League of Ireland in Europe 2017

[El-Pietro]

If you're ever bored go on to any English football teams forum and read what they have to say about James McClean.

[dundalkfc10]

They are just a little bit anti-Irish.....

They have Irish players!

[Dalymountrower]

ah c'mon Dalymountrower even I would cheer for Bohs against that lot

Will be an interesting test to determine whether football rivalry mellows with advancing years, though I do remember cheering for Shels when they played a brilliant first half and took a big lead against Rangers when the "home "game was played in Tranmere, (18 years ago?) although then being not disappointed when they blew that lead

[PartySaint]

Will be an interesting test to determine whether football rivalry mellows with advancing years, though I do remember cheering for Shels when they played a brilliant first half and took a big lead against Rangers when the "home "game was played in Tranmere, (18 years ago?) although then being not disappointed when they blew that lead

22nd of July 1998, Pats played Celtic in Celtic Park in the Champions League qualifiers on the same night and drew 0-0

[legendz]

LoI teams in the European qualifiers is usually more entertaining and interesting than the GAA championships pre the All-Ireland series.

It'll be hard to match the exploits of last season. LoI champions have a poor record of not getting through CLQ2. LoI clubs in the EL have a good record of getting past Q1 but not Q2. I think the Belgian team that beat Cork in Q3 went as far as the EL quarter-finals last season.

With a favourable draw etc., I'll be hopeful that Dundalk and Cork will make Q3 in their respective competitions. A few relatively successful seasons, be it one club reaching a play-off round, will enhance the league's reputation.

[El-Pietro]

Its all down to the draw. City (or Derry or Rovers) making the playoff round is nearly impossible due to being unseeded. It looks especially tough in the first round this year.

[sbgawa]

By that lot I assume you mean Rangers? Why? Why are Rangers remotely relevant? Just another European team, as are their rivals. I honestly couldn't care how they do in that league, no more than I care about the Dutch or Belgian leagues. I was going to say I wouldn't cross the street to watch them but thats not true, if I was in their town I'd go along to a game same as I would in any country.

Well it was listening to a whole stadium sing anti irish song scc that kind of makes me pull against them. There are other English clubs that are anti irish but not quite so overtly.

[EatYerGreens]

So, Sean Maguire off to Preston at the end of July. How many games could he play for Cork in Europa League before that?

Preston seem to be the only club in Britain who've properly clocked on to the talent in the LOI.

[legendz]

Preston seem to be the only club in Britain who've properly clocked on to the talent in the LOI.There are many so-called football supporters in Ireland who would be doing well to clock on to that as well. It reflects well on the league that players are quickly transitioning to the competitive second tier across the water and also integrating quickly with the international setup.

[Nesta99]

There are many so-called football supporters in Ireland who would be doing well to clock on to that as well. It reflects well on the league that players are quickly transitioning to the competitive second tier across the water and also integrating quickly with the international setup.

It does reflect well and if Maguire is a success on top of Horgan and Boyle and PNE are in the hunt for promotion you might see a surge in player drain as English clubs from the lower tiers take a punt and player go for the money even for 2 or 3 years and then back. Sadly for every time ive heard Horgan and Boyle mentioned positively among the English game obsessed football fans, i have heard double the amount scoff at Towell and Hoban to a lesser extent. It will be an interesting time at Deepdale come August.

[legendz]

Sadly for every time ive heard Horgan and Boyle mentioned positively among the English game obsessed football fans, i have heard double the amount scoff at Towell and Hoban to a lesser extent. It will be an interesting time at Deepdale come August.Why sadly? I wouldn't be getting bothered by the limitations of those lacking the football knowledge and capacity, and completely ignorant of the league due to their own ineptness. Not every player who goes to England from the Dutch league is a success either.

I'd imagine English won't be taking a punt on LoI players for the sake of it. They have and will have their scouts at games here. It's a great time for LoI players with the league being noticed by those in the know. If players are performing consistently well and naturally gave the talent, their LoI performances are putting them in the shop window for decent wages on 2 or 3 year contracts that can set them up reasonable well for even after their careers come to an end.

There's an incentive there now for players to stay on in the league up to the ages of 21 to 23. If players are good enough, clubs will come calling. There should be know panic nor great necessity to head over at a young age.

[Nesta99]

Sadly that they exist at all and choose to balance the positive impact of one or two players after recent moves to be dismissive of their stock due to another players lack of game time. Sadly 'cause such dim and or narrow minded people exist and miss the amount of former LoI players that have carved out good careers across the English leagues from Southend United up to our international squad. It is also sad that if English clubs start paying attention again and they sign up players it may weaken our product. Any signing from the relative unknown scouting or not is taking a punt - would Oxford sign Hoban if they could do it all again. We will be watching Maguire with interest to see if he cuts it considering his blistering form here but there are no guarantees. Even with bags of knowledge on players we payed a transfer fee for Kilduff(?) and Horgan...

[ccfcman]

Preston seem to be the only club in Britain who've properly clocked on to the talent in the LOI.

The lovely club aka Reading had their time already.

[sbgawa]

LOI clubs need to start signing up their best prospects to longer contracts or we will see our best players heading off with little or no money coming in

[Ezeikial]

LOI clubs need to start signing up their best prospects to longer contracts or we will see our best players heading off with little or no money coming in

The St Pats experience with Jason Gavin and others illustrate the other side of that debate

[legendz]

LOI clubs need to start signing up their best prospects to longer contracts or we will see our best players heading off with little or no money coming inHave any clubs got the finances available to viably commit to longterm contacts? The financial rewards in the league aren't great and money from European is exploits is dependent on progress in knockout competition. Cork and Dundalk seem to be operating very well within their financial limitations without the need for gambling on European progress.

[sbgawa]

Best prospects only. How much did dundalk lose out on horgan and boyle.....and with maguire and delaney heading over other English clubs are bound to start looking.

[sbgawa]

It's one extra year on the normal contracts offered and wouldn't neccesarily be to the highest earners.

[nigel-harps1954]

It's one extra year on the normal contracts offered and wouldn't neccesarily be to the highest earners.

How do the clubs find the money to pay the players during the off-season though? That's the primary reason for one year deals here.

[sbgawa]

Have to go to 52 week contract for the first year but if you've a guy earning 500 a week ...12 weeks extra is only 6k. I know thats not nothing but in the context of a decent transfer fee it's probably worth a chance.
I think rovers and dundalk are 52 wks already

[sbgawa]

Plus if they are paid for 52 wks they can do promotional or comunity work for the club.

[pineapple stu]

Don't think a 52-week contract is a requirement for a two-year deal?

If I sign up for E200 a week for 36 weeks, and do it for 2017 and 2018, then I've signed a 2-year-deal surely?

[sbgawa]

Fair point , don't know.
I suppose the club could say it's a 52 wk contract during which you are paid 200 a wk during season and 1 euro in off season. Still think with the lack of staff at most clubs and amount of work to be done having a couple of extra people around for the off season is an investment in a different way.

[pineapple stu]

I don't think they even need to do that tbh.

It should be enough to have the player saying they've signed up for both 2017 and 2018.

Agree that there'd be work for a couple of players over pre-season alright.

[jinxy lilywhite]

If I remember correctly 2016 contracts terms were offered for more than 1 years for our key players and all apparently were advised by agents to keep the contracts down to a min (especially in Horgan's case).

In 2013 kenny signed all the players man to man. In 2014 everyone of them had agents. It's the way it is over here. Longer contracts don't suit the top players because they are advised that it's an impediment to them going to England

[legendz]

Fair point , don't know.
I suppose the club could say it's a 52 wk contract during which you are paid 200 a wk during season and 1 euro in off season. Still think with the lack of staff at most clubs and amount of work to be done having a couple of extra people around for the off season is an investment in a different way.
Are players entitled to social welfare payments during the off season? It might be in there best interests to be paid their annual wage within the 40 weeks or so of the season.

[legendz]

Longer contracts don't suit the top players because they are advised that it's an impediment to them going to EnglandIt's a gamble on their part, if they get injured, are they covered by insurance when their season contract runs out?

[blueblood]

Have to go to 52 week contract for the first year but if you've a guy earning 500 a week ...12 weeks extra is only 6k. I know thats not nothing but in the context of a decent transfer fee it's probably worth a chance.
I think rovers and dundalk are 52 wks already

In the off season they get a couple of grand off the dole, I think the players would prefer getting paid more over 42 weeks + dole for 10 weeks.

[pineapple stu]

Well, only if they don't have a full-time job elsewhere.

[legendz]

In the off season they get a couple of grand off the dole, I think the players would prefer getting paid more over 42 weeks + dole for 10 weeks.
Is it the dole or will they have built up enough social stamps or whatever it is that their contributions over 9 months covers their social payments for 3 months?

[Ezeikial]

There is no necessity for 52 week contracts for 2 year or 3 year deals.

Rovers have been signing players to 40 week per season / 2 years deals for some time now

As others have pointed out the top player prospects have no desire to sign long term deals and limit their bargaining power if a UK club comes in for them. This applies to almost all the recent high profile transfers - Sean Maguire, Daryl Horgan, Andy Boyle, Richie Towell & Patrick Hoban ( I dont know the contract positions with Chris Forrester or Kevin O'Connor)

Their only risk is of a major injury, as even if a UK clubs does not come in for them, they know that they are in a position to negotiate top money on a new LoI contract

[legendz]

Cork and Dundalk are benefiting themselves from the top performances of these star players so it's working out reasonably well for them, though they naturally would prefer to get more reasonable transfer fees.

Is playing for the top 4 or 5 teams in the League of Ireland Premier Division now better than playing in England's League One for securing a move to the Championship?

[sbgawa]

Rovers are 52 wks now

[Charlie Darwin]

Best prospects only. How much did dundalk lose out on horgan and boyle.....and with maguire and delaney heading over other English clubs are bound to start looking.
They didn't lose out on anything. They made millions because they signed them up to short-term deals and they made the Europa groups because of it. As long as clubs can't offer six figures a year, which they shouldn't and can't, 1-2 year contracts are it.

[Charlie Darwin]

Are players entitled to social welfare payments during the off season? It might be in there best interests to be paid their annual wage within the 40 weeks or so of the season.
It depends on their earnings. A guy on €50k won't get SW but someone on €200 a week obviously will.

[sbgawa]

They didn't lose out on anything. They made millions because they signed them up to short-term deals and they made the Europa groups because of it. As long as clubs can't offer six figures a year, which they shouldn't and can't, 1-2 year contracts are it.


That's true Charlie but Dundalk last year were the exception and with the changes UEFA have made it is even harder now to repeat what Rovers and Dundalk did.
Transfer income if English clubs start shopping here more often could be vital.
There is no right 100% answer here but if you have a couple of youngish players <24 who are key men in your team how much of a risk really is it to offer a 2 year contract rather than a one year one and protect yourself.

[outspoken]

Biggest problem is any player who thinks he has half a chance of getting a move to England will only sign a one year deal

[Charlie Darwin]

That's true Charlie but Dundalk last year were the exception and with the changes UEFA have made it is even harder now to repeat what Rovers and Dundalk did.
Transfer income if English clubs start shopping here more often could be vital.
There is no right 100% answer here but if you have a couple of youngish players <24 who are key men in your team how much of a risk really is it to offer a 2 year contract rather than a one year one and protect yourself.
Clubs do offer two-year deals.

For the most part, the top players say "hahaha no, I'll have a one-year deal thanks".

[osarusan]

I thought I read somewhere that it wasn't legal to have a contract that pays a player say €600 a week during the season and say €250 in the off season.

[pesky]

Just wondering, does anyone know what kind of money the top players at say Dundalk Rovers and Cork would be on, ballpark figures.

[Ezeikial]

I thought I read somewhere that it wasn't legal to have a contract that pays a player say €600 a week during the season and say €250 in the off season.

Not just is that legal, as outlined earlier a club could pay nothing in the close season and still have the player contracted for the following season

[ToberonaTornado]

Dundalk potential opponents in Europe.(Not my work - via https://twitter.com/niallnewberry )
Draw next Monday.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCI_-H4XoAAvacl.jpg

[Longfordian]

Clubs do offer two-year deals.

For the most part, the top players say "hahaha no, I'll have a one-year deal thanks".

Do two simultaneous one year contracts count as a two year deal? Asking for some Northern friends.

[seand]

Dundalk potential opponents in Europe.(Not my work - via https://twitter.com/niallnewberry )
Draw next Monday.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCI_-H4XoAAvacl.jpg



Not sure why Legia and BATE are considered less likely opponents that the other northern European teams, unless the poster knows something I don't

[El-Pietro]

Wishful thinking perhaps?

[PartySaint]

Red Star and BATE were in Dundalks group last season in the second round draw but the Swedish champions weren't seeded, they will be this year so it'll most like be one of Legia, Salzburg and BATE who will make up the other place in that group

[Yossarian]

Red Star and BATE were in Dundalks group last season in the second round draw but the Swedish champions weren't seeded, they will be this year so it'll most like be one of Legia, Salzburg and BATE who will make up the other place in that group

I would imagine it will be Legia or BATE as they like to spread the seeds in each group so that there is a mix of high and low seeded teams, and the same for the unseeded teams.

[legendz]

Dundalk potential opponents in Europe.(Not my work - via https://twitter.com/niallnewberry )
Draw next Monday.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCI_-H4XoAAvacl.jpg

Difficult potential opponents in that group. One slight advantage from next season is the Europa League safety net.

[sparky12345678]

the Europa League safety net.
has that been confirmed?

[legendz]

has that been confirmed?I thought it was. Following your question, I went looking further.

I can't find any official access list for 2018-19. A usually good reliable source has the following: https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/AccessList2018.html