Hull City owners to take majority stake in Dundalk?

[ToberonaTornado]

Btw Oriel, Hoban should get himself a new agent. Just saying

[oriel]

Yes heard it was the agent causing a lot of the sh't stirring in this episode with Hoban.

[Nesta99]

Agents obviously get their cut from players contract terms and transfer fees so may stir for their own benefit, but the player ultimately calls the shots but Its easier to think the agent is the issue rather than than the player and club legend thats is still under contract. Maybe its a bit fickle by me but rarely convinced by players' kissing crests lierally or methphorically.

Dont see how Hoban can say he was told he wasnt wanted at the club if that wasnt the case or is he that naive that he'd believe his agent if he was being an ass - the club could reassure the player problem sorted but were silent on the whole thing with no denial so not so much an agent acting up. Trying for better terms or a contract extension when the club was talking of p/t hybrid and budget cuts wasnt going to fly if that was the aim. It just seems most likely that prior to new ownership his wages were considered too high to keep on the books with club cutting its cloth. Assuming S'OD wasnt trying to offload him either.

New owner, new money and maybe then the agent may now saying put yer money where yer mouth is and prove his player is wanted. The club should hold him to his existing contract and see how things go for an extension in due course. Hoban could show his loyalty and love for the club, a gentlemans agreement with the manager should be as good as a signed contract!! Capitulate and other contracted players may have noses out of joint, pushes up demands from potential signings, it all gets messy and expensive.

Or its all set up for a big Christmas announcement.....

[ToberonaTornado]

Agree with most of that of that Nesta but my opinion is that Hoban's agent was very aware of a takeover at Dundalk ahead and tried to game that fact for his players advantage. That's his job you could say but bluff got called and it looks like they've quickly backed away from their demands.(Hoban and agent)
Would expect him to still be a Dundalk player for '24 on terms agreed

[oriel]

Agents obviously get their cut from players contract terms and transfer fees so may stir for their own benefit, but the player ultimately calls the shots but Its easier to think the agent is the issue rather than than the player and club legend thats is still under contract. Maybe its a bit fickle by me but rarely convinced by players' kissing crests lierally or methphorically.

Dont see how Hoban can say he was told he wasnt wanted at the club if that wasnt the case or is he that naive that he'd believe his agent if he was being an ass - the club could reassure the player problem sorted but were silent on the whole thing with no denial so not so much an agent acting up. Trying for better terms or a contract extension when the club was talking of p/t hybrid and budget cuts wasnt going to fly if that was the aim. It just seems most likely that prior to new ownership his wages were considered too high to keep on the books with club cutting its cloth. Assuming S'OD wasnt trying to offload him either.


.....

To be clear any talk of going p/t - hybrid / cuts, was only ever in scope if StatSports majority stake owners were still in charge come 2024, hence reason it was vital for the takeover to happen, so DFC could plan properly for the season ahead.

Budget will be similar to 2023 now.

[RealJohn91]

Dundalk fans have absolutely no patience,proven time and again.
It's the same around the league. Bohs have 18 players under contract still for next season and going by the reactions of some fans online you'd think we didn’t have enough to field a five a side team. Maddening to witness every year.

[oriel]

Per this link, it seems Ainscough is stepping down from Boston to fully focus on Dundalk in 2024.

https://x.com/jamesrogersie/status/1737763908113358988?s=20

[total hoofball]

Is he assuming CEO responsibilities? I read an article a week or so back he was saying he was assuming the CEO role temporarily before making a decision whether to appoint a CEO, if he is mostly over in Dundalk with feet on the ground rather than remotely in the states just after a takeover you would think it's better for him and the club

[culloty82]

Certainly suggests at least that he plans to be permanently based in Louth.

[oriel]

Is he assuming CEO responsibilities? I read an article a week or so back he was saying he was assuming the CEO role temporarily before making a decision whether to appoint a CEO, if he is mostly over in Dundalk with feet on the ground rather than remotely in the states just after a takeover you would think it's better for him and the club

I think the plan is to keep Martin Connolly in as COO, he is a brother of Andy (fastfix) previous 50% owner SK era and 1/3 with Statsports, also BA wants to hire a commercial manager to be in role as early as Jan, and more office / admin staff, so he seems to be re-vamping things, would imagine if he has all that in place, he will want all to report into him weekly, along with SOD as manager and B Gartland as recruitment / player liasion.

[Louth4sam]

Certainly suggests at least that he plans to be permanently based in Louth.

I think I read that he hoped to be over on average a week out of every month. Maybe this will change now he has no commitments outside of family due to his resignation from the Bolts.

[Buckett]

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/12419443/dundalk-secure-new-investment-dublin-brian-ainscough/

[pateen]

Any figure mentioned?

[mcgonigle]

Any figure mentioned?

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/louth/sport/soccer/james-rogers-dundalk-fcs-off-field-issues-are-as-big-as-the-challenges-on-the-pitch/a259006433.html

At least €750K I hope.....

[2 Year Contract]

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/louth/sport/soccer/james-rogers-dundalk-fcs-off-field-issues-are-as-big-as-the-challenges-on-the-pitch/a259006433.html

At least €750K I hope.....

Wow! That article is pretty grim reading for anyone with Dundalk at heart. I didn’t realise things were so bad off the pitch

[oriel]

The 550K due from UEFA this summer will also help, but yeah was some mess left by StatSports lead group for the 2 seasons of 2022 + 2023. For all the bad p6 did, they left 1.3M or so in the account end of 2021. Then again they wasted part of the 2016 EL group stage and most of 2020 group stage monies.

[pineapple stu]

Wow! That article is pretty grim reading for anyone with Dundalk at heart. I didn’t realise things were so bad off the pitch
Crikey - really reads like the worst of the 00s, doesn't it?

[Another Bohemia]

Crikey - really reads like the worst of the 00s, doesn't it?

Personally I found this part worrying

"The playing staff and the budget for the first-team has been largely unaffected but one of the main areas of strife in recent months has been around claimed European bonuses for last season which, thus far, have gone unpaid. In this case, the lack of a written agreement remains one of the club’s biggest defences but the matter is seemingly not going away with the PFAI having been consulted on the matter and a representative for at least one of the players who believe they are owed understood to be taking legal advice on the subject this week."

There's something dodgy there as I can't imagine players and their agents agreeing to European bonuses and them not being written into the contract. Maybe I'm naive and it's a pretty normal thing to happen in the football world but strikes me as being something like the dual contract situation in Derry back in the early 10's or late 00's

[Yossarian]

I would have thought if there is nothing in writing either in the contract or any other document then the players wouldn’t have any comeback.
Either way, looking for bonuses for last years European “performances” made me laugh.

[nigel-harps1954]

It's almost as if people didn't learn any lessons from previous clubs wildly spending money on their first team instead of investing in club structures.

[Another Bohemia]

I would have thought if there is nothing in writing either in the contract or any other document then the players wouldn’t have any comeback.
Either way, looking for bonuses for last years European “performances” made me laugh.

Well verbal contracts are a thing but it just strikes me as not being the norm in this situation...or any situation really outside of sales between 2 private individuals. Not even sure how you would prove a verbal contract existed in court unless every player had the exact same story, bonus structure etc and had other witnesses to say it was an agreement between both sides etc. Just strikes me as something fishy happening as you would imagine any agent worth his salt would be making sure that all agreed bonuses are written into the contract before signing. Be interesting to see what the PFAI find anyway

[Nesta99]

It's almost as if people didn't learn any lessons from previous clubs wildly spending money on their first team instead of investing in club structures.

Yeah like wild Bill wasnt told that he was ripped off, and all local involvemnet in the club didnt resign in protest, while dignified charcters like Burton among others never rubbed their hands. 250k igning on fee is not normal behaviour even in LoI!

[oriel]

I would have thought if there is nothing in writing either in the contract or any other document then the players wouldn’t have any comeback.
Either way, looking for bonuses for last years European “performances” made me laugh.

Regardless of the heat we were dreadful in Gibraltar, lucky to get away with a draw, then got the 3-1 win at home, but it was 1-1 for a good bit. Enter the Icemen, we were shocking over there in a 3-1 defeat and probably didn't deserve to get a draw at home. Hoban was very poor in 3 of the 4 games too.

Bonus payments indeed, unfortunately its for getting there, not actual games, seems poor form though if agreed and not paid.

[Nesta99]

Performanc related bonuses are to ensure olayers give it all and perform. They didnt! There may have been a bonus for qualifying i'd pull it for being ****/1

[pineapple stu]

Performanc related bonuses are to ensure olayers give it all and perform. They didnt!
they won through a round and earned more money.

Any more analysis than that shouldn't really be relevant.

[2 Year Contract]

Performanc related bonuses are to ensure olayers give it all and perform. They didnt! There may have been a bonus for qualifying i'd pull it for being ****/1

If their performances were sufficient enough to earn the club extra prize money then they should be sufficient enough to be given any bonus that was agreed.

Results are and always will be the only basis to award football bonuses on. Performances are too subjective and would see clubs looking to not award bonuses based on crazy/tight owners definition of what a good performance was or wasn’t

[Hitman]

If their performances were sufficient enough to earn the club extra prize money then they should be sufficient enough to be given any bonus that was agreed.

Results are and always will be the only basis to award football bonuses on. Performances are too subjective and would see clubs looking to not award bonuses based on crazy/tight owners definition of what a good performance was or wasn’t

It didn't do Dundee United any harm.



"Jim McLean was a genius as far as I was concerned," Sturrock once said. "His training was revolutionary and his coaching transformed me. As for his man-management skills? Well, that's another debate."

McLean, after all, withheld his side's £50 entertainment bonus after a 6-1 win over Motherwell a couple of seasons earlier, reasoning that, having scored four times in the opening 17 minutes, they did not do enough thereafter to keep the crowd engaged.

[2 Year Contract]

It didn't do Dundee United any harm.

Different times, smoking a box of fags at halftime and living on a liquid diet of pints didn’t do them any harm back then either :)

[Nesta99]

If their performances were sufficient enough to earn the club extra prize money then they should be sufficient enough to be given any bonus that was agreed.

Results are and always will be the only basis to award football bonuses on. Performances are too subjective and would see clubs looking to not award bonuses based on crazy/tight owners definition of what a good performance was or wasn’t

Or maybe an aggrieved agent is putting spin on a clause, sort of like when the activation of a contract extension clause is disputed, or when accepted could try to add a new release clause. If it were an entire squad that had claims in....doesnt licencing deal with outstanding money to players from a previous season? Or maybe it was a hand shake drawn on a cigarette paper agreement. As for Zahibo coming knocking...well little surprises at Dundalk at the moment.

[ToberonaTornado]

Most of the money Dundalk earned back in the day did go to the players.seems a couple of players not from then thought that the same "loose" contract from that era applied to them when it didn't.

More annoying for me in the circumstances is that the club didn't pay local businesses invoices when they were due.
Hopefully Ainscough etc is now on top of that issue.

Can see somewhat why the former coo got his marching orders now.

Don't pi*s off your local suppliers while saying you're a community club.

[Nesta99]

Most of the money Dundalk earned back in the day did go to the players.seems a couple of players not from then thought that the same "loose" contract from that era applied to them when it didn't.

More annoying for me in the circumstances is that the club didn't pay local businesses invoices when they were due.
Hopefully Ainscough etc is now on top of that issue.

Can see somewhat why the former coo got his marching orders now.

Don't pi*s off your local suppliers while saying you're a community club.

You may have just mentioned the war!

[2 Year Contract]

Ainscough bored of Dundalk and looking to sell up already it seems. Club reportedly due to post a deficit of €1.2m in their 2023 accounts

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/louth/sport/soccer/dundalk-fc-owner-brian-ainscough-believed-to-be-considering-his-future-at-oriel-park/a2123019098.html

[Another Bohemia]

Ainscough bored of Dundalk and looking to sell up already it seems. Club reportedly due to post a deficit of €1.2m in their 2023 accounts

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/louth/sport/soccer/dundalk-fc-owner-brian-ainscough-believed-to-be-considering-his-future-at-oriel-park/a2123019098.html


Any chance a fans trust will want to take over the club? I cant see why Dundalk fans keep trusting their club to owners who have little to no interest in the long term stability of the club

[Acornvilla]

Respectfully, I don't know if Dundalk is a large enough place with the numbers/finances to survive as a PD entity being fan owned. So many challenges, and so much funding needed, I'd only see things get considerably worse in the short-medium term.

[Jack B]

There does be a lot of childish chat on social media of clubs "rattling" others but safe to say Pats are taking the crown if they've managed to push an owner of a club over the edge by getting a fixture postponed.

[Another Bohemia]

Respectfully, I don't know if Dundalk is a large enough place with the numbers/finances to survive as a PD entity being fan owned. So many challenges, and so much funding needed, I'd only see things get considerably worse in the short-medium term.

Can it really be worse than a rotating door of owners? I mean they are on the verge of relegation as is and it's not like Ainscough has the financial backing currently to sustain significant losses. So if they do get relegated and Ainscough stays he doesn't have the money to pump into the club to get them straight back into the premier. So the funding challenges are likely to raise their head regardless of if it's a fan ownership model or private ownership. Things can get worse is both scenarios but at least with fan ownership you know the people running the club are likely in it for the long haul.

[placid casual]

A season in the 1st division may be just what the dundalk fans need, just to realise that the only way to save the club they profess to love will be to organize amongst themselves.
Looking for the next snake oil salesman to come along and fund their club is a frankly childish notion.

[RealJohn91]

The fans shouldn't have let him near the club after he left Kerry high and dry. Fella is clearly an idiot miles out of his depth.

[nigel-harps1954]

The fans taking over the club, at least in the short term, is the logical solution. But, this is the LOI and nothing is logical. Ainscough will look for money for the club and the fans won't be ponying up the money he'll want.

[joey B]

Ainscough clearly never had the funds required to run Dundalk,you’d have to ask serious questions of the people who sold it to him,if Dundalk don’t find another ‘sugar daddy’ and go down the fan ownership route you’d fear a barren few years again,from listening to James Rogers quite a bit over the last couple of years on Dundalk’s fundraising capacity it wouldn’t fill you with confidence,certainly nothing like a Sligo Rovers and what they’ve able to generate…..

[outspoken]

Any chance a fans trust will want to take over the club? I cant see why Dundalk fans keep trusting their club to owners who have little to no interest in the long term stability of the club

The problem with an awful lot of Dundalk fans is they have totally unrealistic expectations. They want local owners who can pump enough money in to redevelop oriel while competing for top honours on the pitch yet they don't seem to want to do any heavy lifting themselves. All the talk over the last few years of supporters clubs and fan groups and trusts and they are still no closer to actually forming a unified group that could be in a position to invest in the club let alone run it.

Even if they did start a trust in the morning, it's debatable how many would actually pay in to it. Even if they got a huge uptake, supporter owned clubs simply can't compete in this league any more without outside investment so Dundalk fans need to decide what they want, stability and growth off the pitch (ie Bohs/Sligo) and in the community or just keep praying they find a rich owner who buys them success.

The constant instability off the pitch is terrible though and you really do have to fear for the club. I would say that relegation and a chance to reset might not be the worst thing in the world but that only applies if the owner has his heart in the mission and it would seem BA doesn't judging by today's reports.

[JC_GUFC]

I don’t see how relegation could be the best thing for Dundalk at all.

It could be the death of the club if they don’t manage to bounce back in 2025 and at the moment I don’t know if they’ve any players signed.

The talk from the owner at the start was always quite vague in terms of the backing he was able to bring. To be fair he at least acknowledged that Oriel Park needed a complete revamp and made some small improvements but I suppose with the disastrous season on the pitch it’s possibly just become too much.

As for a fan takeover I don’t know is it advisable for fans to be taking on that sort of debt. It’s a very tough job and if 50% of the proceeds of each fundraiser just end up going on paying off some debt or other built up by previous regimes it’s very disheartening.

[Another Bohemia]

I don’t see how relegation could be the best thing for Dundalk at all.

It could be the death of the club if they don’t manage to bounce back in 2025 and at the moment I don’t know if they’ve any players signed.

The talk from the owner at the start was always quite vague in terms of the backing he was able to bring. To be fair he at least acknowledged that Oriel Park needed a complete revamp and made some small improvements but I suppose with the disastrous season on the pitch it’s possibly just become too much.

As for a fan takeover I don’t know is it advisable for fans to be taking on that sort of debt. It’s a very tough job and if 50% of the proceeds of each fundraiser just end up going on paying off some debt or other built up by previous regimes it’s very disheartening.

Genuinely what are the other options to fan ownership in this case though? If it was Galway or Waterford i.e. a team on the up you could probably convince an owner to come in, maintain current budgets and try to push on but as is Dundalk are in a rapid decline, have debts, ground is falling apart and staring down the barrel of relegation (I actually think statements like this make relegation more likely). Added to that the fans have been vocally against previous ownership regimes so if I'm some multi millionaire what's the benefit to me in taking on the task that is Dundalk? Yes initially if a fan ownership model ends up coming to fruition it's going to be a tough slog but it's hardly been plain sailing until now.

[Martinho II]

Im just wondering if Dundalk cant get their ownership model sorted out would they be nearly better getting out of the loi altogether temporarily? JC knows all about what happened to Galway Utd a decade and a half ago and it actually did them no harm getting out of the league and getting back in when Salthill Devon/Mervue Utd didnt work out. Whats happened at Galway Utd now is phenomenal and the model a lot of loi fans want!

[Acornvilla]

I'll happily drop Longford out of the league if it means a local billionaire comes in to bring us to Europe :D

[Another Bohemia]

Yeah not sure how viable the "Galway model" is for most clubs :D

[placid casual]

Do the many dundalk fans on here not have anything to contribute in regards to the future of their club.
They're never short of an opinion when it comes to talking about any other LOI clubs.:)

[Thewhitepele]

Yeah not sure how viable the "Galway model" is for most clubs :D

I do wonder if the Galway model is even sustainable for Galway. I was at one of their games this season and was really impressed with the amount of young people at the game. It will be interesting if they can sustain it given they have lots of competing sports which have more of a traditional fan base.

[Another Bohemia]

I do wonder if the Galway model is even sustainable for Galway. I was at one of their games this season and was really impressed with the amount of young people at the game. It will be interesting if they can sustain it given they have lots of competing sports which have more of a traditional fan base.

To be fair I don't think they are going mad on squad wages. Id say they're middle of the pack, more than Dundalk, Drogs, Waterford but less than the Dublin clubs? The only 2 that would push the wages up Keohane and Cunningham. Can't think of anyone else that would be on big wages.

[pineapple stu]

If they're not going mad on wages but losing €1.2m a year, then they've a serious problem somewhere else.