Debate - Future of Youth Development in Irish Football

[Stuttgart88]

Still so much of it is a bit random though. As far as I recall, at no point was Omobadimele spoken about here or anywhere as the next likely breakthrough player until he suddenly got his starts at Norwich and impressed immediately. I'm not sure he was even a regular in the U19s but I haven't checked.

[passinginterest]

3 under 17, 4 under 19 and 2 under 21 caps according to Wiki. 3 goals in those under 17 and 19 caps too. I think we're still 10 years away from having more consistency and quality in the development pipeline. The underage national leagues are still only developing and they're going to be huge with the barrier to players moving to England before they turn 18.

[Kingdom]

Reading through the early pages of this thread and the prospects under 21 thread you can almost pinpoint the time our young players got left behind and our domestic coaching system and method of shipping player to England fell apart. The prospects thread was basically 2009-2011 and the crop of players that came through there are effectively the last group to make the breakthrough. This thread started around 2012 and you can see immediately how the SFAI and the South Dublin League in particular are welded to the old ways, while others are pushing to try and implement small sided games, modern coaching and a proper development pathway. The generation starting to come through now, the 18/19/20 year olds are the first ones really exposed to the changes, and most of them would have probably still spent the early formative years in an old school set up. It's only the 13/14 year olds today that are going to have mainly been exposed to modern coaching throughout their developmental years and we won't see them breaking through for another 6-10 years. It further exposes the massive rebuild facing the national team. Other nations have done it, notably the likes of Belgium who, in one of the threads, were being suggested as a soft touch 3rd seed to draw in a qualifying campaign!

I can only speak of the SDFL (before they sold their soul) around 2016-2018. I'd very specific experience of it. It's always been a weak league going back 20 years to when I played DDSL (we wouldn't have been concerned by any SDFL team), and fully take on board that you're referring to 2009-2011, but I found the SDFL coaches of the representative teams to be very fair, and extremely progressive in their approach. I mightn't have agreed with everything they did (no shít I hear collectively!) but they were very conscious of the talented smaller kids, of which one was my own. And they were very open to bringing kids in who wouldn't have been scouted by them. One of my kids was playing SDFL C league - officially the worst league in ireland I would think, and within 3 months was playing representative football. (now that shouldn't have been the case to begin with, but there was no high morale ground there).
I was disappointed that they joined the DDSL, if anything, I thought that more clubs should have been looking at moving to the SDFL, particularly some of those clubs for whom the DDSL should mean nothing, and to whom they mean nothing to the DDSL.

[Kingdom]

I think that's too early; they'll be 22-24 at the tournament, sure, but we need to qualify first, and some of the older lads will be in decline by then - Coleman will be 35 for example. Really, we need that generation to mature and a second generation behind them to come through before we can look like a real team again.

100% agree with you there. With some luck, we could scrape into, and scrape through Euro24 unscathed. (for the cynics out there, I'm not saying we will qualify challenge or anything like that, simply that a possibility exists.

Coleman & Doherty might be ok given they weren't on the UK merrygoround since 16. Hendrick is a conditioned freak - that's been acknowledged in the UK previously that his stats are off the chart, so he should be ok too. It's Duffy, Stevens, Brady, Egan, McClean and Hourihane. Like it or not, they are mainstays of the squad, and will not be replaced (or their experience (generally - but also of tournament football - replaced easily).
And on that subject - experience of tournament football...I know others here disagree with my contention about qualifying for underage tournaments as long and high up the chain as possible being beneficial, but for me it is absolutely crucial. The underage youth championships are vital for player progression - not just as individuals, but as part of generations. For that to become an annual occurance will only benefit the senior team. It means that a finals appearance doesn't turn into something that becomes overbearing or unbearable.

[Kingdom]

3 under 17, 4 under 19 and 2 under 21 caps according to Wiki. 3 goals in those under 17 and 19 caps too. I think we're still 10 years away from having more consistency and quality in the development pipeline. The underage national leagues are still only developing and they're going to be huge with the barrier to players moving to England before they turn 18.

If I remember correctly - and I have to plead ignorance on this, but I'm getting better - wasn't he part of the 17s team that hosted their Euro finals in Waterford? He was one of the only bright spots (as was defence generally in that side)?

[passinginterest]

I can only speak of the SDFL (before they sold their soul) around 2016-2018. I'd very specific experience of it. It's always been a weak league going back 20 years to when I played DDSL (we wouldn't have been concerned by any SDFL team), and fully take on board that you're referring to 2009-2011, but I found the SDFL coaches of the representative teams to be very fair, and extremely progressive in their approach. I mightn't have agreed with everything they did (no shít I hear collectively!) but they were very conscious of the talented smaller kids, of which one was my own. And they were very open to bringing kids in who wouldn't have been scouted by them. One of my kids was playing SDFL C league - officially the worst league in ireland I would think, and within 3 months was playing representative football. (now that shouldn't have been the case to begin with, but there was no high morale ground there).
I was disappointed that they joined the DDSL, if anything, I thought that more clubs should have been looking at moving to the SDFL, particularly some of those clubs for whom the DDSL should mean nothing, and to whom they mean nothing to the DDSL.

Sorry, yeah, getting my leagues confused, had meant to refer to DDSL in the post rather than SDFL.

[Kingdom]

Sorry, yeah, getting my leagues confused, had meant to refer to DDSL in the post rather than SDFL.

Yes!!!! Validation ;)

To be fair, DDSL, SDFL, NDSL, CCFL, WWFL, CKWFL, MFL, KKDL, KSL - it's like a Codex Alimentarius Council formation on edibles.

[Exgrad]

If I remember correctly - and I have to plead ignorance on this, but I'm getting better - wasn't he part of the 17s team that hosted their Euro finals in Waterford? He was one of the only bright spots (as was defence generally in that side)?

Yes and was then included in squad that same summer in the u19 tournament were we got to the semi finals.

[CSAD]

If I remember correctly - and I have to plead ignorance on this, but I'm getting better - wasn't he part of the 17s team that hosted their Euro finals in Waterford? He was one of the only bright spots (as was defence generally in that side)?

Well that and Joe Hodge who was brilliant (he too got into the u19s that summer) our attack was greatly diminished due to Parrott,Odubeko and Sotona not being available.

[Exgrad]

Well that and Joe Hodge who was brilliant (he too got into the u19s that summer) our attack was greatly diminished due to Parrott,Odubeko and Sotona not being available.

Odubeko says he was avaiable but not selected...

[CSAD]

Odubeko says he was avaiable but not selected...

That really doesn't make sense to me considering the players Ireland picked instead of him. I’m pretty sure Odubeko and one other player weren’t allowed go by their school or something because of how they were performing at the time and maybe he’s ****ed that the FAI didn’t come and bat for him. That also seems logical as I struggle to see another reason for him not being selected.

[tetsujin1979]

Wasn't sure where to post this
Former Ireland U19 goalkeeper Tim Dittmer has been promoted to head of coaching at the FA: https://trainingground.guru/articles/tim-dittmer-promoted-to-head-of-coaching-by-football-association

[tetsujin1979]

Good article on the42 today - Irish football has always been defined by Britain, so what has changed since Brexit?
https://www.the42.ie/britain-influence-on-irish-football-5667353-Jan2022/

[paul_oshea]

Decent read on rte today. The two are an interesting combination , given their area of expertise you'd have to assume they're well informed in this area. But it's a bit light on hard detail or actual concrete examples and I'd have liked to have seen in comparison to other countries like Croatia who have very poorly funded infrastructure and on the periphery of the Italian leagues combined with a big interest in basketball and handball and even hockey.

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2022/0125/1275761-ireland-soccer-player-development/

[tetsujin1979]

'Brexit is a golden opportunity' - What the FAI have done to improve youth development, and what they have yet to do
https://www.the42.ie/fai-youth-development-5691272-Feb2022/

[Insidetherock]

Just going to post this.. cause I am bigging myself up, and I am proud as punch..

I started a schoolgirls soccer club about 10 yr ago, cause my daughter wanted to try playing a bit of ball. She stopped after 12 months.. but others had started and I didn't want to let those down.. more and more joined, other coaches.. other players, and to be honest, over the years we had quite a decent amount of success.. lost an FAI U14 semi final which we could have won (beaten 3-2 in last minute of extra time, after being 2-0 at half time.. brilliant game)

Anyways.. I'm rabbiting on.. the reason I am posting this here in youth development.. is that I remember one wet, windy night, a young girl came in with her dad, and he asking could she play.. she was 9 years of age.. but had a bit of swagger.. you know, rotating the shoulders and whatnot.. at nine.

So I reckoned she's either sh*t hot.. or just sh*t

Here's her first international goal at u17 during the week in a 4-1 win over Switzerland.. I reckon she'll be part of Irelands first ever World Cup squad in maybe 2 more cycles..

And boy am I proud..

https://www.facebook.com/CashelTownFC/videos/473852014317885

As for the rolling shoulders and the swagger.. she's still got em.. but you would not meet a nicer, more polite, down to earth.. but hard working baller on the planet.. lives for it

[Stuttgart88]

Well done you. POTM.

[SkStu]

Brilliant ITR - she has the technique (and hair) of Ruud Gullit with that thump of a header. Well done to you and to your daughter and best of luck to her in her career in green!!

[Insidetherock]

Brilliant ITR - she has the technique (and hair) of Ruud Gullit with that thump of a header. Well done to you and to your daughter and best of luck to her in her career in green!!

She's not mine, but I'm claiming surrogacy.. great family she's from

What I love about the goal, is if you watch what she does.. two hands in the air like fist pumps.. the corner taker responds with her two hands up..

Basically Michaela (the scorer) saying.. you just do your job, get it up there and I'll sort out the rest.. and the corner taker just landed a beauty.. boom

Lads at underage male and female, we have some serious ballers.. doesn't matter who is getting the credit for it, but the underage leagues are definitely bearing fruit.. long may it last

[samhaydenjr]

Cracking corner and header!

[Kingdom]

Just going to post this.. cause I am bigging myself up, and I am proud as punch..

I started a schoolgirls soccer club about 10 yr ago, cause my daughter wanted to try playing a bit of ball. She stopped after 12 months.. but others had started and I didn't want to let those down.. more and more joined, other coaches.. other players, and to be honest, over the years we had quite a decent amount of success.. lost an FAI U14 semi final which we could have won (beaten 3-2 in last minute of extra time, after being 2-0 at half time.. brilliant game)

Anyways.. I'm rabbiting on.. the reason I am posting this here in youth development.. is that I remember one wet, windy night, a young girl came in with her dad, and he asking could she play.. she was 9 years of age.. but had a bit of swagger.. you know, rotating the shoulders and whatnot.. at nine.

So I reckoned she's either sh*t hot.. or just sh*t

Here's her first international goal at u17 during the week in a 4-1 win over Switzerland.. I reckon she'll be part of Irelands first ever World Cup squad in maybe 2 more cycles..

And boy am I proud..

https://www.facebook.com/CashelTownFC/videos/473852014317885

As for the rolling shoulders and the swagger.. she's still got em.. but you would not meet a nicer, more polite, down to earth.. but hard working baller on the planet.. lives for it

Congrats John, I've followed your posts on twitter for the past couple of years, and that pride shines through constantly.

[Insidetherock]

Congrats John, I've followed your posts on twitter for the past couple of years, and that pride shines through constantly.

Not John.. but I know who John is..

And John had nothing to do with this young lady's development.. not a single thing

But no need to get into that in public ;)

[Kingdom]

Wooopsie daisy.

We'll leave it there so.

[SkStu]

What was a lovely post, ruined by sloppiness from myself and Kingers. Apologies ITR (not John).

[Insidetherock]

Not at all lads.. John does good work at youth level, so he's entitled to credit when he does..

Main credit for this young lady, is this young lady.. she's a workaholic when it comes to her football

[tetsujin1979]

'I hope he is proud' - Praise for the man who helped instigate Ireland's youth football rejuvenation (https://www.the42.ie/irish-footballs-feel-good-factor-5791590-Jun2022/)

“They know the structure is in place and that they have a good base and they can do it. That is really due to Ruud Dokter. So I hope he is proud looking from the outside into the results.”

[gastric]

'I hope he is proud' - Praise for the man who helped instigate Ireland's youth football rejuvenation (https://www.the42.ie/irish-footballs-feel-good-factor-5791590-Jun2022/)

A sincere question, is this really true or is there luck involved too? I am just intrigued by what others' think?

[John83]

It's always part luck, but we have a severe structural problem here and Dokter made some progress in a very difficult job.

[JR89]

FAI have finally announced Marc Canham as the replacement for Dokter as the FAIs director of football. Has been working with the Premier League for the last nine years as their director of coaching.

John Morling returns to the FAI as senior football consultant. Morling was involved as manager of the Republic of Ireland Under-15s, Under-16 and Under-17 Men’s teams and Player Development Manager before moving to Brighton to take up the role as academy manager which he did for the last ten years.

1537463789381160960

[elatedscum]

A sincere question, is this really true or is there luck involved too? I am just intrigued by what others' think?

Didn’t have any direct dealing with him but was once involved with something which was happening due to his recommendations.

Thought he did excellent work. He was hindered by various stakeholders in terms of making some necessary structural change. But I would think if you had to identify the single individual most responsible for the raft of talented young players arriving now, Dokter is probably the name you’d come up with

[Stuttgart88]

FAI have finally announced Marc Canham as the replacement for Dokter as the FAIs director of football. Has been working with the Premier League for the last nine years as their director of coaching.

John Morling returns to the FAI as senior football consultant. Morling was involved as manager of the Republic of Ireland Under-15s, Under-16 and Under-17 Men’s teams and Player Development Manager before moving to Brighton to take up the role as academy manager which he did for the last ten years.

Not sure if this a bold decisive move getting two guys with a good pedigree into the fold, and back into the fold in Morling's case, or if it's some sort of woolly compromise that will prevent Canham from executing his role effectively. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt though - having good people at the FAI should be a good thing.

[JR89]

Not sure if this a bold decisive move getting two guys with a good pedigree into the fold, and back into the fold in Morling's case, or if it's some sort of woolly compromise that will prevent Canham from executing his role effectively. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt though - having good people at the FAI should be a good thing.

All the reports at first had Morling down as getting the job, and then a few weeks later they had Canham named as getting the job. Myself I'd say Morling might have been offered the job, considered it but could have better offers at club level like Newcastle and recommended Canham for the job. They'd surely have dealt with each other given the jobs they held. FAI may have asked Morling to come in as a consultant to help out while Canham gets used to the new role.

[tetsujin1979]

Who is Marc Carnham, the man with the most important job in Irish football - https://www.the42.ie/who-is-the-man-with-the-most-important-job-in-irish-football-5722110-Jun2022/

[Eirambler]

Why on earth did I read the comments at the end of that - I should know better by now?!

"Disband the FAI for five years because we're no good anyway."

[Razors left peg]

Why on earth did I read the comments at the end of that - I should know better by now?!

"Disband the FAI for five years because we're no good anyway."

Let me guess.... whoever wrote that was wearing a GAA or Rugby jersey

[CSAD]

Why on earth did I read the comments at the end of that - I should know better by now?!

"Disband the FAI for five years because we're no good anyway."

Because apparently not playing football will make us better at it…

Why do some of these Mellon heads even bother replying to a page?

[Stav]

That's rubbish. Rugby and soccer share a stadium. If we want to get major tournaments the Gaa have to be involved. Why all this codology. The more sports kids can play the better chance of them finding one they like and sticking at it. The reality is that most Irish people have an interest in our international teams and hope they do well.
It would be great if all the stars graduated to the sport we prefer but in reality it is about these kids playing sport, getting good coaching and progressing in whatever sport they choose.

[seanfhear]

Because apparently not playing football will make us better at it…

Why do some of these Mellon heads even bother replying to a page?
Could have been a, Wind Up Merchant.

[pineapple stu]

We're also rans now. Have been for a long time.

The idea that we should push 16-year-olds even further abroad - leaving school to move to a place where they've to learn a new language just so one in a hundred might make it and give you a better football team to support - is excessive. And even then those leagues don't want most of our players. This is work we have to do ourselves.

And I'm not seeing a massive success rate so far at the guys who are or have been in European academies (Noss, Heffernan, Zefi, Finn, FitzGerald, Johansson, etc)

[Eirambler]

We're also rans now. Have been for a long time.

The idea that we should push 16-year-olds even further abroad - leaving school to move to a place where they've to learn a new language just so one in a hundred might make it and give you a better football team to support - is excessive. This is work we have to do ourselves.

And I'm not seeing a massive success rate so far at the guys who are or have been in European academies (Noss, Heffernan, Zefi, Finn, FitzGerald, Johansson, etc)

Not true at all. Our youth production line from the 1998 to 2003 age groups has, overall, been excellent. Then something seems to have gone badly wrong from 2004 onwards.

For the most part the European based players you are listing there are from an era when our best went to England, so not really a fair comparison.

I have no issue investing in domestic youth structures, in fact I'm all for it. But, once again, suggesting that our best young players are better off staying here instead of going into properly developed footballing setups abroad while our domestic setup remains in its current state is just nonsensical to be honest.

And today we're seeing an early example of the consequences of that on the pitch.

[ontheotherhand]

Did we have a good track record of qualification pre-Brexit when our players were heading across to English academies? Looking at wikipedia it looks like we very rarely qualify for the Euros but this group of home based players has done it so we must be doing something right. Also looks like we have a lot of 15 year olds in the side compared to Poland. Would they even be at top European academies at this stage?

Speaking solely as a rovers supporter, our academy has also done very well in tournaments against European and English clubs. We won the Hale End Cup at u14 (https://twitter.com/SRFCAcademy/status/1646211320302256206?t=yBTwUKipje5sHSjRs1eQgw&s=19) level without conceding a goal. So I'm not sure we don't have a few (far too few obviously) good options for kids at home at this stage. If I had a son playing at that level I'd be more in favour of him staying at home than heading off at 14/15 to Italy etc. We've probably lost more players than we've gained with that outsourced model. Definitely needs a lot more investment but we also need to keep these players at home and be paid a fee if and when they go or nothing will change.

[SkStu]

The only really, truly viable solution has been staring us in the face for the last 25-30 years. A few of us have been saying it for that long too. The overreliance on the children of our diaspora along with English youth systems to develop Irish born players as the only strategy to build our national team is coming home to roost. The investment in our domestic academy structures and our national league is the critical step in us having control over our fortunes and destiny as a senior national team. These domestic senior structures have to be seen as the preferred pathways for 90% of our youth to make a living career - and ideally a number of them will make the move to a higher standard league and ultimately make a difference to our senior national team fortunes. The other 10% - the best of the best - can still move overseas to the elite teams but, even then, in no world would sending 16 year olds to a foreign environment be the ideal solution. It has already seen the careers of many of our most promising youngsters fall apart and turned them away from the game completely where they were also without decent education or marketable skills. The odds will always be against them to make the breakthrough - whether it is in England or Italy.

Bottom line, in my opinion, is that it is not completely one or the other but the first pathway is critical, the return on investment will be significant and has to be built such that it becomes the default rather than the exception. If other countries - nordic, slavic etc - can do it that way, there is no reason why we cant.

[Eirambler]

The only really, truly viable solution has been staring us in the face for the last 25-30 years. A few of us have been saying it for that long too. The overreliance on the children of our diaspora along with English youth systems to develop Irish born players as the only strategy to build our national team is coming home to roost. The investment in our domestic academy structures and our national league is the critical step in us having control over our fortunes and destiny as a senior national team. These domestic senior structures have to be seen as the preferred pathways for 90% of our youth to make a living career - and ideally a number of them will make the move to a higher standard league and ultimately make a difference to our senior national team fortunes. The other 10% - the best of the best - can still move overseas to the elite teams but, even then, in no world would sending 16 year olds to a foreign environment be the ideal solution. It has already seen the careers of many of our most promising youngsters fall apart and turned them away from the game completely where they were also without decent education or marketable skills. The odds will always be against them to make the breakthrough - whether it is in England or Italy.

Bottom line, in my opinion, is that it is not completely one or the other but the first pathway is critical, the return on investment will be significant and has to be built such that it becomes the default rather than the exception. If other countries - nordic, slavic etc - can do it that way, there is no reason why we cant.



How long do you think that is going to take? Who is expected to fund it - the FAI is broke? Are you of the view that players should be being pushed towards staying here in a substandard system at this point in time, even though there are far better setups available to them in Europe?

[SkStu]

How long do you think that is going to take? Who is expected to fund it - the FAI is broke? Are you of the view that players should be being pushed towards staying here in a substandard system at this point in time, even though there are far better setups available to them in Europe?

If the elite academies in Europe are interested in them, they would be coming for them. Those that have are getting the players they want. Who exactly is standing in the way? Personally, I don't think it is ideal. Never have. When there is a success rate of <1% for professional footballers you have to factor the short and long term wellbeing of the youngster into what you think is best overall.

The long term solution is something along the lines of what i have set out in my post. It has to be. Its going to take a generation to catch up and if we dont start yesterday then we fall further and further behind. You should be calling for it to happen by any means necessary, not making excuses for why it shouldn't. Even limited changes and investment would make a difference in the short term. It arguably already has.

[pineapple stu]

For the most part the European based players you are listing there are from an era when our best went to England, so not really a fair comparison.
Why not? I think it shows that going to a European academy is far from being a panacea. (Some of the guys lived abroad so were basically staying at home by joining Benfica, Gladbach, etc)


I have no issue investing in domestic youth structures, in fact I'm all for it. But, once again, suggesting that our best young players are better off staying here instead of going into properly developed footballing setups abroad while our domestic setup remains in its current state is just nonsensical to be honest.
But you're still ignoring the point of going into an increasingly full-time senior setup at 18 rather than a foreign academy. That's a big difference for me.


And today we're seeing an early example of the consequences of that on the pitch.[/B]
In the 2017 finals, we lost 7-0 to Germany. That squad included Collins, Idah (domestic-based at the time), O'Connor, Connolly and Gavin Kilkenny. Is today's result really a consequence of Brexit, or is it just a bad defeat like we've had before?

One other thing worth noting is that the LoI has actually done reasonably well in the Youth League. UCD lost on penalties to a Molde side with Haaland and Ostigard. Cork (with Ogbene) beat HJK and gave Roma a proper game (they were 2-1 down with two minutes to go and had to go chasing the game; got picked off twice). Bohs lost to PAOK by a single goal, and were ahead of Midtylland on away goals with 35 to go. These are big clubs - group stage regulars at senior level - and far better results than you'd expect at senior level. Is the academy setup all that bad?

[CraftyToePoke]

If the elite academies in Europe are interested in them, they would be coming for them. Those that have are getting the players they want. Who exactly is standing in the way?

Nothing and nobody stopping them at all.

Maybe we need to ship batches of them over & say can yee fix these & send them back tournament ready there. Maybe we need to be more .... pRoACtIVe. ffs

[elatedscum]

https://twitter.com/FutsalFinn/status/1658864143863107584
We have eight 17 year olds, Poland has 15 in their squad! We’ve four lads aged 15 & one 14 year old the other seven are 16. Polish squad has six 16 year olds. Time will tell if having a younger squad will stand to our lads. Poland have been very impressive
In fact, there are more 15 year olds on our squad than all the other nations in the tournament combined! This has been a poor performance against a very good Poland team but being so young has obvious challenges in underage international football.

The issue is, this is at least partly by design. In terms of players who are actually u17s - none of Kone-Doherty, Wade, Kelly or Dodd were included - they'd all be 100% picks for me and starters for me (maybe two of Kelly, Dodd and McGrath for the same position).

We know for sure that Doherty is injured, and it's possible the rest are also in the same boat but the FAI press release only mentioned Doherty and McAndrew (u16). Wade scored for Chelsea in a tournament in the netherlands last month.

Obviously there's some incredibly talented u16s (Collins, Harnett, Moore, Murray, Orazi, Melia, McAndrew) and Solanke who's an u15 - but it's hard to imagine there's only 13 u17s who aren't ahead of their much younger counterparts. It's weird as the tournament has progressed the squad has gotten younger and younger rather than older.

Maybe it's a by-product of Brexit, that we previously had 3 streams of players: the lads who stayed, the lads who moved and the second/third gen players living abroad. Maybe the consequence is that the second tier players are no longer getting places in elite LOI sides, so there's less depth? Maybe we're a little unlucky that Michael Golding and Josh Acheampong are both playing for England rather than us. Maybe the fact that the 17s side has had so many u16s involved recently means that the better u17s haven't had the requisite exposure? Maybe 2006 is just a down year (like we had in 1993 or 1994)

I couldn't really tell you how far along guys like Theo Avery, Jamie Gamble, Sean Mackey, Sean Hayden, Orlandas Jakas, Patryk Swieczka, John O'Sullian, Cian Morling, Brian Moore, Elidon O'Boyle or Aidan Cannon are. I'm sure some have lost ground over the last year - but genuinely the youth of the squad is something surprising. I'd expect we'll see some good players getting u19s caps who were overlooked for this squad.

Also the youth of the team selection was surprising. I would have expected Babb at right back, Turley in centre back along with Grante. Romeo in midfield in Turley's place, and probably Nickson Okosun and Taylor Mooney as part of the front three, maybe alongside Orazi.

I'd still expect us to beat Wales. Interesting they only have one u16 in their squad and their most talented lad Elliot Myles didn't make their squad - even though he's possibly/probably more talented than any of our u16s.

[TonyD]

How long do you think that is going to take? Who is expected to fund it - the FAI is broke? Are you of the view that players should be being pushed towards staying here in a substandard system at this point in time, even though there are far better setups available to them in Europe?

I’ll flip that question for you. When do you think we should start to try develop our own players then ? Or are you always going to be like the guy who says “I wouldn’t start from here “ ? Short term thinking like that means we’ll never get anywhere. To answer your question, the longer we leave it, the longer it will take.

[Eirambler]

We don't start at any point because we started decades ago. Hundreds of young players come through our own development structures already, it's just we never hear about most of them because they're not elite level potential players. The elite ones leave and always have done.

Once the funding, structures, facilities and coaches are in place to keep elite level players here, they'll stay here because they'll want to. Right now, because none of those are in place, they'll leave at the first available opportunity, just like they always have done. Just unfortunately, for those that are set on the UK, they must wait until 18 now. But at least the continent remains an option for those that are keen to go sooner.

Suggesting that lads should be choosing to stay here until 21 (as has been put forward here) is for the birds to be honest.

[pineapple stu]

Suggesting that lads should be choosing to stay here until 21 (as has been put forward here) is for the birds to be honest.
James McClean, Séamus Coleman, Wes Hoolahan, Kevin Doyle, Daryl Murphy and Enda Stevens would be among those who'd disagree, I'm sure.

But I think if you're going to suggest that people are away with the birds, you should at least have the courtesy to engage in the points being made. So for example -


Why does the LoI have such a respectable record in the UEFA Youth League? We've seen a wide spread of LoI teams holding their own against some much bigger clubs
Why is it so vital our players move to Italy, Belgium or England when they qualified ahead of Italy and matched Poland's recent results against Belgium and England?
Why did we lose by a bigger margin at this stage six years ago with a squad that included Lee O'Connor (Manchester United), Nathan Collins (Stoke), Aaron Connolly (Brighton) and Gavin Kilkenny (Bournemouth)?
Why should we encourage sending 16-year-old kids abroad to a country where they've to learn a new language so they can have a 1% chance (if that) of making it as a pro? Do these elite academies even want them?
Why do you not look at the age profile of our squad, which appears to be the youngest at the tournament?
Why no mention of the fact that at 18, these players should be going into increasingly full-time senior setups, whereas abroad they'd be dumped in an U19s academy? I think the former is a big positive, especially if there's European football on offer too.


Nobody's saying all our players should wait until their 21st birthday before moving abroad. But you're the one saying they should all be looking to jump ship once they hit 18, and I (and others, it seems) can't agree with that. Brexit is Irish football's biggest opportunity in decades.