2014 World Cup

[Razors left peg]

Apparently Claudio Ranieri is going to be the new Greece manager after the World cup. They have missed a trick big time... Trap and Greece would be a match made in heaven!!!!

[geysir]

What tradition is that?
Italy don't repeat the result of the first game. in the second game of the group.
So. tradition tells us there is going to be a different result in the 2nd game, which if tradition holds the line, is more likely to be a draw than a loss.
That's why I say "tradition tells us that Italy are likely to draw"

[geysir]

Apparently Claudio Ranieri is going to be the new Greece manager after the World cup. They have missed a trick big time... Trap and Greece would be a match made in heaven!!!!
Trap and Algeria would be a 7th heaven for Trap.

[Stuttgart88]

I reckon Trap had, eh, high blood flow to his loins watching the first hour of Algeria v Belgium. It was Trap heaven.

[pineapple stu]

Italy don't repeat the result of the first game. in the second game of the group.
So. tradition tells us there is going to be a different result in the 2nd game, which if tradition holds the line, is more likely to be a draw than a loss.
That's why I say "tradition tells us that Italy are likely to draw"

So it's not a tradition at all so? Gotcha.

(Just while you're being pointlessly patronising)

[BonnieShels]

This is brutal.

[geysir]

So it's not a tradition at all so? Gotcha.

(Just while you're being pointlessly patronising)
Maybe I have missed something,
you asked me to explain something I wrote, then you say I'm being pointlessly patronising when I explain my point?
Usually people say thanks when someone goes to the bother of explaining a point they have a question about, but you appear to be needlessly rude.

[geysir]

This is brutal.
That's generally how other non Irish football fans feel about watching Ireland at Final competitions on their tv.
Maybe one or two exceptions for some periods in a game.

[BonnieShels]

That's generally how other non Irish football fans feel about watching Ireland at Final competitions on their tv.
Maybe one or two exceptions for some periods in a game.

They are not of my concern.

The lucky thing for them it's usually once or so a decade that they get to see us. This Greek team just won't die.


http://youtu.be/53szBDUt7kM?t=1m30s

[Stuttgart88]

That's generally how other non Irish football fans feel about watching Ireland at Final competitions on their tv.
Maybe one or two exceptions for some periods in a game.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. No objective analysis of WC90 can throw up any other conclusion that we were turgid, uninspiring, unadventurous, lucky and utterly one dimensional. Yet in our eyes it was the greatest month in our country's history

[Closed Account 2]

That was a Trap masterclass from 10 man Greece.

[DeLorean]

I see what you're getting at. But say if Paraguay had gotten through that game and faced Germany in the semi- and then the Germans won the final against the Dutch we would be talking about this "great" German team.
History is written by the winners of course, but I feel that that's why Spain get oversold as "great".

Yeah history can hinge on small details but the fact is that Spain dug deep and beat Paraguay, another quality of great champions. I would have thought that winning three major tournaments in a row is great in any man's language really, regardless of preferences. Given most of the players were also dominating the club scene just reinforced their greatness. If winning, winning and more winning doesn't constitute greatness then what does? The argument that they'd no Plan B only emphasises how incredibly adequate their Plan A was, for the bones of six years at least. Anyway, agree to differ I guess :)

Did anybody see 'Cesc's Story of Spain' on Sky Sports recently? Well worth a watch if it's on again. Apparently this goal was the start of the tika-taka in a crucial Euro qualifier in Copenhagen. It shows the full build up on the programme itself but this was the best I could find.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJH1f_U-ezM

[BonnieShels]

There's ways and means to dissect either opinions. Sure winning 3 tournaments in a row is great but again it all hinges on the tiny decisions, on the missed calls.

Barca are a prime example of that. Would you rather have that Zidane and Ronaldo and Figo RM or that Barca team of Busquets and Pedro and Messi?

I feel that the 6 years were a nadir. And I'm happy it's over. My football mind doesn't find it beautiful. Like my apparent irrational HATRED for Brazil and my adoration for Uruguay and Argentina. I don't feel it. As objective as I can be it's tough going. I'll give them Euro2012. They were amazing, if boring.

---

Gerrard- "We've conceded goals and we have to defend better as a team."

Hmmmmmmm... How about you don't give the ball away or head the ball to Suarez?

[DeLorean]

As much as I agree that England would have been stronger defensively with Terry and Cole in the side, I think Eamo has completely forgotten that they were both present in 2010 for the Germany mauling, and much closer their prime if not actually in it. The way Dunphy has been carrying on you'd swear a goal has never been conceded with JT on the pitch.

[osarusan]

F**king hate Greece.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm very disappointed in Japan. I had tipped them to top the group but they have been tactically poor in both games - not sure if it's down to the coach or the players playing within themselves. They haven't played their quick-passing, high-tempo game at all over the 180 minutes and I can't see them beating Colombia, which is what they'll need at a minimum.

[DeLorean]

Would you rather have that Zidane and Ronaldo and Figo RM or that Barca team of Busquets and Pedro and Messi?

I'm not sure where you're going with that.. It's not even like for like. Busquets would be more comparable to Makelele and Pedro maybe somebody like, I don't know, Solari? Anyway, I wouldn't have the same gra for Barca that I do for Spain for some reason, but I would consider their recent clan to have been a great club side, as was the Madrid side from the early 2000's, although I thought Figo was grossly overrated.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm not sure where you're going with that.. It's not even like for like. Busquets would be more comparable to Makelele and Pedro maybe somebody like, I don't know, Solari? Anyway, I wouldn't have the same gra for Barca that I do for Spain for some reason, but I would consider their recent clan to have been a great club side, as was the Madrid side from the early 2000's, although I thought Figo was grossly overrated.
Henry, Messi and Eto'o would be a more comparable comparison to Zidane, Figo and Ronaldo. I'd still choose Real but it's close.

[DeLorean]

Depends what BS meant, I've never heard the Barca side being mentioned as the team with Messi, Busquets and Pedro. Messi, Xavi and Iniesta has become such a Holy Trinity that sometimes one could forget that they have other players.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm assuming he meant in terms of attacking flair, implying that Barca were less about individual brilliance and more about wearing teams down, but I think those players plus Larsson, Villa, Ibrahimovic even, show Guardiola's Barcelona had plenty of flair outside Messi too. Even though Ibrahimovic didn't fit in.

[DeLorean]

I'm assuming he meant in terms of attacking flair

Well I think Busquets' miss last night pretty much summed him up in terms of attacking flair. I wouldn't have wagered much on Makelele scoring it either though.

[Charlie Darwin]

I wouldn't associate flair with that miss at all, it was just the fact he's not used to being in that situation and for whatever reason he didn't have the composure to do it. If that was a pass flying at him in midfield you'd think he'd be able to put it wherever he wanted on the field.

[CraftyToePoke]

I was in a pub and could hear no commentary. Was it Gerrard who got the flick on for Suarez' winner?

Yeah, it was. Gerrard flicks on for Suarez thus negating the latter being three yards off. I think he might have given it away in the lead up their first also. Ouch.

[Crosby87]

Ha. I still dont get it. Gerard gave suarez the ball?

[CraftyToePoke]

Ha. I still dont get it. Gerard gave suarez the ball?

So I believe Crosby, so I believe. And with a backward head pass, no less.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ha. I still dont get it. Gerard gave suarez the ball?
He was trying to head it clear but he got under the ball and accidentally headed it on for Suarez to run in.

[BonnieShels]

As much as I agree that England would have been stronger defensively with Terry and Cole in the side, I think Eamo has completely forgotten that they were both present in 2010 for the Germany mauling, and much closer their prime if not actually in it. The way Dunphy has been carrying on you'd swear a goal has never been conceded with JT on the pitch.

England were gonna get trounced that day if Paul McGrath and Lilian Thuram were in defence. It had "one of those days" written all over it.


I'm not sure where you're going with that.. It's not even like for like. Busquets would be more comparable to Makelele and Pedro maybe somebody like, I don't know, Solari? Anyway, I wouldn't have the same gra for Barca that I do for Spain for some reason, but I would consider their recent clan to have been a great club side, as was the Madrid side from the early 2000's, although I thought Figo was grossly overrated.

I honestly wasn't doing a like-for-like comparisoon. But it is one of the things about Barca that they have such dislikeable squad members like Busquets and Pedro that make them so hard to like even before you get into a discussion about the way they play.


Henry, Messi and Eto'o would be a more comparable comparison to Zidane, Figo and Ronaldo. I'd still choose Real but it's close.


Depends what BS meant, I've never heard the Barca side being mentioned as the team with Messi, Busquets and Pedro. Messi, Xavi and Iniesta has become such a Holy Trinity that sometimes one could forget that they have other players.

As above.


I'm assuming he meant in terms of attacking flair, implying that Barca were less about individual brilliance and more about wearing teams down, but I think those players plus Larsson, Villa, Ibrahimovic even, show Guardiola's Barcelona had plenty of flair outside Messi too. Even though Ibrahimovic didn't fit in.

I wasn't being altogether serious using those examples but you do have a point about team flair.

But there are things like the sponsorship scenario and the battering of "Mes que un club" down the throat of European soccer fans that also makes me dislike them. I also have a contrary streak in me which you may or may not have noticed.

[BonnieShels]

Yeah, it was. Gerrard flicks on for Suarez thus negating the latter being three yards off. I think he might have given it away in the lead up their first also. Ouch.

He did. Which made his comments to ITV at the end more laughable.

[Crosby87]

I think I finally get it.
Things are finally heating up. Anyone pm me betting for Friday?

[Charlie Darwin]

England were gonna get trounced that day if Paul McGrath and Lilian Thuram were in defence. It had "one of those days" written all over it.



I honestly wasn't doing a like-for-like comparisoon. But it is one of the things about Barca that they have such dislikeable squad members like Busquets and Pedro that make them so hard to like even before you get into a discussion about the way they play.





As above.



I wasn't being altogether serious using those examples but you do have a point about team flair.

But there are things like the sponsorship scenario and the battering of "Mes que un club" down the throat of European soccer fans that also makes me dislike them. I also have a contrary streak in me which you may or may not have noticed.
What's to dislike about Pedro? Apart from looking like a middle-aged shoe salesman, he's a limited enough player who has made it at a big club because he works harder and is more disciplined than most, and he scores goals. I'd have a lot of time for him.

[osarusan]

I think the problem with Barcelona is that, although really are just like any other football team, they sometimes get portrayed as pure, noble artisans of football, by some fairly gullible people.

I say that as somebody who loved their style and was saddened by their decline.

[BonnieShels]

What's to dislike about Pedro? Apart from looking like a middle-aged shoe salesman, he's a limited enough player who has made it at a big club because he works harder and is more disciplined than most, and he scores goals. I'd have a lot of time for him.

I hate him. Like really truly. There is no real sense to the urge to kick his teeth in I feel when I see his mug.

Maybe that Quebecer last week was right, I should let go of the anger!


I think the problem with Barcelona is that, although really are just like any other football team, they sometimes get portrayed as pure, noble artisans of football, by some fairly gullible people.



Yay eloquence! Thank you!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Karma...in different forms.


https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10309636_540834202693692_5943853735371540384_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10325506_540856482691464_2941779622625868658_n.jpg

[DeLorean]

I wouldn't associate flair with that miss at all, it was just the fact he's not used to being in that situation and for whatever reason he didn't have the composure to do it. If that was a pass flying at him in midfield you'd think he'd be able to put it wherever he wanted on the field.

It wasn't just flair though, it was attacking flair. I'd expect a guy who excels in the attacking flair department to put that one away. He was seemingly being compared to Zidane, Figo and Ronaldo at the time after all. I was just loosely making the point that that's not really his function in the side.

[Stuttgart88]

Is that 2 WCs in a row that England gave conceded directly from a goal kick? Klose got the opener straight from a goal kick in 2010 I think. That's pretty pathetic. I'm not sure I've ever seen it happen in any other game, ever. And I'm watching footy for 38 years.


Sorry, just saw replay. It was a punt from hands, not a goal kick. Doesn't diminish the enjoyment though.

[geysir]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. No objective analysis of WC90 can throw up any other conclusion that we were turgid, uninspiring, unadventurous, lucky and utterly one dimensional. Yet in our eyes it was the greatest month in our country's history
Exactly and for every team at these Finals there are the travelling fans, the fans at home and usually a world cup fever. There isn't any bigger collective show on the planet.
The same consideration applies to Greece as to us and even if their game last night with Japan did not meet standards of other teams, one goal from either would have transformed a country's mood. If only we had a midfielder like Karagounis for the past 12 years. As long as teams have a viable chance of going through, there is that magic world cup thing alive in the game, football quality is only one of the ingredients.

Another game denigrated, Iran v Nigeria, was actually played in a brilliant atmosphere and it was something to see how a very disciplined Iran were organised to survive.

[Stuttgart88]

Neil Lennon made a good point after that game. It may have been boring for us but try telling that to Iran. They worked hard to get what they wanted. Fair play to them.

[OwlsFan]

As much as I agree that England would have been stronger defensively with Terry and Cole in the side, I think Eamo has completely forgotten that they were both present in 2010 for the Germany mauling, and much closer their prime if not actually in it. The way Dunphy has been carrying on you'd swear a goal has never been conceded with JT on the pitch.

It's vintage Dunphy. Attack the manager by talking up those not in the team. If England had lost with Terry and Cole in the team, it would have been how could the manager not have played the in form Baines and Jagielka. C'est la panel.

England were beaten by Trap tactics. Harry and hoof, except Uruguay have a world class centre forward. England dominated possession and if the Rooney of old had been on song, England would have won it. Hopefully, Italy win tonight so we have an exciting last round of games.

[geysir]

I think the problem with Barcelona is that, although really are just like any other football team, they sometimes get portrayed as pure, noble artisans of football, by some fairly gullible people.

I say that as somebody who loved their style and was saddened by their decline.
That isn't a problem with Barca, that's an issue with some ott perceptions,
the problem is then with the reaction to those ott perceptions, usually marked by irrational dislikes, reactionary rants, lumping every body who appreciate Spanish football into the same mindless sheep box and who read the Guardian (as if that was an insult).

Most supporters think their club is something special, that's a universal phenomenon and when they actually do something special it demands appreciation in the wider world, that appreciation is earned. Reactionaries just react.

[bennocelt]

Well Benno, if you ask the question 'am I talking rubbish when ......? ' the default answer is usually yes, but if it's a betting question then that's a different matter.

Ouch that hurt:p

[Stuttgart88]

England were beaten by Trap tactics. Harry and hoof, except Uruguay have a world class centre forward. England dominated possession and if the Rooney of old had been on song, England would have won it. Hopefully, Italy win tonight so we have an exciting last round of games.
I don't really agree with that. Since when did Trap encourage harrying? We stood off the ball and rarely put pressure on the opponent.

I think Uruguay closed down players very well, often by foul means it has to be said. But they used the ball pretty well when they had it, much less hoofing than you seemed to think was their main weapon. I do agree that England could just as easily have won that game as lost it. The difference was in the taking of chances and loss of concentration for a routine long punt. Suarez was clinical (2 out of 2), Rooney less so (1 out of 3, not including his direct free kick).

Cavani was wasteful too it has to be said. His miss when one on one with Hart was poor. No hoof in sight though. Both teams had other half chances.

I'd like England out, end of. It'll still be exciting to see if Uruguay or Costa Rica gets second, or if it's a draw today Italy may still even go out.

[Crosby87]

Ok chaps who do you like today?

[Razors left peg]

Really looking forward to seeing both Italy and France today to see if they can both follow up good performances in opening round. I fancy France to go a long way in this tournament

[BonnieShels]

I'd like England out, end of. It'll still be exciting to see if Uruguay or Costa Rica gets second, or if it's a draw today Italy may still even go out.

I want England out. But I want Italy to win. Gah.



Ok chaps who do you like today?

Pirlo of course.

[Crosby87]

You are obsessed with pirlo my friend. I will take the french fries based on peggy.

[BonnieShels]

I'm not the only one.

SkStu...

[BonnieShels]

The choice of Alkin or Savage has made me switch to CBC. Jaypers.

[pineapple stu]

Costa Rica 1-0 Italy.

What a gloriously amazing World Cup!

[Razors left peg]

Costa Rica 1-0 Italy.

What a gloriously amazing World Cup!

Its the best World cup in my memory anyway, its been fantastic so far

[ArdeeBhoy]

A way to go in that game, and the tournament overall, but some decent stuff to date.