Debate - Future of Youth Development in Irish Football

[Stuttgart88]

I came across this on ybig.ie. Looks interesting and I'm going to go along.

Tomorrow night, Bloomsbury area of London.

http://www.sportbusinesscentre.com/news/2012-12-03

Edit - Sorry, just saw the announcement on foot.ie above.

[Paddy Garcia]

I'll be in town tomorrow night for a beer .......don't think I can make it.

Stutts - please ensure firm plans are put in place to produce the talent to win the 2022 and 2026 World Cups - or just one of them if you feel that's too much of an ask.

[geysir]

It's difficult to organize flights in time and my room at the Dorchester isn't available, otherwise ??
It looks like it will be a good discussion, just as long as they don't actually want "to blind Irish talent to the wider possibilities".
Good luck with it.

[Paddy Garcia]

I came across this on ybig.ie. Looks interesting and I'm going to go along.

Tomorrow night, Bloomsbury area of London.

http://www.sportbusinesscentre.com/news/2012-12-03

Edit - Sorry, just saw the announcement on foot.ie above.

Is the future green?

[TheBoss]

A bit ironic, that it is not in Ireland :D

[Stuttgart88]

It was a good event. The speakers were very impressive and Niall Harrison of the FAI was very well received. I drew the conclusion that any criticism of the FAI is another thing altogether as Niall is doing great work in the face of all kinds of challenges outside his control. There were some tough questions asked from the floor and a lively discussion, including Shay Kelly talking about just how tough the real world is for aspiring young footballers and Pat Walker describing the Swedish model and saying that there are options other than the UK open to young Irish. Chatham House rules were in place so we were all sworn to secrecy but none of the above is controversial.

TheBoss, I can see the irony but at the same time the Birkbeck Sport Business Centre is a very credible "think-tank" in the sports world and there are some Irish guys heavily involved in it. It'd be nice to think some similar initiative would be shown at home.

[geysir]

I take it that the Swedish model being an option to the UK, was meant that the kids could be kept home in Ireland, in the same way kids develop their football at academies in Sweden?

Chatham House rules means you can repeat all that was said, just don't say (or hint) who said it.

[Stuttgart88]

Yes, but also that the national association was more open and accountable and that the whole structure of the game more joined-up and owned by the association. That's how I understood it anyway.

[ifk101]

The best kids leave Sweden at an early age. John Guidetti (Man City), Sebastian Larsson (ex Arsenal, now Sunderland), Alexander Kacaniklic (Fulham), Martin Olsson (Blackburn) all went to English club in their teens. Shamrock Rovers' goalkeeper last season left Sweden in his early teens to join Spurs.

[geysir]

I'd say the issue is more with those Irish kids who are not the best, who go to English clubs in their teens.
Leave the 'weeding out' to be done in Ireland.

[ifk101]

How many Irish kids leave for Britain on an annual basis?

[geysir]

I don't know how many each year, nor what age they go over at, nor what is a 'good' age to give it a go. As it stands now, it makes sense to go where the facilities are best.

For the most part in Iceland, the club academies are good, the best players go abroad after they have finished the equivalent of their leaving cert and have played competitive first team football. And as they have already demonstrated that they are good enough, they're already offered a pro contract before they go. The Iceland FA actually touts the benefits of players to european clubs.
Like Sweden, the few exceptional young players leave earlier, like Gylfi Sigurdsson probably was 'kidnapped' when he was in mid teens.

In Ireland, in relative terms isn't O'Shea regarded as one of the exceptions? an Einstein for having completed his leaving cert. :)

[peadar1987]

The FAI are happy for hundreds of kids to go over and put all of their eggs in one basket, so long as the English academies deliver some bankable stars every once in a while. They don't seem particularly bothered about the ones who don't make it. Their responsibility is the welfare of football in Ireland, not just the 30-odd players on the international scene at any one time. They should be trying their hardest to keep promising players in Ireland by giving them a chance to develop their skills here, while also participating in education and training in case it all goes wrong. At the moment, it looks like they're content to let UCD do that for them. The health of the domestic game at all levels, from casual Sunday leaguer to one of the few professionals we have left should be an aim in itself, and shouldn't just be looked at through the lens of qualifying for a junket to Brazil, Russia or Qatar.

[ifk101]

Like Sweden, the few exceptional young players leave earlier.

It's more than a few exceptional .... just mentioned a few names that readers might of heard of previously. The list wasn't meant to be exhaustive. It was just to point out that best teenagers leave Sweden as much as teenagers leave Ireland to play football. Difference is Swedish teenagers are not just going to English and Scottish clubs. Whatever Swedish model exists, doesn't address the lure of money in taking a player abroad.


In Ireland, in relative terms isn't O'Shea regarded as one of the exceptions? an Einstein for having completed his leaving cert. :)

There's plenty of exports with the Leaving, indeed some have lefted Ireland with degrees.

[geysir]

It's more than a few exceptional .... just mentioned a few names that readers might of heard of previously. The list wasn't meant to be exhaustive. It was just to point out that best teenagers leave Sweden as much as teenagers leave Ireland to play football. Difference is Swedish teenagers are not just going to English and Scottish clubs. Whatever Swedish model exists, doesn't address the lure of money in taking a player abroad.

Then one could argue for the superior merits of the Icelandic model, but taking a look at the Swedish national squad, noting the age at which some players left the Swedish league to play abroad, these players were selected at random, not selected under false pretences to prove a bias:)

Johan Elmander 19 Alexander Gerndt 25 Marcus Berg 21 Emir Bajrami 22 Christian Wilhelmsson 23 Toivonen 23 Pontus Wernbloom 23 Seb Larsson 16 Kim Källström 22 Samuel Holmén 24 Rasmus Elm 21
Oscar Wendt 21 Behrang Safari 23 Martin Olsson 18 Jonas Olsson 22 Mikael Lustig 22 Andreas Granqvist 22 Daniel Majstorović 27 Anders Svensson 25 Tobias Hysén 24

[ifk101]

Then one could argue for the superior merits of the Icelandic model, but taking a look at the Swedish national squad, noting the age at which some players left the Swedish league to play abroad, these players were selected at random, not selected under false pretences to prove a bias:)

Very random selection indeed. You included a name that hasn't been selected for some time and unlikely will be selected again for off-the-field reasons.

But anyways and the point is, kids are leaving Sweden to play football to the same extent kids are leaving Ireland to play football. There is better structures in Swedish football, for example there exists football as a vocational training in a small number of schools (don't think this exists at secondary level in Ireland - maybe this is what the FAI should be looking at doing and linking it to a national academy), that is an initiative for players to stay in Sweden for longer but the ultimate goal is to play abroad which is the same as all Irish kids and presumably the majority of LOI players.

[geysir]

Very random selection indeed. You included a name that hasn't been selected for some time and unlikely will be selected again for off-the-field reasons.
I selected 20 players on the Wiki squad list who had the most caps,
And not listed were those capped players who are still playing in the Swedish leagues


But anyways and the point is, kids are leaving Sweden to play football to the same extent kids are leaving Ireland to play football. There is better structures in Swedish football, for example there exists football as a vocational training in a small number of schools (don't think this exists at secondary level in Ireland - maybe this is what the FAI should be looking at doing and linking it to a national academy), that is an initiative for players to stay in Sweden for longer but the ultimate goal is to play abroad which is the same as all Irish kids and presumably the majority of LOI players.

I don't see the evidence to support that, IFK.
The evidence points to that most of the kids who make it though to the national team, do their apprenticeship in Sweden.

These players were playing in the Swedish league until the age mentioned (approx).

Sweden V England recent friendly
Isaksson 18
Lustig 22
Sana 23
Granqvist 22
Antonsson 23
Jonas Olsson 22
Martin Olsson 18
Safari 23
Larsson 16
Jansson still in Sweden
Elm 21
Kallstrom 22
Svensson 25
Kacaniklic 16
Ibrahimovic 20
Ranegie 24
Wernbloom 23

Unused Subs:
Hansson ?
Holmen 26
Berg 23
Hamad still in Sweden

It goes without saying that Zlatan and Henrik Larsson are two world class players/the best Swedish players since decades,
Zlatan left Malmo age 20 Henrik left Helsingborgs age 22

[SkStu]

I agree with Geysir; To the casual observer of Swedish football, that's how it appears.

[ifk101]

I don't see the evidence to support that, IFK.

You don't want to see it more like. Go through the academy squads of British clubs and I'm sure you'll find plenty of Swedish names. Compare that to Irish players and then consider Swedes don't exclusively go to British clubs. And it increasingly more common that kids are leaving, or if not leaving being approached by foreign clubs. For example there's a kid for my local area with a Scottish club and the Swedish website for elite players has the last week published article on a 16 year old who turned down a move to Villa (because this is newsworthy - the turning down part).

[geysir]

You don't want to see it more like. Go through the academy squads of British clubs and I'm sure you'll find plenty of Swedish names. Compare that to Irish players and then consider Swedes don't exclusively go to British clubs. And it increasingly more common that kids are leaving, or if not leaving being approached by foreign clubs. For example there's a kid for my local area with a Scottish club and the Swedish website for elite players has the last week published article on a 16 year old who turned down a move to Villa (because this is newsworthy - the turning down part).

Look IFK, when SkStu agrees, then we can safely say the aura of righteousness looms like a golden gilded cloud :)
When 90% of the players that are selected for the current Swedish team and bench players have done their apprenticeship in Sweden, even played for seasons there at league level, we can say Sweden has a model that can be looked at, even adopted to some degree. The evidence is overwhelming to support that notion.

[ifk101]

Look IFK, when SkStu agrees, then we can safely say the aura of righteousness looms like a golden gilded cloud :)
When 90% of the players that are selected for the current Swedish team and bench players have done their apprenticeship in Sweden, even played for seasons there at league level, we can say Sweden has a model that can be looked at, even adopted to some degree. The evidence is overwhelming to support that notion.

The number of players in our national team with an apprenticeship in Ireland is increasing while there is a clear decreasing trend for the Swedish national squad. If you go back 10 years, the number of players with their apprenticeship in Sweden would probably be 100%, in 5 to 10 years time I'm pretty sure this percentage will be much lower for the simple reason kids are leaving Sweden to play abroad.

In our recent game against Greece, of the 16 players used, 8 or 50% have done their "apprenticeship" in Ireland. If we removed players born outside Ireland, that percentage is approx. 62%. Go back 10 years and the number of players that did an apprenticeship in Ireland with the national team would be near a very small percentage.

What's the Swedish model btw? :-)

[geysir]

You can compare the figures. Age is when they left Ireland

Players with LOI experience
Coleman 21 Ward 22 McClean 22 Hoolahan 24 Meyler 19 Doyle 22 Fahey

No LOI experience or too little to worth bothering about
Fahey 15 - when he first left
O'Dea 19
O'Shea 18
McShane 16
Kelly 16
Andrews 19
Whelan 17
Clifford 18
Brady 16
Long 18 (played some minutes for Cork)
Keogh 17
O'Brien 16
Dunne 17
Gibson 17
Hunt 18
Keane 15

[squareball]

We badly need a centre of excellence to give lads an alternative to leaving at 15/16. This centre could be aiming to have teams which competes with the teams in the TNG and be a feeder club to the LOI teams. The FAI could steer from the British model and try to emulate Ajax or Barca in player development to give diversity to our international sides. The centre could be based of the Clairefontaine blueprint. This would give lads a chance to play in Ireland for a long as they want and still be able to make it. Most of our better players get picked up at 13 years old at the Kennedy cup and are tied to contracts made with the big clubs at this age. This is putting huge pressure on kids at a very important stage of their development. It is much harder to make it at a Chelsea, Man United or City than nearly any other club in Europe because they will not give youth-teamers a chance to make it to the first team.

[Adrock]

If you llok at the players that have represented Sweden the last year 36 out of 39 established themselves in the Swedish league (Ibrahimovic included) before moving abroad when they were ready. Thats 93%.

Considering that approximately the best 20 players each age group from our youth team move over to play in Britain at 16 you would expect them to be providing most of our national squad. I fact I cant think of anyone who has gone through the academy system who has made the breakthrough as a premier league player in over a decade, not since Stephen Ireland and Joey O'Brien who I think moved at start of 2002 season. That leaves us trying to cobble together a team of english and scottish plastics, northern irish catholics and whatever meagre offerings the LOI can generate.

People wont accept that there is a problem with our dependence on british clubs to develop our talent because there is a reactionary attitude of ' thats always the way its been'. What might have worked in the past isnt necessarily going to work in the present or future though.

[SkStu]

Look IFK, when SkStu agrees, then we can safely say the aura of righteousness looms like a golden gilded cloud :).

Im just glad I don't feel the burning desire to change your mind over to my way of thinking on this occasion...

Sorry, I was just pointing out that it seems like Sweden keeps its players domestically longer and that those same players have a tendency to finish their careers out in Sweden.

[peadar1987]

Ideally, I think Ireland would have a number of regional academies where youngsters would go to receive top-notch coaching in football, while still being able to attend school, or get other qualifications. Perhaps have a particular focus on sports science and languages, increasing international prospects. Partnerships with third-level institutions could help with this. Encourage hot prospects to stay in Ireland, then once the players reach 18 or 21, or whenever, invite clubs to have a scout.

-The clubs benefit, as they get to see a concentration of excellent players without having to maintain such an expensive scouting network,
-The players benefit, because they get top-notch coaching, and the benefits of being surrounded by other talented players on a daily basis. They also get an education, so even if they pick up an injury, they'll have a grounding in sports journalism, sports nutrition, physiotherapy, and hopefully at least one foreign language
-The national team benefit, because there will be a string of capable players being generated, and hopefully some ending up in nations other than England, giving us different styles of footballer.
-The domestic league benefits, because even after the foreign clubs have inevitably signed the cream of the players, there'll be a lot of young, eager footballers in Ireland waiting for a chance to play the game at a professional or semi-professional level.

As always, the main obstacle is money, but the FAI found a way to pay for the Aviva, and I think a proper academy system would cost less and be of more benefit to football in this country in the long run.

[ifk101]

There are plans for a national academy, presumably the current regional development centers would feed into the proposed academy.

If the FAI want more immediate control over international player development, they could introduce a policy of only selecting domestic based players for international squads up to say U19 level. Wouldn't cost anything to implement, should actually be cost saving, would give greater control over the development of more players and presumably increase the working relationships with clubs.

[geysir]

There are a few other considerations, differences between Ireland and Sweden (apart from the quality differences of certain types of models).
The Swedish clubs themselves have the youth network sewn into their club structure, whereas we have clubs (Josephs, Home Farm, Crumlin etc) outside the LOI club structure.
The Swedish clubs have a multiplicity of sports in their complex which share facilities. We have competing sports in separate club structures. Isn't it so that the stadium in Lansdowne Rd is about the only significant shared facility?
Probably mentioned in Stutts' post is that the sports facilities/stadiums in Sweden are, for the most part, funded by the local municipality.

I would hazard a guess (without doing any research) that footballers would tend to come home to Sweden and finish out their career. One example, after Barcelona, Larsson spent a few seasons playing for Helsingborgs, the club he was with before he went abroad, I think it was his dream to do it that way.
I think near enough to 100% of the Icelandic footballers who have played professionally abroad, come back home and those of them who are still good enough, play for their club.

[Stuttgart88]

I heard Niall Harrison speak at the Birkbeck debate that started this thread off. Having heard him it's no surprise to me that our U15s are doing so well. Unfortunately Niall only has them for one more year and not long after that they have to find their own way in the world and history would suggest that many will fall off the ladder.

However, the last couple of posts in the Paul George thread prompted a thought in my small brain: would it be possible (or beneficial) for the FAI to persuade UEFA - or whoever controls the NextGen competition - to enter an Irish-based U19 squad in this competition? A selection of the best players from the U19 league for example.

[Charlie Darwin]

The NextGen series is a private league and I think a lot of it involves backscratching and whatnot - I can't see them changing the line-up anytime soon, and if they did they'd only be letting in elite sides. Most of the clubs currently in the competition are delivering 3,000-5,000 fans at a game and I really can't see any Irish side matching that for U19s games, even if there was the carrot of Aston Villa or Celtic. It looks like UEFA are going to take it over anyway and change it to just the academies of the teams that qualify for the Champions League, which isn't really much better.

[BonnieShels]

it would be beneficial. But your small brain as you put it is infinitely larger than the pinheads in Abbotstown.

Edit: Didn't know that Charlie. I thought it was UEFA's baby already.

[Stuttgart88]

Thanks for the clarity CD.

If it was feasible to find an angle in I think it'd be very useful. Thinking caps and lobbying skills required. The pitch to UEFA would be (a) we're almost uniquely disadvantaged by the EPL and (b) we're good UEFA ar$elickers, so let us in. I'm not sure that we wouldn't get 3-5,000 for something like this. I'm not talking about a LOI side, I'm talking about an FAI U19 side with only home-based players qualifying.

[ifk101]

There are a few other considerations, differences between Ireland and Sweden (apart from the quality differences of certain types of models).
The Swedish clubs themselves have the youth network sewn into their club structure, whereas we have clubs (Josephs, Home Farm, Crumlin etc) outside the LOI club structure.

There is a pyramid system in Swedish football so all registered clubs form part of one club structure. The LOI is a closed league. I'd imagine the overwhelming majority of professional clubs have a "youth network".


Swedish clubs have a multiplicity of sports in their complex which share facilities.

You would be confused there. There exists a sharing of club name across different sports but the different sports are represented by distinct entities.


have competing sports in separate club structures. Isn't it so that the stadium in Lansdowne Rd is about the only significant shared facility?

There're 3 clubs in Gothenburg playing out of the same stadium, and Djurgården share with athletics but that pretty much it when it comes to elite football clubs sharing facilities. Handball and ice hockey "share" the larger facilities for major (primarily international) events in the main cities. But it's usually the case that where handball is popular, ice hockey isn't and vice versa.


mentioned in Stutts' post is that the sports facilities/stadiums in Sweden are, for the most part, funded by the local municipality.

That would be a simplistic understanding of how stadiums are funded. That not to say municipalities aren't involved, because they are, but the impetus and greater share of financing for new stadium builds is more likely driven by other interest parties.



I would hazard a guess (without doing any research) that footballers would tend to come home to Sweden and finish out their career. One example, after Barcelona, Larsson spent a few seasons playing for Helsingborgs, the club he was with before he went abroad, I think it was his dream to do it that way.
I think near enough to 100% of the Icelandic footballers who have played professionally abroad, come back home and those of them who are still good enough, play for their club.

I would hazard a guess that returning home in the twilight of their career is not driven by footballing reasons. Larsson returned to Helsingborg because he wasn't getting the game time he wanted at Barcelona but also for family reasons. He wanted his kids to grow up in Sweden. Sweden has it own unique language which is, in my opinion, a strong draw for footballers with families to return to Sweden to finish off their careers (prolong their careers).

[tetsujin1979]

There was a discussion about the future developement of Irish footballers on Off The Ball last night, with Brian Kerr and Ken Donoghue, the director of football at St Kevin's Boys. you can listen to it here: http://www.newstalk.ie/the-future-of-irish-football-off-the-ball

[Stuttgart88]

Lads & lasses,

One of the attendees (Antonio Mantero - www.thecoachdiary.com blogger and kids coach at Castleknock Celtic) at the Birkbeck University event I was at before Christmas is organising his own version in Blanchardstown on 25th March. I'm going to go along as I'm over for the Austria game the following day. Details here:

Topic: Future of Youth Development in Irish Football.

Sponsored By JAKO Sports Irelandhttps://www.facebook.com/ JakoTeamSportIreland?fref=t s

Venue: Institute of Technology Blanchardstown BLOCK F

Address: Blanchardstown Road North, Dublin 15

Time: 6.30pm-9:00pm Monday 25th March

Car Parking is free on the night, make sure you park in a designated parking bay.

For a list of speaker go to http:// www.thecoachdiary.com/ the-future-of-youth-develop ment-in-irish-football/

[tetsujin1979]

thanks for the info, that's not too far from where I used to live. I'll be along.

[Stuttgart88]

I went along to the event organised by Antonio Mantero of the The Coach Diary blog in the Institute of Technology in Blanchardstwown on Monday night.

It was a very good event, Johnny Lyons of 98 FM Sport acting as MC and a good turnout of coaches from schoolboy and some LoI clubs. I met Peter Eccles, ex-Shamrock Rovers CB and capped once by Jack Charlton I think. It lasted 3.5 hours!

Anyway, the panelists were:
- Austin Speight of Coerver Ireland - a private company coaching kids worldwide uising the Coerver Method
- Dermot Dalton(?) of the beautifulgame.ie, another private company using the "Horst Wein Method".
- Mitch Whitty - I think he isTechnical Director of the North Dublin Schoolboys' League
- Mick Lynam - ex-FAI Child Protection Officer, made redundant with the cuts and now working freeelance I think.
- Antonio sat with the panel, but only joined in at the Q&A stage.

Austin & Dermot were both plugging their companies to some extent, but were mainly highliting the fact that there is now a universally accepted philosophy about coaching kids (small sided games - numbers depending on kids' ages, pastoral care, encouragement, technique, mini-leagues versus season-long leagues etc.) and that the traditional Irish method is basically the upside-down version of this. Arsenal no longer even scout in Ireland because of the brutes we tend to produce. We kind of knew all this though.

Mitch Whitty (ex-Chelsea academy coach) described how they have ripped everything up and started again in NDSL, largely in line with the more progressive / enlightened techniques and outlook largely accepted elsewhere. He says the results have been remarkable already with a crop of kids with talent & technique like they've never had before. Although the emphasis is not on winning, they recently went to Manchester and won a big tournament featuring major EPL academy sides. Mitch was positive about the FAI's Emerging Talent Programme whilst recognising its limitations and very positive about Niall Harrison.

Mick Lynam, an ex-Garda in his early 60s(?) and with a MSc in child psychology was a real character. He has dealt with kids from broken homes, deep poverty etc and used football to keep them out of trouble and teach them life skills and values. Again, he is promoting a more enlightened approach to encouraging kids and keeping them engaged and interested rather than the approach we've all heard about, and educating parents etc.

I suppose the key message overall was that there is at least one small group of progressively-minded coaches and organisations in Ireland, but unfortunately few other regions are following NDSL's example. The South Dublin Schoolboys League is miles behind and is run by the head of the SFAI who by all accounts are just operating in a vacuum and nobody even knows what they're trying to do or how they think. The lack of ownership that the FAI has over the broader game is a problem and the SFAI is impervious to FAI influence. Antonio had said that he has tried many times to contact the SFAI and has never got a response.

I asked if the Irish Sports Council can try and lean on the FAI to exert more authority but the ISC has no interest in doing so. Some panel members have tried in the past, but ISC simply say to talk to the FAI.

There was talk about moving schoolboy football to the summer, but all factions would need to agree to this and they can't - highlighting the lack of control a single body has.

Antonio did a great job and is organising more discussion events like this in future. I'll notify you on this site.

[Stuttgart88]

See link below for the latest in Antonio's series of events for coaches interested in gaining new perspectives. This looks more like a tutorial rather than a debate. €40 to attend, Coolmine FC on 15th June. A specialist running coach is giving a class in how to develop speed.

http://www.thecoachdiary.com/mike-antoniades-the-need-for-speed-coming-to-ireland-in-june-2013/

Didn't Celtic put Aiden McGeady though some sort of running speed programme?

[Junior]

See link below for the latest in Antonio's series of events for coaches interested in gaining new perspectives. This looks more like a tutorial rather than a debate. €40 to attend, Coolmine FC on 15th June. A specialist running coach is giving a class in how to develop speed.

http://www.thecoachdiary.com/mike-antoniades-the-need-for-speed-coming-to-ireland-in-june-2013/

Didn't Celtic put Aiden McGeady though some sort of running speed programme?

Yes they did actually. Gregory DuPont was the fitness coach involved. I remember eirebhoy also posting about that at the time. Personally I never actually thought McGeady was particularly pacey to be honest, though there was a marked improvement around that time.

[Stuttgart88]

Emmert Malone today writes about the Dutch model, Ruud Doktor, and what other countries are spending on youth development.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/footballing-world-sees-many-reasons-to-go-dutch-1.1400095

[paul_oshea]

I was expecting to see a 6ft leggy blond when I clicked that link.

[SkStu]

Great article Stutts. This piece in particular sums it all up for me. If the FAI truly has a vision, then they need to empower Dokter to execute it. Good luck with that!


Dutch levels of co-operation between clubs seems fairly unthinkable here in Ireland where the FAI puts its investment in the last four years in “grassroots programmes, high performance, and emerging talent programmes” at €60 million but resistance from schoolboy outfits to a national under-17 league is one of the problems Dokter, like Wim Koevermans before him, will have to contend with.

[Stuttgart88]

I thought this interview with Jurgen Klinsmann was interesting

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/06/jurgen-klinsmann-usa-coach-world-cup

[BonnieShels]

I think this article that was linked to me after I read that Klinsmann one is more apt for Ireland...

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/05/vincent-kompany-belgium-lost-decade-world-cup-2014

[Stuttgart88]

I'll see that guardian article and raise it

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jun/06/belgium-blueprint-gave-birth-golden-generation-world-cup-

[Nagger]

I'll see that guardian article and raise it

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jun/06/belgium-blueprint-gave-birth-golden-generation-world-cup-

Great article. Smaller pitches, 2v2, 5v5 and 8v8 looks to have worked for them.

[Stuttgart88]

Exactly what thecoachdiary.com recommends.

[mark12345]

Great article. Smaller pitches, 2v2, 5v5 and 8v8 looks to have worked for them.

Very informative article alright and not a knock on you nagger or anyone who has posted on this topic, but are we that far behind the times in Ireland that we are really only waking up now to the concept of smaller pitches and 2 v 2, 5 v 5's etc.

The reason I ask is that I have lived in America for 20 plus years and small pitches and small sided games has been the order of the day for as long as I can remember. I played at LOI level back home and I can honestly tell you that I learned more in the first six months after coming to America than I did in my entire life at home. It's all down to coaching at the end of the day and from what I can gather, but I hope someone proves me wrong, the coaching in Ireland for young kids is s****.

I read somewhere a few months ago that the next year should produce a lot talent in Ireland because of some new coaching scheme the FAI have implemented?
That seems to be the 'official' word but the word from the man on the street (on this forum) would seem to suggest otherwise?

How are we fixed in Ireland for a revolution in coaching like the Belgians have done? Does anyone have an opinion?

[Stuttgart88]

I'd like to see some wealthy types like Desmond and O'Brien offer financial support for a proper coach education programme. That'd be a great start. But the rest of the problems remain: a dysfunctional pyramid with vested interests looking after their own needs and no orderly pathway up the pyramid into what would ideally be a more professional top tier. I think some people are doing the right things, but we need everyone to be doing the right thing.

[mark12345]

I'd like to see some wealthy types like Desmond and O'Brien offer financial support for a proper coach education programme. That'd be a great start. But the rest of the problems remain: a dysfunctional pyramid with vested interests looking after their own needs and no orderly pathway up the pyramid into what would ideally be a more professional top tier. I think some people are doing the right things, but we need everyone to be doing the right thing.

An enlightened vision Stutts, but the word dysfunctional remains attached to Irish youth coaching it seems. Pity. Are we ever going to stop being our own worst enemies?