Trap Out and/or Delaney Out

[Duggie]

i cant look at a sunday world cause of 1 journalist...guess its not hard.

[Closed Account 2]

Beating the Faroes will not suddenly mean we're in contention for second place given the last two performances.

The performances have been pretty woeful, but I still dont think we are that far off Sweden and second place, Sweden's performances have been as nearly as drab as ours especially when you consider their two games have been easier than ours. Put it this way if we beat the Faeroes (and if we dont this whole conversation is pointless and we can kiss goodbye to everything) and Sweden are beaten in Germany we will be level on points in 2nd position. We will then go away to Stockholm and if we can draw that (and I think looking at Sweden even our current team, in sloppy form, could get a draw) and a win will put us in a good position irrespective of how badly we have played. Sweden currently have a 7 goal difference better than us, but a 3-0 defeat for them and a 2 or 3-0 win for us (both of which are possible) would bring the goal differences more into line.

Reading what some people on here type about Sweden you would think they are the best team in Europe, they are far from that. While they are well organised and physical, they are very mundane, largely bereft of skill and pace. Hard to break down perhaps, but they will not run us ragged like the Germans and Croatians did, they dont have players with the energy to do this - our defenders will have more time on the ball and this will suit Traps defensive (and frankly rather horrific to watch) style of football.

[Strongbow10]

Our mentalitee is strong.


I could hardly be described as a member of the Trap Out Brigade but even I've lost faith in him. His record in terms of results is very good, or at least was until the Euros, but it's clear at this stage that this is a side on a very steep decline unless there are big changes.

Theres such a thing as too much loyalty towards a manager aswell. It can be as damaging as constantly selecting underperforming players.

His entire reign needs to be analysed. Has he any interest in a long term strategy to blood players for the future? NO

World class people skills are needed for a manager in the modern game, does he possess this quality? Apparently not

Has he shown tactical intelligence and flexibility? NO

Does he show an enthusiasm to cast his net wide and really evaluate what options he has at his disposal as an international manager in terms of players? NO

Quite frankly, people set the bar extremely low. Whats to say we could not have won our qualification groups with a less pragmatic approach? And before anyone jumps down my neck, advocating a less pragmatic approach does not entails trying to be Spain. It involves being efficient defensively without compromising attacking as a unit aswell.

His inability to nip some of our problems in the bud is very worrying. Our midfield for instance. Not effective in possession but more worryingly for Trap not effective without it either.

His insistance on relying on some really Terrible players, making them key squad members. Darren O'Dea, Stephen Ward, Paul McShane, Andy Keogh, Glen Whelan, Paul Green, Stephen Hunt, and then having the gall to tell us that this is the hand he has been dealt rather than trying to blood players who may in fact prove to be better alternatives.

Personally, I always thought Trap was a spent force in terms of being a relevant football mind. He has really been insignificant since the turn of the century really. He has a name sure, but its the equivalent of being in a long term relationship with a supermodel from the 80's when you are an ugly f*cker. In your eyes your still going out with a model, but to everyone else looking on you seem happy with someone who as quite clearly seen better days.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think standing behind your manager in a press conference the day before a must-win game is too much loyalty.

edit: woosh, from On the Ball on Facebook:


Trapattoni will NOT hold a planned press conference in Dublin tomorrow and will instead fly home directly to Milan. Writing is on the wall. Join us tonight with Ken in Torshavn and Richard Sadlier, Kevin Kilbane and Stuart Byrne in Dublin.

[Spudulika]

Apparently there was a minor tremor felt in Thorshavn and in Dublin as simultaneous multiple orgasms erupted amongst the Irish meeja - their wettest dreams (thanks to a paper hack) could come true. Just ashamed to have such people call themselves Irish. Scum.

[BonnieShels]

Just heard it on The Last Word . That is a whoosh.

[Noelys Guitar]

George Hamiliton just commented on it.

[Murfinator]

I think I'm more on Trap's side than ever now. The media pressure is barbaric, pure Brit-influenced c rap from watching Sky Sports for too long.

The media pressure is manufactured, Trap is a boring stable manager in their eyes with predictable team selections, systems and the communication barrier in press conferences frustrates them no end. It's difficult to sell papers or get people to tune in to coverage under this era.
They want him out and the Irish public are apparently gullible enough to be manipulated to carry out their wishes.

2 competitive defeats in 3 campaigns, currently on a 19 game unbeaten run away from home, rose our fifa rankings, 2 playoffs, 1 major tournament. I hope he goes after tonight because honestly Irish supporters don't deserve him, lets go get Dalglish or Eamon Dunphy to manage the team.

[weldoninhio]

The performances have been pretty woeful, but I still dont think we are that far off Sweden and second place, Sweden's performances have been as nearly as drab as ours especially when you consider their two games have been easier than ours. Put it this way if we beat the Faeroes (and if we dont this whole conversation is pointless and we can kiss goodbye to everything) and Sweden are beaten in Germany we will be level on points in 2nd position. We will then go away to Stockholm and if we can draw that (and I think looking at Sweden even our current team, in sloppy form, could get a draw) and a win will put us in a good position irrespective of how badly we have played. Sweden currently have a 7 goal difference better than us, but a 3-0 defeat for them and a 2 or 3-0 win for us (both of which are possible) would bring the goal differences more into line.

Reading what some people on here type about Sweden you would think they are the best team in Europe, they are far from that. While they are well organised and physical, they are very mundane, largely bereft of skill and pace. Hard to break down perhaps, but they will not run us ragged like the Germans and Croatians did, they dont have players with the energy to do this - our defenders will have more time on the ball and this will suit Traps defensive (and frankly rather horrific to watch) style of football.

So all of this happens and then what?? We either get embarrassed by someone in the play-off or we have another debacle like the Euros where we get our arses handed to us. Traps whole attitude of the irish aren't good enough, we have a weak team, we cannot beat the bigger teams is killing the spirit of this squad, the spirit that allowed us compete with the likes of Holland, Germany, England etc in our past. Much like someone who is bullied and constantly told they are worthless, after a while they start to believe this and its extremely hard to come back from.

I think we need an Irish manager who knows what the Irish spirit and fight is all about. I think with the players we have it is not impossible for us to qualify for tournaments and give a good account of us. We are better than this crap!!!

[Noelys Guitar]

So all of this happens and then what?? We either get embarrassed by someone in the play-off or we have another debacle like the Euros where we get our arses handed to us. Traps whole attitude of the irish aren't good enough, we have a weak team, we cannot beat the bigger teams is killing the spirit of this squad, the spirit that allowed us compete with the likes of Holland, Germany, England etc in our past. Much like someone who is bullied and constantly told they are worthless, after a while they start to believe this and its extremely hard to come back from.

I think we need an Irish manager who knows what the Irish spirit and fight is all about. I think with the players we have it is not impossible for us to qualify for tournaments and give a good account of us. We are better than this crap!!!

Look what a mediocre Swedish team achieved tonight.

[the bear]

Kerr is going to be on Prime Time talking about Trap now in a minute

[Stuttgart88]

Any summary?

[jbyrne]

I don't think standing behind your manager in a press conference the day before a must-win game is too much loyalty.

edit: woosh, from On the Ball on Facebook:

traps sister is ill hence the press conference being called off. thats what i just heard. also no fai and trap meeting planned

[youngirish]

After watching that O'Donoghue interview with Trap coupled with the cancelling of the press conference and with the rumours that have been apparently coming from trusted sources within the FAI (according to Brian Kerr) I feel his card could be marked.

He didn't seem to claim with any great certainty in the interview that he'd be sticking around for the foreseeable future. Just a hunch.

[geysir]

traps sister is ill hence the press conference being called off. thats what i just heard. also no fai and trap meeting planned
I have used the 'my dog is sick I have to go home to look after her' excuse a few times, always works a charm.

But my sister? maybe if she was on her deathbed.

[IsMiseSean]

Remember guys if Trap goes so does the lovely Manuela?

[tetsujin1979]

I have used the 'my dog is sick I have to go home to look after her' excuse a few times, always works a charm.

But my sister? maybe if she was on her deathbed.
His sister is a nun AFAIR, she gave him the vial of holy water he carries with him to games

[geysir]

Holy smokes Tets!
What does Trap do with that holy water? sprinkle it on the players to sort out the few ball playing vampires amongst the squad?

[jbyrne]

I have used the 'my dog is sick I have to go home to look after her' excuse a few times, always works a charm.

But my sister? maybe if she was on her deathbed.

who are you to decide what trap thinks is more important between attending a sick family member and a press conference where he will face the same old questions? reported this morning that she is in hospital.
ridiculous post

[Spudulika]

TOD's questioning of Trap is becoming tiresome, he's looking for trouble and like George Hamilton too, they're egging the cake too much. The sad thing is that there will be precious little objectivity in affairs now. I thought Trap and the players spoke well, and that he (Trap) just didn't want to answer anything other than questions about football. Fair enough.

[OwlsFan]

.....anyway the truth as usual is somewhere in between and there are valid arguments on both sides of the divide:

Pros:

Qualification and a near qualification in his two tournaments
.
2 campaigns unbeaten away run.

Cons

Doesn't pick the players whom many believe should be in the team
Poor communication apparently with some players
Style of play, especially at home, not entertaining
Doesn't travel to see players
Terrible Poland tournament and subsequent German result
Alienating a lot of fans (see above)

Personally, I will still choose Pros over Cons because (a) Dunphy is on the other side and (b)change does not necessarily = improvement. I have seen 20+ managers come and go at Hillsboro and heard the same arguments. 6 improved things. 14 did not. That is not of course a valid argument not to change managers but the far away hills are always green. The player who isn't playing would make things better. The manager who isn't there would turn things round. Sometimes they do. More often than not they don't.

I'd say he's here until the end of this campaign so let's accept that and get on with it. He is now selecting McCarthy/Coleman/Wilson/McLean so that alleviates some of the criticism. Long I wouldn't select ahead of either Keane or Walters so that is an arguable one but I would pick him ahead of Cox but....this just leaves us Clarke (poor when he played for us and not exactly a world beater) and Hoolahan. I have been impressed by the latter when I have seen him play but the manager doesn't pick him because he doesn't suit his system. C'est la guerre.

Football is all about opinions but I think the anti-Trapp brigade should not equate not supporting Trapp with not supporting the team. There will be lots of vacant seats in the forthcoming games but the team/country is a separate entity to the manager and as my little nephew used to say "Stand up for the poison greens" even if it contains Simon Cox or ANdy Keogh, the current bete-noirs of the Trapp era.

[the bear]

Any summary?

Same old same old Stut, you could prob right a summary of what he said without watching it, wasn't whining to much

[Stuttgart88]

Good post Owls Fan, except in my case the entertainment factor is a red herring - though if it's keeping thousands away I think it's a factor the FAI should have in mind.

In my case the issue of style of play is more that it's a very high risk style of football. Call me naive but I think you're more likely to win games when you have more of the ball and you actually tackle opponents. A bad defeat was pending before the Euros. Despite the run of clean sheets I was alarmed by the amount of chances we were shipping and how even third-tier teams found us easy to play against.

A friend of mine wrote an academic paper (seriously!) on when is the best time to sack a football manager. It takes into account all kinds of data such as the SWFC numbers you cite above. I must ask him what his "model" tells about this situation!

Here it is:

http://www.icmacentre.ac.uk/files/discussion-papers/DP_2011_24.pdf

[NeverFeltBetter]

FAI management meeting right now, statement expected very soon. This according to RTE journos on Twitter.

[geysir]

who are you to decide what trap thinks is more important between attending a sick family member and a press conference where he will face the same old questions? reported this morning that she is in hospital.
ridiculous post
I agree that him presiding over a morning-after press conference would be as pointless/frustrating as any other press conference and the agenda most probably repetitive. But this is part of his job and a part which he does not do as well he could, by utilizing the translator to understand and answer questions asked and more especially at this present time. Maybe his sister is very sick, maybe not, I don't know.
Trap was quoted as saying he is going back early on Wed morn to attend a meeting in Italy and to visit his sister in hospital. That indicates that attending the meeting has some proportional value to his reasons for leaving early. So yeah, I am skeptical, but I'll keep an open mind.

[Charlie Darwin]

Trap IN

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152216290295441&set=a.10150096680430441.394208.10150089120710441&type=1&theater

[geysir]

I suspect it was obviously decided that Trap not do the usual morning after press conference because the FAI were meeting later on in the day to discuss his future.

Edit,
confirmed this morning, for the gullible few who swallowed wholesale, the sentimentality of the sick sister excuse for not doing the press conference.

'The Trapattoni camp suspected the worst when the FAI on Tuesday evening “postponed” his normal day-after press conference, originally scheduled for Dublin last night. It had been suggested Trapattoni had to return to Italy earlier than anticipated in order to visit his sick sister, Sister Romilde. Sources close to Trapattoni confirmed last night, however, that his sister has been ill for some months now but that there had been no emergency about her condition in recent days.'

[p2011]

2 competitive defeats in 3 campaigns

really? because i count six competitive defeats in 2.3 campaigns, more like it. and if fifa rankings are important to you, wait til the next ones come out.

[tommy_c12000]

The circus continues. Terrible management. Qualifying hopes finished now. Don't see much benefit giving him a big pay out now if the FAI can't afford. Might as well leave the contract run out until summer '14. Abysmal

[Closed Account 2]

The circus continues. Terrible management. Qualifying hopes finished now. Don't see much benefit giving him a big pay out now if the FAI can't afford. Might as well leave the contract run out until summer '14. Abysmal

I don't think our qualification hopes are finished with that draw, it's a big setback, and if we'd lost I would agree with you about it being curtains. Assuming we beat Kazakhstan and the Faeroes at home (and if we can't we don't deserve to be in Brazil) then I think beating Sweden at home and getting a point in Vienna will give us a good chance of finishing 2nd, I'm a little worried that our group will have the "worst second place" team so we might miss out on the playoffs.

[Fixer82]

I think sacking Trap now would be silly.
Tonight's performance was a massive improvement,
We tired in second half and let them back in it but look at all the positives: Walters, McClean, Long, Sammon, Coleman, McCarthy all played very well and we played real football as opposed to hoofball.
We dropped off and they cam back into it but we were definitely the better team overall.
I think we were unlucky.

[brine3]

They were running around with no plan and didn't attempt to play football! The better team?!

[Launch_it]

I can't understand the mentality of keeping Trap, what are the long term benifits?

He clearly does not think the Irish are capable of getting the ball down and playing it on the deck, he has no interest in blooding the younger lads that will do this.... e.g. Wes Houlihan & James McCarthy only got his chance because of an injury!!!


Its a joke, the man is clearly holding us back, out you go and bring on the younger lads

[Crosby87]

Can we change the name of this thread to "Tap out" and talk UFC instead?

[ArdeeBhoy]

No idea, as ever what Crosby's on about...


I think sacking Trap now would be silly.
Tonight's performance was a massive improvement,
We tired in second half and let them back in it but look at all the positives: Walters, McClean, Long, Sammon, Coleman, McCarthy all played very well and we played real football as opposed to hoofball.
We dropped off and they came back into it but we were definitely the better team overall.
I think we were unlucky.
Normally agree with your posts, but not unlucky in the 2nd.half, more naive/stupid. We let them back into it. Bad by the players, never mind Trap.

And Sammon? 'God love him', but yer man really is a fish out of water...

[SkStu]

No idea, as ever what Crosby's on about...

I think the dude smokes a lot, and I mean A LOT, of weed...

Whatever it is, i like it, he always grabs my attention!

[mypost]

The circus continues. Terrible management. Qualifying hopes finished now. Abysmal

The table shows:

Austria 8
Swden 8
Ireland 8

With half the campaign to go.

Panic over.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yes, fantastic. From someone who claimed we'd take points from Germany...

[SkStu]

It also show Germany in first place and what it doesn't show is the fact that whoever finishes second currently isn't going to the play offs.

Aye, panic over.

[DannyInvincible]

The table shows:

Austria 8
Swden 8
Ireland 8

With half the campaign to go.

Not quite the full story, there. You've omitted some crucial details.

[BonnieShels]

Not quite the full story, there. You've omitted some crucial details.

The first 'e' in Sweden for starters.

[Crosby87]

SWE has a game in hand.

[ArdeeBhoy]

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/trpaattoni-post-match-comments-847145-Mar2013/?utm_source=facebook_self&utm_medium=thescore&utm_campaign=from_page

[KK77]

Not quite the full story, there. You've omitted some crucial details.

True didn't realise that Sweden and Austria still had to play each other twice.

[Kingdom]

Ralf Rangnick
Thomas Schaff
Lucien Favre
Co Adriannse
Christoph Daum
Thomas Tucher
Mirko Slomka

[ArdeeBhoy]

They are what, exactly?

[Fixer82]

No idea, as ever what Crosby's on about...


Normally agree with your posts, but not unlucky in the 2nd.half, more naive/stupid. We let them back into it. Bad by the players, never mind Trap.

And Sammon? 'God love him', but yer man really is a fish out of water...

I thought Sammon did exactly what was asked of him and couldn't fault him. h exceeded my expectations.
I think the point I was trying to make was that sacking Trap would disrupt the whole group. The players do seem very loyal to him and together as a group.
I did think we played well and were the better team. I think we got tired because we were jumping into every tackle for the first hour no holds barred.
Technically the Austrians were better than us and finally got the equaliser.
But we were the better team. We hit the post and nearly got an OG in the second half.
Their first goal was an unforced defensive error.
I thought we played a good mix of football last night, long ball and on the deck and it's much better football than we've played in years.

Should we have put Hoolahan in and left Long on? Of course we should have but I don't think sacking Trap now would do any good and it would possibly have a detrimental effect on some of the players coming through like McClean, McCarthy etc.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Respect your opinion, but unsure if many would agree with keeping Trap?

[Duggie]

Respect your opinion, but unsure if many would agree with keeping Trap?

who would you replace him with?

[Wangball]

He has to go. If we're being realistic then qualification for 2014 no seems to be beyond us so our focus should now shift towards the Euro's in 2016, what we need to do now is start introducing younger players to the squad so that they can gain experience and develop into a more cohesive team so when the 2016 qualifying set begins we're not throwing guys like Sammon in with no international experience or experience of playing with his international team mates and expecting him to lead the line in a pretty high pressure situation (to be fair he did really well considering).

Trap has shown that he's not the man for this job.