Keith Fahey

[Razors left peg]

I realised my mistake, edited the original post.

Look, the EL hasn't produced an Irish player for a competitive international since the early '80s. On the evidence of tonight, against moderate opposition, in a footballing climate where teams from badly-funded and obscure leagues (like BATE and Anorthosis) are getting good results across Europe, what the EL is offering us isn't good enough. Throughout the last 20 years (our international team's most successful period), players from the Championship and Premiership, with the odd player from further afield, have dominated the selection. Do you think that a player from the EL could improve the Irish side now, when the difference in standard is probably more profound than ever?

And don't call me a liar either. I said that the likes of Guy, Fitzpatrick and Rogers are limited. They are, in my opinion. Fahey is clearly too good for the EL, but like Houlihan before him, he will have to move to realise his potential. Just like Conor Sinnott will probably have to leave Youths to realise his.

The Premiership is a better standard than the Eircom League. Are you going to argue with that, or call me a liar for saying so?

Good post

[Bohemian1890]

More players from the Premiership played in Euro 2008 than any other league. Despite England and Ireland not qualifying. Think that says it all. Only the Spanish and Italian leagues can arguably give better preparation for the international stage. There are some lazy players in the EPL like those you mentioned, but some of the Pat's players tonight, like Kirby and Fitzpatrick, were willing and hard-working, but very, very limited. Hertha were awful today but Pats weren't good enough to score against them. That worries me, in terms of EL teams advancing in Europe, or feeding players into the international set-up. Especially when you see BATE scoring twice against Juventus tonight.

Nah,man your in a mess make up your mind,BTW bad edit,as i had already posted what you said:o:rolleyes:
"Well would you look at that everybody he edited his post,as the strange logic he accused me of having is actually his own,what a tool"

[tetsujin1979]

tets, i have been to Shels and Pats european games before - also went to Rovers Djurgardens to enjoy them losing and me making a quick buck - and i know plenty of Bohs fans who have done the same, including Drogs games from last year. I also have noticed a number of league jerseys when Bohs have played in Europe so to answer your question, yes, i would expect opposition fans to go along, though not necessarily to cheer them on too enthusiastically. ;)

which leads to my next point - i went along cos i like to watch live footie and to see how irish teams will fare against their european rivals. I think anyone with an interest in footie would (or at least should) consider going to these games. But maybe i am expecting too much from soccer fans, though i dont think so really. Its still 11 men v 11 men and its still enjoyable. The premiership is streets ahead and of course i take an interest in that too but i think that those who really, and i mean really, enjoy the game should go to live games. And thats putting aside the usual support your local team, faux nationalism stuff that is sometimes proffered as a reason to support an irish team. These arguments have merit too but, to me, its more simple than that. If you like soccer, you will take in as much as you can.

Good point. I was offered a ticket to the Deportivo game a few years at Lansdowne, and turned it down because I didn't consider myself a Shels fan, or a Depor one of that matter, and didn't want to take the ticket away from a real fan.

[finnpark]

Some rubbish on here. Drogheda drew with Kiev in Kiev and Arsenal did the same. The standard in Europe is very high.

I hope Fahy stays at Pats. If he leaves Pats should get at least €5M for him I suspect. Like how much did Voronin and Pantellic and these boys transfer for?

[Supreme feet]

Bohemian1980, I'm not going to debate with anyone who resorts to personal insults.

My main convictions on this issue are illustrated in the above post. If you disagree with them, try to articulate yours with some kind of sense and objectivity and without the name-calling.

[Bohemian1890]

I realised my mistake, edited the original post.

Look, the EL hasn't produced an Irish player for a competitive international since the early '80s. On the evidence of tonight, against moderate opposition, in a footballing climate where teams from badly-funded and obscure leagues (like BATE and Anorthosis) are getting good results across Europe, what the EL is offering us isn't good enough. Throughout the last 20 years (our international team's most successful period), players from the Championship and Premiership, with the odd player from further afield, have dominated the selection. Do you think that a player from the EL could improve the Irish side now, when the difference in standard is probably more profound than ever?

And don't call me a liar either. I said that the likes of Guy, Fitzpatrick and Rogers are limited. They are, in my opinion. Fahey is clearly too good for the EL, but like Houlihan before him, he will have to move to realise his potential. Just like Conor Sinnott will probably have to leave Youths to realise his.

The Premiership is a better standard than the Eircom League. Are you going to argue with that, or call me a liar for saying so?
Where did i say that the Premiership is not a better standard than LOI??
That's because players are not being given the chance,just look at Doyle,Murphy,Delaney Long all players who play for Ireland where did they get their football education??

We knocked out BATE,it is the luck of the draw.pats getting a German side where BATE got a poor Anderlecht,Pats beat Elfsborg who knocked out Hibs,Does AOB even get his game for them??


As i said,you are all over the place.Stop trying to dig yourself out of a hole its:o.

[finnpark]

His performance today was superb, but its not the first time he has produced this, I hope that someone was there from the Ireland setup, he has to be involved.

I think Tardelli was there to see him. It would be great if Kelleher put a 2-3 year plan in place to build a team thats even better and that would qualify more easily for the UEFA or even CL group stages. Its important to get another good year next year to increase the coefficient points.

[blackholesun]

Ive only watched a few minutes from both games so cant comment on how well he did, but if Fahey did so well against Hertha over the two legs, lets wait and see if any German club, especially one weaker than Hertha comes in for him. They should be able to pick him up for a few 100K, good buy at that price if hes as good as some people think!

bhs

[Saint_Charlie]

Ive only watched a few minutes from both games so cant comment on how well he did, but if Fahey did so well against Hertha over the two legs, lets wait and see if any German club, especially one weaker than Hertha comes in for him. They should be able to pick him up for a few 100K, good buy at that price if hes as good as some people think!

bhs

He has 2 years left on his contract after this season. I hope we only let him go for big money.

[Bohemian1890]

Bohemian1980, I'm not going to debate with anyone who resorts to personal insults.

My main convictions on this issue are illustrated in the above post. If you disagree with them, try to articulate yours with some kind of sense and objectivity and without the name-calling.
Easily offended,very fragile mind.:p

Just remember what your trying to say,and dont try and make out,that i was saying stupid things when it was you:);)

[charliesboots]

Ive only watched a few minutes from both games so cant comment on how well he did, but if Fahey did so well against Hertha over the two legs, lets wait and see if any German club, especially one weaker than Hertha comes in for him. They should be able to pick him up for a few 100K, good buy at that price if hes as good as some people think!

bhs

Pats have already turned down close to half a million for him.

Really no point putting eircom league players in the Ireland section because you just get the usual arguments for the usual suspects.

Fahey is easily good enough to be in the Irish B squad IMO.

And just to pick YoungIrish up on one thing, he didn't fail at Arsenal. He didn't like living in London so Aston Villa paid £250,000 for a 17 year old nearly 8 years ago. He got homesick at Villa and came home with a year left on his contract.

[Fergie's Son]

You can never use money to judge a player,every real football fan can tell you that.I could list 10 players if you want me to?? who cost 5 million or more,and earned thousands a week,and i dont know what happened to them.Do you want me to name them??

Sure you can. We use money to value people all the time. We call it wages. Forget transfer amounts and focus on what someone is willing to pay a player week in and week out. Clearly there are enough professionals in the game that don't deem Fahey to be worth significant wages.

Perhaps they are not "real" football fans but they probably know a thing or two about the game. Enough of them don't rate him. That might change. I hope it does but until it does I highly doubt that he is good enough for the Irish starting XI.

[Dodge]

Clearly there are enough professionals in the game that don't deem Fahey to be worth significant wages.


Doesn't need enough of them. Just needs one


Pats have already turned down close to half a million for him

[Fergie's Son]

And lastly, you seem to have a very condescending attitude to anyone who disagrees with you. Going to EI games doesn't make you a "true" football fan or even any more knowledgeable about football than anyone else. It just makes you someone who enjoys going to the Eircom League...and that's it.

[Fergie's Son]

Doesn't need enough of them. Just needs one

One he hasn't yet gotten. If he has the quality that people believe he has then I hope he gets his move. For his own sake so he can maximize the economic return on his talen. Until he does, I don't think he warrants a spot on the international team.

[Dodge]

I'm consistently on record as saying he doesn't merit a place in the Irish squad but some English championship teams do think he's worthy of a place in their side. To say he doesn't deserve a call up because of the league he plays in is ridiculous (whether its EPL, LOI, MLS or La Liga)

Judge the player on his own merits

[Fergie's Son]

I'm consistently on record as saying he doesn't merit a place in the Irish squad but some English championship teams do think he's worthy of a place in their side. To say he doesn't deserve a call up because of the league he plays in is ridiculous (whether its EPL, LOI, MLS or La Liga)

Judge the player on his own merits

I'm not sure we have that luxury though. Given the finite amount of time an international manager has to spend with his players he needs to have some benchmarks or floors if you will. One of them, most likely, is that a player is playing in a high level league. The fact is, the EL is not such a league.

[Dodge]

I'm not sure we have that luxury though. Given the finite amount of time an international manager has to spend with his players he needs to have some benchmarks or floors if you will. One of them, most likely, is that a player is playing in a high level league. The fact is, the EL is not such a league.
Isn't that what friendlies and B internationals are for? Enough ****ehawks have earned caps in the past 3/4 years, most of them far inferior to Fahey (or Dempsey for that matter)

[tetsujin1979]

yes it does, it makes you much more of a proper fan than someone who can't be arsed to get off their barstool, someone mentioned it previously in this thread that if you love football you should always want to go to games and thus i dont consider someone who doesnt go to regular games to be a proper fan
no it doesn't. plenty of people can't make it to games, or don't want to see the teams on offer. doesn't make them any less of a football fan

it makes oyu more knowledgeable in the sense that you make your own opinons on the game, you don't just agree/disagree with what the pundit has said
attitudes like that are what stop people (including me) from attending more eL games.

[Colbert Report]

What are his weekly wages right now? What does the average player make playing in League 1 over in England? About the same?

[Dodge]

no it doesn't. plenty of people can't make it to games, or don't want to see the teams on offer. doesn't make them any less of a football fan
Yes it does. Watching football on TV is the equivalent of a **** compared to the porn of live football (to paraphrase a great quote from a previous thread) ;)


attitudes like that are what stop people (including me) from attending more eL games.
Excuses. The opinions of one or two people on the internet stop you from going to games? Some of you people actually belive that fans of Irish teams sit/stand around at games and talk about those who aren't there?

You don't want to go to games. Fine, I've no problem with that. Don't start trying to use the people who do go to games as the reason why.

[Fergie's Son]

yes it does, it makes you much more of a proper fan than someone who can't be arsed to get off their barstool, someone mentioned it previously in this thread that if you love football you should always want to go to games and thus i dont consider someone who doesnt go to regular games to be a proper fan

it makes oyu more knowledgeable in the sense that you make your own opinons on the game, you don't just agree/disagree with what the pundit has said

No, it doesn't. In your opinion it does but that's just that, your opinion. I doubt you are any more knowledgeable on football and tactics (other than knowledge of your EI team) then someone who watches it on TV or goes to PL games.

[Fergie's Son]

Yes it does. Watching football on TV is the equivalent of a **** compared to the porn of live football (to paraphrase a great quote from a previous thread) ;)


No it isn't. Often you can get a much better view and indeed understanding of a game via the better view from TV. I've been to enough live games to be confident in saying that.

[charliesboots]

No it isn't. Often you can get a much better view and indeed understanding of a game via the better view from TV. I've been to enough live games to be confident in saying that.

That's an incredible statement to make. TV cameras follow the ball that's all. If you're at a game you can see the whole pitch any time you want.

I film games for coaches and the only angle they're interested in is the "as zoomed out as possible" angle.

Totally off topic too btw.

Fahey for Ireland...ole ole ole

[gaffer 2008]

No it isn't. Often you can get a much better view and indeed understanding of a game via the better view from TV. I've been to enough live games to be confident in saying that.

That was an incredible statement to make...Everybody knows if you want to study the game properly the only way to do it is to be there in the flesh.

Why do you think managers go to games to watch rival teams rather than watch it on the TV.

[Beavis]

then you said this
Your a mess lad,make up your mind.





what a tool.

Aside from crimes against the english language, surely Bohemian1890 is guilty of aggressive behaviour, or, certainly as guilty as youngirish was?
Or is it that his opinion coincides with that of the mod(s), and restraint is only applicable to those who dare disagree ? :rolleyes:


Fahey was quality again today and stands out every time I see him, worth a shout for an Ireland friendly sqaud.

[Patrick Dunne]

Fahey has the ability, but needs the proper structures and coaching to develop his talent.

A move to Brentford or Peterborogh, away from the EPL*, is the way forward for him.

(* Eire Pub League)

[Dodge]

Aside from crimes against the english language, surely Bohemian1890 is guilty of aggressive behaviour, or, certainly as guilty as youngirish was?
Or is it that his opinion coincides with that of the mod(s), and restraint is only applicable to those who dare disagree ? :rolleyes:


Fahey was quality again today and stands out every time I see him, worth a shout for an Ireland friendly sqaud.
Report the posts.

For the record. I agree with you but I never read anything he posts so didn't notice it

[Fergie's Son]

That was an incredible statement to make...Everybody knows if you want to study the game properly the only way to do it is to be there in the flesh.

Why do you think managers go to games to watch rival teams rather than watch it on the TV.

Going to a few EI matches does not make you more qualified than someone who watches a lot of PL games on TV. Sorry, it doesn't. A professional whose job it is to coach and manage teams sees, literally, hundreds of games per year (competitive, training etc.). Going to a handful of EL games doesn't mean much of anything other than that you're a fan the EL. It does not equate you with a professional or give you any significantly greater depth of knowledge of the game.

[gaffer 2008]

Going to a few EI matches does not make you more qualified than someone who watches a lot of PL games on TV. Sorry, it doesn't. A professional whose job it is to coach and manage teams sees, literally, hundreds of games per year (competitive, training etc.). Going to a handful of EL games doesn't mean much of anything other than that you're a fan the EL. It does not equate you with a professional or give you any significantly greater depth of knowledge of the game.

Just for your info im a Uefa A liscence coach who goes to on average at least 5 games a week at all ages and levels. As well as at least one LOI game a week. So unfortunately unlike others i dont have to rely on Andy Gray to eduacate me about football.

[gaffer 2008]

in my experience people who watch the games live on tv have a lesser understanding of the game because they can see players movement,team shape etc when the ball is up the other end of the pitch. you just dont get that on tv. So people who sit in the stands have a better opinion on the game than armchair supporters.

[Dodge]

No it isn't. Often you can get a much better view and indeed understanding of a game via the better view from TV. I've been to enough live games to be confident in saying that.

Sweet jesus...

I know all I need to do about this poster now

[Bohemian1890]

More players from the Premiership played in Euro 2008 than any other league. Despite England and Ireland not qualifying. Think that says it all.



That is not true,i am 99% certain that the most players from Euro 2008,were in fact playing in the German Bundesliga.

[Bohemian1890]

And lastly, you seem to have a very condescending attitude to anyone who disagrees with you. Going to EI games doesn't make you a "true" football fan or even any more knowledgeable about football than anyone else. It just makes you someone who enjoys going to the Eircom League...and that's it.
Maybe not in your eyes,but that is called a footballer supporter people who pay to see football,are true fans.

No matter how loud you shout at the tv,the players cant hear you.

Listen fergie's son,you think it comes down to how much a player earns:o,enough said you know sfa about football.

[Dodge]

http://www.thebesteleven.com/2008/06/club-breakdown-for-euro-2008-squads.html

Bundesliga had most players in Euro 2008. INterestingly enough. 3 from Hertha Berlin and 2 from Elfsborg

[Bohemian1890]

yes it does, it makes you much more of a proper fan than someone who can't be arsed to get off their barstool, someone mentioned it previously in this thread that if you love football you should always want to go to games and thus i dont consider someone who doesnt go to regular games to be a proper fan

it makes oyu more knowledgeable in the sense that you make your own opinons on the game, you don't just agree/disagree with what the pundit has said

Great post:)

[soccerc]

Sweet mother of f c u k.

the number of clueless ar se holes that inhabit this tiny space of the interweb is astonishing.


From bhs to fergies son and most in between, get a f c u k ing life or at least undertsand the fundamentals of the game you profess to know so much about from the barstool.

[Bohemian1890]

Aside from crimes against the english language, surely Bohemian1890 is guilty of aggressive behaviour, or, certainly as guilty as youngirish was?
Or is it that his opinion coincides with that of the mod(s), and restraint is only applicable to those who dare disagree ? :rolleyes:


Fahey was quality again today and stands out every time I see him, worth a shout for an Ireland friendly sqaud.



For the record he accused me of saying something i didn't say,so of course i was angry about that youngirish,was extremely volatile for no reason.

I was not happy,being accused of saying something i didn't say.

If you had bothered,to read the posts you would have seen that.

Sorry,if i caused you distress at all:rolleyes:.

[charliesboots]

It a crime to not like English football:eek:Since when??


For the record he accused me of saying something i didn't say,so of course i was angry about that youngirish was extremely volatile for no reason.

I was not happy,being accused of saying something i didn't say.

If you had bothered to read the posts you would have seen that.

Sorry if i caused you distress at all:rolleyes:.

oh dear!

[Boh_So_Good]

Problem is he is simply not BRITISH enough to play for OIRLAND.

Perhaps if he cleaned out the women's jacks at Woking FC every two months then the West Brits on here and the Oirish media might consider him worthy of wearin' da green...

[SkStu]

yes it does, it makes you much more of a proper fan than someone who can't be arsed to get off their barstool, someone mentioned it previously in this thread that if you love football you should always want to go to games and thus i dont consider someone who doesnt go to regular games to be a proper fan

it makes oyu more knowledgeable in the sense that you make your own opinons on the game, you don't just agree/disagree with what the pundit has said

it was me that stated that earlier and its the truth. I agree with everything you state in that post.

[Gypsy1890]

In my opinion Fahey is easily good enough to get in to the Ireland B squad. He has more skill and talent than a lot of the players who have been chosen to represent this country at full international level, never mind B squads.

Some of the posts by the Plastics in this thread are ridiculous; saying that a player is not good enough for at least a B international because of the league he plays in? A player should be judged on his ability and not the league he plays in.

I believe the following clip proves that if you have the talent, and ability, you are good enough for international football:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_slBbkJMPd0 :cool:


Aside from crimes against the english language, surely Bohemian1890 is guilty of aggressive behaviour, or, certainly as guilty as youngirish was?
Or is it that his opinion coincides with that of the mod(s), and restraint is only applicable to those who dare disagree ? :rolleyes:


Fahey was quality again today and stands out every time I see him, worth a shout for an Ireland friendly sqaud. Read what you post before you try and question anyone's grammar. Particularly when/how to use commas, capitals and question marks. :ball:

[Colbert Report]

If this Fahey guy is so good then why isn't he playing for a team in England that will pay him much more money than he can earn playing in Ireland?

[ifk101]

If this Fahey guy is so good then why isn't he playing for a team in England that will pay him much more money than he can earn playing in Ireland?

That's the problem isn't. Unfortunately we have a population that think they know something about the game but are actually the victims of marketing. It is beyond the fathoms of their thought that decent footballers exist outside the leagues of the "mainland". If you're not plying your trade on the mainland, you're obviously not good enough.

The fact of the matter is that Keith Fahey is deserving of a call-up to that B squad at least. You can argue that he is not playing in a team or a league filled with internationals - and that's fair enough. However you're fooling yourselves into believing that reserve team football is better preparation for the international side than playing competitive matches week in, week out.

We can all marvel at the brillance of the English Premiership but how many Irish players are regular starters for the teams in this league? And how many players do we usually select for the international squad get-togethers? It's been pointed out here by fans of the English game that our playing resources are limited. So what's the problem in giving Keith Fahey a chance to prove what he can do? Why are posters here "afraid" of giving the lad the chance to play international football? What's the harm in giving him a run-out - if he's not good enough, we move on. If he is - great. Surely this is a win-win situation for everybody?

[paul_oshea]

YI was quick to be banned , Bohemian has been calling people tools etc....how come he hasn't been banned?

Beavis well said btw, two very valid points.

[Dodge]

YI was quick to be banned , Bohemian has been calling people tools etc....how come he hasn't been banned?


Because he didn't do it three times. Anymore queries can be posted in support

[paul_oshea]

Yes it does. Watching football on TV is the equivalent of a **** compared to the porn of live football (to paraphrase a great quote from a previous thread) ;)


Excuses. The opinions of one or two people on the internet stop you from going to games? Some of you people actually belive that fans of Irish teams sit/stand around at games and talk about those who aren't there?

You don't want to go to games. Fine, I've no problem with that. Don't start trying to use the people who do go to games as the reason why.


When I show an interest in EL matches and teams, and say something someone doesn't like im told "you're not a real football fan, football fans understand", "your're a G.A.A fan, you wouldn't understand" "real football fans understand" etc etc, yet then you come out with this double standard when tets makes a valid point. Do you honestly think people will go support clubs or go to matches if ye "in the clique" patronisingly make snide remarks and look down on those that don't go? Seriouslly, and don't come back with the usual crap of back up with points, its been said, I remember it, I dont have time to sit around and trawl through posts to find it. Argue the point or don't reply.

Finally a little analogy, I don't go to club gaa games at home, (i go watch the local junior soccer club though ) because I don't particularly like the clique and attitude of those that attend and play the game. WHy would I go somewhere I don't like the people, for the same reason that I wouldn't like the EL supporters. Dodge do you go to bars where you don't like the people that frequent them? I know I don't. BTW i have gone to a good few EL games and a fair few european matches when I lived in Dublin, but I could see it from others I know.

[third policeman]

He was the best player on the pitch and is certainy worth a run out in the B squad. At this stage his ability to perform at international level is untested. But there are numerous players in the B and Full squads who are proven to be not good enough. It would also be a boost to the EL and an encouragement to other players that if they perform well they will get opportunities.

[Saint_Charlie]

That's the problem isn't. Unfortunately we have a population that think they know something about the game but are actually the victims of marketing. It is beyond the fathoms of their thought that decent footballers exist outside the leagues of the "mainland". If you're not plying your trade on the mainland, you're obviously not good enough.

The fact of the matter is that Keith Fahey is deserving of a call-up to that B squad at least. You can argue that he is not playing in a team or a league filled with internationals - and that's fair enough. However you're fooling yourselves into believing that reserve team football is better preparation for the international side than playing competitive matches week in, week out.

We can all marvel at the brillance of the English Premiership but how many Irish players are regular starters for the teams in this league? And how many players do we usually select for the international squad get-togethers? It's been pointed out here by fans of the English game that our playing resources are limited. So what's the problem in giving Keith Fahey a chance to prove what he can do? Why are posters here "afraid" of giving the lad the chance to play international football? What's the harm in giving him a run-out - if he's not good enough, we move on. If he is - great. Surely this is a win-win situation for everybody?

Excellent post.

I understand Fats isn’t ready to be playing against the likes of Italy in a World cup qualifier but I really don’t see why he’s not given a chance in friendly matches. Isn’t that what there for? The established players only play half-hearted in most of them anyway. Keith has risen to any challenge he’s been faced with so far. I’m sure he’d rise to playing for Ireland.

The only thing is, if he did get called up, he’d no doubt be going to England soon thereafter. :(

[disabledrog]

Bennetts first game for southampton was a disaster and he was hauled off at half time, dont think he played much for them after dat and it was them who didnt extend his loan.
he is now playing in league two