All-Ireland League Thread

[EalingGreen]

I didn’t say it was.

Then is there another reason for appearing to disapprove of what I wrote?

[Bucket]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/mick-wallace-wexford-fc-and-the-jersey-with-the-che-guevara-logo-39274024.html
I've looked at that picture for a few minutes and I can't see any image. FWIW I think Mick should be allowed sponsor them even though he's a politician. Middle Eastern scumbags/dictators/royal families are allowed sponsor clubs.
If Nutsy wants to wear an orange sash, that's his choice

[Eminence Grise]

They don't have to run for office where there are rules on political expenditure and advertising. Mick Wallace Construction - fine, no problem. Mick Wallace, affiliated to the European United Left /Nordic Green Left - problem.

And I think if you stare long enough at that jersey ... It's not a schooner. It's a sailboat.:cool:

[Lim till i die]

Che wasn't a big fan of the blacks at all at all at all

So will be mildly interesting to see if there's anymore about it.

I just hope Mick took all that money he was supposed to pay into his employees pension funds that time and gave it to worthy causes.

Worthy causes not named Mick Wallace.

That would be the socialist thing to do.

[EatYerGreens]

They don't have to run for office where there are rules on political expenditure and advertising. Mick Wallace Construction - fine, no problem. Mick Wallace, affiliated to the European United Left /Nordic Green Left - problem.

Out of curiousity how is a politician paying to have their name on a football shirt any different than paying to have their ad in a newspaper or an advertising hoarding around a pitch, which are the sorts of things that are not unusual to see ?

[Eminence Grise]

The Electoral Act 1997 set out rules on campaign spending during general elections. So a proportional amount of whatever annual figure Wallace is spending on the sponsorship would be considered electoral spending between the dissolution of the Dáil and polling day and have to be declared. If a politician runs an ad in the local paper outside the election campaign the spend doesn't have to be declared. Madness, really. I'd much rather see annual limits.

[Martinho II]

If you double click on that image from indo article above you do see it. It was my younger brother that first told me about it and I then asked him for the original picture of Che Guevera. I too had huge difficulty in seeing the image but stared at it for a minute and then it hit me. Its shaded on the bottom right of that jersey and its sneakily done too!

[Bucket]

If they didn't mention it, nobody would have noticed!

[Nesta99]

They don't have to run for office where there are rules on political expenditure and advertising. Mick Wallace Construction - fine, no problem. Mick Wallace, affiliated to the European United Left /Nordic Green Left - problem.

And I think if you stare long enough at that jersey ... It's not a schooner. It's a sailboat.:cool:

Sounds something like a 2030 European Cup Final line-up! (the semi final losers constesting the Europa League Final).

[Eminence Grise]

Wouldn't be much of a game with 22 left wingers in the line-ups.;)

[Nesta99]

Ah sure the Eminance Grise would have already decided the score lol

[EatYerGreens]

The Electoral Act 1997 set out rules on campaign spending during general elections. So a proportional amount of whatever annual figure Wallace is spending on the sponsorship would be considered electoral spending between the dissolution of the Dáil and polling day and have to be declared. If a politician runs an ad in the local paper outside the election campaign the spend doesn't have to be declared. Madness, really. I'd much rather see annual limits.

That assumes there is an election during the period the shirt is worn by the team. Which would now appear to be very unlikely.

[placid casual]

I'd love the all Ireland league to get off the ground, at this stage. Just the idea of being able to leave the deadwood behind and compete in a strong vibrant league with hopefully the sectarian baggage becoming less of a thing as time went on. 12/14 team summer league with promotion/relegation from a 2nd tier group of mixed LOI/IL teams. Linfield could get the chance to show off their UVF inspired 3rd kit😁😁

[DCSIL]

Some of the stuff flying around twitter is funny, Ballymena's shirt is a UVF Flag and Glentoran play in Palestinian Colours... But that's NI, you can take the **** out of each other still unlike in England!

[Mr_Parker]

Amazing the direction this thread took. I wonder how many of you know that Pat Fenlon picked the new Linfield kit? ;)

[Eminence Grise]

Hobson's choice if the other option was a bowler hat and sash. Nothing sinister, obviously, just a tribute to bankers and beauty pageants.:cool:

[EalingGreen]

It's just Linfield displaying their traditional class and style.

i.e. None.

There are tramps drinking Bucky under a railway bridge who have more concern for their dignity and appearance than that mob.

Still, as another Glens fan pointed out, we're quite happy with our colours:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/383px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png

"Freedom for Palestine!" :cool:

[Buller]

Amazing the direction this thread took. I wonder how many of you know that Pat Fenlon picked the new Linfield kit? ;)

And there was me trying to put structure on it a few pages back!! 😜

[EatYerGreens]

It's just Linfield displaying their traditional class and style.

i.e. None.

There are tramps drinking Bucky under a railway bridge who have more concern for their dignity and appearance than that mob.

Still, as another Glens fan pointed out, we're quite happy with our colours:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/383px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png

"Freedom for Palestine!" :cool:

Given that Glentoran are older than that flag (or any other similar Arab state one), you could try to argue that they took their colours from the **** and Hens ;)

[EalingGreen]

Looking like Portadown will be back in the top tier of the IL, replacing Institute:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53149085

They're probably still a long way off it, but if/when they ever did get their act together properly, they might have realistic hopes for an AIL spot some day?

Certainly from a local pov, it could help the IL to have another "biggish" team from outside Belfast in the top flight. And local derbies with the Wee Glens will add a bit of interest too.

[Martinho II]

Looking like Portadown will be back in the top tier of the IL, replacing Institute:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53149085

They're probably still a long way off it, but if/when they ever did get their act together properly, they might have realistic hopes for an AIL spot some day?

Certainly from a local pov, it could help the IL to have another "biggish" team from outside Belfast in the top flight. And local derbies with the Wee Glens will add a bit of interest too.

Great to see Portadown back in the big league where they belong. I know we got Dean Fitzgerald from there and he turned out to be a quality signing for us. We played them in a friendly in 04 and I am sorry I didnt go to the game as would have loved to be in that ground.
The only grounds I have being in the North is the Brandywell, The Oval and Windsor park. I have drove past Newrys ground and Crusaders also!
Pls god when I get back working and our season restarts and yer season restarts I am going to a match up in the North as miss going up there!

[EalingGreen]

Great to see Portadown back in the big league where they belong. I know we got Dean Fitzgerald from there and he turned out to be a quality signing for us. We played them in a friendly in 04 and I am sorry I didnt go to the game as would have loved to be in that ground.

Shamrock Park is a tidy enough wee ground.

Their owners - who were in the steel business - put money in a few years back with the intention of rebuilding the entire stadium. Unfortunately it all went tits up before they got round to completing the job, meaning they're left with two fine new stands, an old main stand which they don't currently use and an empty end behind the goal:
"The stadium is classed as an all-seater stadium and has two seated stands around the pitch totaling 2,770 seats, with one side containing a training pitch and the other having an older seated stand which is no longer in use. When grants become available, the older stand will be demolished and replaced with a brand new seated Grand stand."
https://portadownfc.co.uk/shamrockpark/

Which was a shame, but without being familiar with the details, I gather it was all bit like "The Sopranos meet The Three Stooges" when it went wrong - dodgy payments, points deductions, relegation etc.

Anyhow, it's been more than adequate while they were in the 2nd tier. As for the future, Stormont has been promising £36m of stadium development money for several years now - delayed while they were closed - and if Ports could get established in the Prem, they might be eligible for a share? Though I'm worried that Covid-19 might see it diverted to more pressing needs?

Anyhow, if you could get to one of their games against Glenavon, or maybe Linfield or Cliftonville, it could be... er.... an experience! :cool:



The only grounds I have being in the North is the Brandywell, The Oval and Windsor park. I have drove past Newrys ground and Crusaders also!
Pls god when I get back working and our season restarts and yer season restarts I am going to a match up in the North as miss going up there!
Tbf, the grounds up there often aren't so bad as you might expect when you consider the crowds and standard of football etc.
Ballymena and Larne are pretty good/modern, Cliftonville and Crusaders not so much(!), but atmospheric none the less.
It's a long while since I was at Glenavon, but it was ok then and Dungannon is very tidy for a club of that size.

I've only scanned this website, but it seems reasonably reliable:
https://www.footballgroundguide.com/leagues/northern-ireland-premier-league-clubs.html

[kksaints]

Shamrock Park is a tidy enough wee ground.

Their owners - who were in the steel business - put money in a few years back with the intention of rebuilding the entire stadium. Unfortunately it all went tits up before they got round to completing the job, meaning they're left with two fine new stands, an old main stand which they don't currently use and an empty end behind the goal:
"The stadium is classed as an all-seater stadium and has two seated stands around the pitch totaling 2,770 seats, with one side containing a training pitch and the other having an older seated stand which is no longer in use. When grants become available, the older stand will be demolished and replaced with a brand new seated Grand stand."
https://portadownfc.co.uk/shamrockpark/

Which was a shame, but without being familiar with the details, I gather it was all bit like "The Sopranos meet The Three Stooges" when it went wrong - dodgy payments, points deductions, relegation etc.

Anyhow, it's been more than adequate while they were in the 2nd tier. As for the future, Stormont has been promising £36m of stadium development money for several years now - delayed while they were closed - and if Ports could get established in the Prem, they might be eligible for a share? Though I'm worried that Covid-19 might see it diverted to more pressing needs?

Anyhow, if you could get to one of their games against Glenavon, or maybe Linfield or Cliftonville, it could be... er.... an experience! :cool:


Tbf, the grounds up there often aren't so bad as you might expect when you consider the crowds and standard of football etc.
Ballymena and Larne are pretty good/modern, Cliftonville and Crusaders not so much(!), but atmospheric none the less.
It's a long while since I was at Glenavon, but it was ok then and Dungannon is very tidy for a club of that size.

I've only scanned this website, but it seems reasonably reliable:
https://www.footballgroundguide.com/leagues/northern-ireland-premier-league-clubs.html

Solitude is a strange ground. The ends behind the goals are fine and in good condition but the main stand is dilapidated and is in an awful state. Opposite the main stand is quite simply nothing, not even a terrace. Pitch is in rag order, far worse than anything Oriel was ever in.

[Martinho II]

Shamrock Park is a tidy enough wee ground.

Their owners - who were in the steel business - put money in a few years back with the intention of rebuilding the entire stadium. Unfortunately it all went tits up before they got round to completing the job, meaning they're left with two fine new stands, an old main stand which they don't currently use and an empty end behind the goal:
"The stadium is classed as an all-seater stadium and has two seated stands around the pitch totaling 2,770 seats, with one side containing a training pitch and the other having an older seated stand which is no longer in use. When grants become available, the older stand will be demolished and replaced with a brand new seated Grand stand."
https://portadownfc.co.uk/shamrockpark/

Which was a shame, but without being familiar with the details, I gather it was all bit like "The Sopranos meet The Three Stooges" when it went wrong - dodgy payments, points deductions, relegation etc.

Anyhow, it's been more than adequate while they were in the 2nd tier. As for the future, Stormont has been promising £36m of stadium development money for several years now - delayed while they were closed - and if Ports could get established in the Prem, they might be eligible for a share? Though I'm worried that Covid-19 might see it diverted to more pressing needs?

Anyhow, if you could get to one of their games against Glenavon, or maybe Linfield or Cliftonville, it could be... er.... an experience! :cool:


Tbf, the grounds up there often aren't so bad as you might expect when you consider the crowds and standard of football etc.
Ballymena and Larne are pretty good/modern, Cliftonville and Crusaders not so much(!), but atmospheric none the less.
It's a long while since I was at Glenavon, but it was ok then and Dungannon is very tidy for a club of that size.

I've only scanned this website, but it seems reasonably reliable:
https://www.footballgroundguide.com/leagues/northern-ireland-premier-league-clubs.html

Fair play to you EG thats exactly wot I need! I had being in Crusaders ground last season in a friendly when we played Crusaders there when Neale Fenn was managing us.
I might give you a shout next season when going to one of your games as I hate going to matches on my own if you are around as would be great getting to know other opposition fans.

[EatYerGreens]

Looking like Portadown will be back in the top tier of the IL, replacing Institute:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53149085

They're probably still a long way off it, but if/when they ever did get their act together properly, they might have realistic hopes for an AIL spot some day?

Certainly from a local pov, it could help the IL to have another "biggish" team from outside Belfast in the top flight. And local derbies with the Wee Glens will add a bit of interest too.

As a longstandign club with a half-decent fanbase, you'd definitely expect Ports to be in with a shot. Have they managed to get rid of the problem they had with loyalist paramilitaries and their social club a few years back?

One thing that's mad about the north though. Apart from Greater Belfast and Derry, the next level of size town there seems to be the 20-30,000 people bracket, with very few places in between. Ballymena, Coleraine, Portadown, Dungannon, Lurgan, Antrim, Larne, Omagh, Newry. They're all in that same 20-30,000 size bracket. It's weird that all the main regional towns are roughly the same size, and there's nothing bigger until you get up to Derry and Greater Belfast.

[EatYerGreens]

Shamrock Park is a tidy enough wee ground.

Their owners - who were in the steel business - put money in a few years back with the intention of rebuilding the entire stadium. Unfortunately it all went tits up before they got round to completing the job, meaning they're left with two fine new stands, an old main stand which they don't currently use and an empty end behind the goal:
"The stadium is classed as an all-seater stadium and has two seated stands around the pitch totaling 2,770 seats, with one side containing a training pitch and the other having an older seated stand which is no longer in use. When grants become available, the older stand will be demolished and replaced with a brand new seated Grand stand."
https://portadownfc.co.uk/shamrockpark/

Which was a shame, but without being familiar with the details, I gather it was all bit like "The Sopranos meet The Three Stooges" when it went wrong - dodgy payments, points deductions, relegation etc.

Anyhow, it's been more than adequate while they were in the 2nd tier. As for the future, Stormont has been promising £36m of stadium development money for several years now - delayed while they were closed - and if Ports could get established in the Prem, they might be eligible for a share? Though I'm worried that Covid-19 might see it diverted to more pressing needs?

Anyhow, if you could get to one of their games against Glenavon, or maybe Linfield or Cliftonville, it could be... er.... an experience! :cool:


Tbf, the grounds up there often aren't so bad as you might expect when you consider the crowds and standard of football etc.
Ballymena and Larne are pretty good/modern, Cliftonville and Crusaders not so much(!), but atmospheric none the less.
It's a long while since I was at Glenavon, but it was ok then and Dungannon is very tidy for a club of that size.

I've only scanned this website, but it seems reasonably reliable:
https://www.footballgroundguide.com/leagues/northern-ireland-premier-league-clubs.html

Is Shamrock Park near the train station at all?

[pineapple stu]

It's walkable, but it's a decent walk. 20 minutes plus I think?

[Martinho II]

As a longstandign club with a half-decent fanbase, you'd definitely expect Ports to be in with a shot. Have they managed to get rid of the problem they had with loyalist paramilitaries and their social club a few years back?

One thing that's mad about the north though. Apart from Greater Belfast and Derry, the next level of size town there seems to be the 20-30,000 people bracket, with very few places in between. Ballymena, Coleraine, Portadown, Dungannon, Lurgan, Antrim, Larne, Omagh, Newry. They're all in that same 20-30,000 size bracket. It's weird that all the main regional towns are roughly the same size, and there's nothing bigger until you get up to Derry and Greater Belfast.

What is the population of Belfast and derry btw?

[EatYerGreens]

It's walkable, but it's a decent walk. 20 minutes plus I think?

Thanks PS. Worth the trip?

[EatYerGreens]

What is the population of Belfast and derry btw?

Hard to say with Belfast, as where does it start and end (same issue with all cities really). But the city itself apparently about a third of a million. Way more once you include all the bits its basically connected to continuously, including big places like Bangor and Lisburn. It's by far the second biggest city on the island.

Derry's about 100,000.

[nigel-harps1954]

Population is a bit of a loose term now. Metropolitan populations, urban population, there's differing statistics for each. As EYG says, you don't really know where the bigger cities start or end now.

Derry urban area has about 90,000 of a population, but the greater Derry city council area is around about 110,000. Metro population, taking in suburbs and such, up to 240,000.

Likewise Belfast City itself is around about 340,000, but metro population takes in 670,000.

[pineapple stu]

Thanks PS. Worth the trip?
Depends what you want out of it I guess!

Decent ground, if showing its age in parts ("traditional" if you prefer)

Not the most salubrious of areas from memory, but no Linfield either.

Football - you know what to expect from the IL! Hearty fare, let's say

[Martinho II]

Population is a bit of a loose term now. Metropolitan populations, urban population, there's differing statistics for each. As EYG says, you don't really know where the bigger cities start or end now.

Derry urban area has about 90,000 of a population, but the greater Derry city council area is around about 110,000. Metro population, taking in suburbs and such, up to 240,000.

Likewise Belfast City itself is around about 340,000, but metro population takes in 670,000.

Whats Dublin Nige?

[nigel-harps1954]

Whats Dublin Nige?

I might be wrong, but I believe it's an old, old wooden ship.


Seriously though, inside the city itself, just over half a million. Dublin is an awkward one though, as the greater Dublin area encompasses parts of Meath, Wicklow and Kildare now so hard to use that figure, which sits at 1.9 million. But the county itself is around about 1.4 million.

[El-Pietro]

For reference the population of Cork city since the boundary change is ~210k (up from about 150) and the metro area is about 300k.

[Mr_Parker]

Solitude is a strange ground. The ends behind the goals are fine and in good condition but the main stand is dilapidated and is in an awful state. Opposite the main stand is quite simply nothing, not even a terrace. Pitch is in rag order, far worse than anything Oriel was ever in.

TH e pitch is not in "rag order" but meets the highest standards set by FIFA.

As for the old stand, government promised money some years back for clubs to build new stands. Hence any work on its upkeep was stopped because it was to be knocked down and a new one built. However 5 years of no government stopped any progression. Opposite the stand, that area was a large covered terrace, there are plans for it, but the old stand comes first.

[EalingGreen]

Some interesting stats from the NIFL:

"Although the Premiership season was curtailed because of the Covid-19 pandemic, attendances still showed a healthy increase from the previous campaign.

The Premiership had a total of 221,733 paying customers in the 186 matches that were played during the 2019/20 season, which worked out at an average of 1,192 per game, an increase of 103 on last season's figures.

Champions Linfield were again the best supported club in the country with an average home attendance of 2,365, though a rejuvenated Glentoran were the second most watched side with 2,060 on average attending their matches at the Oval, a jump of 30% on last term.

There was also an increase in support for runners-up Coleraine as Oran Kearney's side attracted an average of 1,571 spectators per match through the turnstiles, while new boys Larne also showed up well in fourth with an average of 1,421.

Over the last few years there has been an upsurge in the crowds attending Premiership games across the province. For example this season's average of 1,192 per game is an impressive 37.1% higher than the average recorded for the 2013/14 season."

I know these don't really compare with the LOI PD, but if you took Institute and Warrenpoint out, then the 10 team average would look a bit closer.

EDIT: Just done the arithmetic, w.o. Stute and Point, the top 10 averaged 1,370, versus 2,159 for LOI PD (2019).

Add to that Portadown being there next season and it should get another boost.

[EatYerGreens]

I know these don't really compare with the LOI PD, but if you took Institute and Warrenpoint out, then the 10 team average would look a bit closer.

EDIT: Just done the arithmetic, w.o. Stute and Point, the top 10 averaged 1,370, versus 2,159 for LOI PD (2019).

You can't just wish away the Irish League's two worst supported clubs for comparison purposes. If you're going down that road then lop off the bottom two in the LOI as well and see how they compare. Especially whe the variation in attendances between UCD and everyone else in the LOI PD last year was much wider than between Stute/Warrenpoint and everyone else in the north.

I suspect the average would have fallen a bit in the north had the season played out as well. In January it looked like 4 or 5 (?) clubs could win the league. By lockdown it was basically Linfield's title, with I think Coleraine in with a shout and everyone else essentially out of the running. So crowds would naturally have tailed off a bit at a number of clubs because of that.

Still - good to see crowds on the up in the north all the same.

What's happening with the Irish Cup this year ?

[nigel-harps1954]

UCDs attendances last season wouldn't have been a great deal lower than Warrenpoint or Institute.

Stute got a nice bump from their first few games in the Brandywell but were down to their usual 300 or so quickly after 5 or 6 games. They're lucky in a way they get a handful of LOI supporters of Harps and Derry watching them over Nov/Dec when the season is out here too.

[EatYerGreens]

UCDs attendances last season wouldn't have been a great deal lower than Warrenpoint or Institute.

UCD may well have even been higher than those other cliubs' average if we're honest. But my point was that the gap between UCD and the other LOI clubs was bigger than the gap between Stute/Point and the other IL clubs. So cutting off the weaker team(s) skews the average much more in NI than in the LOI.

EG may say he chopped the 2 northern sides off because the northern league has more teams. But averages exist to deal with that, and as said I don't think you can view part of a league vs all of a league in that way.

Though in reality we're talking about small crowds vs a bit smaller crowds for both the leagues and the teams counted in it.

[EalingGreen]

You can't just wish away the Irish League's two worst supported clubs for comparison purposes. If you're going down that road then lop off the bottom two in the LOI as well and see how they compare.

Of course you can. It's comparing the top 10 supported clubs in NI with the top 10 supported clubs in ROI.

I mean, if the IL only had, say, 8 teams, but the LOI had 16, would you consider a simple average for each league as being valid for comparative purposes?


Especially whe the variation in attendances between UCD and everyone else in the LOI PD last year was much wider than between Stute/Warrenpoint and everyone else in the north.

Absolutely not so.

UCD's crowds were closer to the teams above them, in relative/percentage terms, than Stute and Point were to the teams above them. and that's ignoring Harps, who were closer again to the next lowest team (Waterford).

[And don't forget that flooding forced Stute to move from their home ground in Drumahoe to the Brandywell, which must have hurt their attendances even further.]



I suspect the average would have fallen a bit in the north had the season played out as well. In January it looked like 4 or 5 (?) clubs could win the league. By lockdown it was basically Linfield's title, with I think Coleraine in with a shout and everyone else essentially out of the running. So crowds would naturally have tailed off a bit at a number of clubs because of that.

Still - good to see crowds on the up in the north all the same.
Really?

When the league was suspended, LFC were four points ahead of Coleraine, with 7 games still to play. And since the league split after 22 games, those games were all against the other top five teams, inc. Coleraine.

Meanwhile, there were only 3 points separating teams 3rd to 6th, in the chase for a possible European place.

In any case, crowds have been rising season-on-season for several years now, irrespective of how competitive each has been.


What's happening with the Irish Cup this year ?Cliftonville play Glentoran and Ballymena play Coleraine in a double header behind closed doors at Windsor on Mon. 27 July.

The final is at the same venue on the following Friday (31st). It is just possible that some fans may be allowed into the final, though I'd say it's still (long) odds-against, not least because it's being televised live on BBC NI (also the two semi's).

[EalingGreen]

UCD may well have even been higher than those other cliubs' average if we're honest. But my point was that the gap between UCD and the other LOI clubs was bigger than the gap between Stute/Point and the other IL clubs. So cutting off the weaker team(s) skews the average much more in NI than in the LOI.


I'll give you the figures of the lowest attendances for IL 2019/20 until suspension, and LOI for 2019, and you'll see you're completely wrong.

Warrenpoint - 249
Institute - 282
Carrick R - 621

UCD - 739
Finn Harps - 1,158
Waterford - 1,597

The point being that the bottom two clubs in the IL dragged down the overall average in both absolute and percentage terms, more than the bottom two* in the LOI PD.

And that's comparing 12th and 11th (IL) versus 10th and 9th (LOI)


* - I say "two", since citing UCD and ignoring Harps friggs the figures even more.

[Charlie Darwin]

Some interesting stats from the NIFL:

"Although the Premiership season was curtailed because of the Covid-19 pandemic, attendances still showed a healthy increase from the previous campaign.

The Premiership had a total of 221,733 paying customers in the 186 matches that were played during the 2019/20 season, which worked out at an average of 1,192 per game, an increase of 103 on last season's figures.

Champions Linfield were again the best supported club in the country with an average home attendance of 2,365, though a rejuvenated Glentoran were the second most watched side with 2,060 on average attending their matches at the Oval, a jump of 30% on last term.

There was also an increase in support for runners-up Coleraine as Oran Kearney's side attracted an average of 1,571 spectators per match through the turnstiles, while new boys Larne also showed up well in fourth with an average of 1,421.

Over the last few years there has been an upsurge in the crowds attending Premiership games across the province. For example this season's average of 1,192 per game is an impressive 37.1% higher than the average recorded for the 2013/14 season."

I know these don't really compare with the LOI PD, but if you took Institute and Warrenpoint out, then the 10 team average would look a bit closer.

EDIT: Just done the arithmetic, w.o. Stute and Point, the top 10 averaged 1,370, versus 2,159 for LOI PD (2019).

Add to that Portadown being there next season and it should get another boost.
Those are great figures for Glentoran. Goes to show the bump you can get if you bring in better players.

[nigel-harps1954]

Of course you can. It's comparing the top 10 supported clubs in NI with the top 10 supported clubs in ROI.

I mean, if the IL only had, say, 8 teams, but the LOI had 16, would you consider a simple average for each league as being valid for comparative purposes?



Pedantic I know....but it's not the top 10 supported LOI clubs. There were 3 clubs in the First Division last season who averaged more than UCD in the Premier Division.

[EalingGreen]

Those are great figures for Glentoran. Goes to show the bump you can get if you bring in better players.
Obv better players and results etc are a huge help.

But in truth, Glens are really only attracting back fans who had drifted away during nearly a decade of dross. For instance, they had 6k for the all-ticket game at home to Linfield on Boxing Day - the maximum the Health & Safety loons would allow into The Oval. The potential for big support if/when they got their act together was always there.

Whereas Larne, for instance, are clearly attracting new (young?) support enthused by the developments which are underway at Inver Park. I hope they can sustain it.

[EalingGreen]

Pedantic I know....but it's not the top 10 supported LOI clubs. There were 3 clubs in the First Division last season who averaged more than UCD in the Premier Division.
That is a fair point.

Although I suspect Portadown, at least, drew bigger crowds in the Championship than Stute or Point. (Or certainly will next season, when they take Stute's place)

[EalingGreen]

One thing that's mad about the north though. Apart from Greater Belfast and Derry, the next level of size town there seems to be the 20-30,000 people bracket, with very few places in between. Ballymena, Coleraine, Portadown, Dungannon, Lurgan, Antrim, Larne, Omagh, Newry. They're all in that same 20-30,000 size bracket. It's weird that all the main regional towns are roughly the same size, and there's nothing bigger until you get up to Derry and Greater Belfast.
Meant to say, the one town you missed out was Bangor, which has a population of around 60k - hadn't thought it so big myself, tbf. As well as football, the town used to have a thriving senior rugby club, but like numerous others, they've suffered very badly since the advent of professionalism. Hockey is also quite big, I believe.

Anyhow, Bangor FC were long a senior team in the old Irish League, without ever doing very much at all. Then they seemed to hit all sorts of financial troubles in more recent years, eventually withdrawing voluntarily from the Premiership in 2009. Although it spared them the embarrassment of going bust, they soon dropped right down into Intermediate football, where they languished for a few years.

The good news, however, is that they're now showing a bit of ambition and talking about getting back into senior football:

Bangor were traditionally a permanent part of the Irish League's top-flight, but the last decade has seen the Seasiders plummet down the divisions and out of senior football.

They are now back in the Irish League's third-tier and [manager Lee] Feeney has not shied away from setting his new players very definite targets.

"Bangor is a big club, I understand the pressure that will come with the job and I will embrace it. First and foremost we have to get out of this Premier Intermediate. I believe it's possible to get back into the Premiership within three years."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53093786

Meanwhile, from this list of Irish towns (NI and ROI), you'll see that two other NI towns break the 30k mark. However, Newtownabbey (65k) is more an administrative concoction than a "town" proper (it's all Belfast, really), whilst Lisburn (45k) is morphing into Belfast by the day:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_settlements_on_the_island_of_Ireland_by_po pulation

[EalingGreen]

Now that's what I call a proper All-Ireland League proposal....

"Advanced discussions about the introduction of an All Ireland soccer league have taken place between clubs from both sides of the border and interested stakeholders, with the intention of drafting a New Year proposal that will be too good for the FAI and IFA to refuse.

The Irish Independent has learned that top eircom League sides have been involved in secret talks with counterparts in the North and with the backing of significant third party encouragement in the hope of bringing the project to fruition.

The origins of the initiative came from meetings between the six leading eircom League full time clubs -- Cork City, Drogheda United, Derry City, St Patrick's Athletic, Bohemians and Galway United -- to discuss grievances regarding their participation agreement with the FAI and the wage cap thats coming into place next season."
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/secret-all-ireland-league-talks-at-advanced-stage-26337983.html

Wage cap? We should be allowed to spend whatever we want. I mean, what could possibly go wrong? :wink:

(Previously discussed here on this forum. In 2007.
https://foot.ie/threads/78826-Secret-All-Ireland-league-talks-at-advanced-stage?highlight=population%2C+northern+ireland+tow ns )

[Martinho II]

Now that's what I call a proper All-Ireland League proposal....

"Advanced discussions about the introduction of an All Ireland soccer league have taken place between clubs from both sides of the border and interested stakeholders, with the intention of drafting a New Year proposal that will be too good for the FAI and IFA to refuse.

The Irish Independent has learned that top eircom League sides have been involved in secret talks with counterparts in the North and with the backing of significant third party encouragement in the hope of bringing the project to fruition.

The origins of the initiative came from meetings between the six leading eircom League full time clubs -- Cork City, Drogheda United, Derry City, St Patrick's Athletic, Bohemians and Galway United -- to discuss grievances regarding their participation agreement with the FAI and the wage cap thats coming into place next season."
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/secret-all-ireland-league-talks-at-advanced-stage-26337983.html

Wage cap? We should be allowed to spend whatever we want. I mean, what could possibly go wrong? :wink:

(Previously discussed here on this forum. In 2007.
https://foot.ie/threads/78826-Secret-All-Ireland-league-talks-at-advanced-stage?highlight=population%2C+northern+ireland+tow ns )

Brilliant news I strongly think that if its an AIL I would be confident that gates would increase both sides of the border imo. BTW when Roddy Collins was manager of Bangor in the mid 90s were they a top flight side?

[Martinho II]

Of course you can. It's comparing the top 10 supported clubs in NI with the top 10 supported clubs in ROI.

I mean, if the IL only had, say, 8 teams, but the LOI had 16, would you consider a simple average for each league as being valid for comparative purposes?


Absolutely not so.

UCD's crowds were closer to the teams above them, in relative/percentage terms, than Stute and Point were to the teams above them. and that's ignoring Harps, who were closer again to the next lowest team (Waterford).

[And don't forget that flooding forced Stute to move from their home ground in Drumahoe to the Brandywell, which must have hurt their attendances even further.]

Really?

When the league was suspended, LFC were four points ahead of Coleraine, with 7 games still to play. And since the league split after 22 games, those games were all against the other top five teams, inc. Coleraine.

Meanwhile, there were only 3 points separating teams 3rd to 6th, in the chase for a possible European place.

In any case, crowds have been rising season-on-season for several years now, irrespective of how competitive each has been.

Cliftonville play Glentoran and Ballymena play Coleraine in a double header behind closed doors at Windsor on Mon. 27 July.

The final is at the same venue on the following Friday (31st). It is just possible that some fans may be allowed into the final, though I'd say it's still (long) odds-against, not least because it's being televised live on BBC NI (also the two semi's).

I do watch the NI football regularly highlights wise but live matches wise I dont remember the IFA cup(apologises if I have title wrong) semis being on telly last year?