2014 World Cup

[DannyInvincible]

This unfolding result is a disaster for the Russians. They'll need to beat Algeria by two clear goals as it stands, and it could yet get worse.

Wouldn't a simple victory for Russia suffice, assuming Belgium also beat South Korea? Russia are on one point at the minute. Algeria will have three if they win this. Russia would finish on four points if they beat Algeria in the final round of games.

Algeria are walking all over South Korea here. The Russians must be livid watching this. Why didn't they go for it in their opener?

[OwlsFan]

Isn't great when an African team goes out to attack from the start. Two beautiful hoof ball goals as well.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Wouldn't a simple victory for Russia suffice, assuming Belgium also beat South Korea? Russia are on one point at the minute. Algeria will have three if they win this. Russia would finish on four points if they beat Algeria in the final round of games.

Algeria are walking all over South Korea here. The Russians must be livid watching this. Why didn't they go for it in their opener?

You're right, for some reason I thought Algeria had a point already.

[DannyInvincible]

He nutmegged the keeper from seven yards after taking it down on his back. Impressive!

[DannyInvincible]

South Korea have been a lot more positive this half - they've had no other option - but that goal will surely have burst any bubble of resurgence.

[Razors left peg]

Almost didnt bother watching this game.... should have known better in this World cup!

[Stuttgart88]

I didn't watch. Saving my family credits for USA v Portugal.

[DannyInvincible]

I mentioned it at the time in the eligibility thread that I was listening to the Guardian's World Cup Football daily podcast the other day and James Richardson claimed that on top of their 23-man squads, France and Germany are the best-represented nations at the tournament with 16 and 18 extra players respectively participating in the tournament who would be eligible to play for them except for the fact they are presently representing other countries. I suppose I just accepted it to be true at the time without really thinking too much further about it, but I'm struggling to think of who these 18 German players to whom Richardson would have been referring are. I know 16 members of the Algerian team are from France, but I'm struggling trying to think of 18 Germans not playing for Germany. There's Boateng for Ghana, of course, and there are three or four Germans in the USA squad. Can anyone think of who the others would be?

[pineapple stu]

Would they be in the Dutch, Belgian and Swiss squads? German grandparents; something like that. You wouldn't really know with the names.

[BonnieShels]

I mentioned it at the time in the eligibility thread that I was listening to the Guardian's World Cup Football daily podcast the other day and James Richardson claimed that on top of their 23-man squads, France and Germany are the best-represented nations at the tournament with 16 and 18 extra players respectively participating in the tournament who would be eligible to play for them except for the fact they are presently representing other countries. I suppose I just accepted it to be true at the time without really thinking too much further about it, but I'm struggling to think of who these 18 German players to whom Richardson would have been referring are. I know 16 members of the Algerian team are from France, but I'm struggling trying to think of 18 Germans not playing for Germany. There's Boateng for Ghana, of course, and there are three or four Germans in the USA squad. Can anyone think of who the others would be?

There was an awful article I read last week on the same subject which delineated foreigners as people not born on that territory but neglecting to realise that the likes of Martinique, French Guiana and Saint-Martin etc. are France. They're not in Europe but they are French. I wouldn't be surprised that the information that Richardson referred to in his article would be similarly flawed.

[Stuttgart88]

Danny, look at tonight's USA game for a start. Very interesting article actually.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/usa/10916908/World-Cup-2014-Jurgen-Klinsman-has-borrowed-more-than-just-ideas-from-his-homeland-to-build-his-USA-side.html

[geysir]

Isn't great when an African team goes out to attack from the start. Two beautiful hoof ball goals as well.
Algeria are well ahead so far in the race for the Trapattoni golden hoof award. They excel in the classic lines, the appropriate hoof, wing play, set pieces, hard team work, grit and they look like a team of Jon Walters.

[pineapple stu]

What on earth were the American team doing during their anthem?

Ronaldo "risking his career" and playing against doctors' advice tonight? (http://metro.co.uk/2014/06/19/cristiano-ronaldo-will-risk-ending-his-career-by-playing-while-injured-for-portugal-4767435/)

[BonnieShels]

Danny, look at tonight's USA game for a start. Very interesting article actually.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/usa/10916908/World-Cup-2014-Jurgen-Klinsman-has-borrowed-more-than-just-ideas-from-his-homeland-to-build-his-USA-side.html

I saw this being referred to last week. But is it really surprising given the plethora of American bases in Germany still. Lots of Americans are born in Germany as a result.

Being born in a stable...

[pineapple stu]

That's the US I remember as a kid.

I still can't quite get to terms with the idea that they're quite good, and have been for a while.

[BonnieShels]

Brutal from the US.

[DannyInvincible]

Lovely bit of play from Ronaldo before Nani's goal, but if that above story is true, it's incredibly reckless from both the player himself and the management team. Group stage of the World Cup or not, I can't imagine Ronaldo would be allowed to play if there was a serious risk the injury he's carrying could end his career.

[BonnieShels]

That's the US I remember as a kid.

I still can't quite get to terms with the idea that they're quite good, and have been for a while.

Me too. It's pretty annoying. Same goes for Oz qualifying for world Cups. I'll never forget being the lone Uruguay supporter in 2005 in Federation Square, Melbourne when they qualified. Eugh.

Bring back the 90s. :)

[DannyInvincible]

Is that a medieval tunic Klinsmann's wearing?!

[pineapple stu]

it's incredibly reckless from both the player himself and the management team.
Just on this - wtf were Uruguay doing letting the unconscious, and then staggering, player play on against England? Literally unbelievable stuff.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Worthless defending from the US, but it says something that I saw the ball get to Nani in that position and instantly thought "He's going to **** this up somehow".

I know it goes against the grain a bit, but I've never been truly impressed by the US since 2002. Defence is consistently poor and potential is ruined by their terrible confederation.

Or maybe I'm biased because of my opinion of their fanbase, who I find insufferable.

[DannyInvincible]

Would they be in the Dutch, Belgian and Swiss squads? German grandparents; something like that. You wouldn't really know with the names.

The claim was that 18 of them were actually born in Germany, but it can't have been correct. Richardson didn't really go into detail and I think he said he'd gotten the info from someone who e-mailed in, so I'm not sure anyone at the Guardian even verified its veracity.

[Stuttgart88]

Me too. It's pretty annoying. Same goes for Oz qualifying for world Cups. I'll never forget being the lone Uruguay supporter in 2005 in Federation Square, Melbourne when they qualified. Eugh.

Bring back the 90s. :)
I was at a kids birthday party today (my son was invited, I didn't just turn up) and the parents were Australian. I got talking to the dad and I said that they had played well in the World Cup. He said something like "I heard that but I was away. How did we do?".

[Stuttgart88]

Have Portugal changed their keeper from the first game?

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's pretty annoying. Same goes for Oz qualifying for world Cups.

Why? They've actually made it harder for themselves, joining the Asian Federation...

[pineapple stu]

Have Portugal changed their keeper from the first game?
Yep; I think Rui Patricio was down as injured on the team lists.

So strangely, squad number 1 turns out to be the third-choice keeper.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The claim was that 18 of them were actually born in Germany, but it can't have been correct. Richardson didn't really go into detail and I think he said he'd gotten the info from someone who e-mailed in, so I'm not sure anyone at the Guardian even verified its veracity.
The answer will be on Wikipedia if anyone's assed to trawl through 32 squads and the best part of 650 names?

[DannyInvincible]

Have Portugal changed their keeper from the first game?

Aye, they've replaced Rui Patrício with Beto. Rui Patrício was a complete liability against Germany; his kicking was diabolical and only invited further pressure upon the team.

Edit: Maybe he's injured, as stu mentions, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was simply dropped.

[DannyInvincible]

The answer will be on Wikipedia if anyone's assed to trawl through 32 squads and the best part of 650 names?

I was having a brief look earlier but I just couldn't see any team other than Germany that would likely be filled with a significant number of Germans. Turkey usually have a few Germany-born players in their squads, don't they, as there's a significant Turkish diaspora in Germany, but they've not qualified this year. I might have trawled through the squads a bit further if I'd had a bit of time to pass and thought the claim might actually be accurate, but I think Richardson must have been mistaken. I just can't see how there'd be 18 players from Germany playing in this World Cup for teams other than Germany. Maybe he'd meant to say 8...

[A N Mouse]

Why? They've actually made it harder for themselves, joining the Asian Federation...

Surely they've made it easier. Now competing for one of four guaranteed places, instead of playoff spot

[NeverFeltBetter]

Nani hits the post and then Eder forces Howard into a fantastic hopping save. Game livened up on the Portuguese end in the last few minutes.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Surely they've made it easier. Now competing for one of four guaranteed places, instead of playoff spot

The more consistent qualification would indicate it is easier.

[Stuttgart88]

Ronaldo makes absolutely nothing of a tough, late bodycheck by Jeff Cameron. Mark Lawrenson: Ronnie makes the most of that. Adds a pike as well.

[Stuttgart88]

I was having a brief look earlier but I just couldn't see any team other than Germany that would likely be filled with a significant number of Germans. Turkey usually have a few Germany-born players in their squads, don't they, as there's a significant Turkish diaspora in Germany, but they've not qualified this year. I might have trawled through the squads a bit further if I'd had a bit of time to pass and thought the claim might actually be accurate, but I think Richardson must have been mistaken. I just can't see how there'd be 18 players from Germany playing in this World Cup for teams other than Germany. Maybe he'd meant to say 8...a commentator said yesterday that Germany had huge support in Brazil, as there's a large 2G German population. There's even a town called Novo Hamburgo.

I can't think of why Germans would have emigrated to South America 70 years ago myself.

[pineapple stu]

Following the leader?

[DannyInvincible]

Surely they've made it easier. Now competing for one of four guaranteed places, instead of playoff spot

The Asian confederation is undoubtedly more competitive than Oceania, but, as you highlight, they're now competing for a greater number of qualification spots rather than a single cross-confederation play-off spot (and then having to come through that too), so it enhances their chances of qualifying in the overall run of things.

[Razors left peg]

Nerves are shot to bits watching this. Nani is the most frustrating player in the world to watch, he constantly gives the ball away but then can score from anywhere. US playing well but Im hoping Ronaldo can catch them on the break as they push forward more in the 2nd half

[NeverFeltBetter]

Ronaldo makes absolutely nothing of a tough, late bodycheck by Jeff Cameron. Mark Lawrenson: Ronnie makes the most of that. Adds a pike as well.

Lawrenson is the absolute worst of the old breed of commentator. I've seen him dismiss the most awful challenges with those dreaded "he made the most out of that". Things were better in his day. 1907 or so.

[BonnieShels]

I was at a kids birthday party today (my son was invited, I didn't just turn up) and the parents were Australian. I got talking to the dad and I said that they had played well in the World Cup. He said something like "I heard that but I was away. How did we do?".

Thanks for the clarification. :P

I've had Canadians ask whether Canada have done well. Or how Ireland are doing. I had a Canadian bet me a beer last night that Ireland were at the 2010 World Cup. I had someone query that if England are out why are they playing next week again.


Why? They've actually made it harder for themselves, joining the Asian Federation...

It's actually the opposite. They qualified for only 2 world Cups from Oceania ever. And the last one was 2006 just before they moved to the AFC. They have since easily qualified for 2010 and 2014. They will continue to qualify from the AFC with ease.


The answer will be on Wikipedia if anyone's assed to trawl through 32 squads and the best part of 650 names?

I nominate Nigel or Tricky.

[DannyInvincible]

a commentator said yesterday that Germany had huge support in Brazil, as there's a large 2G German population.

I think Gisele Bündchen is probably one of the most famous pop culture examples of a Brazilian of German descent. Former manager Dunga happens to be another.

[BonnieShels]

a commentator said yesterday that Germany had huge support in Brazil, as there's a large 2G German population. There's even a town called Novo Hamburgo.

I can't think of why Germans would have emigrated to South America 70 years ago myself.


Following the leader?

Das wagen phones ist ein nuisance phone.

[DannyInvincible]

Or maybe I'm biased because of my opinion of their fanbase, who I find insufferable.

American football culture all seems very artificial. All footballing cultures obviously have to find their roots and influences somewhere, but there's just something about the American one that seems really manufactured. It probably doesn't help that their clubs are franchises. I thought this example of cultural appropriation by an American supporters' club was amusing: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27668750

You might enjoy this: http://northernladsclub.wordpress.com/2014/06/17/the-wall-street-hooligans-and-the-artificiality-of-american-football-culture/

It was written by a pretty interesting guy I happened to meet and converse with after a night out a while back on the nature of football support amongst other things.

[Stuttgart88]

I think Gisele Bündchen is probably one of the most famous pop culture examples of a Brazilian of German descent. Former manager Dunga happens to be another.

Yeah, but explain Wanderley Luxemburgo.

[pineapple stu]

American football culture all seems very artificial. All footballing cultures obviously have to find their roots and influences somewhere, but there's just something about the American one that seems really manufactured. It probably doesn't help that their clubs are franchises.
It's the way they talk about the game that's weirdest. Even the American emphasis on stats that just sounds wrong here.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Surely they've made it easier. Now competing for one of four guaranteed places, instead of playoff spot

Yes, but the 'top' teams are generally much better, at least in theory, and there's far far more travelling involved. Though can understand your logic.
Also if this was the case, why don't Turkey and some of the former Russian republics which are actually in Asia join them...and even in theory, er, Israel....

[pineapple stu]

Israel can't really play in Asia given the amount of teams that refuse to play them (that's why they left in the place)

Most of the Russian republics that are actually in Asia feel European, given they were part of a European country for decades (certainly pretty much their entire footballing existence). Ditto Turkey, I think.

Obviously it helps that the money in UEFA is far, far more.

[ArdeeBhoy]

a commentator said yesterday that Germany had huge support in Brazil, as there's a large 2G German population. There's even a town called Novo Hamburgo.

I can't think of why Germans would have emigrated to South America 70 years ago myself.
You are being ironic?

Loads of relatively recent arrivals in S.America, also of Italian, Portuguese and Spanish descent, the latter two based on colonial ties and a common language.
Not to forget the Japanese in Peru and Brazil...plus the Welsh in Patagonia!!!

[BonnieShels]

Yeah, but explain Wanderley Luxemburgo.


He was a bit of a wagen.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Israel can't really play in Asia given the amount of teams that refuse to play them (that's why they left in the place)

Most of the Russian republics that are actually in Asia feel European, given they were part of a European country for decades (certainly pretty much their entire footballing existence). Ditto Turkey, I think.

Obviously it helps that the money in UEFA is far, far more.

Agreed, but far far harder for them to qualify for Finals too...

Besides Israel, Turkey's is more political as they always wanted join NATO(!) and the EU. Personally, in both cases along with UEFA feel there should be more rigid geographic constraints...though not just them.

[Stuttgart88]

Nothing artificial about that goal.