League of Ireland in Europe 2017

[Ezeikial]

It seems Bohs are not too eager to switch their league game with Dundalk because of likely lower mid-week gate



DFC | Dundalk FC call on the FAI to help with their Champions League preparations

Lilywhites scheduled to face Bohemians before European opener


https://dundalksport.ie/dfc-dundalk-fc-call-on-the-fai-to-help-with-their-champions-league-preparations-add75d25d9c5

[Mr A]

Don't see why Bohs should take a hit to facilitate Dundalk.

[nigel-harps1954]

This cancelling of fixtures is absolutely ridiculous and does damage to the likes of Bohs and other clubs who could do with the money.

There's nothing to stop Dundalk playing their league games on Friday or Saturday nights and those in Europa action playing on Sundays between games.

[EatYerGreens]

Don't see why Bohs should take a hit to facilitate Dundalk.

Exactly.

Particularly as Dundalk will be handsomely paid for European appearances.

[sidcon]

We moved a game for Dundalk last year and it cost us the guts of 10k as the game turned out to be a dead rubber with both teams having positions confirm by the time it was rescheduled, our board has told them no this year as we operate off a shoestring and every bit counts and were not looking out this year, it's only Fair.

[nigel-harps1954]

Harps are to ask the FAI to have the Derry game in Finn Park to be played on the Sunday between their Europa League fixtures in an attempt to avoid a midweek game too.

[legendz]

Clubs participating in European competition have got to continue on with their domestic games as well. A game should only be moved if a team has a European game on a Tuesday having played on the previous Wednesday.

If Dundalk have European games on successive Tuesdays, they should fulfil domestic fixtures on the Friday evening. If Dundalk have European games on successive Wednesdays, they should be able to fulfil domestic fixtures on the Saturday.

If the Europa League representatives have European games on successive Thursdays, they should be able to fulfil domestic fixtures on the Sunday.

[sbgawa]

EPL teams don't cancel their fixtures and irish clubs shouldnt either. If dundalk want to switch their game with Bohs they should pay bohs 15k in lieu of lost gate receipts. Ditto for rovers derry and cork.

[jinxy lilywhite]

Minnowism

[Briuk]

I say the same year after year and I just can't understand how the FAI is so stupid with this.
Why don't they put the holiday week conceding with the first week of European games so at least the teams playing the first round we play of Europa League don't need to change one of the games.

[sulywaterfordfc]

Teams sign 23/24 man squads for a reason. If Dundalk are worried about there best 11 getting injured or tired going into the European game. Then there's no reason why they can't make changes to the team and use there squad. After all that's what the squad is for. On top of that leagues over, not as though they've to worry about losing ground on Cork.

Other clubs shouldn't have to take a hit financially because clubs in Europe want a extra day or two off. Home games against the likes of Dundalk are a big attraction so there's even the chance if it's a Friday game a bigger then average crowd may be in attendance. Obviously if the games clashing its different story and can't be help. But the FAI imo should plan the none Europe clubs against us each other likewise the clubs in Europe so it's mainly just the four clubs in Europe affected and not the rest.

[Charlie Darwin]

Far be it from me to stick up for Bohs but it is unfair on them to expect them to move games to midweek. It's a game they're unlikely to get points from anyway, but to expect a part time team to compete on half a week's rest so a full time team can have a week to prepare for a match is ridiculous. I'd say the same if it was Rovers.

[sparky12345678]

Its mad that the FAI cant forsee these scheduling problems esp for the first round of gaurenteed European games. Either schedule them well in advance on the Sundays in between or schedule the holiday week during that time. It must be tough if its an away game somewhere tricky which might affect it. But ultimately the games have to be played and what happened last year was a pile up of games at the end of the league when it was tougher competition (the St. Petersbourg double header comes to mind)...

[patrickccfc]

Yeah for the first round it's a no brainer to schedule the games around that. It couldn't be difficult to work it out that the teams that are in Europe to play each other the Sunday or Monday after a European game instead of it affecting the teams that are not in it.

[ArFella]

I say the same year after year and I just can't understand how the FAI is so stupid with this.
Why don't they put the holiday week conceding with the first week of European games so at least the teams playing the first round we play of Europa League don't need to change one of the games.

I think the point of the holiday week is to give the players a chance to take holidays, they are just regular people like ourselves remember, so I don't think it's fair to punish the players on the European teams by taking that away.

[micls]

Completely understandable from Bohs. I understand trying to give the Euro teams the best chance of success, but it's unfair on other teams suffering for it. If the other team doesn't mind, great. But really this should be all avoided by proper advance planning in the fixtures.

[seand]

It's a tricky one. I think the league/FAI has an obligation to help clubs in Europe if we actually want to the league to improve. Proper planning of the fixture list would help.

Any clubs fecked around, like Bohs, could be compensated out of the FAI's solidarity payment (which will certainly be ring-fenced for the league, right?!) or from a contribution of, say, 1% of Euro prize money into a solidarity fund. Maybe something like 10K for a home game moved to midweek, and 2K for an away game moved to midweek would help keep everyone onside.

Bohs were badly fecked over last season with the Wexford game. Dundalk should have had at least one game pulled forward to before the break but ended up in a situation where the FAI had no choice but to rearrange domestic fixtures around Dundalk's EL games. The 12 games played by Dundalk in 2016 and Rovers in 2011 will remain an exception though, I'd expect.

[refjohn]

I say the same year after year and I just can't understand how the FAI is so stupid with this.
Why don't they put the holiday week conceding with the first week of European games so at least the teams playing the first round we play of Europa League don't need to change one of the games.

Why can we not have the Euro teams playing each other through July? It couldn't be that hard to schedule and then they can move to their heart's content as it only hits the 4 of them. We dont need to play teams in sequence over 3 rounds - so a computer could easily rejig fixtures so that July sees Euro teams play each other (even twice) and non-Euro teams play each other.

Obviously if a team does what Rovers and Dundalk have done in Europa League I think more flexibility from other teams is fair to ask for - but the first couple of rounds in Europe are plannable.

[Philosophizer]

I think the point of the holiday week is to give the players a chance to take holidays, they are just regular people like ourselves remember, so I don't think it's fair to punish the players on the European teams by taking that away.

Do they actually take holidays though??

Maybe they drop a session or 2 on the 1st week of the break, but it's hardly any more than that, so what's the point.

[El-Pietro]

Most players were away for most of last week, some of ours didn't get back until Sunday/Monday

[Philosophizer]

Most players were away for most of last week, some of ours didn't get back until Sunday/Monday

I stand corrected.

Is this true for most clubs. Would senior players get a week off to head abroad and sun themselves or whatever?

[ArFella]

I stand corrected.

Is this true for most clubs. Would senior players get a week off to head abroad and sun themselves or whatever?

Yeah I think so, I saw a tweet from a journalist after the last games, can't remember which one, and he said around 70% of the league fly out on holiday today, whether that number is a ballpark figure or not I don't know but I know many Dundalk players went away for a couple of days anyway.

[Mark]

The PFAI have always requested (demanded??!!) a break of at least one week. It's too allow, among other reasons, players go on holidays with their children when the children are off school. Though the age profile of players would suggest that if they have children, those children are more likely to be in junior school rather than secondary - even though it's the secondary children who are off in June!

[dundalkfc10]

Yeah I think so, I saw a tweet from a journalist after the last games, can't remember which one, and he said around 70% of the league fly out on holiday today, whether that number is a ballpark figure or not I don't know but I know many Dundalk players went away for a couple of days anyway.

Think our players were off from Cork game Fri night to Thursday when the squad went to Fota Island to train until Tuesday.

Lets hope the training week, has the same affect this season once Europe comes around

[micls]

It's a tricky one. I think the league/FAI has an obligation to help clubs in Europe if we actually want to the league to improve. Proper planning of the fixture list would help.

Any clubs fecked around, like Bohs, could be compensated out of the FAI's solidarity payment (which will certainly be ring-fenced for the league, right?!) or from a contribution of, say, 1% of Euro prize money into a solidarity fund. Maybe something like 10K for a home game moved to midweek, and 2K for an away game moved to midweek would help keep everyone onside.

Bohs were badly fecked over last season with the Wexford game. Dundalk should have had at least one game pulled forward to before the break but ended up in a situation where the FAI had no choice but to rearrange domestic fixtures around Dundalk's EL games. The 12 games played by Dundalk in 2016 and Rovers in 2011 will remain an exception though, I'd expect.

I think it's tough to argue that getting results in Europe actually improves the league. Sure, you can argue it gains publicity for the league like Dundalk did last year, but did other clubs see a bump in interest or attendance as a result? It would be interesting to see if they did, but without any evidence that they did why should they really care if the teams in Europe do well? Especially to their detriment.

I agree on the proper planning point though.

[micls]

The draw will NOT be regionalised according to this site. https://www.rangersobserver.com/news/2017/6/15/rangers-to-face-open-european-draw

[ger121]

The draw will NOT be regionalised according to this site. https://www.rangersobserver.com/news/2017/6/15/rangers-to-face-open-european-draw


Well that's just made things a lot harder on multiple levels.

[seand]

That regionalisation story doesn't seem to be confirmed anywhere. There's been no formal regionalisation in the regulations since 2009, but it has happened each year since.

[Pablo Escobar]

That regionalisation story doesn't seem to be confirmed anywhere. There's been no formal regionalisation in the regulations since 2009, but it has happened each year since.
Also, I'm pretty sure that they only decide on it within 24 hours of the draw.

[micls]

It's up on the official rangers website now, which adds some amount of credibility.

[micls]

That would seem mad. What would the logic behind that be? They've known the teams for a week. They're hardly there Sunday trying to get the teams into equal groups.

[Johnnie C]

It's up on the official rangers website now, which adds some amount of credibility.
Nothing credible about that shower.

[legendz]

Dundalk balanced domestic fixtures and Europa League group games very well. Teams in European competitions have to get on with playing domestic games at least 3 days after a European game and at least 4 days before their next European game.

Clubs themselves know in advance they are going to be in European action. They have to use their squads accordingly. It's up to the clubs to find the right balance of relative success in Europe while challenging for domestic honours. It's not the place of their domestic rivals to assist them.

[brendy_éire]

Not sure if this is any more trustworthy, but the Scottish Sun don't reckon there'll be regionalisation either.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/1129707/europa-league-draw-rangers-aberdeen-st-johnstone/

[El-Pietro]

Sounds like multiple outlets quoting each other

[samhaydenjr]

Cork and Dundalk are benefiting themselves from the top performances of these star players so it's working out reasonably well for them, though they naturally would prefer to get more reasonable transfer fees.

Is playing for the top 4 or 5 teams in the League of Ireland Premier Division now better than playing in England's League One for securing a move to the Championship?

By my count, according to this article, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfers/10850029/League-One-Summer-Transfers-2014.html, there were 19 players transferred to Championship clubs from the 21 clubs who started the 2014-15 League One season and hadn't just been relegated from the Championship. So you'd have to have about four or five players going to Championship clubs per year to match this. If we want start thinking about the League of Ireland's upper half as being on a par with League One, you'd also need to have a bunch of players being picked up by bigger League One clubs (I know this has happened a little recently, with the likes of Forrester and Browne). I think we're still a bit off that level - the League is probably more at a level where a handful of young talented players, who might otherwise be squeezed out in the English system, can rack up some consistent game time experience early in their careers rather than bouncing around from club to club struggling to make an impression, which itself is a good thing.

[nigel-harps1954]

By my count, according to this article, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfers/10850029/League-One-Summer-Transfers-2014.html, there were 19 players transferred to Championship clubs from the 21 clubs who started the 2014-15 League One season and hadn't just been relegated from the Championship. So you'd have to have about four or five players going to Championship clubs per year to match this. If we want start thinking about the League of Ireland's upper half as being on a par with League One, you'd also need to have a bunch of players being picked up by bigger League One clubs (I know this has happened a little recently, with the likes of Forrester and Browne). I think we're still a bit off that level - the League is probably more at a level where a handful of young talented players, who might otherwise be squeezed out in the English system, can rack up some consistent game time experience early in their careers rather than bouncing around from club to club struggling to make an impression, which itself is a good thing.

So, if we want the League of Ireland to be considered as good a league as League One, we need to sell more of our best players to League One sides? I don't see your logic whatsoever.

Do you really gauge the level of a league by how many players move on from it?

Essentially, everything you wrote is a complete load of nonsense, and a lot of it quite ignorant in all honesty.

[Straightstory]

I think it's tough to argue that getting results in Europe actually improves the league. Sure, you can argue it gains publicity for the league like Dundalk did last year, but did other clubs see a bump in interest or attendance as a result? It would be interesting to see if they did, but without any evidence that they did why should they really care if the teams in Europe do well? Especially to their detriment.

I agree on the proper planning point though.

I've been following the league since the early 70s. and the BEST thing that's happened in that time was Dundalk's performances in Europe last year. It's the ONLY thing that brings the league to the general public's attention. Clubs who have qualified for Europe should make those games their no 1 priority. I'm hopeful that Dundalk can make an impact again this year. Not sure if Cork are set up as well for European competition, but am really hoping that they can bring some of their league form into the Europa.

[sparky12345678]

In terms of competing at a European level we should be looking at different leagues around Europe. Austria for example loses many of its best players to Germany, Football (clubs or even the national team) is also not really considered the National Sport or popular spectator pastime at least in the mainstream. Every time i bring up their league its universally dismissed as low standard, even among the fans who attend Sturm Graz games etc. Despite that they have a decent system in place, decent performances in Europe and decent representaton on the national team etc.
Discussing the northern leagues is also interesting in terms of the infrastructure theyve put in place.
Also I thought the article (http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/lions-tour/it-was-come-to-dunedin-or-go-on-the-dole-again-the-former-loi-stars-making-a-life-in-new-zealand-35835707.html)about the Wexford lads in New Zealand was interesting... in that it showed even in a place like New Zealand, with "low standard" of football and not a fully professional system, the lads have better prospects by involvement in coaching and promotion in the underage system etc (it was interesting that they noted that football has a higher participation rate than rugby although the standard and the popularity is obv much higher for rugby)
While European success is important to capture the imagination of barstoolers/wider public the infrastructure is really not there to maintain consistency and importantly any time there is success the best players will disappear for a pitance to England.
At present it seems clear that the league can only reasonably maintain 2-3 solid competitive teams at a High level. Success in Europe wont save/improve this league... the current system needs uprooting and investment and proper linkups with junior football etc

[micls]

Best thing by what metric though? Have attendances actually increased as a result? Across the league?

Getting people talking about the league is one thing, and I agree it's great. And for a fan, it's incredibly rewarding to see people care. But it's a long way from there to bums on seats. And without actual figures to support it, I doubt very much that the likes of Bohs have seen positive gains financially as a result of it.

[legendz]

Every time i bring up their league its universally dismissed as low standard, even among the fans who attend Sturm Graz games etc.Steiermark is a hidden gem.


While European success is important to capture the imagination of barstoolers/wider public the infrastructure is really not there to maintain consistency and importantly any time there is success the best players will disappear for a pitance to England.That's the challenge for Cork and Dundalk. They both seem to raising standards to be fair. Replacing departing stars is all part and parcel of being relatively successful as they have been of late.

England was being held up for scrutiny when they were in danger of losing a CL place to Italy, before the new changes were made. It's not just the LoI that is judged on European performances.

[sparky12345678]

I think that is exactly the point. Atm England's performance in Europe has dropped off. Does that mean its not as good a league as the Spanish league for example (a passing fan might think that La Liga is just Real Madrid plus Barcalona head above the rest in contrast to the the more competetive Premier League... that however neglects to account for strong performances of Atleti, Seville etc in both Champions League and Europa League...). All across Europe leagues are being judged on their success. The decline of Serbian clubs/pedigree in Europe demonstrates the decline in standard there in contrast to the relatve success of a small club from a small country; Maribor. Or even closer to home Celtic's dominance of Scotland but failure to sparkle in Europe (even EL success would be nice) shows the decline there. Dutch clubs in comparison can be prouder I suppose of their progress.
Europe is important. It did get people talking. People were quite aware to what was going on... The same happened to a limited degree with Rovers but I still remember the hype surrounding Drogheda's tie with Kiev and im sure older people also saw positive spin when Shels did well.. So it is good for the coefficient (at least up to 2017 lol) and it was also good for PR. That it does not necessarily bring in more bums on seats is not really the point ie European success will not solve the leagues problems. We need to tackle them at their roots. I just wish European success would draw attention to the positives and focus the FAI on recognising the benefits for local football all the way up to the national team etc. It seems theyd rather schedule nice bumper games in Aviva, "domestic" football be dammed...But I also think it needs to go beyond FAI as an institution there needs to be more grassroots bottom up stuff going on to connect with people the way GAA does, the way Rugby does.

[geysir]

That regionalisation story doesn't seem to be confirmed anywhere. There's been no formal regionalisation in the regulations since 2009, but it has happened each year since.
UEFA do not formally regionalise the EL draw anymore. Just before the draw, the seeded and and unseeded teams will be placed (using some secret maneuver) into various pots. Nevertheless, for the first qual round the team distribution into these various pots does have an informal (not strictly applied) regional influence, but from the 2nd round onward, regionalising is not longer at play in the draw.

[pineapple stu]

FC Basel won the underage league in Switzerland at the weekend; that's 5/8 for UCD now to reach the UEFA Youth League. Starting to look very positive.

[DannyInvincible]

European observers on Bert Kassies' forum are suggesting that Cork (http://kassiesa.net/uefa/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4295) and Dundalk (http://kassiesa.net/uefa/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4294) are the unseeded teams to be avoided in tomorrow's draws.

[Yossarian]

The seeding groups for the Champions League are out and Dundalk can get Celtic, Legia, Maribor, Malmo, Rosenborg or FH. We'll be looking for FH again with a bit of luck.

[refjohn]

Europa League Seedings

Group 7
Seeded
Haugesund (NOR) 4.165
Ventspils (LVA) 5.725
Vaduz (LIE) 4.450
Midtjylland (DEN) 16.300
Domžale (SVN) 4.125

Unseeded
Derry City (IRL) 2.315
Flora Tallinn (EST) 3.050
Bala Town (WAL) 1.525
Valur Reykjavík (ISL) 1.925
Coleraine (NIR) 0.900

Group 8
Seeded
Stjarnan (ISL) 4.175
St Johnstone (SCO) 6.535
Olimpija Ljubljana (SVN) 4.625
Dinamo Minsk (BLR) 10.975
Crusaders (NIR) 3.900

Unseeded
NSÍ Runavík (FRO) 1.450
Liepāja (LVA) 2.225
VPS Vaasa (FIN) 2.030
Trakai (LTU) 1.575
Shamrock Rovers (IRL) 3.065

Group 9
Seeded
IFK Norrköping (SWE) 4.945
Odd (NOR) 5.665
HJK Helsinki (FIN) 10.530
Ferencváros (HUN) 3.900
Nõmme Kalju (EST) 4.800

Unseeded
Jelgava (LVA) 2.975
B36 Tórshavn (FRO) 2.450
Connah's Quay Nomads (WAL) 1.275
Ballymena United (NIR) 0.900
Prishtina (KOS) 0.000

Group 10
Seeded
AIK (SWE) 9.945
Shakhtyor Soligorsk (BLR) 7.475
KR Reykjavík (ISL) 5.175
Lyngby (DEN) 4.800
Levadia Tallinn (EST) 4.050

Unseeded
Bangor City (WAL) 1.275
Cork City (IRL) 2.565
SJK Seinäjoki (FIN) 2.780
Sūduva (LTU) 1.825
KÍ Klaksvík (FRO) 0.700

[gspain01]

UEFA do not formally regionalise the EL draw anymore. Just before the draw, the seeded and and unseeded teams will be placed (using some secret maneuver) into various pots. Nevertheless, for the first qual round the team distribution into these various pots does have an informal (not strictly applied) regional influence, but from the 2nd round onward, regionalising is not longer at play in the draw.

Looking at the Champions League groups they have maintained some level of regionalisation but have still allowed for new pairings. Teams from Lithuania and Latvia can play in Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan but they have avoided sending teams from north west Europe on the really long journeys. I hope that will continue for the Europa League as a trip to Azerbaijan/Kazakhstan would be very very expensive for our clubs.

[El-Pietro]

Rovers have to be happy with that group. Derry have a tough side in Midtylland and a tricky travel option in Haugesand. Other than they hey should be happy. Beat Ventspils and you're seeded in the second round.
As for us, couple of good options, couple of tough options. I'm happy enough given how hard it could have been.

[Philosophizer]

The seeding groups for the Champions League are out and Dundalk can get Celtic, Legia, Maribor, Malmo, Rosenborg or FH. We'll be looking for FH again with a bit of luck.

Rosenborg aren't the force they used to be. Sligo beat them 2-1 in Trondheim a few years ago, albeit they lost the tie 3-4 on aggregate. FH would be the perfect draw all right, but i wouldn't be too upset if they got Rosenborg or even Maribor.

Celtic, Legia and Malmo are a different level though. They would be extremely difficult ties.