Trap Out and/or Delaney Out

[DeLorean]

In the space of nine months we've put in the worst performance in the history of the European Championships and suffered the greatest ever home loss in the history of the Irish football team.

I'm still glad we qualified.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I'm not. Well from a football perspective. It was fairly (& literally) pointless.

Visits to hospitals aside, had a great time otherwise though, especially in Torun...

[DeLorean]

I'm not. Well from a football perspective. It was fairly (& literally) pointless.

I don't think so. Success breeds success, and qualifying is definitely a success of sorts. It would have been great to have done better but it would have been far worse not to have been there at all. We needed it after Paris as well I think. Plus, psychologically it's definitely a good thing that we have qualified as recently as 2012...the clock was starting to tick louder when we had to think back as far as 2002. Even just for our status and general stats, the more Euros and WC's we qualify for the better.


Visits to hospitals aside, had a great time otherwise though, especially in Torun...

We were there briefly too, got absolutely soaked half way across that really long bridge...nowhere to run or hide!

[Crosby87]

i am irish-born irish, but have lived outside of ireland since 1986, and as such i can relate to those irish who are born outside of ireland. I find your comments that these people are somehow less irish to be offensive.

potm!
And its been A Long month!

[DannyInvincible]

We'd surely be in with somebody like Egypt or Saudi Arabia like previously and may even have a chance to reach the knock-outs.

Funnily enough, I was just looking at Asian qualification last night and the Saudis don't appear to be the AFC "powerhouse" they once were. They didn't even make it through to the fourth round/final group stage of qualification. Uzbekistan actually look like hot favourites to qualify from Asia this time round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(AFC)#Group_A_2) .

[BonnieShels]

In other words trying is the first step towards failure.... why do anything as there is always a risk of failure


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhjGoaKf52s&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[gastric]

Funnily enough, I was just looking at Asian qualification last night and the Saudis don't appear to be the AFC "powerhouse" they once were. They didn't even make it through to the fourth round/final group stage of qualification. Uzbekistan actually look like hot favourites to qualify from Asia this time round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(AFC)#Group_A_2) .

And the Australians who have qualified easily in the past through Asia, struggled at home against Oman. Oman actually lead 2-0 but the Aussies scored 2 for a draw. The Oman blokes are particularly skilful as they decided years ago to adopt Brazil as a role model. My heart bleeds for the Australians!

[gastric]

Typical Dunphy stuff, but I do think he has a point about Trap not appreciating Ireland's football tradition.


http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2013/0327/378667-dunphy-trapattoni-should-be-sacked/

[jbyrne]

Typical Dunphy stuff, but I do think he has a point about Trap not appreciating Ireland's football tradition.


http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2013/0327/378667-dunphy-trapattoni-should-be-sacked/

the managers i have known...

eoin hand term ridiculed by dunphy
charlton term ridiculed by dunphy
mccarthy term ridiculed by dunphy
kerr term initially welcomed by dunphy (mainly to have a pop at mccarthy) but then ridiculed
staunton term ridiculed by dunphy
trap term initially welcomed but now ridiculed

how far do we have to go back to find this Irish football tradition that Dunphy mourns?

[tetsujin1979]

Typical Dunphy stuff, but I do think he has a point about Trap not appreciating Ireland's football tradition.


http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2013/0327/378667-dunphy-trapattoni-should-be-sacked/ this is the same Dunphy who swore he'd never go to another league of Ireland game after leaving Shamrock Rovers?

to be perfectly honest, isn't there a positive in not appreciating Ireland's football traditions?

[bennocelt]

Probably could add Sam Allardyce to that list, West Ham seem to be paving the way for him leaving when his contract is up this summer

That would be madness, replace Trap with lardice - whats the difference?:confused:

[Duggie]

We are going nowhere with Trap but Trap won't be going anywhere, until we are mathematically out of the running. It's pointless looking at which managers are available to come in now.

The current Iceland boss, Lagerback, is an outstanding candidate, a safe bet on a sane salary, buckets of experience and tactically astute. He can coach a squad in the intricacies of intl football, select the players to play a game with emphasis on players retaining the ball and passing to feet. He can manage a team during a game to change the flow and isn't afraid to make the big fundamental game defining change at half time.
He's available in november unless he can win the group, which actually is not out of the question. Make the provisional contract now and save our team from a banal list of overpaid English league based, homeless managers.

good shout on lars lagerback. experienced international boss. sweden were always solid under him, would have the same type of player and mentality to work with. i wonder would the FAI even look at him. some of the candidates on offer would worry me.

[Stuttgart88]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/fai-still-backing-trapattoni-226725.html

Despite Tuesday’s agonising home draw with Austria putting Giovanni Trapattoni firmly back in the firing line, the FAI have no immediate plans to move against the manager.

That means the Italian should be secure in his job until at least September — barring, of course, a catastrophic result at home to the Faroe Islands in June.

The association’s board of management did convene yesterday but, unlike the emergency session which followed the Faroes game last October – when the FAI opted to back the manager amid raging speculation that he was about to be axed — this was a scheduled meeting and Trapattoni’s position was not an issue.

The manager has also revealed that FAI chief executive John Delaney offered his commiserations in person after Austria’s last gasp equaliser at the Aviva and pointed out that the qualifying campaign is still only at the half-way stage.

“He was in the players’ lounge and give me and Marco regards,” said the Italian. “For the result, obviously, (he) was no happy-happy, but for the commitment and for our performance, he said it was okay, we have played only 45 minutes now.

“He said we have again the other opportunity. I believe this, it’s no problem. He said also, ‘You were very unlucky’. And not only him, also three or four people, not FAI, said, ‘unfortunately you were a little bit unlucky this evening’. Because Austria were shooting but shooting away. We had no other particularly dangerous situation. We could have finished the game with a one-goal advantage.”

Among those braving the cold on Tuesday night to watch the 2-2 draw at the Aviva was former Reading boss Brian McDermott who is widely believed to be the FAI’s preferred choice as a successor to the current manager. When Trapattoni was asked yesterday if he was satisfied he retained the association’s backing, he replied: “That is not my duty. My duty is to make what is possible to do with this team. To discover other players to renew us. To grow the team’s experience, confidence and conviction. The team had a very great reaction (against Austria) because, after 15 minutes when you give this goal advantage to a good team, it was like a knock to the head. But we had a good reaction – (Shane) Long also hit the post — and we could have achieved the result. We played well.”

Trapattoni said he fully understood that Austria’s stoppage time equaliser would negatively colour media comment on the game and, in particular, his contentious substitutions.

He said: “Two minutes less and the analysis would be completely different.

“I know your job: why this change or the other? Now it’s easy to say but the decision had to be made after 80 minutes.”

Trapattoni said he had considered bringing on the “creative, offensive” Wes Hoolahan but decided that, with Irish energy levels flagging, Paul Green would do more to stiffen the midfield.

Trapattoni also claimed it was pointless for him to try and run the clock down by bringing on a third sub since the referee would simply have extended the stoppage time.

In any event, according to the manager, it was not the substitutions which made the difference but the fact that Ireland didn’t opt to kill time in the game’s dying moments having won a free-kick deep in Austrian territory.

Instead, the quickly taken free ended up with the opposition regaining possession and then breaking upfield to score via David Abala’s deflected shot.

“This team in the future can learn from this,” he said. “With more calm, we could have wasted a little bit of time with the free-kick and finished the game off. Instead, we played immediately and lost the ball in midfield. Let me say one name: Damien Duff. In this position, he would go down, lose time and finish the game. That is experience.”

Similarly, after Ciarán Clark’s error for the first Polish goal, Trapattoni suggested — in his own inimitable way of course — that there is a time for a centre-half to play football and a time for him to find Row Z.

“I saw this at Aston Villa, he has this habit,” said the manager. “He must learn. Italy had the great teams in the past but their defenders never make dribbling, never in life. When you can play, play, but, under pressure, close the eyes and shoot over there.”

Despite Tuesday’s cruel blow — one which yielded a potentially significant advantage to both Austria and Sweden — Trapattoni maintains that Ireland remain firmly in contention for a second-place finish in Group C.

“It’s like arm-wrestling,” he declared. “Germany are out in front but Sweden, Austria and Ireland remain in this balance. And Sweden play Austria next. Can we still qualify? We have only played 45 minutes. Now starts the second round so why not.”

I don't disagree with anything Trap says, and it's very much Owls fan's way of looking at things, and yes, be careful what you wish for, but for me the issue is the whole approach to the game, the selections, the use of Green in Walters' position rather than "sliding" across the middle like he did in Stockholm. Even if we had held on it'd not have changed my opinion that it was an ugly way of approaching the game that virtually guaranteed giving them the ball far more than they needed to have it.

[Closed Account 2]

I agree with him about that free kick. I was exasperated when I saw them do a tippy-tappy, dilly-dally free kick near the Austrian's corner flag. It was a set piece they should have channeled it to jockeying at the corner flag or taken a proper set piece and tried to score a header, I'd have done the former myself but I could understand trying to score given the Austrians looked so bad in the air. What I would never have done was a tippy-tappy short pass like they did, we dont have players reknowned for keeping the all, it was just inviting dispossession . I thought our use of free kicks all night was pretty poor, we seemed to play this short passes from them or shoot from range too much when (as could be seen from our corners) a ball into the box caused the Austrians bother all night.

[geysir]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/fai-still-backing-trapattoni-226725.html

Trapattoni said he fully understood that Austria’s stoppage time equaliser would negatively colour media comment on the game and, in particular, his contentious substitutions.

He said: “Two minutes less and the analysis would be completely different.

“I know your job: why this change or the other? Now it’s easy to say but the decision had to be made after 80 minutes.”

Trapattoni said he had considered bringing on the “creative, offensive” Wes Hoolahan but decided that, with Irish energy levels flagging, Paul Green would do more to stiffen the midfield.

Trapattoni also claimed it was pointless for him to try and run the clock down by bringing on a third sub since the referee would simply have extended the stoppage time.

In any event, according to the manager, it was not the substitutions which made the difference but the fact that Ireland didn’t opt to kill time in the game’s dying moments having won a free-kick deep in Austrian territory.
Hindsight my backside, a blind man could see the open uncontested space in midfield for the Austrians to occupy in the last 1/4 of the game. His substitution not only did nothing to rectify that but made it worse, yet he tries to deflect the cause of losing the lead to the players making a mistake and not being canny enough in the last minute.
In the past, eg in Montenegro, when we were under no great pressure, he replaced a striker and threw Andy Keogh in at wide midfield to help close down any threat, that was an obvious move by a manager satisfied with his night's work.

[paul_oshea]

I was thinking this morning two names actually aidean mcgeady and damien duff. Duffer was exactly who i was thinking when thinking about that free kick, he would have fallen over a few times - but guess who else would have? Shane long, but he was off. And Trap ignored that, because that little fact goes against his argument. I think Mcgeady could have really opened them up with Mccarthys passes into the middle creating lots of space in the first half for counter attacks, but no one really took them on.

The most annoying bit about that piece is he is trying to portray that we were unlucky - no we werent trap, we were lucky to get away with this for so long for 4 years. If he had come out and said, look I got it wrong then I'd have a lot more respect and confidence for the future but he hasn't. HE got it wrong and seems like he would do the same all over again. Familiar to anyone? Yes after the Euros, he reckoned if we did it again the result would have been different. Was it CD who said...insanity :D

[Noelys Guitar]

Some refs will add on a bit more time when a team makes an injury time substitution. Most don't or add as little as 30 seconds. Plus, it would have been an opportunity to regroup and get direct instructions onto the pitch. Regarding replacing Trap with McDermott. No thanks. I guarantee Mc will be a 2/3/5 year plan merchant. Somebody Delaney feels comfortable with. I'm still convinced we can come second in this group so I am against changing the manager at this stage. If say Tony Pulis or MON had been manager the last two games I very much doubt we would have seen any better display from this Irish team. Chris Hughton would only tweek the team selection/tactics (he plays Holt up front for Norwich). And these are in work Premiership managers managing most of our Premierhship players.

[DannyInvincible]

Trapattoni also claimed it was pointless for him to try and run the clock down by bringing on a third sub since the referee would simply have extended the stoppage time.

Is Trap seriously trying to tell us he's never utilised the cynical injury-time substitution ploy in order to wind down the clock because it's "pointless"?

[BonnieShels]

I've been thinking over the last couple of days since the match about the coaching situation.

As I've stated before I want Trap to leave after another inept example of game management.

However, he's not going anywhere.

So until we are mathematically out of it I'm backing him. Or if we get walloped at Wembley.

COYBIG!!!

[Noelys Guitar]

Is Trap seriously trying to tell us he's never utilised the cynical injury-time substitution ploy in order to wind down the clock because it's "pointless"?
I believe Trapatonni is seriously superstitious (ala Don Revie and a fair few other managers) and this clouds his judgement sometimes. Old time Italian managers invented the wind down substitutions/fall down fake injuries so he is bull****ting here.

[Bungle]

Great shout for Lagerback. International experience managing a country with a similar player pool to Ireland ticks alot of boxes for me. He seems to be doing a good job with Iceland now also.

I have to admit though I know very little about him outside of him seeming to do a very good job on paper, so would be good to know what his management style is with players and how he tries to get his teams to play, both of which are vital for gelling together our young team and capturing the imagination of the Irish public again. We can talk all we like on here about Irish people being "event junkies" but I know plenty of people that care about the Irish team that refuse to go to our games because of the negative fare that we generally serve up over the past number of years. I might disagree with their stance, but I can understand it.

McDermott ticks a good few boxes. He's young, encourages his teams to play good football, is clearly a talented coach, has a good knowledge of the Irish players, our youth teams and probably the League of Ieland from his contacts at Reading. He reminds me a bit of Brendan Rodgers in many ways, in that I think he will grow into a very good manager, but I think there is going to be a steep learning curve with him. It would be a concern that he has no experience at all of international/european club football either as a manager or as a player. This was definitely something that was crucial to the success of Big Jack and certainly Trap's reign in the first 2/3 years. I would be cautiosly optimistic with Brian McDermott but if I had to pick I would prefer Lagerback.

[DeLorean]

Martin O'Neill is the only realistic candidate I would like to see managing us after Trap, that I know about. I want Trap to remain until after this campaign, overall I think he deserves that much despite his flaws. I also think it's better for our qualification chances, continuity and all that. We can part company with him at the end of the campaign with everything rosy in the garden, so to speak.

I see that Stephen Fletcher and Lee Catermole are out for the remainder of the season at Sunderland. With Villa, Wigan and Southampton all showing a bit of form I think Sunderland will be relegated. They have a pretty hellish run-in as well, Man Utd and Chelsea up next before an away derby with Newcastle. The also have Everton and a trip to White Harte Lane to come. Martin could be free sooner than we think!

[mypost]

McDermott ticks a good few boxes.

The only box he ticks, is that he failed in his efforts to secure 4th from bottom in the EPL and therefore got fired well before the season ended. No thank you.

I prefer a proven winner with enough trophies to fill a cabinet or two. That's what we have atm.

[BonnieShels]

The only box he ticks, is that he failed in his efforts to secure 4th from bottom in the EPL and therefore got fired well before the season ended. No thank you.

I prefer a proven winner with enough trophies to fill a cabinet or two. That's what we have atm.


He didn't fail at all. The season is still ongoing.

[ifk101]

We've already had Lars Lagerbäck as manager. He just called himself Brian Kerr at the time. I'd imagine Lagerbäck is content managing a team where stringing a couple of passes together is called revolutionary.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd be cautious about McDermott but his record last year is more relevant and he shot the lights out.

[Bungle]

The only box he ticks, is that he failed in his efforts to secure 4th from bottom in the EPL and therefore got fired well before the season ended. No thank you.

I prefer a proven winner with enough trophies to fill a cabinet or two. That's what we have atm.

I would live a proven top class manager, but I don't think Jose Mourinho or the chap at Dortmund would be up for managing Ireland:o

McDermott had little or no money to spend, compared to the teams around him. He had a very good season in getting them promotion and I think it was wrong that he was sacked by Reading. If you read my post, I do note my concerns about him and his lack of experience. I would put him in the one to watch category, possibly down the line he could be a very good manager.

[DeLorean]

No to mention he could get Ian Harte back on board!

[jebus]

Are you sure? How...

Why in god's name did you delete the first part of my message in the quote so you can ask a question that is answered in the deleted part? :confused:

[geysir]

We've already had Lars Lagerbäck as manager. He just called himself Brian Kerr at the time. I'd imagine Lagerbäck is content managing a team where stringing a couple of passes together is called revolutionary.
Typical Swedish arrogance :) they are capable even of producing a few flurries now and again. When's the last time you saw a flurry of passing?
You guys had to be bailed out by a couple of pieces of outrageous Zlatan brilliance to overcome Lagerback's Iceland, in one of his first games in charge.
Since then the graph has gone upwards, bit by bit.
He has taken charge of an already successful young group of players at u21 level, that have grown up in an organised, educated, (technical) football culture. The demands were already high to find someone who could get them to compete on the senior stage. Lagerback has impressed me and everybody else I know associated with football here. Iceland isn't the Faroes who are happy with the odd victory, the demands and pressures on an intl manager are even more so here than in Ireland. People go to games and expect the team to win and if they don't win there are a hundred different opinions on what should have been done. That use to bemuse me.
Anybody would be fooling themselves if they thought technical football means we play like Latinos, far from it, we're Irish - more ugly, less tanned and less creative.

[Closed Account 2]

It's hard to say how good Largerback is as a lot of his sucess came as part of a double act with Soderberger. Once the latter left (after Euro 2004) his Sweden have had a record of finishing 2nd or 3rd in most qualification groups in a similar way to us under Trap. For WC 2006 they finished second in an easy group (Croatia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Iceland, Malta) but they lost both of the big games against Croatia, at the World Cup they drew 0-0 with Trinidad, beat Paraguay 1-0 and drew 2-2 with England - pretty average results but they finished 2nd so went into the knockouts where they lost to Germany 2-0 in a horrendous game where after conceeding on 4 minutes they gamely tried to defend a 1 goal defecit for 86 mins.

For the Euro 2008 qualifiers they finished 2nd behind Spain, but they were given a monumental boost by being awarded the Denmark away game 3-0 after a drunk (Danish) fan slapped the ref. This crippled the Danish chances of finishing second. In the Swedes big matches they beat Spain at home and lost to them away, drew at home with Denmark and were awarded the away match, but they only took one point from the two games with the north (drew 1-1 in Stockholm lost 2-1 in Belfast). You have to give them credit for getting into second but they were not all that convincing and dropped sloppy points. In the tournament group stage they beat Greece but then lost to Russia and Spain so went out. For WC 2010 they didnt make it and finished 3rd behind Denmark and Portugal. In their key matches against those two they lost home and away to the Danes and drew 0-0 twice with Portugal, two points from a possible 12 against the big teams wasnt enough and Largerback walked. Is his qualification record at Sweden significantly better than Traps? 3 Campaigns: twice runner up and once third? I dont think he built a particular identity in terms of the Swedish national team, the football was functional rather than fluid and there is a case for saying a lot of his success came from the foundations that Svensson and Soderberger created in the decade before him.

He then took charge of Nigeria at the 2010 WC, and while it's harsh to judge a manager who had less than 6 months with the squad, Largerbeck certainly wasnt a success at Nigeria. They lost 1-0 to Argentina in the first match. In the second match they were in a great position, 1 up vs Greece, but contrived to throw it away due to bad discipline and lost 2-1. Amazingly they still had a chance of going through in their final match as they took the lead against South Korea, but they ended up drawing 2-2 and went out of the group stage with one point. I would say the FAI should look at him after Trap goes (end of this campaign at the latest) but I dont think he has some sort of golden elixir and I would be suprised if the results would be much better.

[pineapple stu]

On Sweden's abandoned away game in Denmark, it should be noted that when the game was abandoned, there was a minute to go and Sweden had a penalty. So I wouldn't say the 3-0 award was a monumental boost; they were probably going to win the game anyway.

[Closed Account 2]

I'm not sure they would have, Sweden went 3-0 up and then fell apart the Danes made it 3-3 and as you Poulsen was given a red for an off the ball tussle with Rosenberg and a penalty was awarded, at the time Sweden had made defensive subs (Allback and Elmander - both strikers - off for the more positionally conservaite Rosenberg and the midfielder Kennedy Bacaryoglue) Ibrahimovic wasnt on the pitch so it's not clear who would have taken the penalty (maybe Anders Svensson, Ljungbjerg or Wilhelmsonn) the latter two took penalties in a shootout agains the Dutch 3 years earlier, but there wasnt really a recognised Swedish spot kick taker on the pitch.

[pineapple stu]

Well even if you liken it to the fourth penalty kick in a shoot-out (http://www.penaltyshootouts.co.uk/research.html) - in terms of pressure and ability of kicker, assuming teams often save a strong kicker for the fifth kick - you're still looking at greater than a 70% chance that they'd have scored. Then all they had to do was hold out for injury time against ten men. I'm happy to stick with stating that they "probably" (not definitely) would have won.

[DeLorean]

I don't think that 70% takes into account games being played away from home, which may reduce the percentage. Also, it definitely doesn't take into account the mental strain of throwing away a three goal lead in a crucial qualifier. For example, I always felt Liverpool were going to beat Milan in the Champions League final in 2005. Milan had the mental drain of having the game won and now they were involved in a lottery. Liverpool were in bonus territory as they must have felt their chance was gone at one point. Milan only scored 40% of their penalties that night. I believe this requires further analysis :)

[Closed Account 2]

The 3-0 award also buggered Denmark on a potential head-to-head with Sweden. Ranking was done on head to head not goal difference for those Euros (the North with 20pts and +3gd finished above Denmark on 20pts and +10gd because of head-to-head). Sweden and Denmark played the reverse fixture (of the abandoned one) 3 months later in in Stockholm and the Danes had to win by 4 goals to pip Sweden on head-to-head if they ended up level on points.

[BonnieShels]

Ah... the north on 20 points.

Add that to Spain '82.

[brine3]

I would live a proven top class manager, but I don't think Jose Mourinho or the chap at Dortmund would be up for managing Ireland:o

McDermott had little or no money to spend, compared to the teams around him. He had a very good season in getting them promotion and I think it was wrong that he was sacked by Reading. If you read my post, I do note my concerns about him and his lack of experience. I would put him in the one to watch category, possibly down the line he could be a very good manager.

Thing is, he is available now, he doesn't cost the Earth and we are still in with a remote chance of qualification.

Down the line he may indeed become a good manager and then we wouldn't be able to afford him or he might not be unemployed any more.

[geysir]

It's hard to say how good Largerback is as a lot of his sucess came as part of a double act with Soderberger. Once the latter left (after Euro 2004) his Sweden have had a record of finishing 2nd or 3rd in most qualification groups in a similar way to us under Trap. For WC 2006 they finished second in an easy group (Croatia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Iceland, Malta) but they lost both of the big games against Croatia, at the World Cup they drew 0-0 with Trinidad, beat Paraguay 1-0 and drew 2-2 with England - pretty average results but they finished 2nd so went into the knockouts where they lost to Germany 2-0 in a horrendous game where after conceeding on 4 minutes they gamely tried to defend a 1 goal defecit for 86 mins.

For the Euro 2008 qualifiers they finished 2nd behind Spain, but they were given a monumental boost by being awarded the Denmark away game 3-0 after a drunk (Danish) fan slapped the ref. This crippled the Danish chances of finishing second. In the Swedes big matches they beat Spain at home and lost to them away, drew at home with Denmark and were awarded the away match, but they only took one point from the two games with the north (drew 1-1 in Stockholm lost 2-1 in Belfast). You have to give them credit for getting into second but they were not all that convincing and dropped sloppy points. In the tournament group stage they beat Greece but then lost to Russia and Spain so went out. For WC 2010 they didnt make it and finished 3rd behind Denmark and Portugal. In their key matches against those two they lost home and away to the Danes and drew 0-0 twice with Portugal, two points from a possible 12 against the big teams wasnt enough and Largerback walked. Is his qualification record at Sweden significantly better than Traps? 3 Campaigns: twice runner up and once third? I dont think he built a particular identity in terms of the Swedish national team, the football was functional rather than fluid and there is a case for saying a lot of his success came from the foundations that Svensson and Soderberger created in the decade before him.

He then took charge of Nigeria at the 2010 WC, and while it's harsh to judge a manager who had less than 6 months with the squad, Largerbeck certainly wasnt a success at Nigeria. They lost 1-0 to Argentina in the first match. In the second match they were in a great position, 1 up vs Greece, but contrived to throw it away due to bad discipline and lost 2-1. Amazingly they still had a chance of going through in their final match as they took the lead against South Korea, but they ended up drawing 2-2 and went out of the group stage with one point. I would say the FAI should look at him after Trap goes (end of this campaign at the latest) but I dont think he has some sort of golden elixir and I would be suprised if the results would be much better.
Much of that read like a wiki account. I mean how on earth can you even mention Nigerian discipline during one World Cup finals game when he was a temp manager? Anyone can write a glowing tribute about Trap and what he managed to achieve with Ireland with paltry football resources and anyone can write the opposite.
I never watched any games with Sweden in the qualifiers, just on occasion at the Finals, when apart from USA'94 I would be bored rigid.
Zlatan makes them an interesting proposition now to watch but without Zlatan I would not watch them play.
That's how Sweden are. On occasion they produce a brilliant footballer like Torbjorn Nilsson, Larson and Zlatan, most times it's a sum of the Volvo and Saab parts.
Lagerback has transformed a relatively talented bunch of players who were stuck defending for 90 minute against teams like Sweden and Denmark, into into an effective team playing attractive football, which has the ball for 50% of the game and getting results. He has proved his worth and not living on the back of what somebody else was supposed to have achieved for sweden on his behalf.

[Closed Account 2]

Much of that read like a wiki account. I mean how on earth can you even mention Nigerian discipline during one World Cup finals game when he was a temp manager? Anyone can write a glowing tribute about Trap and what he managed to achieve with Ireland with paltry football resources and anyone can write the opposite.
I never watched any games with Sweden in the qualifiers, just on occasion at the Finals, when apart from USA'94 I would be bored rigid.
Zlatan makes them an interesting proposition now to watch but without Zlatan I would not watch them play.
That's how Sweden are. On occasion they produce a brilliant footballer like Torbjorn Nilsson, Larson and Zlatan, most times it's a sum of the Volvo and Saab parts.
Lagerback has transformed a relatively talented bunch of players who were stuck defending for 90 minute against teams like Sweden and Denmark, into into an effective team playing attractive football, which has the ball for 50% of the game and getting results. He has proved his worth and not liv what somebody else was supposed to have achieved for sweden on his behal.

Sorry it was such a long and complex post for you to read . I detailed his qualification record with Sweden, pointed out it was similar to Traps and in the key games against the bigger teams the resuls were mixed at best.

He couldn't turn Nigeria around in 6 months, they still suffered from the same problems they had prior to his appointment, problems that Keshi eventually started to rectify. In fact if you want a barometer of Swedish managers in temporary charge of teams during the WC Svens Ivory Coast did significantly better in a harder group than Largerbacks Nigeria. Given this its unlikely Largerback will turn things around for us if he was appointed now as there are only around 6 months left.

You say he's proved his worth but what exactly has he proved, when you look at the facts (ie results) I would say he's on par with the squads he's had in the qualification groups they've been drawn in.

[ifk101]

Lagerback has transformed a relatively talented bunch of players who were stuck defending for 90 minute against teams like Sweden and Denmark, into into an effective team playing attractive football, which has the ball for 50% of the game and getting results. He has proved his worth and not living on the back of what somebody else was supposed to have achieved for sweden on his behalf.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/match/2012/sep/07/iceland-v-norway
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/match/2012/sep/11/cyprus-v-iceland
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/match/2012/oct/12/albania-v-iceland
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/match/2012/oct/16/iceland-v-switzerland
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/match/2013/mar/22/slovenia-v-iceland

Near enough to 50% possession in the Norway and Slovenia games. Otherwise the statistics from the above games would suggest Iceland have been outplayed more often than not.

[Yard of Pace]

I don't particularly agree with it but I think the next manager has to come from Ireland or Britain. I don't think international football is rocket science. I've yet to see a post on any forum hasn't mentioned that we should have gone 4-5-1 after 60/70 minutes with Green or Wes coming on. We'd have gotten three points then. I'd bet my life on it.

Anyway, the players nowadays, they seem a delicate lot (Gibson, Ireland, Foley etc), or slightly insane (McClean, Duffy) and while Trap didn't help himself, I think first and foremost the new manager should be someone who the players respect and can relate to. As regards McDermott, Paul Merson (yeah, I know) said on Soccer Saturday that the Reading players were mad about him. If a manager can organise a team, make the necessary calls and the players enjoy coming to play for Ireland and for the manager.....the rest will fall into place. Imo.

[Stuttgart88]

I think that's a fair analysis. Very few international managers make the difference. It's usually abbot the players and a bit of common sense. I think we have the players to be a strong candidate for second place but I think that the manager's lack of trust in the players is self defeating. If the players felt that the manager trusted them and wasn't making strange calls, and the squad was pumped with a sense of common purpose then the only other parts a manager has to bring is relatively basic.

I think Trap is failing on most of the above. I don't like saying it because I like him, I think he's an extraordinary model of dignity and elegance and an extraordinary physical phenomenon for a 74 year old.

There are probably very few genuinely accretive managers out there that we can afford, but probably a few who wouldn't fail to unite an Irish squad and who would avoid doing some of the dumb things Trap has done (insert list of inconsistent or just plain odd decisions her).

I think Yopper's post above is one of the most sensible I've read so far.

[bennocelt]

We've already had Lars Lagerbäck as manager. He just called himself Brian Kerr at the time. I'd imagine Lagerbäck is content managing a team where stringing a couple of passes together is called revolutionary.

Agreed, nothing special IMHO, would be another wasted appointment.

[shakermaker1982]

Brian McDermott is available & I'd give him the job this morning.

He might not be a sexy name but I think we need to look closer to home for the next appointment. I want somebody living in Ireland or England who can go to a game every week & follow up on any promising youngsters playing reserve team football.

I like the Trap but I think he has reached the end with us. I respect what he has achieved with us and am extremely grateful for the first 2 campaigns but time for a new broom. Sadly the Trap has weathered another storm so unless we draw with the Faroes in June we've got him for the full campaign.

[paul_oshea]

bennocelt the eamon dunphy of foot.ie always knocking never offering a suggestion. :D

[geysir]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/match/2012/sep/07/iceland-v-norway
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/match/2012/sep/11/cyprus-v-iceland
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/match/2012/oct/12/albania-v-iceland
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/match/2012/oct/16/iceland-v-switzerland
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/match/2013/mar/22/slovenia-v-iceland

Near enough to 50% possession in the Norway and Slovenia games. Otherwise the statistics from the above games would suggest Iceland have been outplayed more often than not.
Near enough to 50% possession in the games that they got exceptional deserved results in. A game played in a deluge in Albania which they won. A poor game in Cyprus And you would have to have seen the ding dong game against Switzerland to have an overview of that one.
Not bad for 6th seeds.

[geysir]

Sorry it was such a long and complex post for you to read . I detailed his qualification record with Sweden, pointed out it was similar to Traps and in the key games against the bigger teams the resuls were mixed at best.
He couldn't turn Nigeria around in 6 months, they still suffered from the same problems they had prior to his appointment, problems that Keshi eventually started to rectify. In fact if you want a barometer of Swedish managers in temporary charge of teams during the WC Svens Ivory Coast did significantly better in a harder group than Largerbacks Nigeria. Given this its unlikely Largerback will turn things around for us if he was appointed now as there are only around 6 months left.
You say he's proved his worth but what exactly has he proved, when you look at the facts (ie results) I would say he's on par with the squads he's had in the qualification groups they've been drawn in.
I read your post but it just read like a Wiki account. Based on a Wiki cv, Trap looks like the creme de la creme.
If you have watched Lagerback's qualifying games when manager of Sweden, and you have an opinion based on observation of the available squad, opposition etc. then fair enough. I only have it that he has a vast experience with Sweden and now I see the value of his expertise with a squad of intl players. What I see I like.
And I never even remotely hinted that Lagerback could come in for this qual campaign. If anything I said November.

[OwlsFan]

I just don't see this Brian McDermott thing except as a reaction to having Father Time in control at the moment. His former team conceded the most goals in the Premiership, even more than Wigan. Sure, it is a small club among the big boys, but is that not us as well, so why should he be able to compete with the Germanys etc of this world based upon his track record at Reading? I would not see us reaching the heights (yes heights) we reached under Trap. For years I have heard calls for the head of managers at Wednesday and I have seen 20 come and go, of whom only 5 (salutes Jack Charlton) improved things. Not of course an argument not to change things but an argument to make sure the right candidate is chosen with experience (but perhaps not 74 years of experience). I would suggest that Martin O'Neill will become available sooner rather than later and he would be my choice. I could see the wheels totally coming off the rails with McDermott but then I don't have my favourite crystal ball to hand at the moment.

[jbyrne]

I don't particularly agree with it but I think the next manager has to come from Ireland or Britain. I don't think international football is rocket science. I've yet to see a post on any forum hasn't mentioned that we should have gone 4-5-1 after 60/70 minutes with Green or Wes coming on. We'd have gotten three points then. I'd bet my life on it.


when kerr went to 5 in midfield when robbie went off v israel 2005 and us 2 nil up at the time he got slated when it ended 2-2 for doing so. on the one hand the negativity stick is used to beat trap when it suits but when he does something semi-positive like keep 2 up front on tuesday he gets beaten with that stick too.