Rugby now more popular than football AND GAA?!

[Jinxy]

Jinxy, he wrote a piece a few years back "50 reasons why GAA is better than football" and followed up after we lost at home to France with a really dismissive piece about Irish football and its supporters ("We're not going to South Africa and nobody will care"). He's categorically a GAA man first and foremost, Bennocelt is fully correct.

That article was written in the context of how we like to perceive ourselves on the world stage i.e. worlds greatest fans, everyone loves the Irish etc.
His point was that the world cup would manage just fine without us and by the time it came around Thierry Henrys handball would be a distant memory as far as the rest of the football world was concerned.
He didn't mean WE wouldn't care.

[paul_oshea]

Jinxy, he wrote a piece a few years back "50 reasons why GAA is better than football" and followed up after we lost at home to France with a really dismissive piece about Irish football and its supporters ("We're not going to South Africa and nobody will care"). He's categorically a GAA man first and foremost, Bennocelt is fully correct.

that wasnt always the case tho, further back he wasnt like that and was well into the "soccer". I think a few incidents turned him against it, which you don't really get in Gaa.

[Stuttgart88]

True enough.

[jbyrne]

Then why are you arguing with me?

discussing! you said the rugby crowd couldnt wait to get rid of the shakles the FAI tied them to. maybe you werent putting it forward as your own thoughts but thats how i read it

[Jinxy]

In fairness I phrased it badly but what I meant was the rugby fans viewed the IRFU as being 'shackled' to the FAI.
Now that doesn't make it true necessarily but it is a view that is quite widely held in my experience.
Most of the rugger heads I know would be south dublin based so they are the hardcore Ross O'Carroll-Kelly types in fairness.

[Charlie Darwin]

Rugger heads are no more representative of the general rugby population as we are of the general barstooling population. The IRFU and FAI have a very good relationship that benefits both sides and sport on the island in general and long may it continue, no matter how upset it makes people on message boards.

[Stuttgart88]

It's pretty big, attendances for Munster and Leinster regularly top 15,000 each. The recent game between the two sides at the Aviva stadium set a new attendance record for the competition - 50,645Any idea how the TV viewing numbers (300k+ mentioned earlier) compares with, for example, a Man United or other English club game live on TV, or a Champions League game?

[tetsujin1979]

Any idea how the TV viewing numbers (300k+ mentioned earlier) compares with, for example, a Man United or other English club game live on TV, or a Champions League game?
I don't know, have the ratings for this year's Champions League games been released yet?

[geysir]

That Munster Leinster game was on TG4.
300k sounds a lot, considering the question - just how many Rugby fans would have been able to find this station on their tv?

[Stuttgart88]

Any idea what a Man United game would have got this time last year?

[geysir]

Looking at these tables, Man U v Bayern & v Barca attracted fewer viewers than an Ireland friendly.

Viewing figures (http://tvsales.rte.ie/insights/topsports.htm)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Rugby fans have more money and there's less games which helps its profile.

[Charlie Darwin]

There are 13-14 rugby internationals a year...

[geysir]

They have 4 friendlies in a row coming up, maybe the IRFU are more desperate for funds.
What was usual in a season, 2 or 3 Six nations and 2 or 3 profile friendlies any time Australia/NZ /SA and now Argentina, would visit. In a WC year, you get a few more friendlies.

[Stuttgart88]

6 nations means 5 games Geysir!

I think the autumn internationals have always been 3 games, no?

WC year maybe means 4.

[ArdeeBhoy]

There are 13-14 rugby internationals a year...

Except they're not all at home. And meant the sport in general, FFS.

Also in the case of Ireland, being an all-island team helps, ;)

[paul_oshea]

6 nations means 5 games Geysir!

I think the autumn internationals have always been 3 games, no?

WC year maybe means 4.

home games he means....autumn internationals have always been 3.

[Charlie Darwin]

You can't mean both "the sport in general" and "at home," unless you consider English Premier League matches to be "home"

[geysir]

I kinda assumed that ArdeeBhoy's reference to Rugby supporters - having more money and fewer games to attend, was in regards to home intl. games.

[Stuttgart88]

I wasn't paying attention to the context. My error.

[Charlie Darwin]

I kinda assumed that ArdeeBhoy's reference to Rugby supporters - having more money and fewer games to attend, was in regards to home intl. games.
But it's still not true. Rugby fans get a minimum of five competitive home internationals a year plus at least three Heineken Cup games (unless you're from Connacht). We get maybe three competitive games a year, three and a half if we reach a play-off.

[ArdeeBhoy]

You can't mean both "the sport in general" and "at home," unless you consider English Premier League matches to be "home"

Huh? No EPL games are played in Ireland! Though don't dispute they're not watched.....

[ArdeeBhoy]

But it's still not true. Rugby fans get a minimum of five competitive home internationals a year plus at least three Heineken Cup games (unless you're from Connacht). We get maybe three competitive games a year, three and a half if we reach a play-off.

Yeah but there's nothing like the amount of rugby union played compared to soccer which is almost year round in various guises.

Rugby might more be comparable to the GAA....

[geysir]

But it's still not true. Rugby fans get a minimum of five competitive home internationals a year plus at least three Heineken Cup games (unless you're from Connacht). We get maybe three competitive games a year, three and a half if we reach a play-off.

In rugby there is a minimum of 2 competitive home internationals games p/a , every other year there are 3 competitive home internationals.

Not that I give a sh'ite about rugby. But even that 6 Nations competition has dropped a few notches since the World Cup has gathered pace.
The Triple Crown should have stayed invisible.
I hope for the sake of 'Brand Ireland' that those Rugby lads get their act together at the next World Cup and avoid the scrap for the wooden spoon with some dignity.

[Charlie Darwin]

All rugby games are competitive.

[Stuttgart88]

Looks like a lot of empty seats in the old East Lower at the Aviva in the rugby match (v Sth Africa). Only 5 mins gone, maybe there's been traffic or other problems.

[tetsujin1979]

Looks like a lot of empty seats in the old East Lower at the Aviva in the rugby match (v Sth Africa). Only 5 mins gone, maybe there's been traffic or other problems.
Ticket prices have affected the sales of tickets for all games. Only the All Blacks game is close to selling out apparently.

Ryle Nugent just mentioned it's about 3/4 full, and that it's unfortunate to not have a full house for the first home game at the new stadium

[Stuttgart88]

Why have the Irish people abandoned the national rugby team? :)

[SUB of the day]

Why have the Irish people abandoned the national rugby team? :) 35000 fans for the visit of the World Champions, and people scoffed at 40,000 for the game versus the mighty Andorra in Football.

[MeathDrog]

Any ideas for the reasons of this? Effects of recession, or just people fed up over not getting value for money? Was shocking to see such a low crowd. Could you imagine how embarrassing it would have looked if we were still playing in Croke Park.

[boovidge]

I reckon it's a combination

recession
high ticket and general matchday costs
ticket coupling with midweek friendly
rugby bandwagon taking attention from the football

[Drumcondra 69er]

Any ideas for the reasons of this? Effects of recession, or just people fed up over not getting value for money? Was shocking to see such a low crowd. Could you imagine how embarrassing it would have looked if we were still playing in Croke Park.

Recession, definitely. Was the same last recession for the Euro 88 qualifiers, selling out stadiums for every game was something that really only started in the latter end of the 1990 qualifiers.

Plus we haven't qualified for anything for a decade, if it looks like qualification is on the cards the crowds will increase. Tickets are overpriced too, the FAI mad an unmerciful boll1x of ticketing for the new ground every step of the way.

[Murfinator]

It's an indication of the low popularity of Soccer in the country at present. It's sadly becoming an increasingly irrelevant sport to the masses probably due to our failure to qualify for anything in 9 years.

To compare to similar competitive rugby fixtures, both our France and England games had a capacity 51,000 crowd. Even all of the uncompetetive autumn rugby internationals had a higher attendance than this one, the lowest being Somoa at 31,000. So the excuse of "recession" just isn't holding water for me, I just don't think soccer is especially popular anymore.

[Drumcondra 69er]

It's an indication of the low popularity of Soccer in the country at present. It's sadly becoming an increasingly irrelevant sport to the masses probably due to our failure to qualify for anything in 9 years.

To compare to similar competitive rugby fixtures, both our France and England games had a capacity 51,000 crowd. Even all of the uncompetetive autumn rugby internationals had a higher attendance than this one, the lowest being Somoa at 31,000. So the excuse of "recession" just isn't holding water for me, I just don't think soccer is especially popular anymore.

Rubbish, you can't compare a six nations game against Englkand or France with a qualifier against Macedonia. If we were playing England or France in a qualifier the stadium would have sold out. The rugby crowds for the autumn internationals were abysmal.

[Bungle]

There are a number of factors at play.

The recession is a massive one. Many of my friends who have a real interest in the Irish team and Irish players just don't have the money to go to the games.
This ties in with the cost of the ticket - 45 euro for a game against an average at best European team. Put this in context....if you're unemployed or worried about losing your job, then it's difficult to justify paying that much if you have a family. Even those in steady jobs like public sector workers have taken pay cuts and may often be in negative equity. Throw in the cost for the supporters from around the country in getting to Dublin and it's an expensive day out.

The FAI should have charged 25 euro and 40 euro instead of 45/60. That would have made a big difference to the attendance.

[Noelys Guitar]

Success, success, success and prices. Ireland v Holland under Hand 28,000. 2-1. Next home game v Belgium sell out. The Irish Rugby crew know in their heart of hearts that Rugby will never be a game for the masses. They will never be able to match Ireland v Italy QF or Ireland v Spain last 16. The potential of an Ireland team doing even better than a quarter finals at a major tournatment cannot be matched. The prices for matches now are ridiculous compared to the 70's/80's and most of the 90's. Reduced prices and continued success will see full stadiums.

[shakermaker1982]

I don't mind paying 45 to 60 euros for a big team like Holland, France, Spain etc (top seeds) but the other games should be a lot cheaper. The FAI needs to drop their prices again.

I've just had a quick check to see what England are charging for the friendly against Ghana in midweek and it seems a bit more sensible.

Ticket Prices £40, £30, £25, £20
Family Enclosure £20 Adults/£10 Children under 16

[Drumcondra 69er]

They ned to decouple the competitive games from the friendlies at this stage, it was fair enough when there was plenty of cash about but having to get a Tuesday ticket in addition to the ticket for last night definitely puts people off especially anyone from outside Dublin who'll travel for a Saturday game but would struggle to make it midweek.

[Bungle]

I don't mind paying 45 to 60 euros for a big team like Holland, France, Spain etc (top seeds) but the other games should be a lot cheaper. The FAI needs to drop their prices again.

I've just had a quick check to see what England are charging for the friendly against Ghana in midweek and it seems a bit more sensible.

Ticket Prices £40, £30, £25, £20
Family Enclosure £20 Adults/£10 Children under 16

Spot on. I went with a German mate (might as well be Irish) who said the same thing. He said you could justify it for Russia (maybe Slovakia) but not Macedonia, Armenia and Andorra. He was telling me how in Germany you can see games at top teams for 10-15 euro and get very cheap season tickets.

English football is a rip off in comparison.

[Murfinator]

Rubbish, you can't compare a six nations game against Englkand or France with a qualifier against Macedonia. If we were playing England or France in a qualifier the stadium would have sold out. The rugby crowds for the autumn internationals were abysmal.

And yet these abysmal crowds were still better than Macedonia. Are you saying a friendly game to Samoa is more attractive than a qualifier to Macedonia? Because the Samoa friendly still had more people attending. Claim rubbish all you like, your ignoring the true reason here.

People will pay money for meaningless rugby games over meaningful soccer games because of the popularity of the respective sports in the country.

[Colbert Report]

They need to decouple the competitive games from the friendlies at this stage.

Won't happen, nobody would buy tickets to the friendlies if that were the case. They should just get rid of having so many friendlies anyway, nobody cares about them, but money talks...

[Drumcondra 69er]

And yet these abysmal crowds were still better than Macedonia. Are you saying a friendly game to Samoa is more attractive than a qualifier to Macedonia? Because the Samoa friendly still had more people attending. Claim rubbish all you like, your ignoring the true reason here.

33,000 was the attendance estimated last night, Samoa was 31,000 according to yourself. Pretty sure that Samoa was sold as part of a package with a more attractive game which bumped up the atendance.

You're ignoring the history of football attendances in Ireland, I can remember Brazil attracting a crowd of less then 20,000 back in 1987.....

[Murfinator]

They quote 30,000 here.
http://www.soccer-ireland.com/irish-qualifying-campaigns/euro-2012.htm

Either way comparative figures between the unattractive half of a rugby friendly duo and the attractive qualifier in soccer doesn't bode well for the sport. And at the very least you can't chalk it down to recession when another sport is pulling the numbers for even its most insignificant games. Nor history since I'm sure Irish rugby was in an even worse state for attendance in 1987.

[Stuttgart88]

In some home games after Italia 90 I think the crowds were only 16k - two friendlies against USA & Switzerlkand, despite the carrot of automatically getting onto the block booker list. Football was hardly declining in popularity back then.

I have to say I'm surprised but it looks like the crowd is picking & choosing what to go to these days, even in the rugby.

[elroy]

We got to remember that LR had a capacity of 38k for competitive games. By and large we used to get that crowd but for the lesser qualifiers we didnt always.

For a wkd game we should be looking to fill the stadium but the price is too expensive. Perhaps the prices of tickets should be more graded ie 10e for kids, 15e for certain areas rising up to 60 quid for half way lower tier. Surely an extra 20k in the ground would mean more overall revenue for the FAI even if ticket revenue was down. More emphasis should be placed at getting family deals, ie a dad and two kids could get into a game for 60 quid.

Success is always a factor as well though. It happens at all codes, be it gaa, rugby etc. If the teams are doing well the crowds will follow. Ireland will always have the core 20k support who will attend most games. However its getting the other 20k odd to attend games is the issue.

No doubt that recession is a factor as well. We dont have the affluent support that rugby does for example.

[Freoch]

dad of 3 boys , went to the wales game for twenty euros each , in that excuse for a stand behind the north goal , just bout value for money just to see the stadium and the singin welsh fans beside us provided good entertainment along with an ok game. But sixty a pop to see us play macedonia, didnt have to put much thought into that one. Stupidly expensive. We're (6 of us) headin to spain for a week for 380 flights and accomadation thats me the wife 3boys baby girl. For the six of us to go to that game would have cost that.

[Stuttgart88]

People will pay money for meaningless rugby games over meaningful soccer games because of the popularity of the respective sports in the country.Yet the peak TV audience for the game was c.1 million. For such a huge game. France v Ireland was 2 million.

[jinxy lilywhite]

I think the comparison to Rugby is quite unfair. Every year with the 6 nations we've played England or France or the following years Italy, Scotland and Wales. With the excption of the Italians all those games will sell out due to the fact we are playing neighbours. And also the the irish team is what 4th in the world in rugby but that is out of what a possible max of 8 nations that would be perceived to be top class
Macedonia is not an appetite whetting fixture. In saying that none of the other teams in our group are and we'll struggle to sell out any of our remaining matches. thankfully the TV rights pooling of funds will help the FAI out with the costs but they seriously need to consider the ticketing system on a game by game scenario and price the games in accordance with the level of opposition we play against. What was it €30-50 to watch Macedonia, thats extortion imho

[awec]

Don't forget the six nations games have a good travelling support usually.

[Yard of Pace]

It's far too expensive for a father and son now. Anything that's going to cost over a hundred euro for just the two of you for a few hours sounds ridiculously indulgent right now. It's also far too expensive for students and lads in the 18-35 range once pints, food and travel is factored in. People aren't spending whatever money they have like they used to, I think. The first half against Russia probably didn't help either!