Keith Fahey

[finnpark]

He was the best player on the pitch and is certainy worth a run out in the B squad. At this stage his ability to perform at international level is untested. But there are numerous players in the B and Full squads who are proven to be not good enough. It would also be a boost to the EL and an encouragement to other players that if they perform well they will get opportunities.

Hertha have 8 internationals. Theya re certainly better than Cyprus, Georgia and Montenegro.

[gustavo]

Hertha have 8 internationals. Theya re certainly better than Cyprus, Georgia and Montenegro.

I think you'll find all those teams have at least 11 internationals each ;)

[Duggie]

fahey is class, but will never be in an ireland team. we all know that. lovely piece of skill to shoot and hit the post yesterday and his overall passing was lovely to watch. given a run of games he could defo make an impact at championship level. hope we dont lose him from the league tho.

[Beavis]

Read what you post before you try and question anyone's grammar. Particularly when/how to use commas, capitals and question marks. :ball:

Both were typos :o but I accept your point. The remark was unnecessary and I'll retract it. :)

[micls]

Bennetts first game for southampton was a disaster and he was hauled off at half time, dont think he played much for them after dat and it was them who didnt extend his loan.
he is now playing in league two

Wrong.

Youre right about it being a disaster of a first game but he worked his way back in and they wanted to keep him. Reading called him back cos 3/4 of their centre halfs were injured.

hes at Brentford now I think

[lionelhutz]

He was the best player on the pitch and is certainy worth a run out in the B squad. At this stage his ability to perform at international level is untested. But there are numerous players in the B and Full squads who are proven to be not good enough. It would also be a boost to the EL and an encouragement to other players that if they perform well they will get opportunities.

I agree. To be honest, the first time I saw him play was in the away game last week - but I must say he did stand out from the rest - including the Hertha players. He seems to have a great engine and excellent reading of the game. I would like to see him in a B friendly for ireland because alot of that B squad have been tried and tested already and have failed miserably.

Why should they get another chance to show how poor they are while players like Fahey aren't given the time of day?

[Brendan 82]

Imagine if Trapp names him in the upcoming full squad. That would be some buzz!

Was Tardelli at the game last night???? He might be in with a shout

[Razors left peg]

I agree. To be honest, the first time I saw him play was in the away game last week - but I must say he did stand out from the rest - including the Hertha players. He seems to have a great engine and excellent reading of the game. I would like to see him in a B friendly for ireland because alot of that B squad have been tried and tested already and have failed miserably.

Why should they get another chance to show how poor they are while players like Fahey aren't given the time of day?

That post has changed my mind slightly... Ive said before that while he is playin in the Eircom league he can realistically be a contender for a place in the National team, but there are guys in there like Liam Miller who have had enough chances and added nothing,Jonathan Douglas has plenty of caps(someone mentioned him on another thread as a possible call up) and there are a couple of others on the list too.After seeing him again last night I have come around to thinking that he should be in the at least the B squad and possibly the full squad, he looks like a lad that could offer something different

[Supreme feet]

Fahey did impress me last night, but seeing as this is in the 'Ireland' section, I want to point out that Ireland are very well covered in central midfield at the moment. The promising Whelan-Reid partnership will be pursued with, and Andy Reid and Joey O'Brien are first-choice back-up. We rarely use more than four midfielders in a qualifying campaign anyway. For the 2002 qualifiers for example, we used only three. However, if Andy Reid or O'Brien are called into service in other positions, or Steven Reid gets injured, there may be one or two places going in the squad. The 'B' game is really a chance for Trap to assess who, from the multitude of contenders, gets these spare places, should they arise.

Trap seems to (controversially) favour Miller, but Owen Garvan would get my vote. Keith Andrews has a chance too, because of his good adjustment to Premiership life. Gibson is definitely one for the future - he's won two caps already, has played first-team football for Man United, is only 20, and thus deserves a chance to impress, if only for future reference. Anyone below this is, realistically, not going to be considered at the moment - not even Potter, Rowlands, Houlihan and others who made the B squad at Fahey's expense. In fairness, Fahey's not the only player to be disappointed. Spare a thought for Stephen McPhail and Mike Doyle, who were both outstanding last season as club captains in the Championship.

[cavan_fan]

It is possible that he may be called up to future friendly squads but he would very likely then move. From a salary point of view he would earn more in the championship and possibly in League 1 in England.

On the general point there may be some domestically based players in Irish squads in the future but I'd be surprised if they then stayed with their clubs. I'd guess there are 50-60 Irish players in England that are paid better than any player in Ireland. Over time I'd expect any top 30-40 Irish player to end up in England (unless they are unmotivated by money which would be rare for a player!)

[Qwerty]

I want to point out that Ireland are very well covered in central midfield at the moment.

We have lots of bodies but not much proven quality.

Over the last couple of years the following players have played for us in midfield: Douglas, Miller, Potter, Gibson, A. Reid, S. Reid, G Whelan, Carsley, Kilbane.

The Reids are quality players but S is injury prone and A is not in favor right now.

Quality-wise it's a big drop from Brady, R Whelan, Keane, McGrath, Townsend days. Heck who wouldn't take Holland & kinsella in a heart beat now, when Carsley couldn't get a look in.

We have some decent prospects, but Potter & Gibson appear to have stagnated. I would really like to see Garvan in the squad.

[Fergie's Son]

in my experience people who watch the games live on tv have a lesser understanding of the game because they can see players movement,team shape etc when the ball is up the other end of the pitch. you just dont get that on tv. So people who sit in the stands have a better opinion on the game than armchair supporters.

That really depends on the view you have. If you're behind the goals you really don't get to see that much. Poor seats don't allow for much analysis. Again though, outside those who are licensed or do it for a living there is no difference between someone who goes to a few EI games and someone who watches PL games on TV.

Ad hominemns aside, to suggest otherwise is just condescending.

[Fergie's Son]

Sweet jesus...

I know all I need to do about this poster now

Happy to put my knowledge of football against yours. I'm comfortable in my own skin and don't need to pretend or claim to be a "true fan" to appreciate the game on just as many levels as you do.

[Fergie's Son]

Listen fergie's son,you think it comes down to how much a player earns:o,enough said you know sfa about football.

Either you are being intentionally obtuse or English isn't your first language so I'll try and simplify it for you:

Objective criteria exists. Using said criteria indicates that Fahey is not good enough at this point in time.

[SkStu]

Happy to put my knowledge of football against yours. I'm comfortable in my own skin and don't need to pretend or claim to be a "true fan" to appreciate the game on just as many levels as you do.


how do you mean? sitting on the armchair, sitting cross ways on the armchair, balancing you dinner on your lap on the armchair, behind the armchair for a penalty shoot-out, on the edge of the armchair for exciting bits... yeah, lots of different levels for you to appreciate the game alright...

mwah hahahahaha

[adamcarr]

Bennetts first game for southampton was a disaster and he was hauled off at half time, dont think he played much for them after dat and it was them who didnt extend his loan.
he is now playing in league two

He got back in the side and started about ten consecutive games, made the Championship TOTW but was re-called. Burley had requested an extension to the loan.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_3046916,00.html

[Bohemian1890]

Objective criteria exists. Using said criteria indicates that Fahey is not good enough at this point in time.


Sure you can. We use money to value people all the time. We call it wages. Forget transfer amounts and focus on what someone is willing to pay a player week in and week out. Clearly there are enough professionals in the game that don't deem Fahey to be worth significant wages.

Perhaps they are not "real" football fans but they probably know a thing or two about the game. Enough of them don't rate him. That might change. I hope it does but until it does I highly doubt that he is good enough for the Irish starting XI.




Let's put subjectivity to one side. That is, arguing over who we think is a good player or not.

In this case it's quite simple, money


People who make their actual living in the game currently do not rate Fahey at a level where they are willing to spend significant sums paying him. As such, under objective criteria a player who is making 10k a week versus one who is making 1k a week is most likely to be the better player

:rolleyes::o

[micls]

:rolleyes::o

:D I know.

Ffs we had average fringe players on teh same money as some of the best players in teh league at other clubs.

All wages tell you is how stupid some people running clubs are

[cavan_fan]

:rolleyes::o

People are being a bit confused here. we are trying to compare players from 2 different league systems and this is always difficult. Was Henrik Larsson a great scorer or was he playing in a weak league. Was he better than Shevchenko. Well he scored more goals but the defences were weaker so......


There are a few ways of comparing Fahey with other players.

Subjectively, someone can say I've seen both and I think X is better, the problem with this is why would I trust someone else's opinion. The number of games they watch (either in real life or on TV) is probably not relevant. It just shows interest not competence. That's why I would rely on someone whose opinion I trust (e.g Trap).

The other option is to create some objective way to comapre. Irish club sides dont play English teams in competitive matches to really know if St Pat's are better than Cardiff/Wolves etc. You can create conkers-like ladders but it's a bit tenuous. (does anyone think Hull are better than Porto).

So in this free market era (still) there is a competitive market in players. Players are heavily motivated by money and tend to go where they are paid best. The idea is that the competitive nature of football and the number of managers out there mean that players tend to be paid what they are worth. Money is not a perfect science. David Beckham is paid a fortune but is not in the top 100 players in the world. But it's a good guide.

By the way I suspect Fahey will be playing for Wolves by this time next year!!

[Wangball]

I've gone on record more than once stating that the current crop of LOI players aren't good enough to play for Ireland but having been at the Pats match I'm (sort of) converted....there is no way in hell Liam Miller or Darren Potter should be getting picked ahead of Fahy in his current form

[Drumcondra 69er]

One point in relation to all the nonsense being spouted on this thread.

Making it at the top level in the game has as much to do with luck as ability. Both have to be present to make the breakthrough, many's a gifted player that never got a chance because a manager didn't fancy him or he didn't get the breaks when another player of the same talent did get them.

To suggest wages is some sort of barometer is naive in the extreme. There's only room for a certain number of 'elite' players, ability is a big part of what elevates players to that level but it's by no means the only factor.

[Fergie's Son]

One point in relation to all the nonsense being spouted on this thread.

Making it at the top level in the game has as much to do with luck as ability. Both have to be present to make the breakthrough, many's a gifted player that never got a chance because a manager didn't fancy him or he didn't get the breaks when another player of the same talent did get them.

To suggest wages is some sort of barometer is naive in the extreme. There's only room for a certain number of 'elite' players, ability is a big part of what elevates players to that level but it's by no means the only factor.

Luck may be a factor in some instances but I think are there are simply too many leagues and teams to realistically suggest that a good player will be consistently unlucky. So while luck does play a role a relatively efficient market like football will generally even out such factors as good and bad luck.

Put another way, the market currently suggests that Fahey is not good enough to make the same salary as a player currently playing in the English Championship or perhaps even in the SPL or the Scottish first division. As such, we can concur that, as it currently stands, he's not (over the long term one off games excluded) at that level. Over time, his good or bad luck won't be relevant because if he is good enough he'll be picked up.

Currently, he is very unlikely to play for the senior team. At 25 years of age it's also not a given that he will ever be elevated to a higher level. I'm hoping he does but it's not too likely. I'll note that he did play for Arsenal and Aston Villa (their youth clubs).

[sadloserkid]

Put another way, the market currently suggests that Fahey is not good enough to make the same salary as a player currently playing in the English Championship or perhaps even in the SPL or the Scottish first division.

Which second tier Scottish clubs are going to match the top tier here?

[inexile]

Luck may be a factor in some instances but I think are there are simply too many leagues and teams to realistically suggest that a good player will be consistently unlucky. So while luck does play a role a relatively efficient market like football will generally even out such factors as good and bad luck.

Put another way, the market currently suggests that Fahey is not good enough to make the same salary as a player currently playing in the English Championship or perhaps even in the SPL or the Scottish first division. As such, we can concur that, as it currently stands, he's not (over the long term one off games excluded) at that level. Over time, his good or bad luck won't be relevant because if he is good enough he'll be picked up.

Currently, he is very unlikely to play for the senior team. At 25 years of age it's also not a given that he will ever be elevated to a higher level. I'm hoping he does but it's not too likely. I'll note that he did play for Arsenal and Aston Villa (their youth clubs).


aston villa signed him from arsenal as a senior player, for a fee of 75k i think. Unfortunately he didnt make the grade there.
He is more than good enough for the SPL never mind the first division. I daresay he could even do a job in the English premier league when compared to Keith Andrews

[Colbert Report]

aston villa signed him from arsenal as a senior player, for a fee of 75k i think. Unfortunately he didnt make the grade there.
He is more than good enough for the SPL never mind the first division. I daresay he could even do a job in the English premier league when compared to Keith Andrews



Are you having a laugh? He's currently playing in a semi-professional league in Ireland ffs. He's hardly an up and coming prospect either.

[Fergie's Son]

'fergie son' you are an idiot...if you really dont think an SPL club would buy fahey if they could you are seriously seriously deluded.

good lad though keep watching the brilliant wonderful premiership like a good little barstooler.

That's a constructive post. Rather than focus on the issues, attack the poster.

Why couldn't an SPL club purchase Fahey? I'd imagine most have the money, and, at 25 he's heading into his prime. Fact is, they haven't purchased him which suggests he just isn't good enough.

[Fergie's Son]

Are you having a laugh? He's currently playing in a semi-professional league in Ireland ffs. He's hardly an up and coming prospect either.

Evidently, if you go to an EI game (by the way lads, I've been to many EI games and was a season ticket holder with Shels) you have an insight into a player's ability. An insight to their brilliance that only you (and the player's mother) can see. No one else mind you. Like a professional scout. What would they know, the bar stoolers.

Look, I hope he makes it but I doubt he will.

[irishultra]

the last i heard the top LOI teams could offer higher wages to players than they would get in scotland hence the lack of players moving there.

[Bohemian1890]

That's a constructive post. Rather than focus on the issues, attack the poster.

Why couldn't an SPL club purchase Fahey? I'd imagine most have the money, and, at 25 he's heading into his prime. Fact is, they haven't purchased him which suggests he just isn't good enough.



:eek:You are been serious:o

You are some joker.:DLOL.

[irishultra]

there is another flaw in young fergie son argument..he bases his opinion on that fahey hasn't interested other managers...how does he know this?

I would ****ing love if Trapattoni called him up.

[Supreme feet]

One thing that could count against Fahey in a scout's eye (whether for international or club recognition) is his maverick style of play. He is undoubtedly talented, with an ability to go past people and pass the ball, but the best central midfielders are those who can make space for themselves off the ball, get into good positions to receive it in that space, and thus to dictate the pace of a game.

From what I've seen of Fahey, he tries very hard to make himself available, but he's not great at making space for himself off the ball. Several times when he got the ball against Hertha, he found himself marked or surrounded; then he had to try dribbling past his marker, trying nutmegs and the like, running with the ball rather than playing it simple. He did this very well, but as a central midfielder these days, when there's so much focus on speed, tactical awareness and athleticism, it's a dangerous way of playing the game.

I remember Houlihan doing the very same things against Deportivo for Shels in 2004, doing some breathtaking things, but eventually getting caught in possession, and was culpable in that manner for Depor's opener in the Riazor. If Fahey went to the Championship, he'd probably end up shunted out on the wing, just as Houlihan has been for Norwich.

(edit) - as I'm extolling the virtues of simple, effective midfield play, I must say I thought Gary Dempsey was very impressive in this respect against Hertha. But maybe that's just Wexfordian bias! ;)

[Saint_Charlie]

I would ****ing love if Trapattoni called him up.

He won't. There's been no-one from the international set-up to watch Pats since Tardelli came to the Linfield game back around April/May.

And Pats turned down a bid from England for Fats during the summer Fergie's Son...

[charliesboots]

Pats have already turned down close to half a million for him.

Really no point putting eircom league players in the Ireland section because you just get the usual arguments for the usual suspects.

Fahey is easily good enough to be in the Irish B squad IMO.

And just to pick YoungIrish up on one thing, he didn't fail at Arsenal. He didn't like living in London so Aston Villa paid £250,000 for a 17 year old nearly 8 years ago. He got homesick at Villa and came home with a year left on his contract.

Fergie's Son, I posted the above a good few pages back, not sure if you saw it and ignored it or just missed it.

Just to add to it, Fahey earns more than a lot of lower level championship players and League 1 players.

And no Scottish PL club (aside from the Old Firm) never mind First Division club could afford Fahey.

[tetsujin1979]

And no Scottish PL club (aside from the Old Firm) never mind First Division club could afford Fahey.
What would you realistically put his transfer value at? Bearing in mind the total of the previous transfers of "the best player in the league" have barely crossed the £1m mark.

[Dodge]

Apparently a German side have made an offer for Fahey to Move in January. No details on the amount

[Dotsy]

Hertha Berlin accordning to Newstalk this morning.

[cavan_fan]

Fergie's Son, I posted the above a good few pages back, not sure if you saw it and ignored it or just missed it.

Just to add to it, Fahey earns more than a lot of lower level championship players and League 1 players.

And no Scottish PL club (aside from the Old Firm) never mind First Division club could afford Fahey.

The sad thing about this is that there seems to be an attitude that Fahey being called up would be a victory against fans of the Irish team. I will be quite happy if he is called up because I trust Trap's opinion over mere mortals like us.

Long term of course he will not stay at St Pat's if he is a regular squad member. Wolves/Sunderland & Reading's addiction to Irish players would see to that and I'd be surprised if St Pat's turned down a 1 million bid. I would also have some concern about pickinhg him regulalry if he is playing week in and week out against other eL teams. This is the same issue I have with McGeady. I'd rather an Irish international play in the Championship than in the SPL or eL as I think there is a consistent level of competition.

[Dodge]

I'd rather an Irish international play in the Championship than in the SPL or eL as I think there is a consistent level of competition.

Nobody could argue with that, but the players should be picked on their own merits, and not the level they're playing at.

If Pats were offered a million, they'd have to accept it IMO

[paul_oshea]

if he does go to germany hopefully it will open the door that stutts has spoken about in the past. I'm not trying to pee off any EL fans but I would like to see more players plying their trade on the continent rather than the championship or lower leagues in england or even SPL. Having said that if EL teams keep selling their better players how will the league actually progress to the next level?! Unless of course they are getting very good money in compensation and then themselves can look abroad to buy players(like in sweden). Hopefully for St Pats sake, they will be well compensated if fahey leaves i.e. a good transfer fee. Anybody know what the amount on offer is?

[GuisaSaigon]

It insulting but we all know as soon as he signs for Hertha Berlin, Wolves, Sunderland or whoever, he will instantly be deemed good enough. Why is it still so hard for armchair football "fans" to accept that it is possible that decent players exist in the League of Ireland?

[cavan_fan]

Nobody could argue with that, but the players should be picked on their own merits, and not the level they're playing at.

If Pats were offered a million, they'd have to accept it IMO


They should be picked on merit but I think a player will be better for us if playing in a tougher league. In the short term it would be ok but long term they will develop better if playing in the championship. Fahey's biggest problem is likely to be that he is competing with a larg-ish number of players for a very small number of places (Trap seems to intend to play no attack minded central midfielders). If only he was a left back!

[irishultra]

I honestly don't know the reason for that. Its very strange. For example the Croatian League which I wouldn't say is too far off the standard of the LOI has produced players like Modric, Eduardo and corluka etc...all were selected in a successful croatian team while playing in croatia.

[cavan_fan]

It insulting but we all know as soon as he signs for Hertha Berlin, Wolves, Sunderland or whoever, he will instantly be deemed good enough. Why is it still so hard for armchair football "fans" to accept that it is possible that decent players exist in the League of Ireland?

Firstly, thats the way of the world, Saha was only called up to the French squad when he moved from Fulham to Man Utd.

Anyway I dont think that move on it's own would get him a place. What it would give him is a chance to prove himself regularly. If he goes to Wolves and fails to get in the squad he won't be playing for Ireland. If he does and plays well he has a chance (though look at Stephen Ward).

There are as many players based in England who don't seem to get a chance as there are in Ireland. I dont know why Gibson/Potter/Douglas and Miller keep getting called up when Rowlands/Quinn/Lawrence dont but that may be because I'm not a good enough judge.

[Dodge]

There are as many players based in England who don't seem to get a chance as there are in Ireland. I dont know why Gibson/Potter/Douglas and Miller keep getting called up when Rowlands/Quinn/Lawrence dont but that may be because I'm not a good enough judge.

I know what you're saying but the 3 you mentioned have been involved with several squads. They have been givena chance, and maybe they proved they weren't good enough.

[irishultra]

the thing is how good is fahey? people say we are weak in midfield, but we actually have a big selection of potentional midfielders.

[irishultra]

will fahey be playing against bray tonight?

[third policeman]

the thing is how good is fahey? people say we are weak in midfield, but we actually have a big selection of potentional midfielders.


Problem is that too many of our potentially better players are not getting a chance in the full squad (mcCann, garvan, McCarthy et al). Not surprised that fcahey is getting a move to Germany, He is clearly a class player

[Saint_Charlie]

will fahey be playing against bray tonight?


I hope not. Pat's are playing Finn Harps!

[irishultra]

lmao...away..forgot....it was meant to be on tv right?

[Saint_Charlie]

lmao...away..forgot....it was meant to be on tv right?

It was meant to be on telly alright but because Bohs can win the league tonight RTE are showing that game instead. I’m not sure if Fahey will play or not tonight. He might be rested after Tuesday’s match.