Hull City owners to take majority stake in Dundalk?

[Longfordian]

If Dundalk entered SCARP post relegation would the deduction apply to next season or this season? Let's say they're relegated with a game to spare could they go into SCARP straight away and the points deduction would have no impact at all?

[Kiki Balboa]

I remember John well from Ogra FF days so he shouldn't have too much trouble getting money from the government. All in all it just shows that every LOI club is maybe about 2 weeks from going out of business if things go even a tiny bit wrong !

That explains a couple of things...

[Another Bohemia]

No certainly not, I think nearly eveyone has said that this lacks detail and info is scant with comments that do the opposite of fill with confidence. Its all relative though, get to season's end is priority 1 and go from there. This ownership may also have the potential to set the club up to thrive, imo especally if other interested parties are brought in to the fold and some level of fan ownershp considered which was definitely not the case with previous owners. There was contempt for fans in the lack of engagement previously prior to BA though BA was willing to engage plenty in the pubs around Oriel with fans and talk about appointing king and missing out on Kenny among other things. But yeah there is plenty to run on this, I believe there is a meeting today with local companies, probably a number od creditors among them, that could be on debt or converting debt, or writing it down or committing to paying it in full so hence scant on detail until that meeting happens. It was said previously that it would take 3mil to mae the club sustainable by this group so at least they have figures where BA just talked about bringing in investors. If we are relegated in November it would be easier to enter SCARP but burning local business is not somehing Id be happy with so yup plenty more rope in this saga.

I understand getting to seasons end is an achievement in itself but you note that fans have been previously treated with contempt but I think it's a bit of a 2 way street. Has any ownership group been embraced by the fans? P6 basically run out of town, Statsports were locals but fans were unhappy with lack of investment, BA I don't think ever had fan backing so why would any owner try to get feedback from a group that holds them in contempt? Building on that many of the fans seem to feel entitled to big budget pro football but outside of buying a jersey, match ticket and some pints don't want to do anything else which makes that big budget pro football viable. There's a lot of challenges that have to be addressed before seasons end imo and whether fans get an ownership stake or not they need to commit to their club in more solid ways than buying a match ticket and a jersey.

[Nesta99]

The early/mid days of those ownerships there was no issue from fans yet the was a lack of engagement. By far the worst were Statsorts/AC and they rode in to Oriel on the shoulders of fans and that was it.

[Knocklyonhoop]

No outlandish promises from this fella. Said they’ll review on and off pitch (and seems a bit more focus on off?) so looks like a steady sensible approach, particularly if ye stay up

[Martinho II]

Read a very good interview in todays Irish Sun with Dermot Keely on Dundalks troubles and launch of his new book. In it he mentioned that in 94/95 season at some stage they were only getting 200 fans in Oriel at matches and somehow won the league! Must have being very difficult times being a Dundalk fan that season

[brendy_éire]

its all relative though, get to season's end is priority 1 and go from there. This ownership may also have the potential to set the club up to thrive, imo especally if other interested parties are brought in to the fold and some level of fan ownershp considered which was definitely not the case with previous owners.

That's all I'll take from this arrangement too.
The club isn't being liquidated this week. It buys some time.

Moving on, don't know it's better financially for Dundalk to be in the PD or FD next season. You'd almost always say PD, but in the FD, you could offload some of the higher wage earners. Combined with a team, let's guess, being FD title contenders, you'd expect to get decent crowds.

[LTFC]

That's all I'll take from this arrangement too.
The club isn't being liquidated this week. It buys some time.

Moving on, don't know it's better financially for Dundalk to be in the PD or FD next season. You'd almost always say PD, but in the FD, you could offload some of the higher wage earners. Combined with a team, let's guess, being FD title contenders, you'd expect to get decent crowds.

In simple economics terms FD - no brainer. You go from needing 60k per week, to 500k for the year and would be competitive with that in 1st and likely show a surplus.
Another season in PD with a falling budget, but still over and above what club can sustain is not giving club a chance to fix its problems.

[nigel-harps1954]

Simple economics also suggests they have player contracts to honour.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

2 years of Daryl Horgan won’t be cheap for staters

[pineapple stu]

You'd imagine they'd all be unlikely to be around next season

[Nesta99]

2 years of Daryl Horgan won’t be cheap for staters

Supposedly his wages are 'sponsored'. Figures freom last season are shocking and imo shows how those owners put in as little effort as fans to raise revenue. More than a 50% fall in sponsorship being the headliner for me. Now unless that was due to a very big sponsoship deal coming to an end it smacks of not following up un sponorship form the locality, but commmunicate the issues and maybe people would have stepped up. Gates were down significantly also and player costs up though not massively year on year. Ok cash in the bank, almost .5mil to 70k. Qualifying for Europe still would have left a big hole unless we went to a PO round. Im sure these figures were available to BA and more significantly the FAI under licencing and passing the current years projected budget.

[Another Bohemia]

Simple economics also suggests they have player contracts to honour.

Players agents usually build in release clauses for relegation. No whether those players want to activate that clause and if they would garner any interest from other LOI teams is the question.

[oriel]

Read a very good interview in todays Irish Sun with Dermot Keely on Dundalks troubles and launch of his new book. In it he mentioned that in 94/95 season at some stage they were only getting 200 fans in Oriel at matches and somehow won the league! Must have being very difficult times being a Dundalk fan that season

That was for one game v Cobh at the start of the season and it was around 400 not 200, also moved to a Sunday.


However for the final game of the season, granted it was a long shot as needed Derry not to win, and Shels not to win either, when Dundalk beat Galway to win the league, only 1,500 were there.

[Kiki Balboa]

That was for one game v Cobh at the start of the season and it was around 400 not 200, also moved to a Sunday.


However for the final game of the season, granted it was a long shot as needed Derry not to win, and Shels not to win either, when Dundalk beat Galway to win the league, only 1,500 were there.

From my understanding... the 90s was the darkest of dark times for the LOI.

The great Shels team marked a revival - which crashed again at the end of the celtic tiger.

Just a side note... the Paul Cook Sligo team did so much for the way the league played football too. Probably one of the understated pioneers of LOI for me.

[A N Mouse]

Genuine question.

Is there a situation where Dundalk somehow stay up on the field but are refused a premier license?

Could be someone objecting to proposed debt repayment? Or result of irregularities in previous process?

[oriel]

Oh I would say that's very possible, sure how could it not be?

New group are ensuring the ship is afloat until end of season, then the debt needs to be tackled, I would say there are only two options then.

1/ New group with assistance of the bid that didn't get it (seems to be Donal Greene - Slovakia based but ex player) pays off or does deals with all debt. Possible chance of PD licence, but I wouldn't be surprised if refused.

2/ No deal to be done on the debt, and its immediate SCARP, and FD regardless.

[oriel]

From my understanding... the 90s was the darkest of dark times for the LOI.

The great Shels team marked a revival - which crashed again at the end of the celtic tiger.

Just a side note... the Paul Cook Sligo team did so much for the way the league played football too. Probably one of the understated pioneers of LOI for me.

Early 90's economically Ireland was in a terrible state, actually add in all of the 80's too. Remove rose tinted Italia 90 glasses, those of age, and skip to 1991, I think it was the highest modern day unemployment figures with 21 or 22% not having jobs. I don't think it was around then, but that would have immediately triggered a bail out like we got in 2008-09?, just as well Celtic tiger started around 96 or so, as we were heading into the abyss.

I worked in UK for 4 years early 90's, I'd say 1 in 3 of my school year all ended up leaving the country around that time, so we had far less money and less people spending, paying into a football match was a choice many just couldn't afford.

[nigel-harps1954]

The circus continues, as in his first week, the new owner can't pay the wages.

[Nesta99]

Its a deferral supposedly based on the fact the the takeover was only completed yesterday. Expected really while transfer of bank accounts to authorise payments has to be done. Stiil it does look at face value as more messing.

[oriel]

The circus continues, as in his first week, the new owner can't pay the wages.

Players offered to defer wages even before the deadline had come into play on Monday.

This is not a case of 'can't pay' its more the situation where he has been upfront with the players, held a meeting and told them this week won't be paid but they will be fully paid up to end of October, and back dated for this week, probably in the next salary sent.

To be fair today is only the second full day of the takeover, that said the optics admittedly do not look good on the headline story.

[Another Bohemia]

Players offered to defer wages even before the deadline had come into play on Monday.

This is not a case of 'can't pay' its more the situation where he has been upfront with the players, held a meeting and told them this week won't be paid but they will be fully paid up to end of October, and back dated for this week, probably in the next salary sent.

To be fair today is only the second full day of the takeover, that said the optics admittedly do not look good on the headline story.

I'm reminded of a quote "when you look at someone through rose coloured glasses, all the red flags just look like flags"

I'm not saying it's unreasonable to have some delay in payment when there's a sudden change of ownership but keep in mind it's already been noted that they are looking for other investors and speaking with the consortium they beat out for ownership. As fans I hope ye just keep the fundraising efforts going in the background because whether these lads have their hearts on the right place or not money is needed in the end to keep the show on the road.

[oriel]

No rose tinted from me, I fully accept DFC are still in the fight of their lives.

We have come off life support that's all, but still in a critical state. Honest interview here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyEKXwj76Tc

[Nesta99]

There could be a bit more in the tank than is being said, talk about viability as a call for fans to show that it is, **** or get off the pot stuff. A home game this week would have been ideal as both a guage of committment from the fanbase and some cash in for immediate costs. Should be the same next week but would have been good to see the impact of the scare immediately. Maybe the first thing that could be done is release tickets for next week for sale and see how many will be through the gates. Less than 3k and its done, it should be like last game winner takes all type attendance ie sold out. Then its looking at season ticket sales for next season imo should be considered before eason end, and all the various other initiatives being scarambled to put together over the closed season.

[Longfordian]

What does viable mean in this context though? At its current level? As a LOI club on a much lower budget? I'd imagine, as is the case with a lot of clubs, that the former isn't going to be viable without someone putting a lot of money in every year. The latter is probably viable if there's a deal done on the debts.

[Nesta99]

Viabe = being able to exist in any form so bottom of Div 1 as a starting point.

[Longfordian]

If your owners agree with that then you should be OK whenever they sit down to assess things. If the players and Revenue are paid then the other creditors should be amenable to doing a deal to allow the club to continue even if they're paid over a longer term.

[A N Mouse]

Oh I would say that's very possible, sure how could it not be?

New group are ensuring the ship is afloat until end of season, then the debt needs to be tackled, I would say there are only two options then.

1/ New group with assistance of the bid that didn't get it (seems to be Donal Greene - Slovakia based but ex player) pays off or does deals with all debt. Possible chance of PD licence, but I wouldn't be surprised if refused.

2/ No deal to be done on the debt, and its immediate SCARP, and FD regardless.

Thanks.

Not sure if I need to read them again, but some of the responses when first division was mentioned seemed to suggest Dundalk just had to get to and win the play-off and they were golden.

Not sure of the precedent, but would add a third option too. Half expect a points deduction should Dundalk threaten making the play-off. If only to save faffing about with licensing or actual demotion.

My recollection of our last flirtation with all this is a little hazy, but wouldn't wish it on anyone. The first division wasn't so bad, especially if you can get out on first go :) . And having a sugar daddy isn't all it's cracked up to, never mind the last three years we've been failing to meet potential since first winning the league. Though we may yet get our own training and academy facilities (and finished stadium), you know round about the same time harps move into their new stadium. A well run Dundalk could probably pip us to that.

Anyway I'm sure Derry will do their bit to put the points deduction theory to the test, bad news is we have to play drogs too though.

[Longfordian]

Interesting piece from Dan McDonnell here on the desperate attempts to find someone to take over. Rings alarm bells for me in terms of the new owners but in fairness they're not promising anything long term.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/daniel-mcdonnell-inside-the-48-hours-that-brought-dundalk-back-from-the-brink/a1824554603.html

[total hoofball]

A crazy read in today's Indo (paywalled) about Ainscough's supposed 'resignation' from the Boston Bolts.....

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/offensive-abusive-and-threatening-dundalk-boss-brian-ainscough-was-sued-by-us-club-over-vengeful-campaign-after-dismissal/a486613980.html


Original Indo article from last December not paywalled is below

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/louth/sport/soccer/dundalk-fc-owner-brian-ainscough-steps-down-from-bolton-bolts-role-as-club-make-progress-behind-the-scenes/a18162917.html

[Longfordian]

If the new owner, despite the legal bluster, has been brought to court by the bank to repossess a property he hasn't paid the mortgage on then I'm not sure where he's going to get the money to keep Dundalk going. And the other members of his consortium were already part of the previous regime. I don't think Dundalk are out of danger at all.

[Nesta99]

If the new owner, despite the legal bluster, has been brought to court by the bank to repossess a property he hasn't paid the mortgage on then I'm not sure where he's going to get the money to keep Dundalk going. And the other members of his consortium were already part of the previous regime. I don't think Dundalk are out of danger at all.

There have been a few red flags alredy, what impact they will have only time will tell. But this sure isnt a Whight Night coming in, paying creditors and carry on as you were. There has been some things said that I wouldnt post here tbh, cant be verified, could be disgruntled former people involved not happy they were not brough back in to the fold. But there are definitely things to be cocerned about - they may have no impact but could be a type of insight to the character of Temple....or not. To repeat myself I think the key to sorting this out will be the involvement of Donal Greene and people (some might be familiar Americans) he has with him to restore some stability. Weekend results show that we are odds on to be relegated on the pitch which could make SCRP a no brainers as much as it goes against the grain to burn local creditors.

[A N Mouse]

There have been a few red flags alredy, what impact they will have only time will tell. But this sure isnt a Whight Night coming in, paying creditors and carry on as you were. There has been some things said that I wouldnt post here tbh, cant be verified, could be disgruntled former people involved not happy they were not brough back in to the fold. But there are definitely things to be cocerned about - they may have no impact but could be a type of insight to the character of Temple....or not. To repeat myself I think the key to sorting this out will be the involvement of Donal Greene and people (some might be familiar Americans) he has with him to restore some stability. Weekend results show that we are odds on to be relegated on the pitch which could make SCRP a no brainers as much as it goes against the grain to burn local creditors.

So could be the Lilly Wights next season

[Another Bohemia]

So could be the Lilly Wights next season

If they are they could take a page from Bohs book and do some Game of Thrones inspired kits. That should pay a few weeks wages.

[holidaysong]

So could be the Lilly Wights next season

A Dundalk owner always pays his debts.

[Nesta99]

That was an odd typo, brain frazzled!

[joey B]

1841945708892717191

What rumours are flying about now?

[outspoken]

1841945708892717191

What rumours are flying about now?

Strange statement especially the day that's in it, only rumour that was fairly widely circulating was players hadn't been paid which appears to be false thankfully

[Nesta99]

It was in one of the local papers this week that players werent paid up fully, ie most recent payment out of the takings from last weekends home game but not payment fully up to date, not so much rumours circulated on local media. Statement is kind of odd, bit all over the place, typos and even the way Maxi's name is put, the tribute to his memory today was irrespective of meetings at the club, internal or external!? Not a statement put together by the usual media people by the sound of it. What have the owners 'not indicated otherwise going forward'....strangely worded indeed!

[outspoken]

It was in one of the local papers this week that players werent paid up fully, ie most recent payment out of the takings from last weekends home game but not payment fully up to date, not so much rumours circulated on local media. Statement is kind of odd, bit all over the place, typos and even the way Maxi's name is put, the tribute to his memory today was irrespective of meetings at the club, internal or external!? Not a statement put together by the usual media people by the sound of it. What have the owners 'not indicated otherwise going forward'....strangely worded indeed!

Beyond bizarre, I didn't even bother posting it online yesterday given the day that was in it. I'd strongly suspect like yourself that the usual media people weren't involved.

[2 Year Contract]

Beyond bizarre, I didn't even bother posting it online yesterday given the day that was in it. I'd strongly suspect like yourself that the usual media people weren't involved.

I agree, it stinks of a statement written by the new ownership group. Pretty distasteful throwing Maxi into the middle of it, particularly given they day they, again, tone deafly released the statement on

[2 Year Contract]

LMFM reporting tonight that the Dundalk players haven’t been paid this week. You’d have to assume they wouldn’t have just thrown that out there without being sure of it, considering Dundalk's statement yesterday on the matter.

https://x.com/lmfmradio/status/1842317858472186358?s=46


SPORT: LMFM understands that Dundalk FC players have not been paid this week.

[total hoofball]

Looks like that LMFM tweet has been deleted...

[2 Year Contract]

Looks like that LMFM tweet has been deleted...
It has indeed. Maybe their source wasn’t as watertight as they thought. Either that or the solicitor owner had a few words. Or both!

[Nesta99]

Or that there are still plenty of agendas on the go. Players not paid, probable, some people breaking their necks to let eveyone know, definitely!

[dundalkfc10]

Clubs in Ireland can't be solely reliant on gate income or match day income. Especially if a club goes down the route of fan ownership. Sligo have led the way in fundraising, and raise a ridiculous amount of money each year through various fan fundraisers, and the likes of Bohemians have shown how to be smart commercially. The combination of these ideas should be the blueprint for any fan owned club in Ireland, especially those in bigger towns like Dundalk, also being the biggest sporting body in the area.


Seemingly wages have now been paid, and this is completely separate to the fan based Go Fund me (13.5k now), so BA must have got the cash from somewhere.

But it shouldn't have come to this, and is there any guarantee he will pay next months wages if there is no takeover by then?

The new owner has a tweet up saying he hopes LMFM have good lawyers

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

The new owner has a tweet up saying he hopes LMFM have good lawyers

John Delaney tactics

[Nesta99]

The new owner has a tweet up saying he hopes LMFM have good lawyers

I hope it is beacause the wages have actually bee paid and it not a deflection tactic.

[dundalkfc10]

Seemingly wages have now been paid, and this is completely separate to the fan based Go Fund me (13.5k now), so BA must have got the cash from somewhere.

But it shouldn't have come to this, and is there any guarantee he will pay next months wages if there is no takeover by then?

The wages have been paid.

[sbgawa]

Next weeks wages could be courtesy of LMFM