Bray statement

[Seagull]

This was O'Connor's shady plan from the start. Why the hell did he arrive at Bray Wanderers? Mulvey has obviously stopped writing cheques. They drove away as many long time supporters as they could, they wound up the supporters club, they did absolutely nothing to promote the club and now here we are, no money to pay the team. So will it be we could move the club to a new ground but would have to be allowed develop the Carlisle to fund it or will it be let the club fold and then see what happens the Carlisle? I curse the day the O'Connor brothers ever set their eyes on our club. They said they saved it from bankruptcy when they took over but then signed players on well paid two year contracts which was completely unsustainable at a club like Bray. I hope the club can survive this but either way the O'Connors have to go.

[Lim till i die]

Heads should roll in Dundalk.

Remember the day.

A LoI club paid a five figure fee for a player they could have got for free a week later.

[oriel]

Dundalk agreed to pay the figure before the transfer window officially opened on 01/07, the transaction probably hasn't even gone through yet !

Some mess now in Bray though.

[sbgawa]

Reckon contract must have been signed or bray wouldnt have pulled the plug. Either way they could keep paying Connolly so he couldn't walk.

[osarusan]

Some joke there...was wondering alright where the money was coming from, as attendances there have never been great and they've never had much money before.

Wonder what their submission to licensing was, how the spending was budgeted for.

[Ezeikial]

Dundalk should have held out for a freebie.

In all seriousness though, I can't understand the point in contracts if you can just tell players we can't pay you anymore, move on.

A player only becomes "free" if his contracted salary is repeatedly not paid.

While other players may not get paid, if Connolly was not transferred, you can be certain that Bray would have ensured that he was paid. Think Aaron Greene at Bohs several years ago, when he was perhaps the only Bohs player receiving what was owed to him, as the club frantically tried to sell him

[total hoofball]

Heads should roll in Dundalk.

Remember the day.

A LoI club paid a five figure fee for a player they could have got for free a week later.

Dundalk would certainly have had competition from Cork, Shamrock Rovers and some cross channel clubs for Connolly's signature if he was on a freebie. No guarantee they would have got him for free next week, they should not look at that as 30-40k wasted if they thought he was worth the money last week

[total hoofball]

This was O'Connor's shady plan from the start. Why the hell did he arrive at Bray Wanderers? Mulvey has obviously stopped writing cheques. They drove away as many long time supporters as they could, they wound up the supporters club, they did absolutely nothing to promote the club and now here we are, no money to pay the team. So will it be we could move the club to a new ground but would have to be allowed develop the Carlisle to fund it or will it be let the club fold and then see what happens the Carlisle? I curse the day the O'Connor brothers ever set their eyes on our club. They said they saved it from bankruptcy when they took over but then signed players on well paid two year contracts which was completely unsustainable at a club like Bray. I hope the club can survive this but either way the O'Connors have to go.

Have the debts generated over the past two years been loaded onto the club or out of Mulvey's/O'Connor's/Someone elses pockets?

Dogs on the street apart from all in Abbotstown knew O'Connor was a total snake, this was a opportunistic property land grab that was never going to materialise.

[White Horse]

Reckon contract must have been signed or bray wouldnt have pulled the plug. Either way they could keep paying Connolly so he couldn't walk.

They were always going to keeping paying Connolly. He is/was their only marketable asset.

[tippex]

Dundalk agreed to pay the figure before the transfer window officially opened on 01/07, the transaction probably hasn't even gone through yet !

Some mess now in Bray though.
In fairness we have been in a mess for the last (10) years. Anyone remotely involved with the club over that period could see where this was going.
What has happened over the last few years has shown we were always going to get to this stage. The new owners were certainly not in it for the love of the club and I reckon it has only been the last couple of months that the council basically said a firm no to what was perceived as their "plan".

I reckon within the town itself there are enough football people to get involved with the club and ultimately the town to get behind the club but in fairness it needs a complete start from scratch and get rid of the reasons for the town not supporting the club.

[sbgawa]

Dundalk couldn't have known he was going to pull the plug so tbf you couldn't blame the administration in dundalk. I don't think they would have had much compeitit ion for his signature no other loi club could afford 40k and if there was any interest from the UK 40k wouldn't have put a Uk team off if they wanTed him last week. But as they couldn't have known what was going to happen the fact that they could probably have got him for less is irrelevant. If they hadn't paid the 40k bray would have held on for a couple of weeks while looking to move him.

[sbgawa]

The council should wait until they go into liquidation then take the lease back.
Build a new stadium 6000 seats with training facilities bar etc just outside the town with a direct link financed by selling Carlisle ground. Let the council make the money instead of a developer and put a first class facility in place for bray nua.

[Philosophizer]

The council should wait until they go into liquidation then take the lease back.
Build a new stadium 6000 seats with training facilities bar etc just outside the town with a direct link financed by selling Carlisle ground. Let the council make the money instead of a developer and put a first class facility in place for bray nua.

Moving a club from their home place is usually a complete disaster. Rovers fans of all people should know that.

[sbgawa]

I'm talking a couple of miles and have a set up that gives the club a fighting chance not 10 or 20 miles away. Spurs west ham type moves not mk dons. Completly get the base support issue

[Bray Head]

If you have 1500 at a game what percentage of those actually pay into the game ?. I'm sure all other clubs are the same boat with free complimentary tickets.
The Shamrock Rovers attendance v. actual ticket sales/Season tickets shows a lot of free admission. I think St. Joseph's Boys schoolboys all get free Bray season tickets. Rovers is Bray's biggest home game of the season so more people will go to that game and use their free tickets to games against lesser teams.

[Philosophizer]

I'm talking a couple of miles and have a set up that gives the club a fighting chance not 10 or 20 miles away. Spurs west ham type moves not mk dons. Completly get the base support issue
The field of dreams theory of "build it and they will come" rarely works, unless you already have built up a solid rapport with a large number of fans who'd be willing to move. Bray don't have that. They'd be better off losing their current owner, staying in their traditional home and re-establishing ties with local clubs, schools businesses and trying to build organically over a period of 5-10 yrs. If that works then maybe consider a move.
If you've barely any fans to begin with, how many would you have if you moved Wanderers out the the edge of town?

[sbgawa]

Don't think continuation of the status quo is a viable option. Would be interesting to see what bray supporters would say if they were offered a new stadium with a bar training ground etc within reasonable distance. Ask the fans now theres a mad idea ��

[Jofspring]

I'm talking a couple of miles and have a set up that gives the club a fighting chance not 10 or 20 miles away. Spurs west ham type moves not mk dons. Completly get the base support issue

Limerick moved from the Markets Field only 5km away to Hogan Park and look what happened.

[bennocelt]

I'm talking a couple of miles and have a set up that gives the club a fighting chance not 10 or 20 miles away. Spurs west ham type moves not mk dons. Completly get the base support issue

Which quite a few Hammers fans seem to be regretting at the moment

[oriel]

Dundalk would certainly have had competition from Cork, Shamrock Rovers and some cross channel clubs for Connolly's signature if he was on a freebie. No guarantee they would have got him for free next week, they should not look at that as 30-40k wasted if they thought he was worth the money last week

I think that's a fair point, if he had been a free agent he could gone around loads of clubs looking to see who would pay the biggest wages and possibly a significant signing on fee too built in too, there is absolutely no way Dundalk could have known this was happening today, he's a Dundalk player now and that's that.

What now for Bray, will they limp on to the final week with a junior squad or will the FAI even let them get that far?

[Ezeikial]

I think that's a fair point, if he had been a free agent

Totally hypothetical and far-fetched to debate that scenario

Why do you think there was any possibility of Dylan Connolly becoming a free agent? Bray has a contract with him to end of 2018

[Seagull]

I reckon within the town itself there are enough football people to get involved with the club and ultimately the town to get behind the club but in fairness it needs a complete start from scratch and get rid of the reasons for the town not supporting the club.
It won't happen while the O'Connors are in charge. Mulvey must know at this stage that they're not getting the ground so his chequebook is closed. The sooner they go the better.

[sbgawa]

Dundalk could have outbid anyone else to get him if he became a free agent in terms of signing on fee etc ( he probably would have been a free agent in a couple of weeks as clear money is gone) but they couldn't have known that so it's irrelevant. It's like regreting backing a losing horse pointless. Dundalk got screwed by bray but in the context of the euro millions it's nothing. An annoyance nothing else I'd say for them. He's there now time will tell if it was a good signing whether it was for 40. 30 20 or 10

[legendz]

That's the question the players are currently asking - where will the money come form?
My question was more where had the money come to date?

The Bray players have had a good season to date, hopefully it will help them all to get contracts until the end of the season.

[Nesta99]

In the event of Bray folding and results being expunged it will have an interesting impact on the lower half of the table. Top it will rid Cork of one win and Dundalk of a win and a loss. Sligo and Limerick will lose 4 i think, and Bohs will lose 3 points, Pats and Drogheda will lose 1 point all others will have GD adjusted and 1 loss knocked off. With tonights game not taken in to account Sligo go clear at the bottom and even with a win v Rovers will be joint bottom on 16 pts with Drogheda and Pats.

[Nesta99]

My question was more where had the money come to date?

The Bray players have had a good season to date, hopefully it will help them all to get contracts until the end of the season.

McCabe is having a decent season. A move to Pats could be the difference for them to pull clear. Brennan to Drogheda lol

[tippex]

It won't happen while the O'Connors are in charge. Mulvey must know at this stage that they're not getting the ground so his chequebook is closed. The sooner they go the better.
That's the very reason I said start from Scratch. The writing was on the wall after the council meeting when it became apparent there was 0 support in doing a deal on the carlisle.

[colonelwest]

My question was more where had the money come to date?

The Bray players have had a good season to date, hopefully it will help them all to get contracts until the end of the season.


See above from seagull for who was paying it/ speculating to accumulate.

Cliff notes are O'Connors came in, ousted the McGettigans takeover which would have been the best option for Bray, forced out pretty much all long term volunteers and most of what little local support they had, brought a shady property developer with them as a silent backer on the promise of a pie in the sky plan to convince the council to build apartments on the Carlisle & O'Connors/ Mulvey get the £££ for that and the council build Bray a shiny new stadium at no cost to them. All with Bray being leasees on the Carlisle and it being council owned. Council tell them to get rightly get stuffed, now O'Connors/ Mulvey play the woe is us card and try and pull as much out of Bray to line their pockets before they get caught with their hands in the till now the council didn't go for the magic beans they were selling.

Whatever about the ins and outs of the above, another prime example of how little f**ks the FAI & their "licencing" committee give. As was said, plain as day to anyone with even a passing interest in the league what was going on at Bray, and Athlone too as soon as they happened, never mind reviewing and approving budgets and licencing from what should be rock solid figures or projections.

If the governing body of the sport in the country doesn't give a rats arse about the domestic game and only takes a half arsed token approach to governance, licencing, sponsorship, facilities, tv rights etc, the whole lot, that only invites the absolute chancers and shysters who come along every year or two to a club trying to scam and make a fast buck.

[wonder88]

Looks to have been a pure property play. Players have done well out of it and I am sure most realised what the game was. Will what happened at Sporting Fingal, Shels happen now, i.e. manager and majority of players move to another club(Pats and Bohs in those cases) and have success there? Of course because of the shorter time frame involved with Bray their success has been limited to a place in the Iran-Bru Cup.
Terrible for the fans/volunteers. Difficult to see how anyone can blame the FAI for this.

[Dalymountrower]

Bohs would lose 6 points if Bray fold and would land right back in the relegation dogfight.
And another thing.....
Am I right in thinking that Dundalk are contracted to pay tens of thousands of Euros to "Bray" for Connolly, and yet the Chair of the Board says they have no money to pay players wages?
PFAI should at least be referring this to the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement, and also possibly to the Gardai to investigate potential fraudulent acts by the company directors,.

[Longfordian]

I expect Mick Cooke's settlement took care of the Connolly cash.

[Dove]

Some serious questions need to be asked on the FAI Licencing system. Was that supposed ensure the clubs were financially sound for the season.
Were the budgets not correct?
Seems the towel is thrown in already with Chairman talking of liquidation.
Why not a receiver to see if the club can be saved? Administration?
Where is the FAI in all this?
Something is not right.

[wonder88]

Administration could be the solution depending on level of debts. A worry is that there does not seem to be a supporters group/trust there that could step in and help keep the show on the road, or is there?

[ger121]

In the event of Bray folding and results being expunged it will have an interesting impact on the lower half of the table. Top it will rid Cork of one win and Dundalk of a win and a loss. Sligo and Limerick will lose 4 i think, and Bohs will lose 3 points, Pats and Drogheda will lose 1 point all others will have GD adjusted and 1 loss knocked off. With tonights game not taken in to account Sligo go clear at the bottom and even with a win v Rovers will be joint bottom on 16 pts with Drogheda and Pats.

Bohs would lose six actually.

[Jofspring]

Limerick would also lose 6.

[EatYerGreens]

I'm talking a couple of miles and have a set up that gives the club a fighting chance not 10 or 20 miles away. Spurs west ham type moves not mk dons. Completly get the base support issue

Spurs haven't actually moved in reality, and West Ham's new home was hardly a bed of roses last season.

The Carlisle Ground has the benefit of DART access, which doubtless helps re away fans from Dublin (who make up a large percentage of their annual crowds). Move to a new site without good transport links and they risk adding no or few home fans to replace the lost away ones.

Though on the plus side, anywhere away from the waterfront would help with that god awful wind !

[sbgawa]

Status quo were a decent band but it's not going to work in bray. If the council will pay for a revamp of the Carlisle ground happy days but I can't see it. Great if it happens

[Nesta99]

Bohs would lose six actually.


Limerick would also lose 6.

Should have actually looked up the results rather than go on memory but it makes the turmoil all the worse in the event of results being expunged.

I vaguely remember asking this 2010 but dont recall clarifictation if there was any- if the FAI have granted a licence on the basis that they have decided that budgets are reasonable and sustainable and then without any change of those figures a club goes to the wall, is there any culpibility on the FAI for granting a licence to compete on dodgy figures - say Bohs or Sligo are relegated by lost points picked up before Bray have pulled out of the league, coudnt there be some recourse for those clubs from the FAI for them not doing their job to ensure fair play on budgeting and hence that club seeing out the season as per licence and participaton agreement?

Bit like an auditor signing off on accounts and the accounts being a mess - the auditor would be answerable.

[sbgawa]

Not a chance of fai being culpable. Bray would have given a budget and they simply haven't met it...then you are into definitions of reasonableNess. The Anglo irish bank budget looked good too

[Longfordian]

Seemingly they're planning to play their u19s to finish out the season and Harry Kenny is likely to quit. I assume Bray's budget provided for backing from their friendly property developer. A lot of LOI clubs have a backer to some degree but I'm not sure what the FAI looks for in terms of guarantees from these individuals.

[Jofspring]

Seemingly they're planning to play their u19s to finish out the season and Harry Kenny is likely to quit. I assume Bray's budget provided for backing from their friendly property developer. A lot of LOI clubs have a backer to some degree but I'm not sure what the FAI looks for in terms of guarantees from these individuals.

It makes the €250,000 they forced Pat O'Sullivan to lodge 4 years ago as a guarantee on wages all the more laughable. One rule for one and different for others.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Licensing certainly appears to be a "plan for the best, don't think about the worst" kind of exercise. Would be glad to see Bray finish out their fixtures anyway. With the U-19's they'd probably still stay above 10th I'd say, maybe.

[Lim till i die]

I don't see how Bray finish out the season without some kind of loan from honest John.

It's grand saying run the 19s etc but who's paying the 19s? Or the coaches? Or the physio? Or the doctor? Or the bus company? Or the meals? Or the insurance? Or the training facilities? Or the esb bill? And on and on it goes.

If there is anybody left with anything other than a passing inteterst in Irish football who thinks that licensing serves any purpose other than as a fig leaf for pr and as a stick to beat clubs that rock the boat then that person is a clown.

[pineapple stu]

Bray's U19s are struggling in the U19s league. They'll get eaten alive in the Premier. And then who plays in the U19s league? The 17s? But then who plays in the 17s league? Does a club need to field all its teams to avoid sanctions?

The problem again is that the league is so ****ed for teams that it can't turn anyone away. A way will be found to keep Bray alive I'm sure. But what's really needed badly is a means and a motivation for new clubs to join. Until that happens, the league can only continue suffering a slow death from the bottom up. (Though that's probably ok with the powers so long as we do well in Europe)

[Mr A]

That's the thing having backers / investors / sugar daddy's always makes clubs vulnerable to this sort of sudden withdrawal and it's difficult for the FAI to prevent. If O'Sullivan did throw a strop at Limerick, or the Derry Chairman, what's his name at Waterford or Kelleher at Pats there would probably be serious issues also. Even at Dundalk the owners could cash in the profits and walk away if they wanted. That's why every club needs a strong Trust. Because by the time you realise you need one it's almost always too late.

[White Horse]

In 2016, Bray's gate receipts totalled €94,000 while the overall senior team costs were €560,000. And they have increased their spending for this year.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/fai-should-have-seen-the-huge-mess-at-bray-wanderers-coming-35887569.html

[Mr A]

If Bray cease trading it radically reshapes the league table, which is less than ideal. But if they stay and are a shambles it also unbalances things as some team will have played big spending Bray twice while other will face shambley Bray twice. And teams that lined up transfer targets early may be disadvantaged as there are some good players available now. Never mind that Dundalk got shafted- and just because they have a few quid does not make it right.

Possibly only 18 league clubs next year if Bray go and Athlone stop as well.

Whereever things go from here it's an unholy mess.

[Mr A]

According to this the FAI did get a guarantee and Bray are looking for new 'investors'.

Fran Gavin meeting the club today.

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/1212304/bray-wanderers-players-left-shocked-as-club-tells-them-they-can-leave-for-free/

[Roo69]

I wish it was as simple as that, but it's not.
1. True, the O'Connors could have used their new brooms a little more cleverly when they took over, and yes, they didn't handle the long-serving volunteers very well. But that sort of bad start doesn't make them the enemy.

Totally disagree with this point, they came into the club like two rabid dogs looking for blood and forced really good people out of the club, people who have given the majority of the adults lives to the club as volunteers. They were treated absolutely disgracefully! Supporters have also been bullied and intimidated at games. The O'Connors are the worst thing that has ever happened to Wanderers.

They are, and have been from the start, very bad news. They never have or never will care about what's best from Bray Wanderers.

[Ezeikial]

According to this the FAI did get a guarantee and Bray are looking for new 'investors'.

Fran Gavin meeting the club today.

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/1212304/bray-wanderers-players-left-shocked-as-club-tells-them-they-can-leave-for-free/

It's really impossible not to applaud the speed at which the FAI have reacted to this unexpected turn of events