Keith Fahey

[paul_oshea]

To be honest, the term barstooler is mostly applied to the type of person who watches Man Utd/Liverpool on TV, believes that they are an avid Man Utd/Liverpool fan and looks down on or mocks a LOI fan despite the fact that the have never even experienced a LOI game

Yes which is what Ive called what LOI fans have before, inverted snobbery.

[paul_oshea]

I had a look at some of the LOI games on RTE, time and space are in short supply.
Considering the gulf in resources, the Championship is not that much better.
The LOI clubs that do spend a bit and achieve a very decent standard, do so on borrowed money, then it falls down when it comes time to pay the bills.

It's funny that as if by some mysterious force the English commentator can manage to pronounce an R, but only when they see a H and a Y -- Farhee

You know the jonathan Woss problem, a lot of english people grow up not learning how to pronounce R correctly. Seriouslly, next time yer chatting to one(well southerners anyway) ask them to say "room" it has an uncanny resemblence to the word "womb", its the same with "gh" or "ath", which is pronounced "uf" and "af" respectively.

[topia]

Yes which is what Ive called what LOI fans have before, inverted snobbery.


To be honest i doubt anyone cares what you call it, LOI fans in general have a sense of pride in their team and dont particularly like to be slagged by someone who has never even been yet feels the need to comment, its hardly a very offensive term anyway.

[youngirish]

To be honest, the term barstooler is mostly applied to the type of person who watches Man Utd/Liverpool on TV, believes that they are an avid Man Utd/Liverpool fan and looks down on or mocks a LOI fan despite the fact that the have never even experienced a LOI game
Or alternatively when someone disagrees with the current LOI clique party line as is the case for me as I don't support any English club and have been to both Tolka Park and Dalymount a number of times in the past even if it hasn't been for a long time now.

I only watch English games on television if potential or actual Irish International players are playing.

[topia]

Or alternatively when someone disagrees with the current LOI clique party line as is the case for me as I don't support any English club and have been to both Tolka Park and Dalymount a number of times in the past even if it hasn't been for a long time now.

I only watch English games on television if potential or actual Irish International players are playing.


although you dont support an english team you still more or less compared the LOI to sunday league teams despite admitting that you havent been in a long time

[Dodge]

Yes which is what Ive called what LOI fans have before, inverted snobbery.

Its not inverted.

[paul_oshea]

Its not inverted.

It is, when viewed from the outside ;)

[NeilMcD]

Where you watch your football whether that be an LOI ground or a barstool or an English Premiership ground or your couch does not impact on your knowledge of football etc. What it does do is it impacts on your knowledge of what it is like to support a team. Whether that is important while discussing the merits of a footballer is doubtfull.

[joema]

Where you watch your football whether that be an LOI ground or a barstool or an English Premiership ground or your couch does not impact on your knowledge of football etc.

Are you having a laugh?

There is a significant difference in watching a match on the telly and being at the actual ground.

[paul_oshea]

Where you watch your football whether that be an LOI ground or a barstool or an English Premiership ground or your couch does not impact on your knowledge of football etc. What it does do is it impacts on your knowledge of what it is like to support a team. Whether that is important while discussing the merits of a footballer is doubtfull.

well said that man, i attend about 10 matches a year over here(prem and 1st division), different teams, different levels, and I would actually say seeing this level you would be more informed of the quality of a player than watching a LOI player, simply because if thats all you have seen you definitely don't know what level is required for anything higher than that.....especially international.

[NeilMcD]

Are you having a laugh?

There is a significant difference in watching a match on the telly and being at the actual ground.

Only if you have the football brains in the first place. I have met loads of people who go to games and do not have a clue and then you have say somebody like Stuttgart88 who does not go to games regularly anymore or so he has said in this thread so far and he has a great knowledge of the tactics of the game. Finally I do go to games and I do attend Dalymount supporting Bohs so I am not anti LOI. I am all for people supporting their local team and going to the game

[NeilMcD]

[QUOTE=paul_oshea;1156562]well said that man, i attend about 10 matches a year over here(prem and 1st division), different teams, different levels, and I would actually say seeing this level you would be more informed of the quality of a player than watching a LOI player, simply because if thats all you have seen you definitely don't know what level is required for anything higher than that.....especially international.[/QUOT

Paul LOI fans do not live in another planet you know. There are many who go to LOI grounds and attend Premiership games and Ireland games and/or Championship games.

[irishultra]

well said that man, i attend about 10 matches a year over here(prem and 1st division), different teams, different levels, and I would actually say seeing this level you would be more informed of the quality of a player than watching a LOI player, simply because if thats all you have seen you definitely don't know what level is required for anything higher than that.....especially international.

Sorry but that is complete bull**** imo.

[paul_oshea]

Sorry but that is complete bull**** imo.

sorry though its not,do you attend LOI games only? Why then do LOI fans get it wrong most of the time with players they tip to be the next big thing, and say he should be called up or whatever and then if he steps across the water or plays in a meaningless international game and doesn't impress? Its like the local junior clubs saying that lads class he could play LOI, well if he could he probably would be. If they only see a certain level and a fella stands out, its just a general presumption that works right to the top, not just LOI fans.

[boovidge]

Well the LOI fans' enthusiasm for Fahey doesn't seem to have been misplaced judging by his performances so far for a top Championship side.

[Paddy Garcia]

The first few pages of this thread are hilarious to read now. "He's crap and will be back at pats by the end of the season" "not up to championship level" - by barstoolers who had never even seen him play. Us League of Ireland fans aren't delusional you know... When I saw Fahey play I knew he was absolute quality.


If you take the likes of YoungIrish seriously, then frankly you deserve all thats coming to you. Fahey has done fantastic and is a great prospect.

Unfortunately the term barstooler is the last resort of the inferior seeking superior status to the rest of the population. I truly can't think of a sadder insult to be reduced to using - sadly by people who can only define themselves by "not being a barstooler". Sorry - but get a life.

[paul_oshea]

Well the LOI fans' enthusiasm for Fahey doesn't seem to have been misplaced judging by his performances so far for a top Championship side.

of course fair play to him, and id love to see him do well. He did control the game in germany from what I saw on TV.

[paul_oshea]

If you take the likes of YoungIrish seriously, then frankly you deserve all thats coming to you. Fahey has done fantastic and is a great prospect.

Unfortunately the term barstooler is the last resort of the inferior seeking superior status to the rest of the population. I truly can't think of a sadder insult to be reduced to using - sadly by people who can only define themselves by "not being a barstooler". Sorry - but get a life.

exactly inverted snobbery by a minority. Its funny its very backward thinking, actually.

[eirebhoy]

Are you having a laugh?

There is a significant difference in watching a match on the telly and being at the actual ground.
I don't see why unless you want to watch a specific player closely and what he's doing when the ball is 40 yards away from him. What important things are you missing on TV that you see live? At the end of the day your eyes can only see so much. If you're watching something off the view of a TV camera you're missing what the TV camera is showing. I just don't get this difference between watching live and on TV.

Anyway, when I'm watching Ireland or Celtic. Live or on TV. I just watch that team on and off the ball. Very rarely will I have a clue how well an opposing player is doing unless someone brings it to my attention during the game. I don't have a problem keeping track of the off the ball movements watching on TV. I don't find myself thinking "where did he come from".

I can't remember the last time I saw a match live that I actually had as good a view as you'd get on TV. I've mainly been behind the goals. Behind the goal with a bit of height is good but there's not much height in the stadiums in the LOI.

[Stuttgart88]

There are some things you miss on TV that you see live. There are some things you miss live that you see on TV.

If I wanted to scout a player I'd watch him live given the chance. It doesn't mean what I've seen of him on TV isn't important though.

[NeilMcD]

Scouts are usually given great seats though. I can see where Eirebhoy is coming from. I go to many Ireland games and sometims I am ****ed at them and we are in rubbish seats, but as Stutts says, there are times I have seen thins that nobody on TV could have seen but in Bari, I barely knew why the Italian got sent off.

[topia]

sorry though its not,do you attend LOI games only? Why then do LOI fans get it wrong most of the time with players they tip to be the next big thing, and say he should be called up or whatever and then if he steps across the water or plays in a meaningless international game and doesn't impress? Its like the local junior clubs saying that lads class he could play LOI, well if he could he probably would be. If they only see a certain level and a fella stands out, its just a general presumption that works right to the top, not just LOI fans.

so you think that the majority of LOI fans dont watch any other football at all so and so they have no right to comment on the ability of a LOI player because they have never seen matches at any other level???

[paul_oshea]

so you think that the majority of LOI fans dont watch any other football at all so and so they have no right to comment on the ability of a LOI player because they have never seen matches at any other level???

No, not saying that , as I mentioned when replying to Neil. A lot are Ireland fans and have "second" teams elsewhere around the world. How often do they see then thats down to the individual I spose.

[ifk101]

sorry though its not,do you attend LOI games only? Why then do LOI fans get it wrong most of the time with players they tip to be the next big thing, and say he should be called up or whatever and then if he steps across the water or plays in a meaningless international game and doesn't impress? Its like the local junior clubs saying that lads class he could play LOI, well if he could he probably would be. If they only see a certain level and a fella stands out, its just a general presumption that works right to the top, not just LOI fans.

paul_oshea;

How many times have non-LOI fans gotten it wrong with tipping players to be the next big thing? ;) Or are you repeating an invalid point made by another poster because it sounds right? Remember those original calls for Fahey to be called-up were for the B squad - hardly invalid calls in hindsight.

What you are also forgetting is that for all those LOI players that have moved across the water, they have been scouted by professionals, that are employed by professional clubs, that obviously saw something in each and every player to convince them that they had something to offer and could play in their British leagues.

[youngirish]

paul_oshea;

How many times have non-LOI fans gotten it wrong with tipping players to be the next big thing? ;) Or are you repeating an invalid point made by another poster because it sounds right? Remember those original calls for Fahey to be called-up were for the B squad - hardly invalid calls in hindsight.

What you are also forgetting is that for all those LOI players that have moved across the water, they have been scouted by professionals, that are employed by professional clubs, that obviously saw something in each and every player to convince them that they had something to offer and could play in their British leagues.

Another one who doesn't quite grasp this universal concept called logic.

How in any reasonable persons mind can the fact that LOI fans consistently overestimating the ability of (their) players not be at the very crux of the argument that they are better informed (in many of their own words) than the non LOI fans on here regarding football in general because they attend games rather than watching them on TV? Surely someone better informed would make on average better calls regarding player's abilites than another person not so well informed? How can you make such a claim without a sarcastic smiley face at the end of your post? Should we just take it as gospel then that they are better informed even though the available evidence doesn't back up their claim in any way whatsoever?

Also why are you referring to some of the original calls for Fahey to be in the B squad to back up your argument? For a start this is not relevant because this is a general point that doesn't just apply to Fahey and secondly and perhaps most importantly its also blatantly not true as some posters were suggesting he get a senior call up?

Finally just because someone pays a tiny transfer fee (in relative terms) to try a player out at their club doesn't mean they are 100% certain they are a world beater. Coppell bought Bennett and Mooney yet has never given them a run in the team. They take risks and the scouts get it wrong fairly regularly (more often than not imo) otherwise there would be no poor players getting transfers. Anyway even if a player does make it into the first team in the Championship initially that doesn't mean in the long term his move turned out to be a successful one - O'Callaghan and O'Donovan spring to mind on this occasion so your final point is actually invalid to reference a term you used earlier.

[NeilMcD]

There is no agreed consensus amongst LOI fans like there is not an agreed consensus amongst Ireland fans or Premier League fans. They do not speak as one.

[Dodge]

There is no agreed consensus amongst LOI fans like there is not an agreed consensus amongst Ireland fans or Premier League fans. They do not speak as one.

Sick to my eyeteeth trying to explain this to people. I guarentee that pos and youngirish can't find a single post from me claiming that any LOI footballer (including fahey) should've been called into the Irish senior squad. I'd guess that at most 10-12 LOI fans have said he was worthy of a call up, and even less for all other players. If they took the blinkers off they'd find plenty of posts criticising the likes of mooney, bennett and the rest. And unlike their worthless opinions, these people have actually seen them play

[youngirish]

Sick to my eyeteeth trying to explain this to people. I guarentee that pos and youngirish can't find a single post from me claiming that any LOI footballer (including fahey) should've been called into the Irish senior squad. I'd guess that at most 10-12 LOI fans have said he was worthy of a call up, and even less for all other players. If they took the blinkers off they'd find plenty of posts criticising the likes of mooney, bennett and the rest. And unlike their worthless opinions, these people have actually seen them play

10-12 is a sizeable number by any stretch. I never claimed everyone stated they should get senior call ups or they were brilliant however some of the LOI crowd certainly did.

My opinion on player's potential in hindsight has been far more reliable than most on here (including yours by a distance) though again ignore the evidence if it doesn't lead to the answer your looking for.

Anyway again I have to go. I have work to do.

[ifk101]

10-12 is a sizeable number by any stretch. I never claimed everyone stated they should get senior call ups or they were brilliant however I'm sure

My opinion on player's potential in hindsight has been far more reliable than most on here (including yours by a distance) though again ignore the evidence if it doesn't lead to the answer your looking for.

So the problem is that you feel like your opinion (the opinion of Mystic Meg with balls) is not getting the respect it deserves?

[Dodge]

My opinion on player's potential in hindsight has been far more reliable than most on here (including yours by a distance) though again ignore the evidence if it doesn't lead to the answer your looking for.


Provide the evidence so. I can't think of a single player I've been wrong on tbh

Oh and there are a couple of hundred regular LOI posters on here. 10-12 is no more than 5%, and very likely less

[paul_oshea]

Sick to my eyeteeth trying to explain this to people. I guarentee that pos and youngirish can't find a single post from me claiming that any LOI footballer (including fahey) should've been called into the Irish senior squad. I'd guess that at most 10-12 LOI fans have said he was worthy of a call up, and even less for all other players. If they took the blinkers off they'd find plenty of posts criticising the likes of mooney, bennett and the rest. And unlike their worthless opinions, these people have actually seen them play

Dodge I have never seen a post from you saying so, where did i ever say that I had?

[paul_oshea]

paul_oshea;

How many times have non-LOI fans gotten it wrong with tipping players to be the next big thing? ;) Or are you repeating an invalid point made by another poster because it sounds right? Remember those original calls for Fahey to be called-up were for the B squad - hardly invalid calls in hindsight.

What you are also forgetting is that for all those LOI players that have moved across the water, they have been scouted by professionals, that are employed by professional clubs, that obviously saw something in each and every player to convince them that they had something to offer and could play in their British leagues.

I think its dwained given the amount of inaccurate predictions to be fair.

Second point....or that its a risk taken for very little money, looks good, lets bring him over, give him a chance, if it doesn't work out ah well, its no big money(which has happened a bit I think because of what happened with Long and Doyle more so at Reading). However if it does like in kevin doyles case(and looking to be keith faheys too) then its definitely a gamble worth taking. Risks are worth taking for small money if they pay off and you make 500% on the risk :) That's if you can afford it of course ;)

Again, Ill stress I love to see players from LOI doing well, whether its in the LOI, LOI in Europe, Uk or Europe.

[Dodge]

Dodge I have never seen a post from you saying so, where did i ever say that I had?

You didn't. I was arguing with the whole LOI fans v the world rubbish. Some people think Fahey deserved a call up (some of them were LOI fans), some people didn't think he deserved a call up (some of them were LOI fans)

Thats the point

[paul_oshea]

You didn't. I was arguing with the whole LOI fans v the world rubbish. Some people think Fahey deserved a call up (some of them were LOI fans), some people didn't think he deserved a call up (some of them were LOI fans)

Thats the point

No one ever mentioned the LOI v The World, Dodge ;) Is that how you feel though :D

Maybe, then just some are more vocal than others...:D

[Dodge]

No one ever mentioned the LOI v The World, Dodge ;) Is that how you feel though :D


No, thats just how it looks from the outside :p

[Billsthoughts]

I think its dwained given the amount of inaccurate predictions to be fair.

The percentage that have gone over from the league and been successful is probably roughly the same as the percentage who go over as kids and are successful. Pretty low.

[SkStu]

Again, Ill stress I love to see players from LOI doing well, whether its in the LOI, LOI in Europe, Uk or Europe.

well Paul, i thought you had nailed your anti-LOI opinions to the mast but it would appear that i had you wrong...

so what it really is is that you want LOI players to do well but you just dont want LOI fans telling you that we think they'll do well? ;)

thats how i read it.

As for YI, i couldnt be bothered. If we typify whats wrong with the mentality of LOI supporters then he typifies whats wrong with the barstool mentality.

[paul_oshea]

well Paul, i thought you had nailed your anti-LOI opinions to the mast but it would appear that i had you wrong...

so what it really is is that you want LOI players to do well but you just dont want LOI fans telling you that we think they'll do well? ;)

thats how i read it.

As for YI, i couldnt be bothered. If we typify whats wrong with the mentality of LOI supporters then he typifies whats wrong with the barstool mentality.

When did the LOI move out to North America ;)

[SkStu]

im here to coordinate the marketing and rebranding of the LOI World Tour... ;)

[topia]

10-12 is a sizeable number by any stretch. I never claimed everyone stated they should get senior call ups or they were brilliant however some of the LOI crowd certainly did.

My opinion on player's potential in hindsight has been far more reliable than most on here (including yours by a distance) though again ignore the evidence if it doesn't lead to the answer your looking for.

Anyway again I have to go. I have work to do.

correct me if im wrong here but you opinion in judging players potential has been far more reliable than everyone elses? but you dont go to LOI games so your reliable opinion on their potential must just just saying theyll never make it about each one??? good tactic bound to get a good few of them right.

Also i dont know how many people have to say this but ive heard very few LOI fans claiming any player should walk into the senior squad, i have however heard people say whats to be lost by taking a look at the occassional player in friendly squads or times like the 40 man squad. So claiming that lots of LOI fans are always demanding a LOI player be called up is just wrong.

[SkStu]

the last time a LOI player was called up to a senior international squad and played was Glen Crowe against Greece, in Greece and he certainly looked capable of playing at that level without unduly embarassing himself.

To immediately dismiss a players ability and potential to step up to the plate based on where they ply(ed) their trade is an inherently flawed argument. Crowe did well in one game, Byrne wasnt really given a fair shot, Doyle has been brilliant, Long doesnt look out of place. Next up, fingers crossed: Keith Fahey.

[eirebhoy]

the last time a LOI player was called up to a senior international squad and played was Glen Crowe against Greece, in Greece and he certainly looked capable of playing at that level without unduly embarassing himself.
Gamble played in America and did well.

[Dodge]

Gamble was played out of position.

[Stuttgart88]

Jason Byrne didn't embarrass himself in Poland.

He didn't have time to.

[paul_oshea]

Are you suggesting he would have?

[Stuttgart88]

No I'm not

[Sheridan]

As I recall he got another few minutes for Skyreland against Chile or somebody and set up two great chances which his cousin fluffed hopelessly.

[Stuttgart88]

Skyreland oh how very clever & cynical.

[Razors left peg]

As I recall he got another few minutes for Skyreland against Chile or somebody and set up two great chances which his cousin fluffed hopelessly.
yeah your right that cousin of his is useless and Byrne should be picked ahead of him every time

[gustavo]

yeah "your" right that cousin of his is useless and Byrne should be picked ahead of him every time

Well done on putting 2 and 2 together and getting 7