Trap Out and/or Delaney Out

[Noelys Guitar]

Then Tuesday may well be his last game because on current form I think the Faroes at home will fancy taking a point off us at least.

He said he will not resign even if we get beaten on Tuesday. This is all about getting his payoff in full.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/why-go-im-doing-a-good-job-says-defiant-trapattoni-3258506.html

[shakermaker1982]

The end is in sight. The mood of foot.ie is a good indicator. Once 90% of the international forum posters wants you gone your on borrowed time. I'd say it was 50/50 after Euro 2012.

He just needs to lose the majority of the dressing room & Delaney will have to act.

[CraftyToePoke]

He just needs to lose the majority of the dressing room & Delaney will have to act.

That ship has sailed too surely ? I mean is a dressing room minus so many players available for selection likely to be a happy one still ? Is a team who have begun conceding in the manner Ireland have of late not already collectively tuned out of Traps verbal meanderings? I think we have been privy to only some of the player/manager fallout, as I posted somewhere before. That dressing room is a mess for a while now.

Delaney gave this contract and its tough for him to come out of this looking good politically after such a financial and personal misjudgment. So he's fudging. If a senior player or two were to tell the truth, it would change/hasten things maybe.

[Bungle]

I think he has totally lost the dressing room. Delaney appears very quiet and I haven't read about him saying that Trap has his support publicly. It appears that Delaney is waiting for Trap to make the decision, which won't happen. I think this could linger on until March. Alternatively, we could get through Tuesday and then try and get a new manager in, who will have at least one, but maybe two friendlies under his belt, before the games in March.

I went to the game with my 82 year old dad - a man who has played football and coached football to a decent standard and has given up thousands of hours of his time to coaching young lads and girls, even long in to his 70's. I have watched him talk depressingly about how the FAI suits wouldn't listen to guys like him and their ideas for change. He was preaching about kids playing in smaller goals and with 6/7 side 20 or 30 years ago. On Friday, we took our season ticket seats at the very top of the West Upper and I watched as he struggled to make it to the seats. He has recently had 2 very bad vertigo attacks, but nothing was going to stop him from watching his beloved Ireland and to also see a fantastic German team. Towards the end of the game, he turned to me and said that he hoped we are awful in the Faroe's game, so that Trap would leave. He was close to tears. I suppose when you get to his age and love football, you don't think what will Ireland be like in 10 years time....you just are living for each day. My father, even in the darkest days would never have wanted Ireland to play badly. When Trap and the FAI lose supporters like him, then you know things need to change.

I hope we win on Tuesday and if you asked me I would rather us win by 5 or 6 with fast paced German type football, then win 2-1 with a late goal after a horrendous performance. No matter how he win (if we do), there will be a few lads backing Trap. Some will point to Sweden winning there 2-1 and Austria drawing in Kazakhstan. Good luck to you lads. I admire your loyalty, but I despair at your naivety. In some ways, your blind loyalty is part of the problem. Ireland will never change if we set our standards so low that regular trashings by admittedly brilliant teams become acceptable, even in Dublin or if we point to poor results by other teams. All on sites like this, or on YBIG are here because we care about the national team. We have different opinions, but we all care. After the Euro's, I was torn between Trap staying or going. No I cannot for the life of me fathom how anybody would support him. The most annoying thing is that Trap won't play his best 11. There again, you wonder has he even seen Wilson play at Stoke, or has he made the trip to see Hoolahan and maybe speak with Pilkington at Carrow Road. Has he gone to the Hawthorns and seen Long rip very good defenders a new one. I doubt it. We are not Spain, we are Ireland. We need to maximise every little bit of talent that we have at our disposal and not alienate half the team.

Ireland does not have the world class players we used to. However, we have mostly decent enough premiership players, who should form the basis of a decent team. One poster talked about some of Sweden's team and it's players and rightly said that it isn't on the whole much better than ours, bar Ibrahimovic. We are a mid-ranking decent European type team i.e a country that should be challenging for qualification and be able to give every team a game, home or away. However, we are now sliding towards not just mediocrity, but minnow like status if we can accept the performances of late.

[brine3]

What we need is a disciplined manager who commands respect, who is obsessive enough to follow the club progress of every Irish player, who plays organised, modern, technical football. And who is at the stage of their career where an international job is interesting. And who doesn't cost the Earth. And who speaks good English.

Doesn't exist, you say?

Co Adriaanse is out of a job.

This man took Willem II (who? exactly) to the Champions League and AZ Alkmaar to the UEFA Cup semi-finals. He is the saviour of the underdogs and refuses to let small teams roll over. He is exactly the manager we need.

[p2011]

The mood of foot.ie is a good indicator. Once 90% of the international forum posters wants you gone your on borrowed time.

Is there anyone left here who wants Trap still in charge in November? And who can seriously make a case for what he can do for us with the future in mind (2013, 2014 and beyond)?

[the doc]

Mr Trapattoni has not lost the dressing room, he still knows where it is!
I'd say the players are still 100% with him and Marco.
Some of the players who aren't being picked have only themselves to blame in my opinion.
They should stop bleating to the media and be accountable for their part in not being selected.
If you turn up when you feel like it, then you can't expect to play.

Loyalty works both ways.

I'm backing the Boys in Green, are you?

In Trap we trust!

[shakermaker1982]

Well the Trap keeps picking you Sean so your bound to want him to stay!

[shakermaker1982]

Mypost and Owlsfan would still be loyal to the Trap at a guess. I've not seen them on here since Friday night, probably heading to the Faroes as I type this but I know they've defended him in the past.

[The Fly]

Mypost and Owlsfan would still be loyal to the Trap at a guess. I've not seen them on here since Friday night, probably heading to the Faroes as I type this but I know they've defended him in the past.


Who are they supposed to be?

[Charlie Darwin]

Mr Trapattoni has not lost the dressing room, he still knows where it is!
I'd say the players are still 100% with him and Marco.
Some of the players who aren't being picked have only themselves to blame in my opinion.
They should stop bleating to the media and be accountable for their part in not being selected.
If you turn up when you feel like it, then you can't expect to play.

Loyalty works both ways.

I'm backing the Boys in Green, are you?

In Trap we trust!
You don't need to be so blindly loyal, the new manager will pick you too.

[TrapAPony]

In Trap we trust!

This phrase sickens my guts

[Angus]

Few thoughts:

We do not have the players to compete at a much higher level - we overachieved in getting to the euros - but we have a team of journeymen - for the first time in a generation we have nobody who can compete in the champions league level

We have been abysmal the last few games and while that is by and large a function of the players, there is also clearly a problem with the manager

Any of us in Delaney's shoes would be comparing the cost of getting rid of Trap with the chances of a new manager doing materially better - from my chair, I see a different maanger doing a bit better, but not materially

So the assessment has to be a chat with Trap to restate his goals - he has to blood new players, he has to give everyone a chance, to give the next maanger (after Trap's contract is up) a decent shot

Also why in ireland to we give coaches a contract just before a tournament ? has no administrator got the cojones to tell a coach to get lost ?

[Colbert Report]

Few thoughts:

We do not have the players to compete at a much higher level - we overachieved in getting to the euros - but we have a team of journeymen - for the first time in a generation we have nobody who can compete in the champions league level

We have been abysmal the last few games and while that is by and large a function of the players, there is also clearly a problem with the manager

Any of us in Delaney's shoes would be comparing the cost of getting rid of Trap with the chances of a new manager doing materially better - from my chair, I see a different maanger doing a bit better, but not materially

So the assessment has to be a chat with Trap to restate his goals - he has to blood new players, he has to give everyone a chance, to give the next maanger (after Trap's contract is up) a decent shot

Also why in ireland to we give coaches a contract just before a tournament ? has no administrator got the cojones to tell a coach to get lost ?

I believe that Trap's old contract was actually due to expire before the start of the Euros in June.

How big of an idiot would Delaney have looked like if we had gotten out of the group without having given Trap a contract extension already?

[Diarmo]

Few thoughts:

We do not have the players to compete at a much higher level - we overachieved in getting to the euros - but we have a team of journeymen - for the first time in a generation we have nobody who can compete in the champions league level

We have been abysmal the last few games and while that is by and large a function of the players, there is also clearly a problem with the manager

Any of us in Delaney's shoes would be comparing the cost of getting rid of Trap with the chances of a new manager doing materially better - from my chair, I see a different maanger doing a bit better, but not materially

So the assessment has to be a chat with Trap to restate his goals - he has to blood new players, he has to give everyone a chance, to give the next maanger (after Trap's contract is up) a decent shot

Also why in ireland to we give coaches a contract just before a tournament ? has no administrator got the cojones to tell a coach to get lost ?

We should have agreed a rolling contract with him. Like a club does for an injury ravaged player.

Seriously though, we need to get Trap to leave pronto. Maybe for the Greece Friendly we could introduce the new manager and then have some kind of half time appreciation for Given, Duff, Kilbane, Keane, Dunne & Trap? That way no one would boo....

[Angus]

I stand corrected - hadn't realised it expired before the tournament.....which in and of itself is daft - surely you build in the timeframe involved ?

[keenanboy]

The main issue here is this: We don't have the players.
It's that simple, we have too many poor, not ordinary, footballers in the squad. And to think that by bringing in McLean, Clark etc etc will dramatically change things is foolish.

Trapattoni is correct to defend his position. Unlucky not to qualify for South Africa, and then gets us to Euro 2012.
We hadn't qualified for a tournament in 10 years!

We need to get our heads out of our asses if we believe a new manager will miraculously turn this team around.

You can't polish a turd. Romantic notions about McCarthy coming back are nonsense, we'd be having this same bitching session about him 2 years from now,
whining about poor team selections, losing the dressing room and all that rubbish.

And this losing the dressing room stuff fries my brain, if some players have lost faith in his methods, they should still never lose pride in the shirt.
There was zero pride, zero passion and zero fight on Friday night. No hard tackles al la Roy Keane v Marc Overmars 2001, that might have resulted in a few yellows but maybe set a different tone?

If they won't play for the manager should they not play for the fans? Who dropped good money to fill the Aviva stadium? Who dropped bigger money to follow them to Poland in June?

Am I the only one who apportions at least some blame to the players?

Aiden McGeady is a complete waste of space, Ward is a LOI full back at best (with no disrespect intended to LOI players) with no positional sense. Darren O'Dea no comment. John O'Shea was always a soft touch and Westwood is a seriously suspect keeper.

If they fail to win on Tuesday I will 100% blame the players who line out.

[brine3]

You can't polish a turd.

Yes you can, the Faroes went to Germany and only shipped three goals. They didn't lose 6-1.

We have better players than the Faroe Islands, don't we?

[Irish_Praha]

Yes you can, the Faroes went to Germany and only shipped three goals. They didn't lose 6-1.

We have better players than the Faroe Islands, don't we?

Time to bring back Kerr then :p

[nigel-harps1954]

Some people must be absolutely delirious to actually believe Trap is doing any sort of a decent job.

We should have beat France to quality for South Africa.

We beat easily the worst team in the play-offs after coming out of one of the easiest groups to qualify for Euro 2012.


Trap is a bluffer. Far too loyal to muck players, treatment of other players is questionable to say the least.

[amaccann]

...
I'm backing the Boys in Green, are you?

In Trap we trust!

Soooo, this horrendous 6-1 humiliation is actually all part of Traps ingenious grand-plan, that only 'true' fans could appreciate or understand?

[A face]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/404722_482637518437366_972597127_n.jpg

[The Fly]

...http://z5.ifrm.com/5902/57/0/e5024227//e5024227.jpg

[Charlie Darwin]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s480x480/404722_482637518437366_972597127_n.jpg
The irony being that the football played under Charlton was the definition of caveman football.

[TrapAPony]

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1260818786/indophoto2_normal.JPG IndoSport ‏@Indo_Sport (https://twitter.com/Indo_Sport)
Trap could be sacked by end of the week & one English manager is waiting in the wings.

[Charlie Darwin]

Depends on what they mean by 'could' - is it dependent Tuesday's result? If so, he'll probably not be sacked.

[Sullivinho]

#HedgingOurBets

[tetsujin1979]

if that Photoshop was published by a tabloid of English managers, we'd all be saying that would never happen here. it's a disgrace, plain and simple and i hope the original author is ashamed of it.
this sort of behavior has been creeping in since the star, or the sun, put Staunton's head on a muppet's body.

[TrapAPony]

Stephen Kelly refuses to board plane to Faroes? Must be some truth to it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2217770/Giovanni-Trapattoni-faces-Ireland-revolt.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2217770/Giovanni-Trapattoni-faces-Ireland-revolt.html)

[Charlie Darwin]

Wow if true.

[Grafter]

Stephen Kelly refuses to board plane to Faroes? Must be some truth to it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2217770/Giovanni-Trapattoni-faces-Ireland-revolt.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2217770/Giovanni-Trapattoni-faces-Ireland-revolt.html)

Something must have really irked him, he seems a gentleman footballer in the mould of Kilbane.... professional pride on Tuesday will hopefully prevail and then the real business will be done before Greece friendly...

[gastric]

Don't know what truth you put on this, but the Indo is reporting that Trap could be gone after the Faroes game. Probably a beat up, but there is no smoke....With a few Irish managers looking for employment, maybe they have decided that the time is right to find a replacement.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/trapattoni-could-be-sacked-within-the-next-week-3258912.html

[Colbert Report]

The players need to learn their place. Guys like Gibson, Ireland, and Kelly have all turned their back on their country. Shameful.

[ifk101]

It's not a question of the quality of player pool available to him. It's a question of whether he was gotten the best out of what's available to him.

Going back to the start of Trapattoni's regime, the initial signs were positive. I recall us playing away to Norway and being extremely impressed we how we retained and controlled the ball. We were extremely comfortable on the ball, passing it around with ease. With the exception of Finnan, Reid and Kilbane, the team that played that game were all available to Trapattoni up to and including the Euros. So there hasn't been a significant change in the pool available to him to stop him from playing a more expansive game. He has chosen a more restrictive approach to games which in fairness to him has gotten the results we needed to qualify for a major championship.

Now that we were completely outplayed in the Euros necessitated that we take stock and look to change. We haven't done so. If anything we are moving towards a more restrictive and primitive approach to games. Trapattoni's comments that we were realistically always going to play second fiddle to Germany and we don't have the players isn't going to inspire confidence in anyone and isn't the rallying call that's needed after a record 6-1 home defeat.

I'm sure Trapattoni's days are numbered now but unfortunately it won't be soon enough for the Faroes, a game where another humiliation would appear to be on the cards.

[SwanVsDalton]

That Stephen Kelly bust up is another ignominious embarrassment. Kelly by all accounts is a real pro and fairly quiet. I'd have thought he'd be a Trap loyalist despite being left out on Friday too. Sinking ship.

[paul_oshea]

I have a feeling that Trap is one of those managers who treats the players he picks regularly completely different to those generally on the fringes/not being selected.

Its funny though, before many were concerned about these communication issues and it was suggested that it was just being blown out of proportion. Now as the results start changing, everyone believes there is trouble in the camp and communication issues.

[KK77]

Don't know what truth you put on this, but the Indo is reporting that Trap could be gone after the Faroes game. Probably a beat up, but there is no smoke....With a few Irish managers looking for employment, maybe they have decided that the time is right to find a replacement.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/trapattoni-could-be-sacked-within-the-next-week-3258912.html

The fella who wrote the article is now saying Trap is defo gone regardless of the result tomorrow night.

[geysir]

It's not a question of the quality of player pool available to him. It's a question of whether he was gotten the best out of what's available to him.

I'd agree with that.
Why is that modest* players in a team like the Faroes can bridge a huge gap and play a decent effective passing game against a vastly superior team, but we end up by scapegoating individuals in our team as a large part of our weakness?
Fans do love to point out just how cráp such and such a player is, yet the Faroes have a team composed of the cráppiest players in Europe.
Some of our players are certainly not technically great but would function competently in a cohesive unit.

Some players confidence levels are affected more than others. Much of that has to do with the way players are set up to play, is not getting the best out the team and that seeps back into players. When the team tactics hit a brick wall, a string of humiliating games, the justifications for the way we are set up just don't hold water any more. Judging by McGeady, he was like a fish out of water on Friday evening, his confidence levels had dropped lower than his first important game for us, back when he was floundering on the wing in the mud at Slovakia away, he literally threw in the towel after 20 minutes against Germany. He's not grittiest of players but his confidence levels are primarily down to having no confidence in the plan.

* Defintion of modest players - mostly part time players in a local league, ranked amongst the lowest in Europe.

[SwanVsDalton]

The fella who wrote the article is now saying Trap is defo gone regardless of the result tomorrow night.

He tweeted: "As per this morning's paper, just a matter of time now before it's all over for Trapattoni. This regime has run its course.'

Seems to be reiterating what was in the paper. I'm not sure if that means he's gone within days or if he's a dead man walking who might hang on for sometime yet.

[Noelys Guitar]

Hes gone no matter what the result on Tuesday which for me and I'm sure many others is a win-win situation. Get the three points and get rid of a divisive manager. The players meeting on Saturday put and end to Trapatonni's rein.. Delegation to the FAI and that was the end. Doubt anyone is lined up as new manager but you never know.. If O'Brien stumps up the money again don't rule out Redknapp. I would say it will be one of McCarthy or O'Leary. McCarthy has a lot of options so O'Leary who does not might be the frontrunner. It will have to be somebody out of work as there will be on compo payments to get an employed manager out of his contract.

[Spudulika]

The fella who wrote the article is now saying Trap is defo gone regardless of the result tomorrow night.

Daniel McDonnell wrote it, enough said. He's a good guy and can be a good journo, but he's been set on removing Trap since the INM battle heated up. The Indo is not good enough for bogroll.

[Noelys Guitar]

Daniel McDonnell wrote it, enough said. He's a good guy and can be a good journo, but he's been set on removing Trap since the INM battle heated up. The Indo is not good enough for bogroll.
The FAI have been leaking this story to other journos not just McDonnell.

[Bungle]

I have a feeling that Trap is one of those managers who treats the players he picks regularly completely different to those generally on the fringes/not being selected.

Its funny though, before many were concerned about these communication issues and it was suggested that it was just being blown out of proportion. Now as the results start changing, everyone believes there is trouble in the camp and communication issues.

Completely agree. It does not seem to be the happiest of camps and Trap strikes me as a guy who would have a core of loyal players around him. In fairness, I remember two of the great United and Liverpool players from the 60s (can't remember which ones) talking about Busby and Shankly and how they would be built up and their egos buttered when they were in the first team, but when they were injured or out of the 1st team, they were worthless. I guess football is a cut throat business.

What really strikes me is that Trap was loved by many of the players he had when he was a younger and perhaps more enthusiastic manager. Guys like Brady and Hamann mention this and you get the impression they would take a bullet for him. I think I read Markus Babbell commenting on this difference between Trap when he managed Bayern and then moved to manage Stuttgart some years later. Babell hinted at Trap being almost a totally different manager and that he seemed to have lost alot of the interest in for example coaching the younger players etc that he would have previously had.

[KK77]

Daniel McDonnell wrote it, enough said. He's a good guy and can be a good journo, but he's been set on removing Trap since the INM battle heated up. The Indo is not good enough for bogroll.

He's getting his info from Dennis O'Brien afaik.

[Spudulika]

He's getting his info from Dennis O'Brien afaik.

And pray tell how do you know? Seeing as he's been pushing to get rid of Trap since before DOB forced his way in, it'd be odd that he's continuing the same tune, plus it'd put DOB on a major payout and loss of face. Odd don't you think? Or know?

[BonnieShels]

Mypost and Owlsfan would still be loyal to the Trap at a guess. I've not seen them on here since Friday night, probably heading to the Faroes as I type this but I know they've defended him in the past.

Doubt it. There's no direct bus...

I'll get my coat.

[BonnieShels]

On the whole Trap Out thing it's just like McCarthy all over again for me.

I wanted McCarthy gone after WC2002 not because I didn't want him as a manager but because of the obvious vitriol waiting in the wings once the next campaign got off to a bad start. He should have went on a high.
Likewise, after the Euros, and regardless of the results there Trap should have left simply because this campaign was never gonna top the highs of the last 2 for him.
I don't want to have bad memories of this guy; I still sometimes pinch myself at a manager like him being our coach. But he has taken us as far as he can 6-1 hammering or not.
It's a shame it's come to this.
:(

[paul_oshea]

Mypost and Owlsfan would still be loyal to the Trap at a guess. I've not seen them on here since Friday night, probably heading to the Faroes as I type this but I know they've defended him in the past..

There is way more than that, ones who consider themselves seasoned and reasoned posters on here, and one in particular who takes the populous opinion of the time, and yet in the past made out we were over-reacting with all these issues and it was being blown out of proportion. One in particular was going on like he had inside information and an air of arrogance how he deduced his information coming to the conclusion that his reading of the situation was more correct than anyone else. From the start its always been obvious there were problems with Trap and his communication and how he got on with some players. Its only been highlighted and taken heed of now because the results have followed the inevitable performances.

I'd be happy to name and shame them :D

I'm very worried about where we might go in this campaign with a new manager. I still(perhaps want to instead of) believe if Trap made the changes necessary and adapted that he could still get the results if he could keep all players onside, away from home. The likes of o'leary seriously worry me, even mccarthy he is too loyal and would make the same mistakes as Trap.

[BonnieShels]

There is way more than that, ones who consider themselves seasoned and reasoned posters on here, and one in particular who takes the populous opinion of the time, and yet in the past made out we were over-reacting with all these issues and it was being blown out of proportion. One in particular was going on like he had inside information and an air of arrogance how he deduced his information coming to the conclusion that his reading of the situation was more correct than anyone else. From the start its always been obvious there were problems with Trap and his communication and how he got on with some players. Its only been highlighted and taken heed of now because the results have followed the inevitable performances.

I'd be happy to name and shame them :D

It was shakermaker who made that initial quote. I was merely being "witty" about the resident space cadet.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd be happy to name and shame them :D

Why don't you then? You're always referring to posters here by how you perceive their attributes. Stop hiding and spit it out.

I share your concerns about Mick making same mistakes, but I think he'd be a lot better. I still highly rate Trap's away record and wish we could continue on same basis, but we are now rubbish at home and rubbish against strong teams. That's not just down to the quality of the players.