2014 World Cup

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Romario, Bebeto, Edmundo, Ronaldo

Luis Fabiano, Ricardo Oliveira

Fred, Jo

The devolution of Brazilian strikers....

I know Brazil were as bad as Germany were good but I think Germany will win the final comfortably enough. They're a lot stronger than Holland at the back and have more depth up front - Van Persie and Sneijder aren't as consistent as Robben. Then it's the Messi show for Argentina, Di Maria's injured and they still don't seem to know their strongest set up.

[BonnieShels]

Why is everyone lamenting this result? Brazil deserved this tanking.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I'll be gutted if Germany don't win now. They've been so much fun to watch for years, and this was just the apex of it. Ripped the Brazilians to pieces. Wonderful stuff.

[gastric]

Why is everyone lamenting this result? Brazil deserved this tanking.

Agree!

[NeverFeltBetter]

It's amazing how fast Brazil's back four fell to pieces when Silva was absent. But I wonder how much he really could have done tonight. You have to imagine a few of those goals would have been stopped, not least the first, third and fifth.

[geysir]

Course that Brazil team deserved to be beaten, they were woeful.

Bizarre incident when Neuer raced over to the ref to angrily remonstrate about some minor detail, the ref put his hand gently on Neuer's arm in a calming gesture, Neuer reacted and was probably about to hit the ground and clutch his face, but realising at the last moment that it was the ref who was making the contact.

[Razors left peg]

Even Oscar Pistorius has a better defense than Brazil!

[gastric]

It will be interesting to see how Brazil play now in the 3rd/4th playoff. Martin Tyler said that in 40 years of commentating, he has never seen a team of Brazil's pedigree capitulate so easily.

[BonnieShels]

It will be interesting to see how Brazil play now in the 3rd/4th playoff. Martin Tyler said that in 40 years of commentating, he has never seen a team of Brazil's pedigree capitulate so easily.
Pedigree?

As inbred to the hilt?

[Crosby87]

I don't know what is more surprising, this blow out or the fact that Garth Brooks has enough fans in Ireland that he could have played 5 concerts at the Croker.
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2014/07/08/protested-garth-brooks-comeback-shows-canceled/

[Charlie Darwin]

True. Arguably the turning point was their full back getting injured, forcing Lahm out of centre mid.

But this style is similar to their club style which is starting to gain traction in Europe too. And this isn't an atypical German performance. Ok, it's against Brazil in a World Cup semi in Brazil, but we all knew Germany could play like this.

Is Thomas Muller on course to be the first player to be top scorer at two tournaments?
That's the question though. Spain arguably only became Spain when Del Bosque took over from Aragones after Euro 2008 and became the death-by-football side they were at their peak. Germany seem to be at a similar stage right now, but Loew seems to be a bit of a tactical wildcard, trying to fix non-existent problems. If he wins this tournament, it's hard to see him stepping down and letting somebody perfect what he's started.

Correct, nobody has ever been top scorer at two tournaments, let alone consecutive tournaments. James is still a goal ahead of him though.

[geysir]

I remember Hungary beat El salvador by a cricket score
And the weird thing was EL Salvador were not that bad, some spectacular footballers, a team of dribblers, 11 of them , some better than others.

[strangeirish]

Even Oscar Pistorius has a better defense than Brazil!
And even he doesn't have a leg to stand on...

[BonnieShels]

That's the question though. Spain arguably only became Spain when Del Bosque took over from Aragones after Euro 2008 and became the death-by-football side they were at their peak. Germany seem to be at a similar stage right now, but Loew seems to be a bit of a tactical wildcard, trying to fix non-existent problems. If he wins this tournament, it's hard to see him stepping down and letting somebody perfect what he's started.

Correct, nobody has ever been top scorer at two tournaments, let alone consecutive tournaments. James is still a goal ahead of him though.


He's contracted until the end of Euro 2016 anyway.

[gastric]

Pedigree?

As inbred to the hilt?

Germany were brilliant, while Brazil had an absolute shocker. On paper Brazil are a good team, but not world beaters.

[pineapple stu]

Why is everyone lamenting this result? Brazil deserved this tanking.
Who's lamenting the result?

I only wish Özil had scored in the last minute to make it 8-0 instead of 7-1.

Maybe - maybe - this'll lead to a re-think of Brazilian football, and a more traditional side can emerge in years to come.

And maybe, in all seriousness, the political scene in Brazil might be worth watching in the next few weeks.


That's the question though. Spain arguably only became Spain when Del Bosque took over from Aragones after Euro 2008 and became the death-by-football side they were at their peak. Germany seem to be at a similar stage right now, but Loew seems to be a bit of a tactical wildcard, trying to fix non-existent problems. If he wins this tournament, it's hard to see him stepping down and letting somebody perfect what he's started.
Fair point.

But I still reckon Germany will win the next Euros. When they're on form, there's no other team can match them. I even mentioned it earlier in this thread, when Armenia (yes, I know) equalised against them in the 70th minute in a pre-World Cup friendly, and Germany scored five in the next quarter hour. They can do that. We've seen it tonight; we've seen it in Lansdowne Road, we've seen it other times. I don't think any other team in the world can match them when they're on form. And I think - if they can replace whoever needs replacing as the time comes - they can go down in history as every bit as good, if not better, than that Spanish team.


Correct, nobody has ever been top scorer at two tournaments, let alone consecutive tournaments. James is still a goal ahead of him though.
In my defence, I thought Müller had scored the sixth, which would have put him joint top with a game to go.

[BonnieShels]

Who's lamenting the result?



There's a lot of lamenting going on outside of the foot.ie bubble.

[DannyInvincible]

There's a lot of lamenting going on outside of the foot.ie bubble.

What would they know?!

[pineapple stu]

Ah right so.

Let them at it.

[BonnieShels]

What would they know?!

Not a lot. It's why I'm in here.

[Charlie Darwin]

Bonnie, get off YBIG.

[bennocelt]

Was I imaging things or did the Beeb play out to Jimmy Sumerville? Hansen was so angry after totally miscalling the game tonight, thank god he is moving on. God I miss RTE!

[DannyInvincible]

Had anyone heard the fans singing at the end?: "We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland.."

(OK, it's doing the rounds on Facebook. :) )

[Stuttgart88]

Was I imaging things or did the Beeb play out to Jimmy Sumerville? Hansen was so angry after totally miscalling the game tonight, thank god he is moving on. God I miss RTE!
Was it Jimmy or the Donna Summer original? I think it was Jimmy but maybe the original was 1978?

That WC78 final footage brought back memories. That evening changed my life forever. The stadium, the crowd, the colour contrast, the paper, Kempes...everything.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Scolari taking full responsibility in post-match press conference. I understand thats par for the course for managers, but there are a lot of players who should get thrown to the wolves before him.

[DannyInvincible]

Amused by the BBC's continuous reporting of the scoreline throughout their website, reports and updates as "Brazil 1-7 Germany (Seven)". Just in case anyone thought that "7" might be a repeated typo times a few hundred...

[pineapple stu]

Always standard on the old videprinter.

Need to bring back the videprinter actually. The slow one, not the fast one which defeats the whole point.

Shamelessly robbed from boards - Oscar. Brazil's Andy Keogh.

[DannyInvincible]

Was I imaging things or did the Beeb play out to Jimmy Sumerville?

'Twas Donna Summer, no?:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2q2bis6eLE

[bennocelt]

ha thanks I have Jimmy on the mind, oopps:o

[NeverFeltBetter]

RTE apparently played out to Garth Brooks' "The Dance".

[Closed Account 2]

Somewhere between Madrid and London SW6 Diego Costa is breathing a slight sigh of relief.

[DannyInvincible]

Simon Kuper's and Stefan Szymanski's "Soccernomics"

Upon the recommendation of a friend, I eventually got this (re-)delivered to me the other day by Amazon after my initial order got lost in the post. Haven't had a chance to get stuck in yet, but very much looking forward to it. My version is the "World Cup Edition" and is written in American English (referring to collective nouns strictly in the singular and all that...); is yours the same? Is there even a new non-US version?

[BonnieShels]

Had anyone heard the fans singing at the end?: "We're not Brazil, we're Northern Ireland.."

(OK, it's doing the rounds on Facebook. :) )

Edwin Poots said something on twitter and my response was something similar. Not that I'd ever refer to his jurisdictional area as that though.

[BonnieShels]

Bonnie, get off YBIG.

Haven't been on there in an age actually...

The weather in Ottawa is matching Brazil's mood just heard the loudest thunder clap of my life. Proper jumped.

[BonnieShels]

Edwin Poots said something on twitter and my response was something similar. Not that I'd ever refer to his jurisdictional area as that though.

http://i61.tinypic.com/2v1ra05.png

[NeverFeltBetter]

Upon the recommendation of a friend, I eventually got this (re-)delivered to me the other day by Amazon after my initial order got lost in the post. Haven't had a chance to get stuck in yet, but very much looking forward to it. My version is the "World Cup Edition" and is written in American English (referring to collective nouns strictly in the singular and all that...); is yours the same? Is there even a new non-US version?

I beleive so. Its an amazing read, really opened up my eyes on a lot of aspects of the game I'd never considered before.

[strangeirish]

http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/CSBHwc6N3JRLJ8oy1_N9aQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTgwMDtweW9mZj0wO3E9Nz U7dz0xMTU4/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/gettyimages.com/brazil-v-germany-semi-final-20140708-220933-538.jpg

[NeverFeltBetter]

Heat maps! David Luiz, apparently playing CB:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsDRyqBCAAAqky4.png

And Marcelo, apparently playing LB: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsDYVs6CIAIAXhx.png

[pineapple stu]

Kind of sums up what I was thinking from the 20th to the 30th minute - schoolboy stuff. Headless chickens torn apart.

If Argentina beat Holland tonight, who will the locals in the crowd for the final be supporting? Or could we have lots of empty seats for it?

[NeverFeltBetter]

I'd imagine they'd go and back the Dutch. I hope that's not the case, and its Brazilian/Argentine 3rd/4th Place Play Off, because playing them is probably the only reason that Brazil would raise their game and make it interesting to watch.

[OwlsFan]

Was I imaging things or did the Beeb play out to Jimmy Sumerville? Hansen was so angry after totally miscalling the game tonight, thank god he is moving on. God I miss RTE!

You missed Dunphy calling Germany an average side before the game when it must be clear to all, even before the game, that they are a better than average side with Muller, Schweinsteiger etc in the side. I expected a 0-3 win for Germany but didn't think it would be 7 (except when it was 6). Very similar to our game with the consolation at the end. Didn't Kilbane also say on Sunday that the Gerries were very limited and nothing for us to fear? Hmmmm.

However, have they now left their best on the field against Brazil? A bit like the Costa Rican penalty takers. Can they perform again up to that standard with the media now expecting it? I wouldn't be too sure.

Tonight is a very difficult one to predict. Is it Messi's year or the Dutch who have been so close so often? Stop Robben and you stop the Dutch. It's hard to imagine a South American tournament without a SA team in the Final. I think I'll go for Argentina but if Dunphy goes for them, I am changing to the Dutch :) If Van Persie's trotts haven't dried up by this evening, it might be tough for them plus the game against Costa Rica will have taken a lot out of them. A Dutch/German Final will be great but I have a sneaking suspicion it will be Messi.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Rewatching the game on the Player, still aghast at how bad Luiz was. It wasn't just that he was outplayed, he just didn't seem to want to try. He's miles away ball watching for the fifth for example. What happened? This guy just got bought for 40 million!

The thing that strikes me watching those four goals is how calm Germany look. I'd half expect another team to get into that position of having so much space to pass the ball around the Brazilian box and have near-open goals, and fluff their lines through panic and surprise. The fifth especially, when Muller just feeds it back to Khedira after getting the ball from him. As cool and collected as possible. Loath as I am to quote Dunphy, he was right when he called it a ruthless professional performance. No mercy at all, and no complacency.

[A N Mouse]

No, there was a bit earlier in the thread about how punching was better than catching because it was less risky. Simply not true, imo. There's absolutely a time for punching, but it you can catch the ball, do it. Too many keepers seem to have lost that skill. Lots of utterly stupid punches so far this tournament.

Who made this outlandish, and plainly false, observation?

[jbyrne]

Rewatching the game on the Player, still aghast at how bad Luiz was. It wasn't just that he was outplayed, he just didn't seem to want to try. He's miles away ball watching for the fifth for example. What happened?


you can be too wound up for a match and thats exactly what Luiz was. his wc has been based on emotion with little substance to back it up. he had no concentration to do the basics (1st goal) and continually found himself in areas he shouldn't be (5th goal) as a result. poor management by scolari not keeping a lid on this

[centre mid]

It could be easy to get carried away with the result from last night. 4 Goals in 7/8 mins made a mockery of the game and the last 70 mins can probably be discounted. If you take Hummels out of the back four then they are vulnerable. They are also vulnerable to pace even with Hummels in there. Midfield is their strength and they are very strong, probably the best midfield three in the competition which makes a little bit of a mockery of the coach for copying and pasting Bayerns playbook.

Brazil were awful without Silva to organise them. The had lost the match when they were holding up Neymar's shirt before the match, almost admitting defeat. The German team could smell the desperation in the air.

[Stuttgart88]

That game reminded me of Arsenal's early capitulations at both Anfield and Chelsea last season. Oddly enough, I thought our capitulation against Germany was a different kind of hammering.

I don't really rate Silva but clearly he has leadership and organisational qualities that were missed. Despite his awful showing last night I still quite like David Luiz, I just wouldn't ever pick him as a centre back!

Brazil seemed to think just wanting desperately to win the World Cup would be enough to scrape through. Their superstitions, tears and totemic icons were quite frankly an embarrassment to the players, the country and the broader game.

One of my biggest bugbears in amateur sporting hackery is use of the term "real men" or "it's a man's game" but I'll happily concede that the fragility this bunch of players displayed at several times during this tournament was unbefitting of top tier professional sportsmen. The Brazilian football team quite frankly needs to grow a pair.

By contrast the professionalism of the Germans was unreal. Their goal celebrations were relatively restrained, they avoided any yellow cards, they were still critical if passes were played carelessly and they were furious to concede a goal. High fives, smiles and hugs were about as far as they went and by all accounts in the dressing room they barely celebrated, knowing that there is still one big game left to play.

[OwlsFan]

They realise they're only at the gates of Moscow and....

[DannyInvincible]

"The world according to Lawro": http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/10957029/World-Cup-2014-The-world-according-to-Lawro.html


Important moments in history, described in the style of the BBC’s ever-cheerful World Cup analyst, Mark Lawrenson

God creates the heaven and the earth

Six days? Six whole days? I’ll be honest with you, Jonathan – I’d have expected quicker than that. There’s been a lot of hype around this God lad, and He’s not exactly lived up to it so far, has He? If I were His manager I’d be concerned about His workrate. Six days. At Liverpool Bob Paisley used to create the heaven and the earth in five days, tops. Bill Shankly could do it in three.

Give Him his due, Jonathan, He’s done all right making the firmament and dividing the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And He’s not done too bad creating great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind. That was okay.

But what’s all this about promising to give man dominion over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth? I don’t think so, somehow, do you? Me and the missus went on a camping holiday to Scotland last year and we had absolutely no dominion over every creeping thing that creepeth upon that campsite, I’ll tell you that for nothing. Our Susie was up half the night covered in bites.

I can’t say I’m impressed by God’s positional sense, either. He’s literally all over the place.

The invention of the wheel

I just can’t see it catching on, Jonathan. I know the wheel is meant to be the latest thing, and I’m sure it’s very fashionable in London, but any normal person is going to look at it and think, “What am I supposed to do with that?” It’s too big to use as a plate. It’s too heavy to use as a Frisbee. You can’t even use it as a football, because although it looks round from one angle, it actually isn’t if you turn it on its side. I just don’t see the point of it.

It’s a fad, and 10 years from now everyone will have forgotten it. End of story.

Jesus feeds the five thousand

Don’t get me wrong, Jonathan, this lad Christ is a promising young prophet. But trying to feed 5,000 people on only five loaves and two fishes? That’s just poor planning. Goodness knows what they teach them at these Judean catering colleges. If you’re expecting 5,000 covers, you’re looking at, what, 1,000 loaves and 2,500 fishes, minimum. It’s not rocket science. I just think Christ needs to cut out these basic errors.

This disciple lot don’t seem that bothered, mind you. The way they go on about him, you’d think he could walk on water.

The Roman conquest of Britain

So poor, Jonathan. Where was the defence? This Roman attack is powder-puff, but they’ve walked right through these ancient tribesmen like they weren’t even there. What do the tribesmen think they’re doing with all these spears and slingshots? It’s guns you want, Jonathan. Guns and tanks and bombs and planes. Where were the missiles? I just don’t think the tribe’s manager’s done his homework.

I tell you what, we’ve seen next to nothing of this Boudicca lad everyone’s been talking about. I think he’s started to believe his own hype.

The building of the Taj Mahal

One of the universally admired masterpieces of the world’s heritage? Give me strength, Jonathan. Call that a jawab? These Mughals wouldn’t know a roofed chhatri if it bit them on the backside. My youngest could make better minarets out of a couple of used toilet rolls.
Taj Mahal? Taj Ma-Hell, more like.

The sinking of the Titanic

No prizes for predicting this one, Jonathan. You could see it coming a mile off. What’s the first thing they teach you at shipping school? Lesson one: don’t sail into an iceberg. And what’s the captain done? Sailed into an iceberg. It’s schoolboy stuff, Jonathan.

I just think the captain needs to go back to the drawing board and have another look at his tactics, because Plan A is most definitely not working.

Emily Davison throws herself in front of the King’s horse

I’ve said it before, Jonathan, and I’ll say it again: call me old-fashioned, but Suffragism is a man’s game.

Look at Davison here. I’m not being funny, but she’s turned up at the Epsom Derby, she’s run on to the track, and then she’s tried to grab the bridle of George V’s horse. Talk about poor decision-making. How’s that going to win women the vote? It’s politicians you want to talk to, love, not horses. I don’t care what these Suffragettes say, the right to vote is not decided by a horse, even a royal one. Never has been, never will be. I just think she’s been naïve.

The moon landings

“One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind”? What’s that supposed to mean when it’s at home? It’s nonsense, Jonathan. Pure and simple. Armstrong’s had all the time in the world to come up with a memorable catchphrase, and he’s blown it. He’s frozen on the big occasion.

I remember when we drew the moon in the quarter-finals of the European Cup the year we won the treble under Joe Fagan. The away leg was in the Sea of Tranquility. It’s not an easy place to go, and if you make a mistake there’s literally nowhere to hide. No atmosphere, either. Still, we kept it tight, took them back to Anfield for the return, and the rest is history.

His own birth

I just think it was disappointing, Jonathan. Everyone had been building it up for ages, and then on the day it’s like, “So what?” Into the birth canal, couple of pushes, out we go, no big deal. Everyone was making all this fuss, “Ooh he’s got your eyes, Jim, ooh he’s got your chin, Barbara.” I just thought, “Seen it all before.”

It took me a few months to learn to walk, and I didn’t say my first word till I was a year old, but at the end of the day I’d just put that down to lack of experience.

[pineapple stu]

Who made this outlandish, and plainly false, observation?
I don't know (http://foot.ie/threads/190614-2014-World-Cup?p=1762547&highlight=punch#post1762547). :)

Though this (http://foot.ie/threads/190614-2014-World-Cup?p=1762555&highlight=punch#post1762555) is more the one I was thinking of.

Maybe I've taken ye up wrong. Or even, with the passage of time, misrepresented ye in the post above. If so, apologies. I think the posts were in reply to my own giving out about the lack of catching, so I assumed ye were taking up a contrary position to my own.

But I still think catching has to be the first choice whenever possible, and there's been too many keepers in this tournament happy to parry when they could have caught. Iran for one have paid a heavy price for that. That's not anglophilia or GAA influence - it's just good goalkeeping.

[bennocelt]

I don't know (http://foot.ie/threads/190614-2014-World-Cup?p=1762547&highlight=punch#post1762547). :)

Though this (http://foot.ie/threads/190614-2014-World-Cup?p=1762555&highlight=punch#post1762555) is more the one I was thinking of.

Maybe I've taken ye up wrong. Or even, with the passage of time, misrepresented ye in the post above. If so, apologies. I think the posts were in reply to my own giving out about the lack of catching, so I assumed ye were taking up a contrary position to my own.

But I still think catching has to be the first choice whenever possible, and there's been too many keepers in this tournament happy to parry when they could have caught. Iran for one have paid a heavy price for that. That's not anglophilia or GAA influence - it's just good goalkeeping.

Just look at the Swiss keeper as well, one of the worst at it. He couldnt catch a ball to save his life!