2011 Presidential Election

[Mr A]

I wasn't saying it was relevant what other parties did, my point was directly aimed at your comment, which I believe to be crap to be blunt. I think the press have examined in great detail what the IRA have done. How can you say different?



I said no such thing. My point was that SF and their supporters cannot (with any credibility) simply dismiss discussion of McGuinness's past in the presidential campaign. He chose to stand but he doesn't get to choose what questions are asked of him.

I don't see why examination of the IRA campaign is to be regarded as a bad thing anyway. They did what they did and should be judged on that. SF supporters may feel it was a worthwhile enterprise, other will not.

While it's off the topic, I'm not aware of anything on the former Workers Party/ DL guys that comes with an ass's roar of what is in McG's part and don't accept for a moment that the media wouldn't have gone after it if it was there.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

I said no such thing. My point was that SF and their supporters cannot (with any credibility) simply dismiss discussion of McGuinness's past in the presidential campaign. He chose to stand but he doesn't get to choose what questions are asked of him.

I don't see why examination of the IRA campaign is to be regarded as a bad thing anyway. They did what they did and should be judged on that. SF supporters may feel it was a worthwhile enterprise, other will not.

While it's off the topic, I'm not aware of anything on the former Workers Party/ DL guys that comes with an ass's roar of what is in McG's part and don't accept for a moment that the media wouldn't have gone after it if it was there.

This is what you said. No matter what context you were talking in it's garbage. In my opinion of course.


To me the whole point of the SF campaign is to sanitise and legitimise their role in the troubles- hence McGuinness took part in street battles against the British Army, but the bulk of what the IRA spent their time doing is conveniently ignored.

Ignored by whom? We never heard the end of it and people are perfectly entitled to question everything, I did myself as a republican, people losing their lives is serious business and not to be taken lightly. But that said I'm intrigued to know who you think ignored largely what the IRA did. There are former members of the OIRA, whom McGuinness was first a member, and I think, was a member of on Bloody Sunday, who in a position of decision making power in the Irish states government. Where do you draw the line if McGuinness is not suitable.

But should the IRA be made held accountable for their actions? Of course. But I think it's been done to death already and then some!

[osarusan]

Ignored by whom?...

But that said I'm intrigued to know who you think ignored largely what the IRA did.
He's saying that Sinn Fein have ignored what the IRA did. It couldn't be any more obvious, even in the sentence you quoted.

[Mr A]

It is ignored by SF in their comments on the troubles so far. To judge on those, McGuinness only played the part I mentioned in the troubles. I feel this is deliberately and transparently misleading. Which was what my point was.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

It is ignored by SF in their comments on the troubles so far. To judge on those, McGuinness only played the part I mentioned in the troubles. I feel this is deliberately and transparently misleading. Which was what my point was.

SF were grilled about everything they did, they always had to answer for what the IRA did. Again, you must have been asleep during the conflict or not read papers during that time.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

He's saying that Sinn Fein have ignored what the IRA did. It couldn't be any more obvious, even in the sentence you quoted.

Well it wasn't to me so I asked for clarification.

And thanks Mr A you did, appreciated.

[Dodge]

SF were grilled about everything they did, they always had to answer for what the IRA did. Again, you must have been asleep during the conflict or not read papers during that time.

There's a huge difference between 'having to answer' and actually answering.

BTW Chucky, can exiles vote in the presidential elections? Not stirring, just wondering if they're different to other elections

[TiocfaidhArmani]

There's a huge difference between 'having to answer' and actually answering.

BTW Chucky, can exiles vote in the presidential elections? Not stirring, just wondering if they're different to other elections

Not as far as I know mate, you need to be registered to vote in the 26 counties, I'm still registered at the parents so if I can I'll be voting.

I think they generally have said if something was wrong and it shouldn't have happened they will say it. I'm not sure what else they can do. They didn't plan it and carry it out so what can you say other than it was wrong. I've not seen them defend the likes of Enniskillen or Shankill bomb but not sure what else they can be grilled on that they haven't been already and what else they can say when they didn't carry out the attack themselves.

[legendz]

It is a 7 horse race. I ave to say FG have a poor candidate. After the elections earlier in the year, I thought they could've fielded a better candidate, some like Sean Kelly. The election will be a good chance not to vote for Dana though she does get a bit of unfair press to be fair. Does anyone know much about Mary Davis? She seems to have done well in her role with the Special Olympics. When the campaign gets dirty is there mud that'll be thrown at her? I'm not surprised for now that she is transfer friendly. I'm surprised Higgins is getting so much backing. Gallagher hasn't impressed at all in my opinion.

[geysir]

Yet another major blow for the Norris presidential campaign today,
oops, strike that,
Norris has managed to gain the crucial support of a 4th council.
Lucky bugger.

[legendz]

What's the story about some 7 letters he is not releasing? Is that just paper talk or is there actually some substance behind it?

[bennocelt]

Just an interesting link as some people on here think the IRA were created in a vacuum
http://www.wsm.ie/c/secret-documents-reveal-british-state-collusion

[Lionel Ritchie]

Just an interesting link as some people on here think the IRA were created in a vacuum
http://www.wsm.ie/c/secret-documents-reveal-british-state-collusion

Having just dropped the bombshell that the UDR were hopelessly compromised by loyalist paramilitary infiltration - who gave the more thought-out and measured response* -Martin McGuinness? Seamus Mallon? Gerry Fitt? John Hume? Other?

*(making the groundless assumption for a moment that all Republican hell raising was re-active to state supported loyalist murder gangs).

[Macy]

Does anyone know much about Mary Davis? She seems to have done well in her role with the Special Olympics. When the campaign gets dirty is there mud that'll be thrown at her? I'm not surprised for now that she is transfer friendly. I'm surprised Higgins is getting so much backing. Gallagher hasn't impressed at all in my opinion.
Mary Davis appears to have FF skeletons in the closet. She was appointed to a number of state boards that have no direct link to her area's of interest (such as Aer Rianta). We know from Bartholomew that he only appointed people because they were friends of his, not on their skills or suitability. Whether she's enough of a threat for anyone to really go digging though, is a different question.

Not sure why the surprise about Higgins - most of the rest of the candidates are too divisive. His only intervention in the debacle so far has to be make sure Norris is on the ticket!

Gallagher has given up - he's not even bothering with posters, under the cover of the tidy towns.


What's the story about some 7 letters he is not releasing? Is that just paper talk or is there actually some substance behind it?
If there's no issue, then why not release them? If it's more of the same what's the problem? I think it was on the News at One yesterday or the day before that there inconsistencies in his story about what he knew and when.


Just an interesting link as some people on here think the IRA were created in a vacuum
http://www.wsm.ie/c/secret-documents-reveal-british-state-collusion
So the IRA were just some defensive organisation, for their entire active period, who only targeted occupying forces? I think I was pretty clear earlier that I don't have a problem with him running and see alot of the commentary as hypocritical, but seriously, this revisionist nonsense doesn't help anyone, least of all McGuinness

Just as a btw, even though several Labour members of Government have an Officials background, it should be noted that the Democratic Left split out of the Workers Party to sever any remaining link with the OIRA. Just as it's been brought up a few times (including by me!).

[geysir]

Having just dropped the bombshell that the UDR were hopelessly compromised by loyalist paramilitary infiltration - who gave the more thought-out and measured response* -Martin McGuinness? Seamus Mallon? Gerry Fitt? John Hume? Other?
All very fine for some folk to talk about appropriate responses,

Seamus Mallon, I have a lot of respect for, he wouldn't think twice to drag himself out of bed at the behest of a constitituent, go down to the local ruc station and hammer the door down until he was allowed to see the arrested kids in person, check their mortal state and berate the Ruc
When there was a suspect bomb discovered near the Brandywell before their biggest game in recent history, like Derry City fc, I'd call Marty and ask him to bring some rope. Different strokes for different folk.

All very fine for some folk to talk about appropriate responses and maybe even quote some sweet words from the hyped up hypocrite, Mohandas Gandhi, to support their stance.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

*(making the groundless assumption for a moment that all Republican hell raising was re-active to state supported loyalist murder gangs).

Not during the whole conflict, but it certainly spawned as a reaction to events on the ground caused by the reaction of loyalists and the British state.

[culloty82]

Now that the nomination deadline has passed, time for the traditional Foot.ie poll?

[Macy]

time for the traditional Foot.ie poll?
Do we really need another summer v winter football poll?

[Mr A]

Now that the nomination deadline has passed, time for the traditional Foot.ie poll?

Sure why not: http://foot.ie/threads/157304-2011-Presidential-Election-Start-of-Campaign-Poll