept for people to wrap their head around stop acting like it is.

[Mr_Parker]

Provisional financial backing can be achieved without the backing of anyone.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

It cant. But we've been over this and you refuse. To accept basic principles of business so there's no point going over it again

[Mr_Parker]

It cant. But we've been over this and you refuse. To accept basic principles of business so there's no point going over it again

I want to buy a house (league). I ask my bank sponsor) can I have a mortgage (sponsorship). The bank offer me one provisionally, based on survey and other conditions. I go back and look at house again, but change my mind. Financial backing was achieved for the purchase.

[Nesta99]

Nope not going near that roundabout of a discussion with RH again!!! JM+J clubs/associations looking to know financial implications in advance is obviously clueless...

I could have phrased things better Mr P. Instructing an association to 'take their opinion on board' isnt fantasy as the IFA will do so and say we've done that and we still are not having it. Of course there are more than 12 clubs to be considered but 10 from 12 of the clubs that could at this moment in time could qualify to participate IF there was progress is a pretty strong consensus, and 2nd tier clubs are likely to have some interest in what is going on if there is some filtering down of finances, however that could be done.

While its understandable that you will have similar opinions and concerns as the club you support, and like CFC you do come across as a total skeptic more so than simply wanting and waiting for improved details on a proposal.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

I want to buy a house (league). I ask my bank sponsor) can I have a mortgage (sponsorship). The bank offer me one provisionally, based on survey and other conditions. I go back and look at house again, but change my mind. Financial backing was achieved for the purchase.

You want to buy a house (league) you ask your bank (sponsor) can you have a mortgage (sponsorship), the bank ask you do the current owners (FAI and IFA) have the house up for sale, you say no. They tell you to **** off. Banks will also ask for your financial information, payslips, account balances (Uefa places, FA membership, etc).
Try again.

[Mr_Parker]

You want to buy a house (league) you ask your bank (sponsor) can you have a mortgage (sponsorship), the bank ask you do the current owners (FAI and IFA) have the house up for sale, you say no. They tell you to **** off. Banks will also ask for your financial information, payslips, account balances (Uefa places, FA membership, etc).
Try again.
No need.
Owners willing to sell at a certain price based on the the purchaser being able to demonstrate ability to secure finances and surities house will not be demolished. Information not needed as it is only a provisional offer until time to sign and draw down.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

No need.
Owners willing to sell at a certain price based on the the purchaser being able to demonstrate ability to secure finances and surities house will not be demolished. Information not needed as it is only a provisional offer until time to sign and draw down.

Not only are you now basing your argument on "everyone has their price" which is bull**** and why compulsory purchase orders are a thing but I don't know what sort of mortgages you're talking about because every bank will ask for bank statements, payslips, proof of employment at a minimum as well as having your deposit in place before giving a mortgage in principle or in other words the person looking for the mortgage needs to demonstrate an ability to follow through with the mortgage or to translate to the scenario we're talking about they'll want assurances that UEFA will ratify the league which requires the IFA and the FAIs cooperation. Its amazing that most top division clubs on this island can grasp this simple concept but you, the self proclaimed expert on everything to do with football on this island can't.

[Mr_Parker]

"Everyone has their price"

Bingo!

You have actually hit the nail on the head, probably without realising it.

[oriel]

I think its almost at the stage now, any club on the Island that doesn't want to be part of an elite top division simply lacks ambition.

Small island, just under 7m population, pool resources in terms of talent, get the best sides testing themselves out weekly against better quality side, will make for a much higher quality and will have qualifying clubs better prepared for europe.

The travel thing is just a ridiculous argument, Derry, Finn Harps, Cork City and Cobh to name 4 have all been doing that since 1985 and Harps since 1969.

AIL is the way forward to push the standard up, a tv deal will make it attractive to clubs. TV games on a friday night, sat early evening, this is a market ready to go an I don't understand why any club wont want to be a part of this.

IL clubs could still retain their 3pm games for home matches for non tv games, what is there to lose? Euro places can be negotiated with uefa.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

"Everyone has their price"

Bingo!

You have actually hit the nail on the head, probably without realising it.

I know what I said. And I said it because all the clubs are asking is for the IFA to listen to what's there and see if the offers hit their price.

[Mr_Parker]

I think its almost at the stage now, any club on the Island that doesn't want to be part of an elite top division simply lacks ambition.

Small island, just under 7m population, pool resources in terms of talent, get the best sides testing themselves out weekly against better quality side, will make for a much higher quality and will have qualifying clubs better prepared for europe.

The travel thing is just a ridiculous argument, Derry, Finn Harps, Cork City and Cobh to name 4 have all been doing that since 1985 and Harps since 1969.

AIL is the way forward to push the standard up, a tv deal will make it attractive to clubs. TV games on a friday night, sat early evening, this is a market ready to go an I don't understand why any club wont want to be a part of this.

IL clubs could still retain their 3pm games for home matches for non tv games, what is there to lose? Euro places can be negotiated with uefa.
Which clubs have said they don't want to be part of an AIL?

[Bucket]

The standard of the LOI is low enough as it is without inviting the minnows from the north-east.

[nigel-harps1954]

This consistently rehashed discussion is the pits of foot.ie this past year.

Club don't want to give a committment to a league that has given no financial committment beyond 'there will be money'.

Other club says "let's give this a look, it could be worth considering".

Another club remains skeptical, naturally, because of a lack of guarantees and largely hot air from those pursuing the running of the league.

Lucids proposal is one of intrigue to all. Nobody has disputed that much.

Lucid has thrown out big expectations without any guarantees.

TV money is great, but 'a 6 figure sum' between all the clubs is not anything worthwhile.

Travel is normal for Harps, Derry, Cork, Cobh...but it is not for IL clubs. It is a legitimate concern for them for little financial return.

Standard is not going to burst through the roof immediately. It'll take time. Likewise, attendances will take time to grow.

People just want to know where the money is going to come from. And that's perfectly reasonable.

[nigel-harps1954]

The standard of the LOI is low enough as it is without inviting the minnows from the north-east.

Grow up.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Pat Fenlon was on Rte Soccer podcast and essentially said that the clubs in NI were interested in exploring an AIL and they were disappointed with the IFA for not giving it a proper look nevermind the (very little) support needed to get a good idea of what finances would be in place.

So the idea that the NIFL were somehow against it because they didn't want to be involved with LOI clubs and the financial roller-coaster they all seem to be on can be considered blown right out of the water. It's purely the IFA not wanting to lose control of the league at this stage

[oriel]

Which clubs have said they don't want to be part of an AIL?

This would suggest these two are not, reported last week that a letter has been signed by every Danske Bank Premiership club except Dungannon and Cliftonville (in support of the AIL).

[EatYerGreens]

Of course you can. It's comparing the top 10 supported clubs in NI with the top 10 supported clubs in ROI.

I mean, if the IL only had, say, 8 teams, but the LOI had 16, would you consider a simple average for each league as being valid for comparative purposes?

To divert back to this comparison bit for a minute. Ignoring the fact that there are clubs in the First Division with higher average attendances than UCD/Finn Harps : each league and division in football is effectively like an ecosystem. That's why the figures you see comparing leagues around Europe don't just randomly slice off the number of teams in the league at a notional point for comparative attendance purposes; they instead treat the league as a whole and then divide it by the number of clubs or games to get to averages.

Therefore to get the full picture when looking at the LOI PD, you can't exclude certain clubs within it. And if you do, then it would only make sense to exclude not just their home attendances, but also their away ones. Because they're part of that 'ecosystem', and their low number of fans and limited appeal as a fixture therefore drags down the averages of other clubs when they play them. So by removing only their home fixtures you still obscure the figures of everyone else as if that club is still involved (via its away games).

In short - treat leagues as whole.

[EatYerGreens]

Meant to say, the one town you missed out was Bangor, which has a population of around 60k - hadn't thought it so big myself, tbf. As well as football, the town used to have a thriving senior rugby club, but like numerous others, they've suffered very badly since the advent of professionalism. Hockey is also quite big, I believe.

Anyhow, Bangor FC were long a senior team in the old Irish League, without ever doing very much at all. Then they seemed to hit all sorts of financial troubles in more recent years, eventually withdrawing voluntarily from the Premiership in 2009. Although it spared them the embarrassment of going bust, they soon dropped right down into Intermediate football, where they languished for a few years.

The good news, however, is that they're now showing a bit of ambition and talking about getting back into senior football:

Bangor were traditionally a permanent part of the Irish League's top-flight, but the last decade has seen the Seasiders plummet down the divisions and out of senior football.

They are now back in the Irish League's third-tier and [manager Lee] Feeney has not shied away from setting his new players very definite targets.

"Bangor is a big club, I understand the pressure that will come with the job and I will embrace it. First and foremost we have to get out of this Premier Intermediate. I believe it's possible to get back into the Premiership within three years."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53093786

Meanwhile, from this list of Irish towns (NI and ROI), you'll see that two other NI towns break the 30k mark. However, Newtownabbey (65k) is more an administrative concoction than a "town" proper (it's all Belfast, really), whilst Lisburn (45k) is morphing into Belfast by the day:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_settlements_on_the_island_of_Ireland_by_po pulation

I'd covered Bangor, Lisburn and Netownabbey, as they're all included in Greater Belfast.

Beyond those places, the next size of town in NI appears to be a lot of places at 20-30,000. I can't think of anywhere in between (?). It's just a casual observation that it seems strange that so many places are at the same size. And a lot of Irish League club towns too (Coleraine, Ballymena, Carrick, Ards, Newry, Portadown, Lurgan, Dungannon). No doubt it'll change over time as some grow faster than others.

[EalingGreen]

I'd covered Bangor, Lisburn and Netownabbey, as they're all included in Greater Belfast.

What?

I might allow some leeway with Lisburn (though not much), but Bangor?

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.conceptdraw.com%2Fsolution-park%2Fresource%2Fimages%2Fsolutions%2Fmap-united-kingdom%2FMaps-UK-Map-Northern-Ireland-Cities-and-Towns-Map10.png&f=1&nofb=1

We all make mistakes from time-to-time, me as much as anyone.

But if you do and get caught out, take my advice and don't try and bluff and bluster your way out of it, since it only reduces your credibility.

Further.

[nigel-harps1954]

To divert back to this comparison bit for a minute. Ignoring the fact that there are clubs in the First Division with higher average attendances than UCD/Finn Harps :


Hang on there a minute...

[EatYerGreens]

What?

I might allow some leeway with Lisburn (though not much), but Bangor?

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.conceptdraw.com%2Fsolution-park%2Fresource%2Fimages%2Fsolutions%2Fmap-united-kingdom%2FMaps-UK-Map-Northern-Ireland-Cities-and-Towns-Map10.png&f=1&nofb=1

We all make mistakes from time-to-time, me as much as anyone.

But if you do and get caught out, take my advice and don't try and bluff and bluster your way out of it, since it only reduces your credibility.

Further.

1) That map you've posted is wrong. Bangor is directly in line with the 'crease' at the top of Strangford Lough. The map you've posted shows it further east, where Orlock is. Look it up on Google maps or a good old fashioned atlas if you don't believe me.
2) Bangor is in the Belfast Metropolitan Area. That's not my decision or definition btw - it's just a statement of fact.
3) I've no idea what your last point is about. I'm assuming it was irony, given your numerous faux pas re Bangor here :p

[EalingGreen]

1) That map you've posted is wrong. Bangor is directly in line with the 'crease' at the top of Strangford Lough. The map you've posted shows it further east, where Orlock is. Look it up on Google maps or a good old fashioned atlas if you don't believe me.

OK, try this one:

https://www.nationsonline.org/maps/ireland-map.jpg

Then try and tell me that Bangor is in Belfast.



2) Bangor is in the Belfast Metropolitan Area. That's not my decision or definition btw - it's just a statement of fact.
The BMA is an administrative grouping of six Council areas in the region.

Six separate councils.

One of those councils is this one: http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/council/Yourcouncil/yourcouncil.aspx

No sign of Bangor there, funnily enough, though you might have better luck here: http://www.ardsandnorthdown.gov.uk/




3) I've no idea what your last point is about. I'm assuming it was irony, given your numerous faux pas re Bangor here :pNow I know how Father Ted felt:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXypyrutq_M

"Belfast is big, but Bangor is far away..."

[Mr_Parker]

Pat Fenlon was on Rte Soccer podcast and essentially said that the clubs in NI were interested in exploring an AIL and they were disappointed with the IFA for not giving it a proper look nevermind the (very little) support needed to get a good idea of what finances would be in place.

So the idea that the NIFL were somehow against it because they didn't want to be involved with LOI clubs and the financial roller-coaster they all seem to be on can be considered blown right out of the water. It's purely the IFA not wanting to lose control of the league at this stage

Important to note that continue Linfield to roll out Pat Fenlon when the AIL is mentioned. Social distancing by Linfield at its best. ;)

The NIFL is and run a league. They can't have a position on the AIL. :confused:

The IFA don't control the NIFL, therefore they can't lose control it.

[Mr_Parker]

This would suggest these two are not, reported last week that a letter has been signed by every Danske Bank Premiership club except Dungannon and Cliftonville (in support of the AIL).

The signing or otherwise of a letter is meaningless in determining which clubs are pro or anti an AIL.

[Bucket]

Mr.Parker, have you spoken to many other Cliftonville fans about this? Would you say, in general, are they for or against an AIL? Or any other Irish League fans for that matter?

[Mr_Parker]

"Bangor is in the Belfast Metropolitan Area"

:D They will be spitting out their pinot grigio on the gold coast, with statements like that!

[Mr_Parker]

Mr.Parker, have you spoken to many other Cliftonville fans about this? Would you say, in general, are they for or against an AIL? Or any other Irish League fans for that matter?

I would imagine the vast majority of Cliftonville fans would like to see an AIL again. After all, we founded the first one!

The majority of IL fans appear to be against it. I can only go by a poll taken on another forum, but that must be caveated by saying that the questions posed were based on the initial Lucid proposals.