League of Ireland in Europe 2017

[sbgawa]

Early maybe but any chance the fai might schedule derry dundalk cork and rovers to play each other twice directly after first round euro qualifiers ...they will be putting the schedule together soon I guess

[patrickccfc]

The fai helping our clubs in Europe or not.. Really? Snowballs chance in hell there

[nigel-harps1954]

Hearing that the season is due to start second week in February next year and removing midweek fixtures to avoid any potential congestion with clubs in Europe in 2017.

[patrickccfc]

Hearing that the season is due to start second week in February next year and removing midweek fixtures to avoid any potential congestion with clubs in Europe in 2017.

That would be brilliant if it was to happen. I just don't like midweek games so to be rid of them would be grand. Non European clubs wouldn't be affected by cancellations and clubs that progress through a few rounds wouldn't face a massive backlog. Attendances would be up too you would imagine

[sbgawa]

Hearing that the season is due to start second week in February next year and removing midweek fixtures to avoid any potential congestion with clubs in Europe in 2017.

That would be great , and would show a bit of ambition to make things better

[pineapple stu]

Worth throwing in that UCD may well be in the UEFA Youth League too. We need four clubs to qualify for both the Champions League and the UEFA Youth League and we're in. Or fewer if Dundalk get another couple of wins.

Kind of appropriate that Dundalk's run of form is what may get us in, given all 11 of their goals have been scored by ex-UCD players

[legendz]

Hearing that the season is due to start second week in February next year and removing midweek fixtures to avoid any potential congestion with clubs in Europe in 2017.
I've always thought the third weekend of February is a good time to start. It's a gap weekend after two rounds of 6 Nations. There would be a reasonable expectation of good media coverage of any decent promotional stuff ahead of the season's opening fixtures.

[pineapple stu]

Worth throwing in that UCD may well be in the UEFA Youth League too. We need four clubs to qualify for both the Champions League and the UEFA Youth League and we're in. Or fewer if Dundalk get another couple of wins.

Kind of appropriate that Dundalk's run of form is what may get us in, given all 11 of their goals have been scored by ex-UCD players
Actually, looks like Dundalk's adventures won't affect the UEFA Youth League until next year - so we're 41st, not 37th. That's a big difference, and though 41st qualified this year, I think that was a one-off and won't happen again this year.

But you never know. And in the meantime, just got to win it again next year!

[Louth4sam]

Hearing that the season is due to start second week in February next year and removing midweek fixtures to avoid any potential congestion with clubs in Europe in 2017.

That would be just typical if we have to get start of season games postponed due to Europa league last 32 matches

[El-Pietro]

Actually, looks like Dundalk's adventures won't affect the UEFA Youth League until next year - so we're 41st, not 37th. That's a big difference, and though 41st qualified this year, I think that was a one-off and won't happen again this year.

But you never know. And in the meantime, just got to win it again next year!
Effectively 40th. Lichenstein don't get a qualifier as they don't have a league. I didn't cop that and it threw all my calculations off, I couldn't understand why the club kept saying we needed two more teams to qualify for the CL proper when I had it at 3.

[pineapple stu]

Well yeah, I'd spotted that alright - though 41st still qualified this year, with Liechtenstein above them. And the previous year, it only went down as far as 37th.

Still, we can but wait and see.

[seand]

Would be great to see UCD in there, and very impressed with Cork so far.

Now, off to look at potential seedings in the big boys Champions League 2017-18!

[El-Pietro]

Can someone please fix the title if this is going to be the main thread for the next 12 months?

[ger121]

Can someone please fix the title if this is going to be the main thread for the next 12 months?

What's wrong with the title?

[seand]

What's wrong with the title?

Capital E required if we're going to be looking at this until May 2018.

[El-Pietro]

What's wrong with the title?

Nothing now, but it was League of ireland in europe 2017 earlier.

[ger121]

Nothing now, but it was League of ireland in europe 2017 earlier.

Good God... I knew things were a bit bad down in Cork today but not so bad that a couple of missed uppercases could drive you to distraction.

[ger121]

Capital E required if we're going to be looking at this until May 2018.

I'm surprised you missed the I as well. Lads, seriously!

[sbgawa]

Well leaving aside my spelling etc ,

I know the perceived wisdom is the later you enter European qualifying the better but you get as much for winning an earlier qualifying round as a later one and in theory at least the earlier rounds are weaker opposition.
With the exception of Dundalk who don't need the loot now, I think most LOI clubs would be better off starting in as early a round as possible and banking the extra cash for playing more rounds (he says optimistically)..maybe I'm being negative but the European money now is such a huge part of the annual playing budget in the clubs lucky enough to qualify.
LOI club versus the champions of Andorra in round 1 , couple of hundred grand and move on to round two

[pineapple stu]

I always wonder at the mindset of people who think that.

Yep, I too would rather a really crap league that has to play the San Marino champions every year compared to a decent league where you start off in, say, the Europa League group stages.

What's the point in taking some cash if the league is going to continue to be held up by small-minded thinking like that?

[Charlie Darwin]

The one tiny flaw in that plan is that to consistently enter at the first round, you have to consistently get beaten.

[sbgawa]

I always wonder at the mindset of people who think that.

Yep, I too would rather a really crap league that has to play the San Marino champions every year compared to a decent league where you start off in, say, the Europa League group stages.

What's the point in taking some cash if the league is going to continue to be held up by small-minded thinking like that?


To be fair I meant in a scenario where it was marginal between being in Q1 or Q2, I would rather things improved for sure where we were entering later and winning consistently, .
it does read negatively reading back on it now but I guess I'm embittered by age and experience : )

[pineapple stu]

You can't possibly go forward by regressing that far - that's all I guess.

[sparky12345678]

Due to dropping coefficient points it seems that both Cork and Shamrock Rovers might be unseeded in that first round. The cut off point this year was 3.625 but Shamrock Rovers have dropped to 3.065, Cork has improved to 2.565 while Pats stay just above with a reduced 4.315.
(Dundalk heroics will only boost it significantly with a few more wins/qualifying). Dundalk's exploits show what can/should be done but other clubs need to follow and improve on performances in Europe. Dundalk's exploits this year can be easily undone by failing to improve further... Obviously the cutoff point could be higher or lower (cant see how it was in previous years on Bert's site) but overall, despite Dundalk's exploits our league is still 37th... ie closer to the bottom than we should be). A fair few "results" away from Finland, Iceland, Modova, Liechtenstein.

[El-Pietro]

We were never going to be seeded next year. we would have needed to do what Dundalk did to have a chance. our history as far as our coefficient is considered was this year and last year. our most recent European appearance before last summer was 2008.

Pats and Dundalk were the only teams that could possibly be seeded next season

[brendy_éire]

I always wonder at the mindset of people who think that.

From a fans' perspective, you get an extra away trip out of it. You a decent chance of going away and getting a win.
For example, 2013, when we went straight into the second round unseeded and drew Trabzonspor. Awkward to get to, costly, poor travelling crowd (for both sides), not much hope of progression (negative thinking, I know). Bit of an anti-climax.
Compare that to 2014, entering in the first round, seeded, drawing Aberystwyth. Handy and cheap trip for fans, we brought hundreds over, won 9-0, craic was ninety.

Whilst we all enjoy the league, there's something special about European football. It's what people will still be taking about in 20, 30, 40 years time. You still hear ones talking about us beating FK Lyn in 1965 even.
So, aye, if it's borderline between getting into the first or second qualifying round, I'll happily take the first.
(All well and good until you get a Faroese team mind!)

[seand]

Back in the day when you got coefficient points for wins and draws you were better off starting in the first round.

I think each coefficient point Dundalk get earns .25 for everyone else, so even another draw could make the difference between Rovers or Pats being seeded / unseeded.

[El-Pietro]

It really couldn't. Each win is worth 0.1, each draw is worth 0.05, and that only counts for next season. Dundalk wins will have no impact on other clubs from here on out. Maybe if you win the thing you might get Rovers seeded.

[dundalkfc10]

It really couldn't. Each win is worth 0.1, each draw is worth 0.05, and that only counts for next season. Dundalk wins will have no impact on other clubs from here on out. Maybe if you win the thing you might get Rovers seeded.

When we win it, we automatically get Group Stage of Champions League next year! Will this mean Cork enter CL aswell?:cool:

[seand]

It really couldn't. Each win is worth 0.1, each draw is worth 0.05, and that only counts for next season. Dundalk wins will have no impact on other clubs from here on out. Maybe if you win the thing you might get Rovers seeded.

I thought the country coefficient went up by a quarter of the total club coef, so 1 point in the group was worth .25 to other clubs?

EDIT: ah yes.... and then divided by 5 as it's counted over 5 years :(

Anyway the coefficient of your little clubs is of no concern to me.... evil laugh

[El-Pietro]

From a fans' perspective, you get an extra away trip out of it. You a decent chance of going away and getting a win.
For example, 2013, when we went straight into the second round unseeded and drew Trabzonspor. Awkward to get to, costly, poor travelling crowd (for both sides), not much hope of progression (negative thinking, I know). Bit of an anti-climax.
Compare that to 2014, entering in the first round, seeded, drawing Aberystwyth. Handy and cheap trip for fans, we brought hundreds over, won 9-0, craic was ninety.

Whilst we all enjoy the league, there's something special about European football. It's what people will still be taking about in 20, 30, 40 years time. You still hear ones talking about us beating FK Lyn in 1965 even.
So, aye, if it's borderline between getting into the first or second qualifying round, I'll happily take the first.
(All well and good until you get a Faroese team mind!)
The good news is you won't be going to the Faroes. No Faroese team will be seeded. You also won't be going to Wales unless TNS collapse as no other Welsh team can be seeded. Scotland and Northern Ireland will have seeded teams, so you might have a short journey.

[bennocelt]

Someone on berts site kindly went to the bother of translating Russian and coming up with some ideas for next year and for 2018

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1u_-1nS5UuX2AscK42Qp723uzHG97ec9zRm8RIXM7W-g/edit#gid=1610432354

Looks like no Irish clubs will be seeded next year, which is a bit of a fecker, and if they get tough draws well that's that then. Oh how costly that miss by Kilduff
But I do like the look of the new format. Sure its virtually impossible to get into the CL main league, but the Europa definitely looks much easier now for the LOI champs? Plus the added advantage of more games in Europe and more exotic trips

For the co efficients reverting to ten years, would that not give LOI teams a slight advantage in seeding over some of the newer countries? Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, etc?

[pineapple stu]

One hour long show on eir now about Dundalk.

Fair dues to eir; really pushing the league

[legendz]

One hour long show on eir now about Dundalk.

Fair dues to eir; really pushing the league
We had the eircom league in the past. EirSport could be a suitable title sponsor. They possibly would be creative in promoting the league.

[sbgawa]

Linfield or cliftonville would be good. Low expense and good chance of a win.

[ger121]

So Dundalk would miss out on a seeding spot by one place, if all those teams make it. I was doing my own bit of analysis a couple weeks ago and I had them in as the last seeded side. Time will tell.

[White Horse]

Irish sports writers have given Dundalk great coverage this year. A fitting summary of the away games by Daniel McDonnell.


http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/daniel-mcdonnell-the-12000km-adventure-for-memories-to-last-a-lifetime-35329096.html

[DannyInvincible]

The newly-agreed Champions League and Europa League BT-deal takes effect from 2018, but I'll stick Emmet Malone's piece on it and how it may benefit qualifying LOI clubs here as it seems to be the most appropriate already-existing thread for it.

'BT deal has potentially big implications for top Irish clubs': http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/bt-deal-has-potentially-big-implications-for-top-irish-clubs-1.3001095


It might seem a world away from a league where the lights go out at Maginn Park - and Derry City having to offer free admission to their rescheduled game against Limerick because they have no way of establishing who paid in the first time around - but BT’s willingness to pay substantially more for Champions League rights from 2018 on has potentially big ramifications for the leading clubs here.

Prize money for Uefa’s two big club competitions is, for the most part, related to income generated. The 32 per cent increase (to almost €1.4 billion) BT has agreed to pay for exclusive rights to both over the three seasons leading up to the summer of 2021 gives an idea of where club revenues from the Champions and Europa Leagues can be expected to go for the cycle that begins next year.

There is more involved here than just broadcast rights deals, but taking Monday’s announcement as the most basic of yardsticks, Real Madrid might anticipate something in the region of €27 million more from Uefa than the €80 million they got for winning the Champions League last season if they repeat the trick in a couple of years time.

In terms of a proportion of turnover, though, that’s still minor enough compared to what the increases might mean to Irish clubs.

Last year’s Europa League run, for instance, could have been worth an additional €2 million or so to Dundalk which, in a rather more mundane year, would almost certainly exceed total revenues up at Oriel Park.

It certainly dwarfs the €110,000 a club gets for winning the league here or, for that matter, the €475,500 that all 20 clubs will split between them this season. By English standards, of course, the figures are decidedly modest. But the fact is that for all the talk of how critical it is for a leading Premier League club to finish in the top four, European qualification is, in relative terms, at least as important to sides here.

The three Irish clubs going straight into this season’s Europa League are guaranteed more than €200,000. If they make it to the play-off round they will earn close to €1 million, a figure that should also rise substantially from 2018 onwards. Former Sligo Rovers chairman Dermot Kelly wrote in The Irish Times a couple of weeks back about how earning even the lower figure had been almost a matter of survival for that club a few years back.

With many of the costs associated with participating at that level relatively constant, the profit made by the clubs involved on a European run has gone up hugely since then and future increases are likely to be even more beneficial.

It is no wonder that there is a growing sense of pressure on the league’s most prominent managers with the measure of success or failure no longer hinging to anything like the same extent of whether a trophy is actually won.

So, from a board’s point of view Derry’s third place finish last year must look like a triumph. But for others, gaining access to the European cash has become a fairly central element to planning. Shamrock Rovers look to be a case in point.

Having failed to capitalise to the extent expected after their own Europa League group stage appearance in 2011, the club is now attempting to transform the way it is structured and funded.

In the long term, there is clearly the hope of generating substantial revenues from the sale of young players. But the establishment of the academy and related emphasis on youth development has been accompanied by a renewed determination that the first team be in Europe each year.

For Stephen Bradley that inevitably brings pressure, although the sense on Friday night was that he is a manager being given an opportunity to operate in an environment that most clubs can only dream of creating. Certainly Bohemians, for all their misery at being beaten by their most bitter rivals, might be forgiven for feeling they were getting a glimpse of an exciting future in a modern, council backed stadium of their own.

Tallaght looked as though it had come into its own the other night with Rovers attracting its largest home crowd for a league game since 2011. Among the 5,322 were 200 sponsors and their guests and fans who came for a sit down meal at a hospitality event that no other club would currently be in a position to match on-site.

That might not sound like a big deal to anyone whose experience of live sport is limited to the very top end events. But for the league it is certainly significant and the club points to the contribution these sort of add-ons can make to improving the return for sponsors and attracting non-core supporters.

With Derry to visit this Friday, then Cork City due on St Patrick’s Day, there looks to be potential to build on last Friday but winning against Bohemians, it is acknowledged, was of critical importance with the victory delivering momentum that should help with crowds and commercial revenues during the weeks ahead. That is why one club official described the Friday’s game as “more than a six pointer”.

On the pitch, the team is clearly still gelling but to judge by their opening two games, it is still some way off possessing the quality required to actually win a title. In the short term, though, just improving on last year’s first round Europa League exit would be worth at least twice as much money to Bradley’s employers as a league crown.

It is clearly open to question whether that is as it should be or, for that matter, if this is really the most progressive way for Uefa to distribute some its enormous wealth to the continent’s peripheral leagues. It is not going to change anytime soon, though, and so deals like BT’s will ensure that despite the lack of increased funds from the FAI and the lights going out here on an apparently weekly basis, for a few clubs at least, the game here is an increasingly high stakes affair.

[bennocelt]

Just a little early I know, but a hell a lot of teams have wrapped up their leagues already (Basel, Celtic.....Chelsea)

Back again for another season:o

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=4FE4712A1E3EA4FA!276&ithint=file%2cxlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!ABIW6UTgpCoOwpY

Looks like Dundalk wont be seeded so

[DannyInvincible]

Heh, an even earlier bird already got there before you: http://foot.ie/threads/217098-League-of-Ireland-in-Europe-2017

:)

[oriel]

The DFC match day programme runs an update on the seeding for each home game, for the first programme (late Feb) we were in the final seeded spot (at that point in time) but only due to clubs who had very little euro pedigree leading those leagues.

The most likely scenario was that Dundalk would be un-seeded and this still remains, in fact it will probably be all but confirmed very soon. Interesting to note amongst clubs already confirmed as seeded are the two we knocked out last year, BATE and FH. The latter being prime example of getting your co-efficient in good order means you don’t have to be relying on other leagues to have league winners with clubs with lower co-efficient.

Dundalk would probably need to get to play off stage again this year, and with a few more wins to have a chance of being seeded next year. That’s a very tall order. The same will apply to Cork this season, but it’s a very difficult process to rack up the wins, points means prizes!

[El-Pietro]

Its too early to be worrying about 2018/19 yet. The whole system is going to change,going back to 10 years rather than 5, and with the top 4 leagues getting 16 automatic places.

The Irish Champions will likely be starting in the first round as a seeded team next year - I think it will be impossible for any Irish team to enter in the second round, and being seeded would be very difficult as well even if they do qualify for that round.

We're definitely not seeded in the EL this year anyway. Needed another point at least for that. Some interesting seeds in the Northern region though as things stand. Linfield, Cliftonville Aberdeen and Rangers all in there. I'd fancy a cut off any of those. But on the other end of the scale, Legia Warsaw, AIK Solna and IFK Gotenburg terrify me.

I'd love a trip to Eastern Europe, Latvia or Estonia for example. I think it would be an interesting tie and an adventure. But I also see our old friends KR in there. We've come a long way since that dark (not literally, there was no nighttime) afternoon in Iceland.

[EatYerGreens]

Its too early to be worrying about 2018/19 yet. The whole system is going to change,going back to 10 years rather than 5, and with the top 4 leagues getting 16 automatic places.

The Irish Champions will likely be starting in the first round as a seeded team next year - I think it will be impossible for any Irish team to enter in the second round, and being seeded would be very difficult as well even if they do qualify for that round.

We're definitely not seeded in the EL this year anyway. Needed another point at least for that. Some interesting seeds in the Northern region though as things stand. Linfield, Cliftonville Aberdeen and Rangers all in there. I'd fancy a cut off any of those. But on the other end of the scale, Legia Warsaw, AIK Solna and IFK Gotenburg terrify me.

I'd love a trip to Eastern Europe, Latvia or Estonia for example. I think it would be an interesting tie and an adventure. But I also see our old friends KR in there. We've come a long way since that dark (not literally, there was no nighttime) afternoon in Iceland.

Swedish teams have a poor European record against Irish clubs this century though. Including IFKG

[bennocelt]

Heh, an even earlier bird already got there before you: http://foot.ie/threads/217098-League-of-Ireland-in-Europe-2017

:)

Ha yes Danny, sorry forgot about that:p

[legendz]

The richest clubs want to exclude lower league champions altogether. Not just happy to have 4 automatic places for the top 4 leagues, they want to reduce the Champions League from 32 to 24 so they have to share less of the big money pot.

[TheBoss]

The last time all LOI sides were all unseeded was in 2006/07, that turned out to be reasonable year.

[Finlay Harp]

Ah stop teasing me with all this European talk. I feel like a poor boy looking in the window of a wealthy persons house on Christmas morning!

[legendz]

The last time all LOI sides were all unseeded was in 2006/07, that turned out to be reasonable year.Hopefully this will be a reasonable year as well as the seedings, draws and ties themselves are played out. Dundalk and Cork have raised respect levels towards the league.

While they might not bring pressure upon themselves by saying it publicly, I'm sure the Dundalk management staff will be aspiring to get to the playoff rounds at least. Cork I imagine will be looking to get another shot at making the playoffs by getting back to Q3.

[Eminence Grise]

Henceforth, Finlay Harp, you shall be known as Tiny Fin.

Gawd bless us, ev'ryone!:D

[nigel-harps1954]

Honestly, I don't see Dundalk getting too far this year. They're absolutely miles away from where they were last year. League hopes rest with Cork this season. If we get one team through one round, that'll be the height of it.