Bray statement

[Eminence Grise]

I suspect LTID is using predictive text.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

How does Turners Cross not meet premier league standard?

Ah yeah my bad brain went to Dundalk

[Mr A]

Cold be completely wrong but I think the space around the pitch is not as much as it should be in the book.

[oriel]

Club licensing is there for the fai to use as a stick to beat bold clubs it doesn't like. Always was and always will be.

(Our league champions shouldn't have a premier licence for example.)



I see this is since corrected and he is of course referring to Dundalk (you’re too used to seeing us win the league !!!), look we all know OP is a dump, but 3k seats easily passes it for a licence.

I`m starting to get the feeling the Peake 6 guys will actually deliver on gradual ground improvements, a lot of work will be done end of this year, inside the YDC, and they have continuously acknowledged spectator improvements need to be looked at, but it might be the year after next.

[Lim till i die]

No I was referring to cork city.

Turners Cross in particular.

Dundalk winning the league this year won't make the statement less accurate though!!

[oriel]

I don't understand this, what is the issue with Cork City and in particular TC* ?

*Edit : Being the only all four side seated and covered ground in the country. The angle of the seating on the stand where the away fans go may not be the best, but if that was our only complaint about OP, I'd be a happy camper.

[sbgawa]

yeah kinda curious too, was down there on Friday and can't see what the issue is.
Stands seem a little close to the line but nothing more then Inchicore

[Lim till i die]

Turners Cross fails on at least four criteria if memory serves.

I'm not even having a dig a cork. Turners Cross is a fine ground, one of the top four or five in the league.

I'm just illustrating, as if it should need illustration by now, that licensing isn't actually a real tangible thing that has had any effect on anything.

It's there for the fai to cause you problems if they don't like you.

[NeverFeltBetter]

But what criteria? The latest document on ground regs I can find is this one (http://www.fai.ie/sites/default/files/atoms/files/FAI_Stadium_infrastructure_Criteria_2011.pdf), but it is seven years old now.

[Lim till i die]

That's the one.

Quick glance:

Parking
Emergency vehicle access
Pitch perimiter

At least one more somewhere if I took more than a quick glance..

[NeverFeltBetter]

Turners Cross has no Emergency vehicles access? Really?

[Lim till i die]

Turners Cross has no Emergency vehicles access? Really?

I don't see where a fire engine is getting on that pitch without a big crane. Maybe there's room on the St Anne's end side next to the main stand??

[nigel-harps1954]

I don't see where a fire engine is getting on that pitch without a big crane. Maybe there's room on the St Anne's end side next to the main stand??

Didn't they add a big access point down there this year at the back of St Annes end? I think I saw some sort of pictures of that earlier this year when they were doing all the work on toilet facilities pre-season.

I do see your point though. Turners Cross is fantastic in some ways, but it really lacks in other areas. It's more like a GAA style stadium in that it's capacity over comfort, I've often said it to people who try to tell me it's better than Tallaght, but having an all enclosed, all-seater stadium doesn't necessarily equate to being of high quality.

Don't get me wrong, I love Turners Cross, I'd bite your hand off for anything similar for Finn Harps, but the like of no proper toilet blocks in most of the ground, especially along the whole derrynane stand, no on-site catering, no parking, serious lack of turnstiles and exit points and a few other bits really let it down, albeit totally understandable given it's location.

The Munster FA have done well to get it to the point it's at, and there's really very little else that can be done to the ground. But, in reality, an ambitious Cork City club would be looking to move to their own ground with proper facilities in the future.

[El-Pietro]

Didn't they add a big access point down there this year at the back of St Annes end? I think I saw some sort of pictures of that earlier this year when they were doing all the work on toilet facilities pre-season.

I do see your point though. Turners Cross is fantastic in some ways, but it really lacks in other areas. It's more like a GAA style stadium in that it's capacity over comfort, I've often said it to people who try to tell me it's better than Tallaght, but having an all enclosed, all-seater stadium doesn't necessarily equate to being of high quality.

Don't get me wrong, I love Turners Cross, I'd bite your hand off for anything similar for Finn Harps, but the like of no proper toilet blocks in most of the ground, especially along the whole derrynane stand, no on-site catering, no parking, serious lack of turnstiles and exit points and a few other bits really let it down, albeit totally understandable given it's location.

The Munster FA have done well to get it to the point it's at, and there's really very little else that can be done to the ground. But, in reality, an ambitious Cork City club would be looking to move to their own ground with proper facilities in the future.

A lot of this can't be solved given the location, there just isn't the room to fix it.
I'd still have it way ahead of Tallaght at least until they solve the wind problems and even then I'd wait to see how the atmosphere does there.

Long term if we have European ambitions we have to move. For LOI football its absolutely perfect.

[sbgawa]

A lot of this can't be solved given the location, there just isn't the room to fix it.
I'd still have it way ahead of Tallaght at least until they solve the wind problems and even then I'd wait to see how the atmosphere does there.

Long term if we have European ambitions we have to move. For LOI football its absolutely perfect.

Wind problems largely solved with the new stand in place (but not open yet) but with a fourth stand and a capacity of 10 0r 11000 atmosphere will be difficult to create except on very big nights.
That's the great thing about Turners cross , even a relatively poor crowd for Cork the other night of 3700 still create an atmosphere because it is all closed in and 4 sided.

[sidewayspasser]

I don't see where a fire engine is getting on that pitch without a big crane. Maybe there's room on the St Anne's end side next to the main stand??
In the Horseshoe corner, there is a gate in the pitch perimeter that can be opened, presumably exactly for that purpose (and for lawn mowers etc).

Talking about the perimeter: What exactly is your issue with that?

[El-Pietro]

Wind problems largely solved with the new stand in place (but not open yet) but with a fourth stand and a capacity of 10 0r 11000 atmosphere will be difficult to create except on very big nights.
That's the great thing about Turners cross , even a relatively poor crowd for Cork the other night of 3700 still create an atmosphere because it is all closed in and 4 sided.
Closed in and very tight to the pitch. The stadiums biggest weakness is also its biggest strength.
The other thing with Tallaght is it feels like its out in the middle of nowhere in an industrial estate. This is just a preference for me, but I'd prefer urban stadiums. I love Inchicore and Dayler. Tallaght feels like its a million miles from everywhere and its so open all around the stadium, I realise there is a huge population nearby but you don't have houses surrounding it so it doesn't feel like its part of a community. The transport links are good of course and make up for some of that to an extent but it also takes forever to get there by Luas.

[Lim till i die]

In the Horseshoe corner, there is a gate in the pitch perimeter that can be opened, presumably exactly for that purpose (and for lawn mowers etc).

Talking about the perimeter: What exactly is your issue with that?

Still don't see a fire engine having the room to get on but maybe I'm wrong whatever.

I've no issue. Just pointing out it fails licencing.

To make a broader point about licencing.

I hope that's ok. x

[sbgawa]

Closed in and very tight to the pitch. The stadiums biggest weakness is also its biggest strength.
The other thing with Tallaght is it feels like its out in the middle of nowhere in an industrial estate. This is just a preference for me, but I'd prefer urban stadiums. I love Inchicore and Dayler. Tallaght feels like its a million miles from everywhere and its so open all around the stadium, I realise there is a huge population nearby but you don't have houses surrounding it so it doesn't feel like its part of a community. The transport links are good of course and make up for some of that to an extent but it also takes forever to get there by Luas.

I think that's not knowing Tallaght very well there is a huge number of houses right behind the stadium and a school that actually backs onto the car park but I do know what you mean walking into turners cross is completely different. Must cost you a fortune in balls, I think 3 went into the houses.....and only 1 kicked out by a rovers player ;)

[nigel-harps1954]

A lot of this can't be solved given the location, there just isn't the room to fix it.
I'd still have it way ahead of Tallaght at least until they solve the wind problems and even then I'd wait to see how the atmosphere does there.

Long term if we have European ambitions we have to move. For LOI football its absolutely perfect.

Ah yeah, of course it cannot be solved, and largely I've no issue with it really as a LOI stadium. It's perfect for 95% of Corks season, and indeed would be for any club in the league. Europe is where it really trips up though, and even I'd imagine when there's sell out crowds, or near sell out crowds there for league games.

I don't agree it's way ahead of Tallaght though. It's a fair bit behind it in all but atmosphere for me. Atmosphere is a big part of what makes a whole match day experience alright, and Turners Cross has that in abundance, but Tallaght just has so much more going for it in terms of spectator facilities, which makes it much easier to bring the missus along, bring your kids along, bring a total anti-LOI football supporter along and so much more.

Genuinely, outside of the two-stand and wind tunnel effect, I couldn't fault Tallaght. Mind you, that's only me ever being in the West stand, no idea if the East Stand matches up.

[oriel]

These posts should really all be on the stadium thread, anyway while we are talking about TC, watching SR tonight, i have a few questions about the main stand there.

If the dressing rooms are located in the shed end, what is the tunnel in the middle of the main stand used to access, and also are there any bars inside the ground, and in particular what type of rooms are under the main stand?

The other observation, I noticed they erected high enough fencing on the main stand pitch side, there are not many advertising boards there as obviously that’s the camera side, but I’d imagine the view has to be restricted now for those in lower seats. One area I saw was where the ‘evening echo’ sign is, no way the first few rows there could see for the Euro match, as they would have to be seated.

Would agree with above post on TC and LOI football suitability. It’s perfect for that.

[micls]

Dressing rooms used to be in the main stand, hence the tunnel. No bar or anything there, no room. Just a tea room, vip room and toilets.

There's no visibility issue with the new fencing. Angle could have been deceptive.

[nigel-harps1954]

Dressing rooms used to be in the main stand, hence the tunnel. No bar or anything there, no room. Just a tea room, vip room and toilets.

There's no visibility issue with the new fencing. Angle could have been deceptive.

Could the old dressing rooms not be converted into some sort of bar and shop? Would be a nice addition.

[micls]

I don't think so, they're very small! Currently a tiny VIP room

[El-Pietro]

Yeah those rooms are really small. You wouldn't fit more than 10 or 15 people in comfortably these days. As for a bar, I think the club are working on something that would probably be in an area that is currently outside but i no idea what the status is on that.

[oriel]

That’s a big miss revenue wise not having a single bar inside the ground, surely one could be built somewhere? Dundalk have 2 and both are very busy pre/ht/post match and the main one in used weekends too. There is also a sponsors (no till !) bar in the middle part of the stand, and when the YDC is re-fitted out there is another bar there, but its only been used a few times in the past, seems to have been left vacant while the ownership issue was ongoing.

These are all very important streams of income, (for any club) and if a new stand was built on the shed side, they will have a ready-made bar right behind it.

[gufct]

Ground owned by the Munster F.A. so maybe they don't want a bar.

[Mr A]

Let's get this back on topic please. Bray owe money to players, youth teams and the taxman according to this: https://www.businesspost.ie/business/tax-player-wages-youth-football-funds-outstanding-bray-wanderers-battles-survive-420830

Never good when clubs get in bother with taxman.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Let's get this back on topic please. Bray owe money to players, youth teams and the taxman according to this: https://www.businesspost.ie/business/tax-player-wages-youth-football-funds-outstanding-bray-wanderers-battles-survive-420830

Never good when clubs get in bother with taxman.

Copy and paste by any chance? Can't be arsed subscribing or finding a way around it

[Mr A]

haven't read the full thing either.. but headlines are enough to be ominous.

[Mr A]

Still no payments for Bray players: https://twitter.com/DanGorman_/status/1016682865894023168

[marinobohs]

Still no payments for Bray players: https://twitter.com/DanGorman_/status/1016682865894023168

Will this mean more players are 'released' ? was supposed to be some understanding between the players and club that if issues were not addressed today they would be allowed leave ? Ominous alright when Revenue are among those knocking on the door (although any process they start is not likely to impact before the end of this season) isn't clearing any Revenue issues a precursor to getting a licence ? Monies owed must be fairly current so.

[sbgawa]

Ive never been involved in getting a licence but if having a tax clearance cert isn't on the list to get a licence id be shocked.
Might mean they cant operate next year regardless

[Mr A]

You have to have a tax clearance cert to get a license. That may well be the only day of the year you aren't behind on tax, but you have to get it.

[CorribsideSteve]

If Bray somehow survive all of this AND don't get relegated, it will be the greatest #GreatestLeagueInTheWorld moment! For as long as I remember, they've only ever had a core support of 500 people, but always managed to stay up, and keep their heads above water financially. This is the worst things have ever been for them, though, it seems. Hope they pull through.

[pineapple stu]

You have to have a tax clearance cert to get a license. That may well be the only day of the year you aren't behind on tax, but you have to get it.
Yeah, if you have a repayment agreement in place - say, 14 payments @ E2,500/month, to completely make up some numbers - that's fine.

If you start defaulting from month 4, that doesn't affect the licence. But they would need to get a new agreement in place for the coming winter.

[marinobohs]

Yeah, if you have a repayment agreement in place - say, 14 payments @ E2,500/month, to completely make up some numbers - that's fine.

If you start defaulting from month 4, that doesn't affect the licence. But they would need to get a new agreement in place for the coming winter.

This. Seem to recall other club(s) getting clearance when they agreed payment plan. if they have defaulted on a previous one ( I am unaware if this is the case or not BTW) Revenue may prove a bit more formidable next season.

I think there does come a stage when clubs operating in this manner should be refused a license, surely it falls on the FAI (I know, I know) to maintain some credibility ion the league ? once off is unfortunate but serial offending shouldn't be acceptable.

[pineapple stu]

This. Seem to recall other club(s) getting clearance when they agreed payment plan. if they have defaulted on a previous one ( I am unaware if this is the case or not BTW) Revenue may prove a bit more formidable next season.

Yep. Makes you wonder how much messing Shels were doing in 2006, when Revenue issued three winding-up orders in quick succession.

Revenue generally try to work with any company that's struggling, and will only really go nasty when absolutely, last-resort, necessary.

[Longfordian]

Yep. Makes you wonder how much messing Shels were doing in 2006, when Revenue issued three winding-up orders in quick succession.

Revenue generally try to work with any company that's struggling, and will only really go nasty when absolutely, last-resort, necessary.
Or potentially if they think they’re not being up front about what’s actually owed. More players leaving Bray by all accounts. Craig Walsh who turned us down to sign for them a couple of weeks ago is apparently signing for us now.

[sbgawa]

Walsh is an excellent player. Between him and Dean Dillon I'd be backing you to start scoring a few

[Burnsie]

This exceprt from the Business Post article es eye-catching:

As well as wages and salaries, over €40,000 in funding for children’s and youth soccer earmarked for Bray’s nursery club St Joseph’s AFC (known as Joey's) has not been paid. This is money that comes from UEFA and it is specifically for this purpose - Bray has no right to use it for any other expenditure.

[Charlie Darwin]

That's been reported several times over the past year or so.

[Mr A]

3 years today since Darren Quigley claimed the Bray Chairman was refused entry to the Carlisle by Gardai but later got in and promptly changed the locks.

[marinobohs]

3 years today since Darren Quigley claimed the Bray Chairman was refused entry to the Carlisle by Gardai but later got in and promptly changed the locks.

...and those were the 'good times'

[pineapple stu]

In fairness, was that not when the nutty former director completely illegally changed the directors with the Companies Office, and used this illegal document to convince the guards he had powers he didn't really have?

To me, that just indicates Bray's problems are bigger than just the current regime

[Mr A]

Paul O Conor tweet: https://twitter.com/pauloconor10/status/1017055025196158976

[peadar1987]

I can't see a way back from this for Bray. If and when the club folds, would there be the appetite to reform as Bray Unknowns and start from the bottom?!

[sbgawa]

Would Bray fans get behind Cabinteely if the council let them play there?

At least you'd have a club with a solid base playing in Bray.

[A Wanderer]

Would Bray fans get behind Cabinteely if the council let them play there?

At least you'd have a club with a solid base playing in Bray.

Could the two clubs amalgamate ? Word on the street was Cabo wanted to ground share last year but were refused

Solid base ???

[marinobohs]

I can't see a way back from this for Bray. If and when the club folds, would there be the appetite to reform as Bray Unknowns and start from the bottom?!

Difficult to see how Bray can turn this around.Almost certain relegation hardly going to encourage anyone to throw a few bob at it either. feel sorry for the players but they had to know there was an element of a risk given events last year (and before).