Bray statement

[peadar1987]

Well at least nobody's talking about the fecking wall any more!

[EatYerGreens]

Well at least nobody's talking about the fecking wall any more!

I'm sure Donald Trump is thinking the very same thing right now.

[Nesta99]

Well at least nobody's talking about the fecking wall any more!

You havent been in Monaghan recently, they will never forget!!

[gufcfan]

https://twitter.com/dvehendo/status/891001821199818752


http://i.imgur.com/5c9MWcm.png


GLORIOUS PEOPLE'S CLUB OF BRAY

[Mr A]

Jillian Godsill: Open Letter to Bray Wanderers. She is the former media liaison person at Bray, services were recently dispensed with. Interesting reading.

http://jilliangodsil.com/index.php/an-open-letter-to-bray-wanderers-fc/

[Mr A]

Bray Wanderers have also blocked the local McGettigan's pub on twitter. https://twitter.com/McGettigansBray/status/891087064288161793

Petty nonsense.

[NeverFeltBetter]

How very North Korean.

[Mr A]

Incidentally, I have been told I have also been reported to the FAI for tweets about Bray. My timeline is here if anyone is interested. https://twitter.com/aidanmcnelis

Weird that someone who offered to meet Bray fans to offer Irish Supporter Network assistance in getting organised would be targeted.

[brendy_éire]

Incidentally, I have been told I have also been reported to the FAI for tweets about Bray. My timeline is here if anyone is interested. https://twitter.com/aidanmcnelis

Weird that someone who offered to meet Bray fans to offer Irish Supporter Network assistance in getting organised would be targeted.

I presume that's exactly why you are a target. The Dear Leader does not take kindly to coup attempts. I hear the anti-aircraft gun is being readied as we speak.

[Longfordian]

It's a badge of honour in the circumstances.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Incidentally, I have been told I have also been reported to the FAI for tweets about Bray. My timeline is here if anyone is interested. https://twitter.com/aidanmcnelis

Weird that someone who offered to meet Bray fans to offer Irish Supporter Network assistance in getting organised would be targeted.

The FAI huh? Tell us when you get a call from Fran a year or so from now.

[Yossarian]

Incidentally, I have been told I have also been reported to the FAI for tweets about Bray. My timeline is here if anyone is interested. https://twitter.com/aidanmcnelis

Weird that someone who offered to meet Bray fans to offer Irish Supporter Network assistance in getting organised would be targeted.

Out of curiosity, do you hold any official position that the FAI can sanction? Otherwise it's kind of pointless reporting a private individual to the FAI, other than trying to intimidate you.

[Mr A]

I am Supporter Liaison Officer and help on media etc at the club. They noticed my name was on guest list and raised it with our kitman on arrival. Note tweets were from my personal account, not a club one.

[pineapple stu]

Now Bray's shirt sponsors are getting in on the act!

https://mobile.twitter.com/SonasBathrooms/status/890623333120712705

[NeverFeltBetter]

Bray leadership rapidly applying masking tape to the shirts ahead of next game.

[Dove]

Jillian Godsill: Open Letter to Bray Wanderers. She is the former media liaison person at Bray, services were recently dispensed with. Interesting reading.

http://jilliangodsil.com/index.php/an-open-letter-to-bray-wanderers-fc/


Very interesting reading, and another honest person shafted by the Gruff Brothers. The actions are bordering on abusive behaviour and would not be tolerated in any work place. Does the FAI approve of club officers involved in such abusive actions?

Two questions that need answers?

What was the issue Jillian had with Gruff Brother Denis (and later Gruff Brother Martin)
The public needs to hear this, as Jillian seems to be an honest, genuine professional.
Her word against the person that proved lied to the Moriarity Tribunal, there is no choice.

The second issue that needs clarification.
What conclusion did the Philip Hannigan Think Tank on Bray arrive it?
Is this it?
We do know that he appointed Gruff Brother Denis as his proxy.
So does Philip Hannigan approve of the current strategy and direction?
Is he in the shadow?

As a director and former Chairman Philip Hannigan needs to make a statement on where he stands in all this.
Does he approve of the actions and the course of direction the club is heading?
We need some clarity on this, and Jillian needs a formal apology, and support from the FAI.

[colonelwest]

Breaking news from Glorious Leader and it's literally what everyone said was going to happen when the Chuckle Brothers hopped in bed with this head the ball!


http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/other-soccer/apartments-plan-for-bray-wanderers-project-35995684.html


Bray Wanderers want to construct up to 400 apartments on the Carlisle Grounds to fund the building of their proposed new facilities.


The plans were revealed in a letter, signed by the club's interim chairman Gerry Mulvey, that was sent to Bryan Doyle, County Manager of Wicklow County Council, on Tuesday.

Mulvey reiterates the club's belief that their dealings with the County Council have been akin to engaging with North Korea and speaks of the "sheer lack of respect shown to anyone who wants to create economic activity in Wicklow", which he finds "disgraceful".
The letter also criticises Chairman of Bray District Council, Councillor Christopher Fox, who allegedly offered the opinion that the League of Ireland side were being too ambitious.

The letter outlines Bray's plans for a new facility "to the west of the N11" and claims that the club have identified a location and are currently working towards obtaining the land.
Once that transaction is completed, Bray say they intend to invite the senior planners of Wicklow County Council to accompany them to the English FA's national centre, which they claim will form the blueprint for their proposed new home.

Mulvey wants Wicklow County Council to rezone the Carlisle Grounds, which is owned by the Council, to enable the club to build the apartments there.
Under their proposal, the club intend to sell a certain percentage of the apartments to cover the costs of their proposed new centre, with the remaining units being rented out.

They say income from those would be paid into a new trust.

[sbgawa]

What I don't get is why Mulvey is still going on with this, he can't believe there is any hope in the world that the council are going to get into bed with him even before the latest crass display of bad judgement and borderline lunacy.
You'd think he would just move on...
Last throw of the dice and then pull the plug.........still time for an #

[nigel-harps1954]

Mulvey reiterates the club's belief that their dealings with the County Council have been akin to engaging with North Korea and speaks of the "sheer lack of respect shown to anyone who wants to create economic activity in Wicklow", which he finds "disgraceful".
The letter also criticises Chairman of Bray District Council, Councillor Christopher Fox, who allegedly offered the opinion that the League of Ireland side were being too ambitious.


That'll help with the planning application.

[sbgawa]

I'm starting to think we are seeing a guy having a genuine mental breakdown.
Maybe all the property deals are coming home to roost.

[El-Pietro]

They still don't own the land. They won't get the land. This is going to end badly for the players but football in Bray will be back eventually. If Bray fans haven't started a trust yet the best time to do so is today. It doesn't take that many people to get organized

[Mr A]

Business plan:
1. Insult owners of ground repeatedly
2. Demand ground be rezoned by owners of ground
3. Demand profits from redevelopment go to club, not owners of ground
4. Vague promise of new ground
5. Everyone wins

[sbgawa]

The right thing to do is probably to actually build a new stadium and training facilities at a short distance from the current ground and fund it with the sale of the ground but there is no chance of the council doing that when the lunatics are running the asylum

[nigel-harps1954]

The right thing to do is probably to actually build a new stadium and training facilities at a short distance from the current ground and fund it with the sale of the ground but there is no chance of the council doing that when the lunatics are running the asylum

No it really isn't.

To move from one of the best located stadia in the entire league would be complete madness.

[placid casual]

They still don't own the land. They won't get the land. This is going to end badly for the players but football in Bray will be back eventually. If Bray fans haven't started a trust yet the best time to do so is today. It doesn't take that many people to get organized
Very true .
If any genuine Bray fans want to keep their club, they need to get organised now.
These people have no interest in the club you love, and will happily watch your club die, to line their greasy pockets.
No-one can do it for you, you need to do it yourselves

[sbgawa]

No it really isn't.

To move from one of the best located stadia in the entire league would be complete madness.

If there was land 5 or 10 mins away with space for training pitches and other facilities that the club could use and/or hire out it would be worth considering at least but I wouldn't let the clowns that are in charge of Bray now have anything to do with it.
Best case would obviously be for the council to spend a few million to bring the ground up to a decent standard but can't see that happening.

[Kingdom]

Out of curiosity, at what point does a club become a viable addition to the League of Ireland, or does a club cease to be a viable club within the League of Ireland?

I am a Bohs follower - I say that specifically because I only go once a month and leave very little footprint on the club, or on any Rovers supporters (joke!).
I know attendances in general are steady, but across some clubs it is horrific.

I'm not advocating clubs get ejected from the league due to attendances, and while it's a shame that a place such as Monaghan wind up, or Kilkenny for that matter, have they been a loss to the league as a whole?

When you see the mess that's emerged with Bray recently, apart from the small group of hardcore fans, would the club be missed?

[pineapple stu]

No it really isn't.

To move from one of the best located stadia in the entire league would be complete madness.
The Carlisle Grounds is a dump and needs to be demolished.

If something appropriate to a modern football club can't be built on its site, then it's not one of the best-located stadia in the country.

Obviously insulting the Council is a curious way of going about things.

[El-Pietro]

The Carlisle Grounds is a dump and needs to be demolished.

If something appropriate to a modern football club can't be built on its site, then it's not one of the best-located stadia in the country.

Obviously insulting the Council is a curious way of going about things.
Moving the club out of the town will not improve attendances. Look at the situations in Wexford and Longford. Improvements may be required but moving from their current location would be foolish.

[peadar1987]

I don't think the league is in a position to brush aside the loss of any club. I liked the variety of playing Kilkenny, Kildare, Mons, and even Sporting Fingal.

[Dove]

Very true .
If any genuine Bray fans want to keep their club, they need to get organised now.
These people have no interest in the club you love, and will happily watch your club die, to line their greasy pockets.
No-one can do it for you, you need to do it yourselves

1- The supporters need a focal point to set up a Trust or Supporters Group.
This lady that was fired by the Gruff Brothers Denis and Martin.
She seems to have steel to take them on and stand up to them in the first place.
Has anyone thought of asking Jillian Godsil if she would be interested?

2- As many have pointed out, these lunatics do not own the ground.
If it is public land, then an open EU tender process must take place.

3 -These lunatics have a great track record. Gruff Brother Denis tried the same with Doncaster Rovers, and Mulvey the same idea with Pat's before they chased him.

4- Where does Philip Hannigan stand in all this, local businessman, ex chairman?
Is he fully on board with Gruff Brothers and Mulvey scheme?

5- WCC -BTC need to come out and make a STRONG and CLEAR statement that the Ground is NOT up for apartments, and will remain as a sporting facility. SIMPLE.

6- A strong supporters body-Trust is badly needed, and from that to work with WCC-BTC to formulate a proper business plan, perhaps chaired by a retired Judge, looking at the German Football ownership model. This should include the needs for an upgraded Carlisle Grounds, and a separate football academy.

[pineapple stu]

Moving the club out of the town will not improve attendances. Look at the situations in Wexford and Longford. Improvements may be required but moving from their current location would be foolish.
Attendances is one factor, but it's only one factor.

Most LoI clubs are businesses that are open 20 days a year. That's an appalling business model.

With the space they have, they should be looking to increase non-matchday revenues - and many ground moves in England have been for this reason, for example. (And others have been for land-grabbing reasons, of course)

In theory, an out-of-town ground with various amenities attached - retail, leisure, etc - could be a bigger community focal point than a central ground with no room for expansion. I don't think Wexford or Longford have any such amenities.

This is all in theory of course. But the basic point is that the idea of "The ground is easy for me to get to, therefore it's the best location for it" is dangerously out-dated in this day and age.

[pineapple stu]

1- The supporters need a focal point to set up a Trust or Supporters Group.
This lady that was fired by the Gruff Brothers Denis and Martin.
She seems to have steel to take them on and stand up to them in the first place.
Has anyone thought of asking Jillian Godsil if she would be interested?
Don't take this the wrong way - but your whole post is about wondering if someone else will do the work. All while nobody does it.

Why don't you start something?

Posting on the internet will achieve nothing.

[passinginterest]

Wasn't there a nice looking plan for redevelopment at one stage that combined commercial units and some apartments at the bowling alley end of the ground? The whole situation seems beyond parody at this stage. My very first league of Ireland games were in the Carlisle grounds and it would be very sad to see the club killed off by this.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Been a few years since I was at the Carlisle, but didn't seem that bad then. Has it deteriorated a lot in the last couple of seasons?

I suppose we were in Jackman at the time, which might have affected my perception.

[Dove]

Don't take this the wrong way - but your whole post is about wondering if someone else will do the work. All while nobody does it.

Why don't you start something?

Posting on the internet will achieve nothing.

Fully agree with your sentiments.
I am not passing the buck, but merely putting it out there for a focal point/leader person.
I have plenty of ideas, that will contribute to such a plan, which I will gladly share.
I put forward this lady as it seems she seems to love the club, has a recent connection, and is a fresh face in all this.
Any person that can take on the person Judge Moriarity accused of misleading a major Tribunal has guts.

[pineapple stu]

But you are passing the buck I think. "I'm merely putting it out there for a focal point/leader person" is more or less the definition of passing the buck. And you've not "put forward this lady"; you've just posted on an internet site.

[Mr A]

I have a vague idea that there was a plan at one stage for housing to be built and the stadium to be on top of it. I may have dreamt that. I can't tell what's real any more with Bray.

[El-Pietro]

Attendances is one factor, but it's only one factor.

Most LoI clubs are businesses that are open 20 days a year. That's an appalling business model.

With the space they have, they should be looking to increase non-matchday revenues - and many ground moves in England have been for this reason, for example. (And others have been for land-grabbing reasons, of course)

In theory, an out-of-town ground with various amenities attached - retail, leisure, etc - could be a bigger community focal point than a central ground with no room for expansion. I don't think Wexford or Longford have any such amenities.

This is all in theory of course. But the basic point is that the idea of "The ground is easy for me to get to, therefore it's the best location for it" is dangerously out-dated in this day and age.
I live in Cork. Its not easy for me to get to - but it is easy for kids to get to. Thats important. Stick a ground out in the arse end of nowhere and what support they do have will dwindle.
The model you refer to makes sense if the club is doing well enough to begin with and has a large core support and can survive the drop off in support such a move might entail, or even better, have such a strong tie to their fanbase that with proper transport links they won't lose fans at all.

[Mr A]

Happy to say there are a few people at Bray looking to get the Supporters Club up and running again and to get people organised.

[pineapple stu]

I live in Cork. Its not easy for me to get to - but it is easy for kids to get to. Thats important. Stick a ground out in the arse end of nowhere and what support they do have will dwindle.
The model you refer to makes sense if the club is doing well enough to begin with and has a large core support and can survive the drop off in support such a move might entail, or even better, have such a strong tie to their fanbase that with proper transport links they won't lose fans at all.
And that's a valid point. Though an out-of-town ground that is regularly visited for reasons other than Bray Wanderers matches could generate far more community focus than the Carlisle. (And I think that would separate it from Wexford or Longford's grounds)

Again, all in theory. All I'm saying is that "The ground is central, therefore it's the best-located in the league" is far too simplistic.



I have a vague idea that there was a plan at one stage for housing to be built and the stadium to be on top of it. I may have dreamt that. I can't tell what's real any more with Bray.
Would this be what you're thinking of (http://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklowpeople/sport/other-sports/wanderers-finally-get-green-light-for-plans-to-redevelop-carlisle-grounds-27820791.html)? Going back to 2002; just found it by googling.

I've a vague notion John Deering was also looking to redevelop the grounds a few years back as well; I think he mentioned it in some interview around the time he went into the CRO and illegally appointed himself director. But as you say, the stories can kind of merge into one after a while.

[passinginterest]

I think this is what I was thinking of: http://www.braywanderers.com/news-article.php?id=1999
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/braypeople/news/seagulls-soar-with-5m-plan-27630911.html

[EatYerGreens]

Happy to say there are a few people at Bray looking to get the Supporters Club up and running again and to get people organised.

Good news. Though it will take more than just a Supporters Club.

Events like this continue to prove the veracity of the adage that by the time fans realise they need a Supporters Trust, it's usually too late. Hence why fans should look at having one even at clubs where there are no issues currently. The health of LOI clubs can change quicker than the Irish weather.

[Martinho II]

Moving the club out of the town will not improve attendances. Look at the situations in Wexford and Longford. Improvements may be required but moving from their current location would be foolish.

To be honest even when we were in abbeycartron our crowds were the same. Longford has never been a town for league of Ireland soccer and will never will be.

[Longfordian]

Looking at it objectively, Longford is too small a town to sustain a LOI club without a backer. Even if the whole county was supportive it'd be a struggle given the population. I'm glad we have the opportunity of supporting a LOI team but if the decision were to be made to move up from LSL now you'd say it was madness.

[mcgonigle]

Looking at it objectively, Longford is too small a town to sustain a LOI club without a backer. Even if the whole county was supportive it'd be a struggle given the population. I'm glad we have the opportunity of supporting a LOI team but if the decision were to be made to move up from LSL now you'd say it was madness.

If every person in the country who supports a foreign team followed their closest LOI side then we'd have a pretty well supported league

[nigel-harps1954]

Looking at it objectively, Longford is too small a town to sustain a LOI club without a backer. Even if the whole county was supportive it'd be a struggle given the population. I'm glad we have the opportunity of supporting a LOI team but if the decision were to be made to move up from LSL now you'd say it was madness.

There's less than half the people in Ballybofey than there is in Longford.

Longford should be looking at attracting support from as far as Carrick-on-Shannon and Roscommon, and even to a lesser extent Mullingar. All are within a half an hour drive of the town.

[Longfordian]

There's less than half the people in Ballybofey than there is in Longford.

Longford should be looking at attracting support from as far as Carrick-on-Shannon and Roscommon, and even to a lesser extent Mullingar. All are within a half an hour drive of the town.

True but Donegal as a county has a massive population. In fairness I'll row back a little and say that when we were doing well we did get some support from surrounding areas like Cavan, Leitrim, Roscommon, parts of Westmeath but not enough to make the club viable at Premier Division level without significant sponsors/donors. The figures will be on here for the last 15 years or whatever (Jesus I've been on here that long!) but apart from our first year or two in the Premier in the early '00s we only averaged maybe 700/800 even when we won things.

[Mr A]

I wonder how many of the clubs that wouldn't be viable without a backer would be viable if so many other clubs didn't have backers.

[pineapple stu]

There is a base cost involved in running a club in fairness. Would 300k be fair assuming all amateur players? Under 15 and under 13 leagues adding extra cost of course; you could be talking 70-100k just to run underage setup now when you allow insurance, travel, rent of training facilities and kit for four teams.

That's 30k people through the gates at a tenner a pop. Which in a 20-game season is 1500 average crowds.

For every 20k sponsorship you can get, take 100 off that crowd figure. And 20k is a nice sum. Most of the First Division clubs seem to have no shirt sponsors for example.

It's hard to see how a lot of clubs can survive without some sort of backer.