Trap Out and/or Delaney Out

[geysir]

Saying Austria had little to offer in the 2nd half, is saying we had less than little.

If we performed in an away game like Austria did in the 2nd half, the performance would be rightly applauded and the equaliser seen as deserved.

[tetsujin1979]

Austria have played the two weakest sides in the group more than the other teams, so they're in a bit of a false position, and as Stutts has pointed out effectively two points down on us after drawing away against Kazakhstan.
I think that four points from the return double header in September, along with victories over the Faroes and Kazakhstan will at least keep us in contention for second spot, but we are depending on Sweden to drop points.

[Bungle]

I think we probably need something really special to get second, like winning both games in the double header. We certainly need to beat Sweden in Dublin, whatever about winning in Vienna. If we don't take 6 points from the double header, then we certainly need a draw in Germany to cancel out the Swedes result there. I would be a bit concerned about the fact that the worst 2nd placed team doesn't even make the play-offs.

[paul_oshea]

Ya i think what stutts point was though, that if we manage to get 2nd we will have done something special i.e. won both games and drawn with germany and that will be enough to finish above 2nd place in The Svizra group - we wont fall over the line into 2nd place.

[ArdeeBhoy]

We won't qualify with Trap in charge for the duration. It's as simple as that.

[gustavo]

Cheers for clearing that one up , Won't bother watching the rest of the games now that the oracle has spoken.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yes, but know I'm right.
;)
Put yer money where your mouth is.
€100 we won't qualify, to a charity of yer choice, if we do.

[Closed Account 2]

Any thoughts on Bert van Marwijk? Personally I'd like to see him as manager next campaign, but I think he would be very unpopular on here, as his teams play functional football (which some might think is too negative) and he likes defensive midfielders (again probably not popular with some on here). He's out of work since Euro 2012.

[ArdeeBhoy]

For home games, even Stan had a better record?
Granted his away one was poor.

[tetsujin1979]

For home games, even Stan had a better record?
Granted his away one was poor.
does beating Slovakia mean it was better?

[DeLorean]

We held Cyprus as well.

[Gather round]

Yes, but know I'm right.
;)
Put yer money where your mouth is.
€100 we won't qualify, to a charity of yer choice, if we do

Heh. Paddy Power currently offers 9/2 that you'll make it, 1/8 that you won't (ie about a 17% chance once you allow for the bookie's profit). Given that, I doubt you'll get many takers at evens.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yes, but they won't take up the bet regardless....

[Gather round]

As a neutral observer, I'll take it on at 5/1 (ie without any middleman's profit). I'll put up E20 to your favorite charity that you qualify; if you do it owes me E120 back. Deal?

[ArdeeBhoy]

You owe me money anyway...
;)

See if yer man comes back to me first. I doubt it though.

[DannyInvincible]

Perhaps an indication that O'Neill wants to remain in club management rather than move into the international domain?: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22047649


"Day-to-day club management is something I've been doing now for 20 years and I'd have to say that I've got the same drive and determination as when I stepped in the door at Wycombe Wanderers."

[OwlsFan]

Heh. Paddy Power currently offers 9/2 that you'll make it, 1/8 that you won't (ie about a 17% chance once you allow for the bookie's profit). Given that, I doubt you'll get many takers at evens.

Do you have a tip for the Grand National as well?

[gustavo]

Yes, but know I'm right.
;)
Put yer money where your mouth is.
€100 we won't qualify, to a charity of yer choice, if we do.
I would say it's unlikely we will qualify hence I wouldn't take that bet up :) But I wouldn't definitively rule us out as a matter of fact like you did!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Erm, what's the difference then?
Not much...

[gustavo]

un·like·ly

adjective
1.
not likely to be or occur; improbable; marked by doubt.




def·i·nite·ly
adverb
1.
in a clear and definite manner; unambiguously.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I do know the difference, but you're the one who won't take up the bet.
:rolleyes:

[Gather round]

Do you have a tip for the Grand National as well?

Aye, don't discuss it with a vet unless you want your ear bent...

[ArdeeBhoy]

You might need to work on your material...
;)

[Closed Account 2]

It looks like Tony Pulis could be leaving Stoke in the Summer, he's been linked with the Leeds job, but if that goes to someone else he could be someone the FAI might look at.

[paul_oshea]

They are getting rid of him? Only a few months ago he was saying what a great relationship he has with the owners.

I mean why else would you go to manage a championship team over a premiership team - if he keeps them up.

[peadar1987]

He's lost the fans unfortunately, I think he might be quietly persuaded to step down, even though as far as I know he's still a personal friend of the owner Peter Coates.

[jbyrne]

It looks like Tony Pulis could be leaving Stoke in the Summer, he's been linked with the Leeds job, but if that goes to someone else he could be someone the FAI might look at.

from Trap to Pulis would be change only for the sake of change. realistically though Pulis is the level of manager we would have to settle for when trap goes and it will be back to 3rd / 4th in our qualifying again

[peadar1987]

from Trap to Pulis would be change only for the sake of change. realistically though Pulis is the level of manager we would have to settle for when trap goes and it will be back to 3rd / 4th in our qualifying again

Pulis is managing a side who have comfortably avoided relegation for each of the last four seasons in one of the most competitive leagues in the world. I sometimes wonder which manager would be good enough for some of our fans.

[geysir]

It would mean 4 more years of Glenn, holding the line tightly.

[Cuyahoga]

Why would pulis take the Irish job. It would be a step down from managing a Premier League club.

[Crosby87]

Trap optimistic Juve will rally today:
http://www.sportpulse.net/content/giovanni-trapattoni-bayern-only-51-favourites-against-juventus-7787

[Stuttgart88]

It looks like Tony Pulis could be leaving Stoke in the Summer, he's been linked with the Leeds job, but if that goes to someone else he could be someone the FAI might look at.How much did Trap pay you to post that?

[Closed Account 2]

I think something is afoot with Pulis, he's lost the fans and the local papers and messageboards in the Potteries are rampantly against him, with talks of protests, booing the team consistently, and not renewing season tickets. More tellingly he's now the favourite in "the sack race" (next PL manager to go) at 9/4 way ahead of Lambert 66/1, Mancini 25/1 and even Bentiez 20/1. Even if Stoke survive this season (and that's far from certain) the odds are he could well end up leaving.

Now if you look at the jobs he might take there are concrete vacancies at Chelsea (next season), Leeds and Blackburn. I dont think Pulis would get the Chelsea gig, but Leeds and Blackburn are options. There is a lot of talk of Roberto Di Matteo getting that job or even Martin O'Neill. Blackburn are an option but given some of the stuff Pulis has said in the past, and the issues he's had with Chairmen who are "characters" (Paul Scally at Gillingham) I'm not sure he'd want to work for the Venkys or for a possible league one side. There is a chance that something could happen in the summer like Moyes leaving Everton and Pulis going there but that is very intangible.

Ideally we wouldnt only look at candidates from the British Isles for the next Ireland manager, but it seems elements of fans don't want a continental manager after the experience of Trap. The majority of the names being banded around by fans (O'Neill, Mick McCarthy, McDermott, Sean O'Driscoll, even the wildcard ones like Roy Keane or Jewell) are experienced in the British game. I'd rather a continental one myself by I can see the FAI thinking one with UK experience is a safer pair of hands given most of our players play in the PL or Championship. If you're looking at Premier League or Championship managers how many are free and have as much recent experience as Pulis? Not that many, Warnock, Andy Thorne (took Coventry down), Benitez will of course be free but I'm not sure the FAI would go for him and I'm not sure he'd take us. I dont think Pulis would be a great appointment, I'm not sure the football style would be fantastic, but if you look at it from the FAI's point of view he does have experience, he would in all probability be free (ie no club compensation) and he probably knows (or has coached) more of the current squad than any other manager on the market (the 3 Ws Whelan, Wilson, Walters). You also have players on the frindge of the squad like Rory Delap and Ben Glasgow (the youth lad he signed from Arsenal), and players he's sold like Liam Lawrence, Adam Rooney, he even had Clive Clarke (but obviously sadly he had to retire early). I could see the FAI looking at all this and going for him, although I wouldnt myself be jumping over bridges to get him.

[OwlsFan]

It looks like Tony Pulis could be leaving Stoke in the Summer, he's been linked with the Leeds job, but if that goes to someone else he could be someone the FAI might look at.

Isn't one of the problems some fans have with Trap is the style of play? Pulis isn't exactly get the ball down and pass type of manager so we would have those purist fans who want not only success but success with flair still on his back.

[Closed Account 2]

I think the style of his play might be a big part of it. But also there seem to be other gripes about Trap not scouting enough players in club matches and not bringing younger players through, Pulis might be able to address those two points even if his style wouldnt quite be what a lot of our very vocal fans and media want. And to be honest I'm not sure we could get a manager who would deliver the flowing passing football so many of our fans crave.

[Charlie Darwin]

Pulis would have been perfect for Ireland when Trap took over, as his teams tend to be big, solid and their best players are the wingers and strikers. That seems to be how he likes his teams to be set up because he's had plenty of money with which to build a team. Ireland are suddenly light in the winger department and physically our strikers aren't going to win any strongman contests, so it's debatable whether that approach is any longer appropriate, and it's very debatable whether Pulis has the coaching nous to change style.

[geysir]

Isn't one of the problems some fans have with Trap is the style of play? Pulis isn't exactly get the ball down and pass type of manager so we would have those purist fans who want not only success but success with flair still on his back.
There are some minority of fans who will moan regardless, chronic moaners. There are fans who are critical of Trap but that doesn't equate into wanting us playing latin style. It's not an either/or situation.
And there are fans who have reasoned opinions about our squad of available players, about the string of bizarre managerial decision made, and who don't put weight on the theory of the continued affliction of happenstance affecting our team's performance.

Managers do have an end date (with one exception). There are also foolish fans who think they know better than other fans, that one should go to the grave, hand in hand with the appointed manager, right to the end of time. And on that sinking journey, continually revise expectations to the lowest denominator via a process of belittlement.

[Stuttgart88]

Delaney isn't stupid. Appointing Pulis would have every pundit in the land critical from the off, rightly or wrongly. That affects public opinion, which affects ticket sales, and so on.

There's probably not much wrong with Stoke fans that 6 more points won't appease.

[tetsujin1979]

pretty much every single criticism of Trapattoni could be applied to Pulis (maybe not the language barrier. maybe) so appointing him wouldn't be a step forward IMO. An interesting question to Stoke fans would be would they consider appointing Trapattoni to replace Pulis?

on the language barrier, has any player ever complained that they couldn't understand the manager? Can't think of any off the top of my head.

[Charlie Darwin]

Another difference is that Pulis doesn't just threaten to punch players - he follows through. Integrity.

[Crosby87]

How come there is never any momentum for hiring a German? I would think many of you would be keen on that.

[peadar1987]

Another difference is that Pulis doesn't just threaten to punch players - he follows through. Integrity.

Haha, Beattie had it coming!

[jbyrne]

Pulis is managing a side who have comfortably avoided relegation for each of the last four seasons in one of the most competitive leagues in the world. I sometimes wonder which manager would be good enough for some of our fans.

exactly. trap is a manager who has guided a team of mid EPL and championship players to a WC playoff and the euros in his two campaigns to date yet many want him gone. there is no point in replacing him unless we get someone better. Pulis is illustrative of the standard of manager that will be in the running post trap and we will be worse off imo.

[Closed Account 2]

pretty much every single criticism of Trapattoni could be applied to Pulis (maybe not the language barrier. maybe) so appointing him wouldn't be a step forward IMO. An interesting question to Stoke fans would be would they consider appointing Trapattoni to replace Pulis?

on the language barrier, has any player ever complained that they couldn't understand the manager? Can't think of any off the top of my head.

Well one of the criticisms of Trap is (or was) that he didn't go to enough games in the UK involving Irish players, I can't see this being a problem with Pulis. He already knows a lot about the Premier League including the lower rung teams so he would be starting from a higher base than Trap did 4-5 years ago. If say he still lived in the Stoke area he would be within easy reach of all the midlands clubs and the north west teams in England, so for example it would be very easy for him to watch the likes of Coleman at Everton, Sammon and Hendrick at Derby, Long at WBA, all the Villa and Wolves Irish players, etc.

Another criticism has been his salary being too high, Pulis might be a bit cheaper than Trap, but then again Denis O'Brien might not subsidise the Welshman so the net cost could be the same. I wouldn't be too overjoyed with Pulis myself, but one has to be realistic, I dont think the Irish national team job is going to attract the managers at the very heights of the game, i.e. compared to say the top leagues in Europe or the CL.

It looks like Brian McDermott will sign with Leeds today so the circle of viable candidates is decreasing.

[OwlsFan]

There are some minority of fans who will moan regardless, chronic moaners.

There are fans who are critical of Trap but that doesn't equate into wanting us playing latin style. It's not an either/or situation.

And there are fans who have reasoned opinions about our squad of available players, about the string of bizarre managerial decision made, and who don't put weight on the theory of the continued affliction of happenstance affecting our team's performance.

Managers do have an end date (with one exception). There are also foolish fans who think they know better than other fans, that one should go to the grave, hand in hand with the appointed manager, right to the end of time. And on that sinking journey, continually revise expectations to the lowest denominator via a process of belittlement.

Yes, there are all kind of fans and supporters. The point I was making is that an appointment of Pulis would not remove that section of fans who are against Trap because of the style of football he plays. The appointment would still have that section anti-Pulis ab initio.

There is of course another category of fan you haven't mentioned. Those who support the manager because he has brought the team relative success despite the apparently bizarre decisions and who do not think that the far away hills are always green and who have more often than not found those hills to be a mirage and devoid of any growth.

[Closed Account 2]

Just to confirm McDermott has gone to Leeds on a 3 year deal:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/12/leeds-united-brian-mcdermott-manager

I don't see him in the running for the Ireland job now nor probably in a just over a year (by which time Trap will definately be gone). I think he is off the list.

[Yard of Pace]

I've been thinking about this in the last few days, and was thinking about Trap saying we have no right to expect to compete against Germany and his latest post Austria comment about "not being Germany, not being England". Those two comments are, for me, probably the most irritating and negative thing that he's done thus far. I thought they were disgraceful and stupid things to say. It got me thinking of how we used to play the bigger teams with no fear, even if we've Tommy Coyne up-front against Italy, or a Blackburn Rovers sub on the wing against Holland.
Leafing through a Jonathan Wilson book on the bog there I came across an interview with Slaven Bilic who was describing Miroslav Blazevic's managerial methods. I googled it and found this site:http://false9.blogspot.ie/2011/08/croatian-motivation-methods-of-miroslav.html who have printed the entire quote from Bilic which I loved

He was the ideal coach for us. If you’d given us Capello, Ferguson or Wenger, it wouldn’t have worked. He was everybody’s father, a great motivator.

You would play against, let’s say, Estonia, and you know it’s only Estonia, but he would gradually motivate you. Every day he knew in his head when he was going to create an incident to wake everybody up a bit, then he’d tell us all to go to a nightclub or something. At team meetings he’d be talking about Estonia as though they were ****ing Brazil. You’d know he was lying, you’d know it wasn’t true, but you say, ****, yeah, it’s going to be hard. And he would always say Estonia’s left-back is whoever, and he’d be talking about their players, and he’d be writing their names on a board, and you’d know it was wrong; he’d be saying, like, this guy, he’s so quick, he’s so good, and you’d know when he was talking to you that he’d never seen him in his ****ing life.

Anyway, it would motivate you, but whoever we played against, he always told us we were better than them. So when we played Argentina in the World Cup, he came to me and he said “Son”, because we were always his sons, “Son, you have to come with me and talk to the press.” So, OK, it’s me and him in the press conference. And I know even the twenty-second player in their squad plays for Inter, and everybody else is at AC Milan, Real Madrid, Barcelona…all at the best teams, and we have Boban at Milan, but he doesn’t play, and Šuker at Real Madrid, and he doesn’t play. The rest of us were playing in great leagues but not for great teams. So he says to the press, “Argentina, not a bad team, not a bad team, but none of their players play for the best teams in Europe”. So I look at him and say “What the **** are you talking about?” But that’s what he was like. It was all nonsense, but it was great nonsense.



I'm not saying Ireland need some madman in charge who just talks up the players, but I do think our next manager needs to have a little bit of that in him. Certainly more than Trap does anyway.

[Stuttgart88]

I used to love reading about the Charlton era lads traveling to games on the team bus with rebel songs being blasted out on the ghetto blaster. The team had an identity and a sense of purpose and felt confident playing everyone. I think under Trap they're probably overly respectful of everyone and I think probably the same under Kerr.

[Stuttgart88]

Just to confirm McDermott has gone to Leeds on a 3 year deal:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/12/leeds-united-brian-mcdermott-manager

I don't see him in the running for the Ireland job now nor probably in a just over a year (by which time Trap will definately be gone). I think he is off the list.I reckon it's going to be McCarthy. I heard he has a clause in his contract allowing him to leave with no compo to Ipswich for the Ireland job.

[Noelys Guitar]

I've really enjoyed our last two games. We created some excellent scoring chances in both games and I still expect us to just about get second place (Sweden will struggle to beat Kaz away). If we do qualify (as I expect) then what happens to Trapatonni? There are a few scenarios whereby Trapatonni could still be in charge come Euro 2016 Qualifying. Qualifying for the WC and then getting out of the group would change everything. Might look like a long, long shot viewing this from today but the WC usually has 'easier' groups then the Euros. Delaney will go with the flow of course.