2014 World Cup

[Crosby87]

Maybe he means Colombians eat Chili?

[DeLorean]

Spain trundled and ruthlessly passed their way to the final. Remember their performance against Paraguay? Spain were blessed in that game. For a great side it was odd that any "great" performances were kept for the Euros. Against teams I suppose they knew and players they were used to.

Not sure what your point is here. They only had three games against non-European opposition, beating Honduras comfortably and I felt they managed that high pressure game against Chile pretty well. Yeah, they rode their luck against Paraguay, very few teams win anything without one of those games. They still stuck to their philosophy and eventually got their reward. The complete domination of an excellent German team in the semi final is somehow diluted because they're European?


Shows what a decent coach and some organisation will do, Imagine, Ron Vlaar could have a WC medal... Cruyff won't.

Well yeah, that was my point. It's not really taking a whole pile to succeed because the standard isn't great. A bit like that Greece side you were repulsed by doing well with similar organisational capabilities, although I'm not convinced the Dutch are even that organised, Australia should have scored a couple more at least.


At the outset of tournaments I generally want to see Germany, Netherlands, Italy and Argentina do well or win.

So I don't think I'll be too disappointed for once.

Fair enough but you kind of remind me of a Fianna Fail supporter that will stick with them regardless. :) I loved the Dutch side that had Van Basten & Co but I'm not going to like the current crop on the back of what once was. Same with Brazil. I feel that it would be bad for Brazilian football, and by extension football everywhere, if they are successful with their current brand. If the likes of themselves and the Dutch don't fly the flag for inventive, glamorous football then things are hitting a serious downer I feel.

[OwlsFan]

But it's Italy. Get them outta the group and they become a different beast. As 2006 (the greatest ever WC) showed that when they get on a roll and they have belief in the side there is nothing to stop them.

2006 best WC ever? I think too many games were decided on the penalty shoot outs (the Final included) to be regarded as the best ever ? I am hard pressed to recall any classic game except perhaps France vs Spain.

I usually support Germany is these tournaments because they're usually the team hated by everyone else, especially our friends across the water. Glad to see you have time for them. Usually don't like Italy because as a WC Watcher of a certain vintage, their play used to be based on defence with scoring goals a secondary thought.

[DeLorean]

The semi between Germany and Italy was by a mile the best of that tournament, and in my opinion one of the best ever.

[Razors left peg]

My prediction for the England Uruguay game later is that England will win, Rooney will score and make everyone think he is "World Class" again for the 5 minutes until the next game, and that Suarez will do something controversial that he will use to force a move to Spain saying that the English media are forcing him out.

[BonnieShels]

It was a thrilling game with plenty of bite and just goes to show that the boring part of tikka taka were the parked busses.

Not always. Some parked buses can be entertaining. Tikki Takka was brutal to watch in all of it's guises I felt. I find more joy out of defensive discipline coupled with quick countering. That's just me however.


Not sure what your point is here. They only had three games against non-European opposition, beating Honduras comfortably and I felt they managed that high pressure game against Chile pretty well. Yeah, they rode their luck against Paraguay, very few teams win anything without one of those games. They still stuck to their philosophy and eventually got their reward. The complete domination of an excellent German team in the semi final is somehow diluted because they're European?

I see what you're getting at. But say if Paraguay had gotten through that game and faced Germany in the semi- and then the Germans won the final against the Dutch we would be talking about this "great" German team.
History is written by the winners of course, but I feel that that's why Spain get oversold as "great".

They won 3 tournaments on the trot, they were very impressive in Euro2012 and I think that was their greatest moment. But that WC was not as glorious or as wonderful a victory I think that some people remember it to be.

It really is a six-of-one conversation. I dislike their style of play. You liked it. So of course our opinions will be poles apart. But there's merit in all arguments.

I just feel that a truly great side when they come up against a team who nullify their plan-A should have a plan-B and -C etc.

Spain had that one miserable style and that was it.


Well yeah, that was my point. It's not really taking a whole pile to succeed because the standard isn't great. A bit like that Greece side you were repulsed by doing well with similar organisational capabilities, although I'm not convinced the Dutch are even that organised, Australia should have scored a couple more at least.


Most of my repulsion for the Greek side was that it was Greece. Nothing to really do with their "puke" football. There was merit in their approach.

As came up in the WC final 2010 and that infamous Chelsea-Barca Semi-; you play to your strengths. And that's what Greece did. If they got knocked out in the second round we wouldn't even blink about that side.



Fair enough but you kind of remind me of a Fianna Fail supporter that will stick with them regardless. :) I loved the Dutch side that had Van Basten & Co but I'm not going to like the current crop on the back of what once was. Same with Brazil. I feel that it would be bad for Brazilian football, and by extension football everywhere, if they are successful with their current brand. If the likes of themselves and the Dutch don't fly the flag for inventive, glamorous football then things are hitting a serious downer I feel.

Well... hmmmm... No.

I loved those Dutch sides too. And the Euro 2000 vintage was glorious too and the one I adored. But the Dutch were impressive in qualifying and to annihilate the "great" Spaniards in the fashion they did was glorious. That was beautiful football. That that side has De Jong in it as an enforcer is not a bad thing. I like that teams don't have 11 Iniestas or 11 Souness'. It takes all sorts. And De Jong was an integral cog in that destruction last Friday.


2006 best WC ever? I think too many games were decided on the penalty shoot outs (the Final included) to be regarded as the best ever ? I am hard pressed to recall any classic game except perhaps France vs Spain.

From start to finish that WC kept be fixated. Game after game of twists and turns and ups and downs.

In the groups we had: ARG-NED, ARG-SRB, POR-MEX, ITA-GHA, ITA-USA, GHA-USA, CRO-BRA
Knock-out: ARG-MEX, ITA-AUS, POR-NED, SPA-FRA, BRA-FRA, ENG-POR, ARG-GER, GER-ITA, ITA-FRA...

As Delorean says that semi was one of the greatest world cup games. But the QF between ARG and GER was cracking too. ITA-AUS was unbelievable in how it panned out. BRA-FRa was a classic in the old-school WC mode and then there's the ARG-SRB demolition... how can you forget this...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5W6vBI3mGE&feature=kp


I usually support Germany is these tournaments because they're usually the team hated by everyone else, especially our friends across the water. Glad to see you have time for them. Usually don't like Italy because as a WC Watcher of a certain vintage, their play used to be based on defence with scoring goals a secondary thought.

I love Germany. Always have. This current German side are devastating.
In saying that I do have a love for Italy too. Which has weathered some of the miserable and dour performances over the years.


The semi between Germany and Italy was by a mile the best of that tournament, and in my opinion one of the best ever.

True dat. True dat.



---

To get back to today. I was already enjoying this game but my god this is some second half. Colombia are a joy to watch.

[geysir]

My prediction for the England Uruguay game later is that England will win, Rooney will score and make everyone think he is "World Class" again for the 5 minutes until the next game, and that Suarez will do something controversial that he will use to force a move to Spain saying that the English media are forcing him out.
If Suarez does something controversial that contributes to England losing, he'll be stripped of all accolades won by him, before his departure.

I tipped Colombia to make a shock exit from their group, now with a few minutes to go it looks to be a shocking tip.

[Razors left peg]

Colombia are one of my favorite teams to watch in this WC. James Rodriguez is an absolutely fantastic player

[BonnieShels]

They're a super watch. Really want them to go on from here.

[Crosby87]

I agree with Razor. England wake up and win one today.

[BonnieShels]

I agree with Razor. England wake up and win one today.

I certainly hope not

[Charlie Darwin]

Darron Gibson ‏@D_gibson4 (https://twitter.com/D_gibson4) 11m (https://twitter.com/D_gibson4/status/479698748659208193) More


Come on England!!!!!!!

[Charlie Darwin]

What an incredible goal.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Excellent awareness from Cavani, expertly timed run from Suarez with Lodeiro providing the creativity that England are so sorely lacking. Caceres and Alvaro Gonzalez providing more end product down the right flank. Godin very lucky not to be sent off though and England unlucky with a couple of decisions.

Can't understand why Gerrard and Henderson are playing.

[BonnieShels]

Johnson is woeful.

[Charlie Darwin]

England have real problems down the flanks. Welbeck and Sterling aren't going to do much defending, Johnson isn't good and Baines looks a bit lost.

[Crosby87]

Uruguay let them hang around....

[Razors left peg]

Uruguay let them hang around....

Yep England should have been buried by now

[Crosby87]

I started rooting against Uruguay bc the whole team does that thing where they pretend to be in dire pain with any tap. Worst ive seen in the wc so far. I hate that sh!t.

[Charlie Darwin]

I started rooting against Uruguay bc the whole team does that thing where they pretend to be in dire pain with any tap. Worst ive seen in the wc so far. I hate that sh!t.
You must have missed Spain-Chile.

[Crosby87]

I think uruguay is worse!
Sometimes the off sides thing makes no sense to me. What is the actual rule, that you can start going when it comes off the guys foot? Like why isnt saurez offsides there if he was in front of the defender and the ball wasnt there yet? To someone that doesnt know much about this sport it seems inconsistant to me. And everyone I work with.

[NeverFeltBetter]

England are really poor. Defensively they couldn't Suarez, midfield duo if Gerrard and Henderson look slow and creaky, and the forward line was all pace and little else. And "redemption for Wayne Rooney" says Hamilton, give me a break. It was a tap in created entirely by Johnson.

[BonnieShels]

Excellent awareness from Cavani, expertly timed run from Suarez with Lodeiro providing the creativity that England are so sorely lacking. Caceres and Alvaro Gonzalez providing more end product down the right flank. Godin very lucky not to be sent off though and England unlucky with a couple of decisions.

Can't understand why Gerrard and Henderson are playing.

Completely agree with you. This may be a first.

Gerrard is **** poor. Absolutely positively not good enough for that role.


What is the actual rule, that you can start going when it comes off the guys foot? Like why isnt saurez offsides there if he was in front of the defender and the ball wasnt there yet? To someone that doesnt know much about this sport it seems inconsistant to me. And everyone I work with.

I admire your honesty. Gerrard hit the last ball back to Suarez; couldn't be offside then.

EDIT: Suarez was onside when Muslera kicked it out. He played the percentages. Stunning player. And not fit apparently. :)


England are really poor. Defensively they couldn't Suarez, midfield duo if Gerrard and Henderson look slow and creaky, and the forward line was all pace and little else. And "redemption for Wayne Rooney" says Hamilton, give me a break. It was a tap in created entirely by Johnson.

They were shown up completely, though I feel like we say this every 2 years. But they had nothing for Uruguay. Absolutely nothing.
Tactical masterclass from Tabarez.

Hart was poor for Suarez's second. Went down way too early. Muslera was brilliant.

[Razors left peg]

Steven Gerrard has to be the most over rated player Ive ever seen. Hes a decent player but hes a million miles away from World class midfield general hes made out to be.

I think Benitez was the only manager to play him in his proper position of just off the striker when he played behind Torres. In midfield he flies into the odd big tackle and has the Hollywood pass but he is very poor defensively and his ego gets in the way too often.

[BonnieShels]

Steven Gerrard has to be the most over rated player Ive ever seen. Hes a decent player but hes a million miles away from World class midfield general hes made out to be.

I think Benitez was the only manager to play him in his proper position of just off the striker when he played behind Torres. In midfield he flies into the odd big tackle and has the Hollywood pass but he is very poor defensively and his ego gets in the way too often.

But it's not like it's not obvious at all. I still can't figure it out.

There's of course the odd strike from outside the box don't forget which galvanises the "legend". He was poor tonight. Along with many others. But they aren't the captain, leader, legend.

[Razors left peg]

But it's not like it's not obvious at all. I still can't figure it out.

There's of course the odd strike from outside the box don't forget which galvanises the "legend". He was poor tonight. Along with many others. But they aren't the captain, leader, legend.

Its bugged me for years. There is an obsession with him

[BonnieShels]

Its bugged me for years. There is an obsession with him

As much as I hate him. Terry at least played a leaders role and has positioning of a laser.

[Charlie Darwin]

But it's not like it's not obvious at all. I still can't figure it out.
It's quite simple. Steven Gerrard wants to play in centre midfield so that's where he'll play, even when it's clearly not to the benefit of the team. Rafa was the only coach with the cojones/tactical ability to tell him where to play.

[bennocelt]

Would I be talking rubbish if i said I think England still have an outside chance?:p

[geysir]

Would I be talking rubbish if i said I think England still have an outside chance?:p

Well Benno, if you ask the question 'am I talking rubbish when ......? ' the default answer is usually yes, but if it's a betting question then that's a different matter.

[pineapple stu]

Would I be talking rubbish if i said I think England still have an outside chance?:p
"All" that needs to happen is -

Italy to beat Costa Rica (likely)
Italy to beat Uruguay (quite possible)
England to beat Costa Rica (hmm)
And then rely on goal difference.

There's no penalty shoot-out in there, so yeah, it's possible

[cavan_fan]

Would I be talking rubbish if i said I think England still have an outside chance?:p

I think they are bizarrely almost favourites.
Italy should beat Costa Rica pretty easily.
Given Italy will still need a result I think the most likely result in Ita-Uru is an Italy win


This would almost certainly mean England would qualify with a win against Costa Rica. Theyd have taken that at the beginning.

However can there ever have been a more embarassing qualification than going through with 2 wins and a win against Costa Rica!

[cavan_fan]

9/1 England to qualify which is not a bad bet

[Razors left peg]

If Italy beat Costa Rica tomorrow they would be through so I would expect Uruguay with Suarez in the team to get at least a draw against them. I think England are not nailed on to beat Costa Rica either

[pineapple stu]

I think they are bizarrely almost favourites.
Italy should beat Costa Rica pretty easily.
Given Italy will still need a result I think the most likely result in Ita-Uru is an Italy win
That'd mean Italy and Uruguay can (not necessarily will!) play out a draw, and both qualify. Not a nice position for England to be in, when their qualification comes down to two other teams not agreeing a draw.

[cavan_fan]

They wont be through, theyll have 6 points and Uruguay and Costa Rica will have 3 so they could all finish on 6 and then goal difference.

[cavan_fan]

That'd mean Italy and Uruguay can (not necessarily will!) play out a draw, and both qualify. Not a nice position for England to be in, when their qualification comes down to two other teams not agreeing a draw.

I know im getting geeky here but that would work for Italy not Uruguay who would go out with a draw and a win (or possibly draw) for Costa Rica.

Thanks to Austria/Germany they wont know what they need

[pineapple stu]

Could be right actually; I keep forgetting Costa Rica are on three points.

I still wouldn't go quite as far as to say England are favourites to go through though!

[cavan_fan]

Could be right actually; I keep forgetting Costa Rica are on three points.

I still wouldn't go quite as far as to say England are favourites to go through though!


Not bad at 9/1 though.
Thinking about it the worst thing England could do would be to go 3-0 up by half time because then Italy and Uruguay could repeat the Mick McCarthy/Ruud Gullit moment from 1990

[pineapple stu]

Anyone else enjoying the UEFA article feeds on here btw? On this day in the European Championships. They're trying really hard to pretend that the World Cup isn't happening.

Anyways, Japan v Greece, eh? This has to be a good game. Surely?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Both really need to win, so I hope so.

[pineapple stu]

Am I hearing the commentary right here? One of the Greek players booked a flight home because he was upset at the quality of the crosses in training?

And he's still starting?

Bloody hell.

[cavan_fan]

Anyone else enjoying the UEFA article feeds on here btw? On this day in the European Championships. They're trying really hard to pretend that the World Cup isn't happening.

Anyways, Japan v Greece, eh? This has to be a good game. Surely?

Am watching on BBC, fair to say its a tough sell to their target audience. 11pm on a Thursday night, Japan against the dullest team in World football and everyone in England has gone off football.

[geysir]

Not bad at 9/1 though.
Thinking about it the worst thing England could do would be to go 3-0 up by half time because then Italy and Uruguay could repeat the Mick McCarthy/Ruud Gullit moment from 1990
Tradition tells us that Italy are likely to draw with Costa Rica. That would leave Uruguay desperate, playing against a composed Italy who will not let Uruguay have a sniff.
Regardless of what CR do against Italy, they would likely only have to get a draw against England to put them in pole position.
I think CR and Italy have to be the favourites to get through.

[pineapple stu]

Tradition tells us that Italy are likely to draw with Costa Rica.
What tradition is that?

[NeverFeltBetter]

A few decent bits of Japanese play is livening this up, but otherwise a little dull. Greece content to stick to a counterattack plan, Japan trying to break them down.

[Stuttgart88]

I was in a pub and could hear no commentary. Was it Gerrard who got the flick on for Suarez' winner? My night has just got better.

Is that 2 WCs in a row that England gave conceded directly from a goal kick? Klose got the opener straight from a goal kick in 2010 I think. That's pretty pathetic. I'm not sure I've ever seen it happen in any other game, ever. And I'm watching footy for 38 years.

I've no issue with Gibson's perspective btw. His teammates are English.

Well, my missus and extended family are English. My kids are probably English. Come on Uruguay!

I still think England might sneak through. A draw tomorrow and they're out, but Italy won't play for that. More realistic is an Italy win and then Italy and Uruguay will concoct something. Uruguay will see what's happening in England v Costa. If England is winning then that game will be a draw.

[pineapple stu]

Greece down to ten men.

Might make this some way interesting.

I say as Greece almost go ahead despite the red.

[BonnieShels]

I was in a pub and could hear no commentary. Easy get Gerrard who got the flick on for Suarez' winner?

Is that 2 WCs in a row that England gave conceded directly from a goal kick? Klose got the opener straight from a goal kick in 2010. I'm not sure I've ever seen it happen in any other game, ever. And I'm watching footy for 38 years.

I've no issue with Gibson's perspective btw. His teammates are English.

Well, my missus and extended family are English. My kids are probably English. Come on Uruguay!

I still think England might sneak through. A draw tomorrow and they're out, but Italy won't play for that. More realistic is an Italy win and then Italy and Uruguay will concoct something. Uruguay will see what's happening in England v Costa. If England is winning then that game will be a draw.

The battle is being lost.

[Stuttgart88]

Nah, they know what's good for them really.