Bray statement

[NeverFeltBetter]

Fran refused to say what the sanctions would be. Points deduction I suppose?

And does the money to be paid include the cost of those knee surgeries?

[Ezeikial]

FAI giving Bray until Monday to pay players or sanctions will be imposed

Listen here to the Joanne Cantwell interview with Fran Gavin

https://soundcloud.com/rtesport/fai-reveal-bray-have-made-commitments-to-pay-players

[pineapple stu]

Fran refused to say what the sanctions would be. Points deduction I suppose?
Hard to know what else I suppose. A transfer ban? Sure who'd sign for Bray now anyway. Relegation is surely inevitable on the pitch, so they can't be demoted.

Really, this comes back to the lack of a pyramid. The correct thing to do - with the greatest of respect to Bray fans - is to relegate the club down to the regional leagues, let them restructure and claw their way back, and let a well-run club take their place in the LoI.

Possibly more likely is that we see Bray FC in the First Division next season, although where that leaves the lease on the Carlisle, I don't know.

[Nesta99]

Possibly more likely is that we see Bray FC in the First Division next season, although where that leaves the lease on the Carlisle, I don't know.

And Bray FC can then in due course buy back the Bray Wanderers name and keep their roll of honour and history. The FAI need to incentivise somehow for clubs to want to join senior football. 3 or 5 years without having to pay participation fees might be a start.

[pineapple stu]

The biggest barrier to entry is the First Division.

Why would any non-league club look at Wexford and Cabinteely and say "Yep, that's what we want to be in five years"

16-team Premier; provincial leagues (LSL, etc) feeding into it; decent prize money; promoted clubs guaranteed a high-profile TV game in the first four weeks.

It wouldn't turn the league into the Norwegian league, but it'd go a hell of a way to improving it.

Getting new clubs is more important than helping our clubs in Europe at this stage.

[CorribsideSteve]

Why is there a participation fee at all? Is that a mandate from UEFA? It seems wholly unnecessary.

[pineapple stu]

Didn't the Icelandic league scrap it when they got into the Euros?

I think it's to pay for the running of the league. But the FAI badly need the league to keep producing players for the national team; they can't afford to tax it so heavily really

[Paulgufc]

Listen here to the Joanne Cantwell interview with Fran Gavin

https://soundcloud.com/rtesport/fai-reveal-bray-have-made-commitments-to-pay-players
Would have much more respect for him if he came out saying the FAI has some responsibility, it’s a mess, we’re working to resolve and we’ll review the licensing process. Saying over and over again the licensing is independent and audited by UEFA is a pathetic response to Joanne’s questions really.

[atfconline]

The Bray board receive the backing of the Athlone Town chairman's son. He better be careful or he might find a solicitor's letter in his letterbox!

https://twitter.com/JoeCassidyIRE/status/1018088008606736385

[EAFC_rdfl]

Would have much more respect for him if he came out saying the FAI has some responsibility, it’s a mess, we’re working to resolve and we’ll review the licensing process. Saying over and over again the licensing is independent and audited by UEFA is a pathetic response to Joanne’s questions really.

He was also on Newstalk on Saturday for a good long interview of passing the buck. I haven't listened to RTE version but from the comments here he basically gave the exact same BS to both.

[disgruntled]

He was also on Newstalk on Saturday for a good long interview of passing the buck. I haven't listened to RTE version but from the comments here he basically gave the exact same BS to both.

Save your breath for more important things.
The mans a bluffer pure & simple.

[marinobohs]

If Bray insist on their ability and intention to fulfill the fixture, it would present the FAI with a dilemma around potentially cancelling the fixture and awarding the match to the opposition

Correct. Unless Bray inform the FAI that they are unable to fulfill a fixture then I'm suspect the fixture goes ahead and the issue of the opposition stance might be tested (will they pass a picket of their own union). ironic that it is Cork that may be in the invidious position as they were close to a similar scenario a number of years back (players refusing to fulfill a fixture).
Presumably, the FAI must do everything necessary - including rule changes if required, to prevent such an appalling scenario developing.

[oriel]

1 min to go for the FAI deadline.

This will be interesting to see if funds have been lodged or not. Disgrace the players probably checking their accounts every few hours.

Its now 5pm actually.

[MattB11]

PFAI twitter account says no payments made

[peadar1987]

This is ridiculous, and surely illegal. If the club do go to the wall, what happens? Bray have nothing much in the way of assets, so debts would have to be settled by administrators for cents in the euro. Are Milway Dawn linked to any of Gerry Mulvey's other companies? If you're the director of a company that goes bankrupt, are there any consequences for you? I'm resigned to seeing Bray Wanderers in their current form die, but I want to see the people responsible suffer. I really don't want anyone who put the club and the players in this situation wind up the company and slither away with no punishment whatsoever.

[micls]

Yes, there can be consequences for the directors Tom Coughlan was banned for 5 years from being director of any company

[Philosophizer]

Could it be that the powers at Bray have decided that the best way of getting their hands on the Carlisle is to put Bray Wanderers out of existence??

[White Horse]

It looks like a 9 team league for the rest of the season.

When was the last time that games were expunged from the league? Monaghan United?

[CorribsideSteve]

I'm expecting Bray, Limerick and probably Athlone all to fold within 6-12 months. Sad times. Hope I'm wrong.

[nigel-harps1954]

Could it be that the powers at Bray have decided that the best way of getting their hands on the Carlisle is to put Bray Wanderers out of existence??

Of course it is. That's obviously been their plan all along. When the council shot down their idea of relocating the club outside the town and taking over the Carlisle, this was going to be their plan. It's time that whatever small amount of Bray fans are left bandied together and created a supporters trust capable of taking on an amateur side at least for next seasons First Division.

[pineapple stu]

If the club goes bust, the honchos lose any hold on the lease.

That can't be the plan surely?

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Correct. Unless Bray inform the FAI that they are unable to fulfill a fixture then I'm suspect the fixture goes ahead and the issue of the opposition stance might be tested (will they pass a picket of their own union). ironic that it is Cork that may be in the invidious position as they were close to a similar scenario a number of years back (players refusing to fulfill a fixture).
Presumably, the FAI must do everything necessary - including rule changes if required, to prevent such an appalling scenario developing.

Its an interesting and perhaps unique conundrum as if the away team dont take to the pitch the picket is essentially null and void but do you then cross the picket and hope bray cant muster 11 together in order to make the picket valid. Im sure the PFAI will give the cork players all the information regarding what crossing or not crossing it would mean to help them make a decision.

[ToberonaTornado]

:(:mad:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiP2n1uWkAYvBoB.jpg

[Ezeikial]

That'll teach them not to mess around

No Irn Bru and no Ronaldo

[pineapple stu]

So Limerick are in the Irn-Bru Cup - until they too have sanctions against them, I guess.

I think that's reasonable from the FAI. What else could they do? There's no money for a fine, a points deduction is irrelevant, as is automatic relegation. The FAI's hands are tied to an extend by how ****ed up the league is.

Leaves scope for additional sanctions as and when required.

[peadar1987]

The owners don't care about any sporting sanctions, and the FAI can't impose any non-sporting ones. I suppose the only benefit is that it serves as an example to those owners who might actually care about their clubs as opposed to the land the stadium is built on.

[Longfordian]

It is difficult to know how to punish the club. You could kick them out of the FAI cup but then there’s a chance they could get a bit of gate money and it could help the players and staff. Maybe the FAI can withhold any gate receipts they do get to ensure it goes to those that need it.

[White Horse]

"Bray has been removed also from participating in the 2018-19 IRN-BRU Scottish Challenge Cup."
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0716/979124-bray-wanderers-hit-with-fai-sanctions-over-unpaid-wages/

That'll teach them. Fücking jokeshop.

[pineapple stu]

The irony, of course, is that if the FAI invested in the league (as they need to), and gave proper prize money, then it'd be very easy to penalise the club.

€100k prize money for finishing last? Your fine is €25k. A sizeable slap on the wrist, but the club still has some cash coming in.

But the FAI give the clubs nothing, so they've nothing to take away.

[osarusan]

So Limerick are in the Irn-Bru Cup - until they too have sanctions against them, I guess.

How do teams get selected for entry to that competition?

[Duggie]

If you got nutin you got nutin to lose as someone once said

[pineapple stu]

How do teams get selected for entry to that competition?
Top two sides in the previous league season who didn't get into Europe and who have managed to pay their players since.

[Lim till i die]

Europe!! :cool:

[pineapple stu]

Slightly off topic, but I see there's two English Conference teams being invited to the Irn Bru Cup this year.

Starting to be a very interesting competition.

[Ezeikial]

Slightly off topic, but I see there's two English Conference teams being invited to the Irn Bru Cup this year.
.

I wonder would they join the Airtricity League instead?

[Duggie]

I wonder would they join the Airtricity League instead? sure rangers and celtic are mad on for leaving the SPL. Weve got options.....oh weve got options

[oriel]

My personal view would be for Bray to remain in the league and see out the season with youth players or whatever it takes, then they should be removed from LOI for at least 5 years until they have their house in order and new owners / admin group who have an interest in football can be trusted to start again from the FD.

If this was any other league, they would probably be expelled immediately and all points expunged, this would increase Dundalk's lead over Cork from 4 to 6 points, but as I indicated at the start, this is not something I would like to see happen.

If that ever came to play, the FAI should pick up the tab and pay their wages from the period it was unpaid from, I don't put up with this argument thats it all the FAI's fault, clubs also have a role to play, but the FAI are behind the licensing committee, so they should take the hit in this case.

The statement the FAI released though would imply they are happy to let this situation limp along for weeks.

[pineapple stu]

The statement the FAI released though would imply they are happy to let this situation limp along for weeks.
I think it indicates that they have no choice but to let it limp along.

[Ezeikial]

If this was any other league, they would probably be expelled immediately and all points expunged, this would increase Dundalk's lead over Cork from 4 to 6 points, but as I indicated at the start, this is not something I would like to see happen.


I don't know what the protocol is on points being expunged etc, but that would be no way for a league to be won or lost. I would expect that any outcome that gives extra points that should be resisted by the club, and I would expect that supporters should encourage and support this attitude if it came to it - although that might be naive on my part!

[sbgawa]

Remaining games will probably be given as walkovers rather then all results expunged.

[White Horse]

If Bray are removed from the division, the fairest thing is to wipe the results. The puts all teams on a even position vis a vis a side that had to withdraw.

[Eminence Grise]

On one hand the sanctions seem laughable, on the other I'm not sure what else the FAI could do that's meaningful within current rules. A points deduction is like stealing a bald man's comb, but why not allow them to sign players on amateur terms to replace free agent pros and see out the season? And is there any reason why revenue from the Irn Bru couldn't be ringfenced for players' wages? It seems daft to remove any revenue stream from a club that needs, well, revenue.

If there's anything in this it's that it shows - yet again - that we're long past time there needs to be an overhaul of the rules so that bad directors face personal consequences.

Automatic reporting of suspected infringements to the Director of Corporate Enforcement, Gardaí, Revenue etc where relevant.
Minimum length bans from any football-related activity for directors who bring clubs to these situations.
Application for personal judgements for any financial liabilities.
Hefty fines for directors rather than clubs for maladministration.
Appointment of independent directors on crisis boards for a minimum period, with all subsequent directors having to pass a meaninful fit and proper test.


I've said much of this here before, but if the prospect of losing your business and family home was a consequence of deliberate or negligent mismanagement, it would make some of the chancers who flit around the league think twice before swaggering in like a bloody bunch of pirates.

[Comic Book Guy]

So sorry to see any club suffer like this, feel bad for the genuine fans of any club in trouble.
Could the FAI not immediately revoke the current license of Bray and appoint an interim board which would see the season out?
It could galvanise what is left of the club's support and maybe encourage back those volunteers the club dispensed with in recent years. Those that have the club at heart.
As eminence said there needs to be consequences for maladministration by directors but then again with what passes for corporate governance in this country I won't hold my breath.

[Duggie]

What support?? Part of the reason they are in this is precisely that they have no support. Couple of hundred people at games. Wont be any real loss to the league next year.

[pineapple stu]

Could the FAI not immediately revoke the current license of Bray and appoint an interim board which would see the season out?
Who would that be? LoI directors don't exactly grow on trees.

And how would that help the players get paid?

[Eminence Grise]

Well, maybe the problem is some LoI directors in the first case. There are lots of good people, no doubt, but there also well-intentioned but ineffectual volunteers and wilful saboteurs. There are plenty of directors nationwide who could bring a lot of experience and a fresh perspective to the league. They don't have to be former club directors. The Institute of Directors has up on 3,000 members. Every LEO, third-level campus incubator, management consultancy, accounting, legal, PR and marketing firm, etc has experienced people. You need finance, governance, local community, football and a chairperson: accountant, lawyer, club member/fans group, former player/football administrator, AN Other. To be honest, in a crisis, finance, governance and a chair would do. And maybe a board charged with operating in the clubs' interest might actually run it properly, without siphoning off income or making a land grab? You know, put players and creditors first, a bit like a receivership attempts to trade out of crisis, or prepare for sale as a going concern.

[sbgawa]

Very hard to get people to volunteer for a role as a director in a company with limited or no resources.

Any club that defaults on wages should have to deposit a minimum of 4 months wages with the FAI before being allowed to enter the league the next season.
That isn't impossible as theoretically if a club went fully amateur there would be no wages so the emphasis would be on the club to find the money up front or accept they need to lower the budget to whatever they can raise.
If they default again the FAI can step in but if that has to happen then its points deduction and exclusion from the league for a minimum of 3 years, plus the directors cant be involved for a minimum of 5 years again.
I know its not perfect but something has to change.
The FAI will probably now come out with some even more stringent criteria for next year as they wont want to risk this happening again.

[Comic Book Guy]

Who would that be? LoI directors don't exactly grow on trees.

And how would that help the players get paid?

It mightn't help straight away but an interim group coupled with the realisation that the existing board have been removed might mean a bounce in the gates. See the season out and then encourage a supporters run group to take over the club.
The LOI is the last place to look for new directors.

[marinobohs]

Remaining games will probably be given as walkovers rather then all results expunged.

I think the precedent (Monaghan) saw all results expunged but who knows ?

Difficult to see how the FAI could do much more than the (non)sanctions imposed but perhaps a lowering of the admin/registration charge with monies put aside to form a fund for future cases should be considered (somewhat like the uninsured drivers fund) ? this might encourage other clubs to be less understanding of this messing and would at least provide some income continuance for players in the future. Obviously clubs acting the maggot would increase future premiums so it might 'encourage' clubs to police a bit better. somebody has to take control and Fran ain't the man !

[sbgawa]

Dundalk have dropped 2 points to Bray but Cork have dropped none.
Dundalk would go six points clear with 1 less game to play in the season....game set and match if it isn't already.