Debate - Future of Youth Development in Irish Football

[tetsujin1979]

not Irish players, but a short film following three players who were released from their league clubs at 18 going to exit trials
a1OeCybs56Y

[DannyInvincible]

Former Donegal GAA manager and Celtic performance consultant Jim McGuinness has been appointed assistant coach at Chinese Super League club Beijing Sinobo Guoan: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gaelic-games/40454791

As far as I know, McGuinness has already completed the FAI Coaching Pathway, Kick Start 2 and the FAI Youth Cert Coaching Course.

[DannyInvincible]

An article here about how Swedish clubs are tackling the detrimental impact of pushy parents at kids' football matches.

'Stop shouting: how Sweden tackled misbehaving parents at kids’ football': https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/jul/10/shouting-parents-football-sweden-football-code


It transpired [from a survey conducted by the three main Stockholm clubs] that one in three children had considered quitting the game because of what the survey called “over-engaged” parents. Of the 1,016 adults who answered the survey, 83% said they had seen parents who were pushing their children too much or criticised young referees and officials loudly.

The three Stockholm clubs – Djurgarden, AIK and Hammarby, who had commissioned the survey together with Volkswagen – were appalled by the numbers and decided to act. The clubs do not always see eye to eye (or at least their fans don’t) but they immediately joined forces to launch an initiative to combat the problem. They sat down together and came up with a short yet encompassing “football code” that they hope will lead to a change in behaviour by adults watching youth football.

The code reads as follows: “I, as a parent, will do everything I can to support my child, other children, club staff, referees and parents in training and at games – through a positive involvement.” The response has been incredible. More than 1,600 parents have signed up to the code and more are doing so by the day. Parents have also asked the clubs to print the code on T-shirts so that the message can be shared more widely. Other top-flight clubs in Sweden have expressed an interest in joining the initiative.

Maybe something for the FAI and Irish clubs/youth teams to consider.

[DannyInvincible]

Update on Jim McGuinness in China: https://www.balls.ie/football/jim-mcguinness-beijing-guoan-368721

His new team beat Phil Scolari's league-leaders, Guangzhou Evergrande, 2-0 at the weekend.

[Siberian]

Update on Jim McGuinness in China: https://www.balls.ie/football/jim-mcguinness-beijing-guoan-368721

His new team beat Phil Scolari's league-leaders, Guangzhou Evergrande, 2-0 at the weekend.

A game in China hardly relevant to the 'future of youth development in irish football' :confused:

[DannyInvincible]

A game in China hardly relevant to the 'future of youth development in irish football' :confused:

He's been mentioned in this thread a few times as he was doing youth coach training with the FAI, so I stuck the update on his career here rather than starting a new thread. I didn't think a new thread dedicated solely to McGuinness would be justified for an assistant manager not actually involved in the international set-up, but maybe it would be appropriate. If mods/tets wish to move the McGuinness posts to a new thread, I'd have no problem with that whatsoever.

[tetsujin1979]

apart from the balls.ie link, I've no problem with it.

[Charlie Darwin]

apart from the balls.ie link, I've no problem with it.
I agree, Danny has committed the worst thread violation I've seen here yet.

[Eminence Grise]

Ah, but at least he didn't quote the whole 19 page transcript of the videos! I, for one, commend the restraint he showed. :cool:

[DannyInvincible]

Haha! :o

If only I had a Chinese keyboard...

[Eminence Grise]

...you'd break the internet! And we'd all have to learn Mandarin to keep up with you!:D

[tetsujin1979]

Future looks healthy for Irish football, says Rudd Dokter: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/future-looks-healthy-for-irish-football-says-rudd-dokter-453866.html

[pineapple stu]

"I'm doing a really good job", says man.

Bit of a nothing article really.

[bennocelt]

Says man over the head of development

Same time England win the under 19 euros. Didn't we win that once?

[geysir]

Says man over the head of development

Same time England win the under 19 euros. Didn't we win that once?
Yes Benno, but the man should be judged on his time here, not what happened a generation before his arrival.
Ruud does not remark upon his influence having effect or is in anyway self congratulatory in those few lines he's quoted as saying.

He came into a country where there was a dysfunctional structure in senior clubs from a culture in Netherlands where a community send their kids to their club and are a part of the club from cradle to grave, from generation to generation. Ajax don't just have an elite academy but have a plethora of underage teams playing at every grade at every underage level. It is the undisputed truth that the effect of a club having say a 100 - 200 underage teams both sexes, well coached and playing at all levels, is a club firmly rooted in the community with a solid base.

When Ruud arrived in Ireland the first thing he remarked upon was that LOI clubs should have functioning academies and a country level underage league.
He said he would not want his children to leave the country at age 15 or 16 to go abroad.
Some LOI clubs on their own steam have made great strides with developing their acadamies,
eg Shamrock Rovers have secured access to extra facilities, expanded their academy and have many teams competing in the district leagues..

What Ruud can be judged upon is any progress made with the elite players at underage intl level.
Coaching schools, the amount of qualified Pro, A and B coaches.
The establishment and effect of the underage national leagues.
Any FAI input since his arrival in supporting senior clubs to develop their academies.
Progress made in general with provision of (or access to) playing and training facilities, at sane prices.

[bennocelt]

thanks for the well thought out reply Geysir.......anyway like anything time will tell

[tetsujin1979]

Stephen Hunt: Ireland's international future looks bright thanks to smart underage tactics: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/stephen-hunt-irelands-international-future-looks-bright-thanks-to-smart-underage-tactics-36184746.html

[nigel-harps1954]

Stephen Hunt: Ireland's international future looks bright thanks to smart underage tactics: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/stephen-hunt-irelands-international-future-looks-bright-thanks-to-smart-underage-tactics-36184746.html

He still has such a skewed view of things though. It's still all about sending the best kids to England according to him. Things like "They will have time and a place to come through and be ready to play for English clubs and then be ready to get game time. " and "Hopefully this new desire to improve the development of young footballers in Ireland will also help those who don't make it."

Also, talk of the FAI 'taking guidance from English academies' is total nonsense. Why would Ruud Dokter follow a failed English example when the continental academies have been far more successful over the past twenty to thirty years?

He said himself, he was impressed by the standard of football and how the players were being taught to play when he watched Waterford play Cork in an under-15 game. I can't understand why the focus cannot be on the underage game in Ireland without some mention of England and sending players over there?

[mark12345]

He still has such a skewed view of things though. It's still all about sending the best kids to England according to him. Things like "They will have time and a place to come through and be ready to play for English clubs and then be ready to get game time. " and "Hopefully this new desire to improve the development of young footballers in Ireland will also help those who don't make it."

Also, talk of the FAI 'taking guidance from English academies' is total nonsense. Why would Ruud Dokter follow a failed English example when the continental academies have been far more successful over the past twenty to thirty years?

He said himself, he was impressed by the standard of football and how the players were being taught to play when he watched Waterford play Cork in an under-15 game. I can't understand why the focus cannot be on the underage game in Ireland without some mention of England and sending players over there?

I don't live in Ireland, but hopefully the coaches have the kids playing 5 a side football on small pitches??
Hopefully? Because not so long ago I read on here that many of them didn't.

[jbyrne]

Also, talk of the FAI 'taking guidance from English academies' is total nonsense. Why would Ruud Dokter follow a failed English example when the continental academies have been far more successful over the past twenty to thirty years?


to be fair to hunt his point here is in relation to ensuring the kids in the Irish underage set-ups get the football / education balance correct.

[Stuttgart88]

I had no real objection to what Hunt said. Nothing wrong with kids aspiring to going to England after they've learnt more here. Big difference between that and simply pimping kids to England at any level and at any age. Also, England were very successful at all underage levels this summer so maybe their system is not to be totally scoffed at. I think we all agree we need to control our destiny as much as possible, create conditions at home that beat going to England for most but not necessarily all our kids, and if kids are good enough to earn a good living in England without falling by the wayside too early, that's good too.

[nigel-harps1954]

I don't have any issue with a professional football looking to further their career and earn a bit more money for himself and his family, but the idea that we should be sending our best kids to England is something that needs to stop in my opinion, which is what Hunt is saying.

[tetsujin1979]

Wherever we want them to go or not, the best kids are always going to go to England.

[Siberian]

I don't live in Ireland, but hopefully the coaches have the kids playing 5 a side football on small pitches??
Hopefully? Because not so long ago I read on here that many of them didn't.

In fairness to them they do. I think all schoolboy leagues are playing small sided games in the age 7-11 category based on the FAI's player development plan. If they're not they should be and the FAI can't be blamed for that!

http://www.fai.ie/domestic/player-development-plan/about

[mark12345]

In fairness to them they do. I think all schoolboy leagues are playing small sided games in the age 7-11 category based on the FAI's player development plan. If they're not they should be and the FAI can't be blamed for that!

http://www.fai.ie/domestic/player-development-plan/about

Good to hear. We should be reaping the benefits of this in the next decade.

[mark12345]

Agree wholeheartedly Nigel and if Hunt is saying that, fair play to him.
It is certainly true that England is largely a graveyard for Irish kids' hopes of achieving fortune and fame in the game.
It's probably too much to expect to see our young lads heading to Spain, Italy and Germany, but I would be delighted to see them in places like Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Sweden.
No guarantees in football no matter where you go, but England has proved to be a dead duck over the last several years.

[samhaydenjr]

Agree wholeheartedly Nigel and if Hunt is saying that, fair play to him.
It is certainly true that England is largely a graveyard for Irish kids' hopes of achieving fortune and fame in the game.
It's probably too much to expect to see our young lads heading to Spain, Italy and Germany, but I would be delighted to see them in places like Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Sweden.
No guarantees in football no matter where you go, but England has proved to be a dead duck over the last several years.

If Ryan Nolan can make the breakthrough at Inter, it might inspire more youngsters to aim for clubs in these countries

[liamoo11]

Depressing article in one way, but if NI can do it, we should be able to use a similar model to develop players in the future.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/other-soccer/fai-bottom-of-the-class-for-player-development-34244549.html

The age group in this article will be this years under 16s who will play the north in the victory shield tournament which I think is on Next Week up north so it will be interesting to see if the north are vastly superior to us as that article says they were at under 14 level. The Scots fa streamed all these games live last year which was great anyone know if the ifa will be streaming them?

[DeLorean]

Piece by Oliver Key in the UK Times today - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/a-world-cup-but-then-what-for-struggling-irish-football-5zzvjl3mc


A World Cup but then what for struggling Irish football?

ood humour fills the air as the Friday night lights are switched on at Maginn Park, Buncrana, for the final time in a traumatic season. Derry City’s supporters still recall their first game at their temporary home last March, when the floodlights failed midway through the first half. “Make sure you’ve put your euro in the meter,” someone shouts. The light comes on, flickers and endures. There is a lusty cheer.

Welcome to the League of Ireland. The away dressing room is a portable cabin and the press box, perched on scaffolding, is reached via a ladder. The home players stop to chat with friends and family on their way to the pitch for the warm-up. Everyone seems to know everyone and there is a warmth, an intimacy, that is seldom found even at League Two level in England these days. Derry have been without a home all season while their Brandywell Stadium has been renovated, but there is a homely feel to Maginn Park, across the border in Co Donegal. A family atmosphere has been needed more than ever since fans, players and staff alike were stunned by the sudden death of their captain Ryan McBride in March.

For Derry’s fans, the final game of the season is all about paying tribute to McBride. For the visitors from St Patrick’s Athletic, in danger of being relegated for the first time in their 88-year history, it is a nerve-fraught evening. The match ends 1-1 and St Pats survive, with Galway United relegated instead. As the St Pat’s players and supporters salute each other in a post-match love-in, someone lets off a flare. Not for the first time that evening, the brooding figure of Roy Keane comes to mind. It is not hard to imagine what Keane, now the assistant manager of the Republic of Ireland, would make of fireworks to celebrate avoiding relegation or indeed of the friendliness that pervades the atmosphere throughout. Still, no corporate hospitality, so it is swings and roundabouts, really.

Tomorrow Northern Ireland face Switzerland at Windsor Park in the first leg of a World Cup qualification play-off. Forty-eight hours later, the Republic take on Denmark in Copenhagen. Both Irish nations surpassed expectations by qualifying for Euro 2016, going on to reach the knockout stage, and are now 180 minutes from a place at next summer’s World Cup finals in Russia. Against a backdrop of handwringing both north and south of the border — worries about poor facilities at club and grassroots level, a lack of qualified coaches and a declining number of players finding their way to the promised land of the Premier League — that seems as extraordinary as it does uplifting.

The Republic fell to 70th in the Fifa world rankings in 2013 but have risen to 26th under Martin O’Neill. Northern Ireland’s transformation under Michael O’Neill, from 119th in April 2013 to 23rd in the latest rankings, is even more striking. It looks like a glorious period for Irish football, on both sides of the border, but there is concern about what lies ahead, about where the next generation of players is coming from.

Of the 27 players in the Republic’s squad for their play-off games, 12 are aged 30 or over and, of the remainder, only five (Ciaran Clark, James McClean, David Meyler, Robbie Brady and Jeff Hendrick) have 20 or more caps. A spate of international retirements is expected once this World Cup campaign is over — whether that is in Dublin after the second leg next Tuesday or in Russia next summer.

The situation is similarly stark in the Northern Ireland squad; of 27 players, 12 are over the age of 30 and there is a lack of top-level pedigree among many of the remainder. Their only four Premier League players are Gareth McAuley, 37, Chris Brunt, 32, Steven Davis, also 32, and Jonny Evans, 29. Their progress under Michael O’Neill has defied all odds and expectations, a triumph of spirit and organisation, but the job is only going to get harder. “Is there a conveyor belt of players coming through?”

Kenny Shiels, the Derry manager, asks with regard to both Northern Ireland and the Republic. “Probably not, so both countries will probably find themselves looking again to players with English accents. That doesn’t sit well with me. We have to try to develop better players. That’s not easy.”

The Premier League is not the be-all and end-all, but player development in Northern Ireland and the Republic is typically judged on how many players make it “across the water”. While the number of English players appearing in the Premier League has fallen steadily over the past two and a half decades, figures from the Republic initially held up well as Shay Given, John O’Shea, Richard Dunne, Damien Duff, Robbie Keane and others established themselves at leading English clubs.

Players from the Republic (including those who have switched allegiance on the basis of dual nationality) made 663 Premier League appearances in the 1992-93 season, which climbed to 759 in 2003-04 and to a high of 768 in 2011-12. That figure has dropped sharply in each of the past five seasons — from 768 to 575 to 501 to 480 to 424 to 400 last term. The projected figure for this season is 321, led by Brady, Shane Duffy, Stephen Ward, Shane Long, McClean and Hendrick as well as three English-born players in Rob Elliot, Clark and Harry Arter.

The equivalent figures for Northern Ireland are no less troubling. From a peak of 333 in the 1994-95 campaign, the number of Premier League appearances made by Northern Irish players fell to 154 last season. This season’s projected figure is 100. These figures are not cited to downplay the importance of any other league — the League of Ireland, the NIFL Premiership or indeed the Sky Bet Championship or Scottish Premiership — but to reflect the reality. The best players from Northern Ireland and the Republic are always urged to pursue careers in England or at the biggest Scottish clubs, whether joining an academy at 16 or trying, like Ward with Bohemians, Seamus Coleman with Sligo Rovers or McClean with Derry, to make the jump a little further down the line.

Unlike in the 1990s, there is no longer the expectation of an Irish contingent in the dressing room of every Premier League academy. “The world has changed,” one figure in the Republic says. “Our best lads don’t have the Liverpools and the Manchester Uniteds fighting over them like they did in the past. Those clubs are trawling the world for the best young talent. Also, the development structures here are in desperate need of modernisation.

“You could have two brilliant eight-year-olds — one in Manchester, one in Dublin. One goes to Manchester City’s academy from the age of eight, gets the best possible coaching, signs for them at 16. The other goes to one of the local clubs in Dublin, like Home Farm, Belvedere, Cherry Orchard or St Kevin’s. Those clubs do a brilliant job, but they can’t match what the English clubs are laying on, training-wise, facilities-wise, education-wise, from a young age. So how does the boy from Dublin fulfil his potential? Even if he goes to City at 16, he’s trying to make up for lost time.”

This realisation has increased pressure on both the FA of Ireland (FAI) and Northern Irish FA (IFA) to make significant investments in youth development. Unlike in England, the clubs cannot meet the cost. The FAI set up “emerging talent centres” across the Republic as well as 11 “centres of excellence” at regional level for the best young players. The IFA has launched its own initiatives aimed both at doubling participation in football by 2025 and identifying the best prospects.

The FAI invested “more than €20 million” (£17.6 million) in grassroots football last year. According to the many critics of the FAI’s chief executive, John Delaney, that is not enough. There is more money in football than in hurling or Gaelic football, but those sports, which draw far bigger crowds, are not in competition with other European nations.

The feeling among many League of Ireland clubs is that their competition has become an afterthought, with money steered towards the national team. The argument, increasingly, is that without investment at club level, the national team cannot hope to sustain their resurgence. Clubs ask where the next generation of international players are coming from. Increasingly, apart from the old fallback option of exploiting the ancestry rules, the answer is the League of Ireland and the NIFL Premiership.

“Those who play over here for a few years and go over to England a little later have a better chance of making it, in my view, than those who leave at 16,” Shiels says. “A lot go away at 16, come back at 19 and don’t even play football after that.

“You look at what James McClean has done. He was here at Derry. So was Shane Duffy. So was Niall McGinn [the Northern Ireland forward], who went to Celtic. But there needs to be investment in the league.”

[DeLorean]

Continued-


There are similar stories all over Europe — domestic leagues struggling as the biggest, richest and most powerful clubs, the Champions League elite, reduce everything else to a sideshow. This was always a challenge in Ireland, where English football is so popular, but the challenges are far greater in the elitist, multimedia age. Then there is hurling and Gaelic football to compete with. The recent All-Ireland finals were watched by 82,000-plus capacity crowds at Croke Park and by many more on television. By contrast, there were 24,210 at the Aviva Stadium for last weekend’s FA Cup final, won by Cork City to complete the double.

Attendances in the NIFL Premiership are even more challenging. Just 2,119 were at Windsor Park to watch Linfield defeat Ards 2-0. It will be a very different atmosphere when Northern Ireland take on Switzerland.

In Northern Ireland and the Republic, so much hope is invested in the national team. For those teams to keep competing, though, once a generation moves on and these O’Neill-driven success stories are over, the domestic game, too, needs investment. World Cup qualification would bring a much-needed boost.

Two countries aiming for a place in Russia

Population
N Ireland 1.85m
Ireland 4.77m

Stadiums
NI Windsor Park, home of national team and Linfield. Capacity 18,434
Ireland Aviva Stadium, formerly Lansdowne Road. Capacity 51,700. Also hosts rugby union internationals

Domestic leagues
NI Danske Bank Premiership, 12 teams.The current leaders are Coleraine. Most successful team: Linfield, 52 titles
Ireland SSE Airtricity League of Ireland, 12 teams.
Cork won the double last season. Most successful team: Shamrock Rovers, 17 titles

Most caps
NI Pat Jennings, goalkeeper 119 caps.
Ireland Robbie Keane, forward, 146 caps.

Top scorers
NI David Healy 36 goals. Current squad: Kyle Lafferty 20 goals
Ireland Robbie Keane 68 goals Current squad: Jon Walters 14 goals

Premier League players
NI 4
Ireland 11

Biggest transfers
NI Jonny Evans, Man Utd to West Brom, £6m
Ireland James McCarthy, Wigan to Everton, £13m

Managers
NI Michael O’Neill, steered team to 20th in Fifa rankingsMost successful Billy Bingham, 15 years in the job, won Home Internationals in 1980 and 1984
Ireland Martin O’NeillMost successful Jack Charlton. Took Ireland to Euro 1988 and 1990 and 1994 World Cups

[liamoo11]

Oliver key needs to speak to Dan McDonnell sure the north are vastly superior at youth development

[Olé Olé]

Oliver key needs to speak to Dan McDonnell sure the north are vastly superior at youth development

What a bad article. No mention of that club pulling up trees- Club NI. Imbalanced article without it.

[gastric]

Oliver key needs to speak to Dan McDonnell sure the north are vastly superior at youth development

I posted this article somewhere on here in the past and I felt it had some merit then. Reading it again now, despite a silly dramatic headline, I feel McDonnell is emphasising the fact that the NI's elite players are meeting and training 3 times a week, compared to ours meeting once a week. His comments on schoolboy football may be wrong now as the article is from 2015. The other thing I took from the article is this is a plan and from Stephen Bradley's perspective it was beginning to reap some benefits. With such plans, it can take years to really see the benefits too, so is McDonnell completely wrong in his comments? I am out of the loop on such things, but would love to hear where schoolboy development is presently at in Ireland.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/other-soccer/fai-bottom-of-the-class-for-player-development-34244549.html

[Olé Olé]

Am I wrong in saying that not everything Stephen Bradley says is right? I think he's been found out to be a bit of a mouthpiece. But, look, Dan could hang his hat on Bradley's comment at the time in a fairly one-dimensional article.

[DannyInvincible]

Kenny Shiels appears to believe Shane Duffy played for Derry. Shane came through Foyle Harps and went straight to Everton from them.

[Charlie Darwin]

Am I wrong in saying that not everything Stephen Bradley says is right? I think he's been found out to be a bit of a mouthpiece. But, look, Dan could hang his hat on Bradley's comment at the time in a fairly one-dimensional article.
Bradser has his head screwed on and he's backing it up on the ground. He's widely ridiculed within the league, and unfairly so.

[Olé Olé]

Bradser has his head screwed on and he's backing it up on the ground. He's widely ridiculed within the league, and unfairly so.

Fair enough to 'Bradser', he's proving that he knows his stuff but he still finds young players to pick without having to venture up North for them. I'm more referring to the fact that he appears to fly off the handle with comments and maybe they're not always thought through.

[Olé Olé]

And McDonnell uses one tweet from Bradley some sort of stonewall evidence regarding the grim future of our underage sides.

Shoddy article and one he should be pinned for. I wonder how many players in the current under 16 side featured that day?

[Kingdom]

I've a pretty long-winded point about what I see in small-sided football here. Most coaches at this stage have some form of coaching badges. I don't necessarily believe that what they are being coached is correct. I was told recently that children do not need to be coached defensively for the small-sided ages. I disagree with that completely. I very rarely hear opposition coaches talk to their players about communication. For me, communication is as important as movement.

I've seen a lot of small-sided football this decade. The standard across the board is rising. I played at a very good level underage in Dublin. The quality of football across a team is now much superior to when I played. Perhaps the individual players might be a touch below - that's a possibility - but the actual teams are far better. I've seen a little bit of youth football, and again the standard is staggering.

I have no worry at all about this countries ability to produce players of sufficient standard. What does worry me is the LOI's ability to be assisted by the FAI in creating a product capable of sustaining and supporting the players that are going to come through the new national underage leagues

[liamoo11]

And McDonnell uses one tweet from Bradley some sort of stonewall evidence regarding the grim future of our underage sides.

Shoddy article and one he should be pinned for. I wonder how many players in the current under 16 side featured that day?

Can someone tweet him and ask him to justify that article on his twitter.i tried to troll him but I'm not really social media savvy.

[DeLorean]

Some gloomy reading on a Tuesday morning - http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/rebuilding-the-supply-of-talent-in-irish-football-464661.html

[Cathalsmart]

I'd say these journalists secretly love seeing the Irish team struggle as with so many doom merchant's on this island their is so much potential to write clickbait and get views.

[tetsujin1979]

It's not a bad article, and there's more to come tomorrow, but I'd like to see more made of the recent successes at underage level. No mention of Ogbene's recent trials in England either.

[DannyInvincible]

Some gloomy reading on a Tuesday morning - http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/rebuilding-the-supply-of-talent-in-irish-football-464661.html

That's a good overview of some of the differing perspectives and competing politics at national youth development level. However, the overall message is unfortunately rather gloomy, as you say. I thought these comments by Terry O’Donovan of Cork's College Corinthians were telling and potentially ominous (but hopefully they prove not to be):


"The Dublin Schoolboys league — the best league in the country — went over to play Everton last year with their U13s. Everton had to put out a team a year younger to make it a fair match. The English academies are so strong. The Irish kids are competing against players from all over the world. Plus you see England are getting success at U17 and U19 level. Full of big, strong, powerful players.

So the FAI had a dilemma. And this is the solution they dreamt up. The principle is right, but money talks. If the FAI had money to structure it properly, put proper coaches in place, it would have a much better chance.

But finance is a problem. Can we afford to run U15 National Leagues, U13 leagues? The League of Ireland clubs can’t really afford it. But it’s being forced on them. Will it work, I don’t know. Time will tell."


It's not a bad article, and there's more to come tomorrow, but I'd like to see more made of the recent successes at underage level. No mention of Ogbene's recent trials in England either.

Looking forward to tomorrow's instalment. Maybe Ogbene will get a mention then as the LOI view will feature. Has there been any update on his current situation, by the way? Who was he with before Cork?

[osarusan]

Some gloomy reading on a Tuesday morning - http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/rebuilding-the-supply-of-talent-in-irish-football-464661.html

Every time we miss out on a tournament, or even suffer a defeat that really exposes our limitations, we get the same laments about the underage teams and development and wondering where the players are going to come from. It's an easy piece for a journalist to write, but the reality is that far too few people actually care about developing underage talent.

At least this time we seem to have been spared the pie-in-the-sky notions of an Irish premier league team, or a Celtic league, or any of that knee-jerk rubbish.

[nigel-harps1954]

Some gloomy reading on a Tuesday morning - http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/rebuilding-the-supply-of-talent-in-irish-football-464661.html

The main thing I pick from that article is the continuing moaning of schoolboys clubs about the money they're going to miss out on with schoolboys now going to League of Ireland clubs.
None of them spoke of growing the game in Ireland.

The article references, over and over again, the lack of players coming through in England. None of the article references trying to grow the game in Ireland, outside of Dokters contribution.

Feck the schoolboys clubs. If they're only willing to think about themselves then they don't deserve the money.

It's a good thing that more players are CHOOSING to stay at home.

We may not have the finances yet, but we're going in the right direction. It's attitudes that need to change in this country above all else. People need to start pulling in the one direction if we're to see any long term benefit.

[Kingdom]

What annoys me, and I mean it properly annoys me, is that we continually look to the Premier League - and not just the run-of-the-mill clubs like West Brom, or Burnley - and specifically the big 6 and the traditional clubs who year in year out bring through fantastic kids to the first team.

We're a small country, with no professional football history - generally speaking. We're comparing our kids against one of the biggest countries in Europe with the greatest money. It's ridiculous. We cannot and will never be able to compare to the academies of the Premier League. I really like the idea of the Underage National Leagues, but it needs to be supported financially, properly, by the FAI. I really like the question raised connecting the "non0competitive" element - that's an oxymoron for anyone who's watched an elite under 11 game in the DDSL - with the sudden impact of under 13 national league football.

I think as well, some of the "coaching" that these super schoolboy clubs are offering is over-rated. They whinge about the LOI clubs pinching their best players? WTF have they done to every community club that has ever had a decent team going back the last 30 years? The exact same. Pilfer and pillage.

I'll throw my hands up and say straight out that I don't have a lot of time for Liam Brady. He is giving a perspective from Arsenal point of view. Arsenal. They have the pick of the best players in the world, and regularly do just that. I remember them signing one Irish International a very talented creative midfielder, and the very same week signed the Italian and German (possibly) international equivalent. They don't give a sh1t. They do the same as what our "elite" schoolboy clubs do: they angle to sign the best players they can, put them together, and let them sink or swim. If they get one through to the first team every 2nd season great, if not, they'll discard the rest for fees that cover the running of their academy.

We want to genuinely see what models to follow? Go to a Southampton; Go to a Genk; go to the non-mega clubs who consistently produce kids for first-team football that we can potentially emulate.

[Kingdom]

Or what Nigel-Harps said. No biggie.

[DeLorean]

I'll throw my hands up and say straight out that I don't have a lot of time for Liam Brady.

I kind of like Brady as a person but find myself repeatedly underwhelmed by his contributions. With the football background that he has he really should have a lot more interesting things to say that aren't as obvious or well known to the average Joe Soap.

[Stuttgart88]

I kind of like Brady as a person but find myself repeatedly underwhelmed by his contributions. With the football background that he has he really should have a lot more interesting things to say that aren't as obvious or well known to the average Joe Soap.His comments are the same ones he made 10 years ago, and about the same players. He really doesn't come across as well informed at all.