Rugby now more popular than football AND GAA?!

[Drumcondra 69er]

They quote 30,000 here.
http://www.soccer-ireland.com/irish-qualifying-campaigns/euro-2012.htm

Either way comparative figures between the unattractive half of a rugby friendly duo and the attractive qualifier in soccer doesn't bode well for the sport. And at the very least you can't chalk it down to recession when another sport is pulling the numbers for even its most insignificant games. Nor history since I'm sure Irish rugby was in an even worse state for attendance in 1987.

They quote 32,000 on extratime.ie and 33,000 on YBIG. Old capacity with bucket seats for qualifiers was 32,000.

And there were crowds of over 50,000 for 5 nations rugby games in 1987 so you are talking out of your arse.

[amaccann]

Success, success, success and prices. Ireland v Holland under Hand 28,000. 2-1. Next home game v Belgium sell out. The Irish Rugby crew know in their heart of hearts that Rugby will never be a game for the masses. They will never be able to match Ireland v Italy QF or Ireland v Spain last 16. The potential of an Ireland team doing even better than a quarter finals at a major tournatment cannot be matched. The prices for matches now are ridiculous compared to the 70's/80's and most of the 90's. Reduced prices and continued success will see full stadiums.

I disagree with that. Rugby is booming because it's reaching out to the masses, not in spite of it, and is overtaking soccer bigtime. Munster, Leinster (and to a lesser extent, Ulster) have shown that the way forward for rugby was to take the Irish super-clubs and emphasise a strong sense of the community. Munster lead the way with the Thomand fortress - they're known the world over for essentially being the ultimate parish club; and Leinster soon realised the way to people's hearts was to do away with the Ross O'Carroll Kelly mentality. You can now see your international heroes ploughing away each weekend on home turf in the Magners League, and all for a (relative) pittance.

Soccer has fallen way behind on the "local" factor, and that could ultimately sink Irish soccer if we don't start to acknowledge that it's not just the GAA tempting away the youngsters, it's Rugby too.

[mypost]

Spot on. I went with a German mate (might as well be Irish) who said the same thing. He said you could justify it for Russia (maybe Slovakia) but not Macedonia, Armenia and Andorra. He was telling me how in Germany you can see games at top teams for 10-15 euro and get very cheap season tickets.

English football is a rip off in comparison.

It's down to the ticket prices in a broken economy. We're paying 2007 prices in a 2011 economy. Charging the same prices to play Andorra as to play Argentina, is ludicrous, never mind the other games.

[elroy]

Realistically we might sell out the northern ireland game and the slovakia game (particularly if we get a good result in Macedonia). If the last game against Armenia decides qualification that will also sell out as would any potential play off. So its probably going to be the end of the year before the FAI look at the situation again. The friendlies will be lucky to achieve a crowd in excess of 25k (which isnt bad in fairness, problem is it looks bad in such a big stadium, hence a reason for closing some of the ground for these matches).

[Stuttgart88]

I disagree with that. Rugby is booming because it's reaching out to the masses, not in spite of it, and is overtaking soccer bigtime. Munster, Leinster (and to a lesser extent, Ulster) have shown that the way forward for rugby was to take the Irish super-clubs and emphasise a strong sense of the community. Munster lead the way with the Thomand fortress - they're known the world over for essentially being the ultimate parish club; and Leinster soon realised the way to people's hearts was to do away with the Ross O'Carroll Kelly mentality. You can now see your international heroes ploughing away each weekend on home turf in the Magners League, and all for a (relative) pittance.

Soccer has fallen way behind on the "local" factor, and that could ultimately sink Irish soccer if we don't start to acknowledge that it's not just the GAA tempting away the youngsters, it's Rugby too.A lot of what you say is true but despite rugby's boom, soccer is far away the most played sport and the sport with most clubs and active volunteers. Soccer's problem in Ireland is that although it's a country mile ahead of rugby in terms of broad popularity, English football is in the hearts and minds of the people. Even in Rathfarnham, where I'm from, I see more Chelsea and Man U merchandise than Leinster when I'm out and about.

I'm delighted rugby is growing and has become more broadly supported but it can't hold a torch to the grass roots popularity of soccer. My mate in Limerick, the hotbed of Irish rugby, says that soccer is played way more than rugby among kids. This is just one guy's word mind you.

I reckon Man United is way more popular in Dublin than Leinster rugby, without anything tangible to back that up. If the English Rugby Premiership distorted financial and competitive balance to the extent that the Premier League does, not one of our rugby stars would line out for the provincial sides. The rugby structure - commendable as it is - works only because it can.

One really positive thing about sports participation in Ireland in the current generation is that kids play everything: GAA, soccer and rugby. It must be a nightmare for their parents!

[mypost]

Realistically we might sell out the northern ireland game and the slovakia game (particularly if we get a good result in Macedonia). If the last game against Armenia decides qualification that will also sell out as would any potential play off. So its probably going to be the end of the year before the FAI look at the situation again. The friendlies will be lucky to achieve a crowd in excess of 25k (which isnt bad in fairness, problem is it looks bad in such a big stadium, hence a reason for closing some of the ground for these matches).

Assuming the group isn't decided by then, that Armenia game is likely to be a Tuesday 6pm ko at the latest. (Given the time difference to Russia.) It probably won't sell out.

[awec]

A lot of what you say is true but despite rugby's boom, soccer is far away the most played sport and the sport with most clubs and active volunteers. Soccer's problem in Ireland is that although it's a country mile ahead of rugby in terms of broad popularity, English football is in the hearts and minds of the people. Even in Rathfarnham, where I'm from, I see more Chelsea and Man U merchandise than Leinster when I'm out and about.

I'm delighted rugby is growing and has become more broadly supported but it can't hold a torch to the grass roots popularity of soccer. My mate in Limerick, the hotbed of Irish rugby, says that soccer is played way more than rugby among kids. This is just one guy's word mind you.

I reckon Man United is way more popular in Dublin than Leinster rugby, without anything tangible to back that up. If the English Rugby Premiership distorted financial and competitive balance to the extent that the Premier League does, not one of our rugby stars would line out for the provincial sides. The rugby structure - commendable as it is - works only because it can.

One really positive thing about sports participation in Ireland in the current generation is that kids play everything: GAA, soccer and rugby. It must be a nightmare for their parents!

I think soccer is played more amongst kids everywhere. I think this comes down to practicalities though amongst other things.

Kids can play on the road etc football, 2 on 2 or whatever, whereas you can't really just have a kickabout in rugby.

[awec]

Realistically we might sell out the northern ireland game and the slovakia game (particularly if we get a good result in Macedonia). If the last game against Armenia decides qualification that will also sell out as would any potential play off. So its probably going to be the end of the year before the FAI look at the situation again. The friendlies will be lucky to achieve a crowd in excess of 25k (which isnt bad in fairness, problem is it looks bad in such a big stadium, hence a reason for closing some of the ground for these matches).
Can't see the ROI/NI game being a sellout to be honest. Just don't think people will be arsed, especially if ticket prices are high (which is likely).

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's the recession in Ireland & beyond.
And to a much lesser extent, the lack of positive marketing of competitive games by the FAI.

Many people have to travel to Dublin for our games (often an evening KO) and stay overnight, which can be an expensive business if you don't have friends or family to call on. That plus the obvious ticket prices.
Cut the price to €30 max and we'll get close to capacity, plus all the knock-on effects for merchandise and refreshments etc.

Btw, how much does the 'small end' hold? Conversation last night rated it as holding as little as 500-1500....
As my Spanish pal (now a semi-regular at Ireland games) said, "What was even the point of it?" .

[awec]

It's the recession in Ireland & beyond.
And to a much lesser extent, the lack of positive marketing of competitive games by the FAI.

Many people have to travel to Dublin for our games (often an evening KO) and stay overnight, which can be an expensive business if you don't have friends or family to call on. That plus the obvious ticket prices.
Cut the price to €30 max and we'll get close to capacity, plus all the knock-on effects for merchandise and refreshments etc.

Btw, how much does the 'small end' hold? Conversation last night rated it as holding as little as 500-1500....
As my Spanish pal (now a semi-regular at Ireland games) said, "What was even the point of it?" .
The small end holds way more than 500 considering there was something like 5000 NI fans down at that game and the vast majority were in that wee stand.

[Murfinator]

A lot of what you say is true but despite rugby's boom, soccer is far away the most played sport and the sport with most clubs and active volunteers. Soccer's problem in Ireland is that although it's a country mile ahead of rugby in terms of broad popularity, English football is in the hearts and minds of the people. Even in Rathfarnham, where I'm from, I see more Chelsea and Man U merchandise than Leinster when I'm out and about.

I'm delighted rugby is growing and has become more broadly supported but it can't hold a torch to the grass roots popularity of soccer. My mate in Limerick, the hotbed of Irish rugby, says that soccer is played way more than rugby among kids. This is just one guy's word mind you.

I reckon Man United is way more popular in Dublin than Leinster rugby, without anything tangible to back that up. If the English Rugby Premiership distorted financial and competitive balance to the extent that the Premier League does, not one of our rugby stars would line out for the provincial sides. The rugby structure - commendable as it is - works only because it can.

One really positive thing about sports participation in Ireland in the current generation is that kids play everything: GAA, soccer and rugby. It must be a nightmare for their parents!

Soccer is the most played sport among youth in the USA too but its far down the pecking order in terms of the professional game. It's a simple game and easy to play with any number.

I wouldn't agree on the Man Utd comment, I think 10 years that would have been true but I'm not so sure anymore. I'd wager Munster and Leinster are the two most supported clubs in the country by some margin.


Although this is all digressing from the topic. The point I'm making is rugby games both the significant and insignificant are getting high turnouts so I think people putting low crowds purely down to the recession are burrowing their head in the sand as to the actual cause.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The small end holds way more than 500 considering there was something like 5000 NI fans down at that game and the vast majority were in that wee stand.

You were there, but there's no way that end holds 5k. There's only about 15 rows back for a start.

And as for rugby getting higher crowds at Lansdowne, that's purely down to their supporters having more disposable income, typically, to waste.

[awec]

You were there, but there's no way that end holds 5k. There's only about 15 rows back for a start.

And as for rugby getting higher crowds at Lansdowne, that's purely down to their supporters having more disposable income, typically, to waste.

I think the North stands capacity is 3k.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yeah, that what it says on Yahoo answers.

Midgets or kids, you decide....

[Crosby87]

I have to say I'm surprised but it looks like the crowd is picking & choosing what to go to these days, even in the rugby.

Really? Why would you be surprised Stutts? You are ten million times me on this forum which i fully admit but I have to ask have you ever heard of discretionary income? Its not made up man.

[Comic Book Guy]

As Dunphy remarked last night it's the football following public that have been hit hardest by this recession, those who have jobs are saving like there's no tommorrow. The usc has hit ppl hard taking away a big chunk in their disposable income.
I didn't travel Saturday night last night due to work committments, if I did go and were I to bring one of my kids (as I normally do) it would have set me back around €200, between petrol, tickets and food. While I have a job and thank God for that I simply can't justify spending that kind of money anymore.
As for the comparison with Rugby, I don't think it will ever come near to the popularity soccer enjoys, also there is the cyclical nature to the fortunes of both teams, I suspect that the national side may be just past the peak and on a downward curve again although the successes of Munster and morerecently Leinster might counteract that.
Bottom line is that we badly need to qualify for a major tournament again and soon.

[Philly]

I think there is too much focus given to the attendances in the media, things are not as bad as some folk make them out to be.

From wiki, here as the attendance stats from our group:
-----------Highest Lowest Avarage
Andorra---500 250 375
Armenia--14,000 8,682 9,561
Macedonia21,000 17,000 19,000
ROI------- 50,411 32,000 40,898
Russia-----28,000 28,000 28,000
Slovakia---10,892 5,980 8,436
Overall-----121,803 100,735 111,269

Attendance-wise, we are top of our group by quite a bit! I think the FAI's hands are tied as they have to pay for Aviva somehow, and coupled with the recession we are no longer selling venues out. However, if the worse we can do is still better than most countries, so be it.

[amaccann]

A lot of what you say is true but despite rugby's boom, soccer is far away the most played sport and the sport with most clubs and active volunteers. Soccer's problem in Ireland is that although it's a country mile ahead of rugby in terms of broad popularity, English football is in the hearts and minds of the people. Even in Rathfarnham, where I'm from, I see more Chelsea and Man U merchandise than Leinster when I'm out and about.

As mentioned elsewhere, soccer is the most played sport in the US, but far down the pecking order of popular professional sports. Soccer's an easy sport for kids/adult to play spontaneously; jumpers for goalposts - brilliant :)

I think however, your mentioning of Chelsea shirts and the like highlights the problem here - Soccer has become a passive sport, a bit like following Formula 1. I don't know what the average age on this forum is, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that it's most of adult age, old enough to remember the era before saturation Sky coverage, when you got out and physically followed a team. For better or worse, I think soccer in this country has become a spectator sport where people have forgotten about how to follow a team. It's about Sky subscriptions and your replica shirt. At a stretch it's about sitting in a pub, swearing at the TV.

People have forgotten how to support a football team & I don't think it's a coincidence that the atmosphere at international soccer games has nose-dived; nobody knows how you're meant to follow a team on the terraces.

(As an aside, I also challenge the idea mentioned by others that rugby supporters have more disposable income; with Sky subscriptions being as they are, I don't see how following your favourite Premiership team is less expensive than following any of the 4 provinces! The English Premiership is designed to suck supporters dry, whether through tickets, TV coverage, replica shirts etc. At least rugby's free-to-air now...)



[...]
I reckon Man United is way more popular in Dublin than Leinster rugby, without anything tangible to back that up. If the English Rugby Premiership distorted financial and competitive balance to the extent that the Premier League does, not one of our rugby stars would line out for the provincial sides. The rugby structure - commendable as it is - works only because it can.

That system exists, albeit in France. The France top 14 is the English Premiership of European rugby - massive budgets (far in excess of anywhere else), with no salary cap I believe. There is a massive drain of superstar rugby players to this league, and Ireland has come close to losing it's own top players to that league in the past. Most recently, Jamie Heaslip and Johnny Sexton.

[Stuttgart88]

I take the jumpers for goalposts argument, but I was looking at some stats from the Irish Sports Council recently and soccer is second to GAA in the number of registered clubs (so we're not just talking about casual kickabouts) and volunteers active in coaching etc. Rugby barely makes the top ten. The difference in numbers is huge. The ISC state that participation in football is declining, due to the recession, but that rugby participation is increasing - which we all know. 2008 figures are the latest available.

I was surprised at Saturday's turnout because it was a very impoprtant game, albeit against unglamorous opponents. Prices & bundling of tickets with the Uruguay game are an issue. There's an element of crossover between rugby international attenders and football (people like me). I'd say of these, many didn't make the trip because it was back-to-back weekends.

btw, USA got a crowd of 80k for their recent 1-1 with Argentina.

[paul_oshea]

I think people are being slightly naive here, or are being over defensive and somewhat blind to the truth.

The points I was going to raise have all been said so I don't really want to rehash the same stuff again.

The main point here is there is a huge difference between liking, supporting and playing a sport. Many people like watching big fights or irish olympic boxing matches when they come around, they don't follow boxing avidly but only on these occassions. Lots of people play soccer all over the country, whether its indoor soccer, astro 5 or 7-a-side or their sunday league games. But an awful lot of people support rugby, game attendance, jerseys etc etc.

I find over here that I see a lot more Irish Rugby jerseys than Soccer jerseys nowadays which wasn't the case years ago. MAny of the popular irish pubs are packed for rugby games but not for soccer games. The interest in Irish soccer has dwindled quite considerably except for the very big games. Most of the Irish I know over here would be GAA first, and then rugby - and i got to know quite a few when I was London PRO, traditionally these were the sort that would follow soccer as a second sport and then Rugby, but thats not the case anymore. There are many reasons for this as has been pointed out, but I think too much emphasis is placed on the recession as an excuse. I could be way off with this but from when I used to go to watch the rugby matches when I lived in Dublin, rugby crowds would have a far higher percentage of women, and the 18 - 35 age group, whereas soccer would be a lot of young kids with fathers. Its far more fashionable nowadays to say you are going to watch the rugby than going to watch the soccer.

From my experience of the irish diaspora rugby is definitely bigger than soccer - few reasons I suppose, one big one perhaps being the popularity of the sport wherever they end up, but if the diaspora are an indication of home - which i believe they are - then soccer is definitely (currently) not as popular at least interest in the national teams.

What people need to realise also is to look outside their own communities and areas. Ive seen it from people all over the 32 counties, Donegal is probably the only county where you still get half and half and way more popular than rugby, but thats about it.

[awec]

I take the jumpers for goalposts argument, but I was looking at some stats from the Irish Sports Council recently and soccer is second to GAA in the number of registered clubs (so we're not just talking about casual kickabouts) and volunteers active in coaching etc. Rugby barely makes the top ten. The difference in numbers is huge. The ISC state that participation in football is declining, due to the recession, but that rugby participation is increasing - which we all know. 2008 figures are the latest available.

I was surprised at Saturday's turnout because it was a very impoprtant game, albeit against unglamorous opponents. Prices & bundling of tickets with the Uruguay game are an issue. There's an element of crossover between rugby international attenders and football (people like me). I'd say of these, many didn't make the trip because it was back-to-back weekends.

btw, USA got a crowd of 80k for their recent 1-1 with Argentina.

You have to take the countries population into account as well. If 300 million people lived in Ireland I reckon you would have 80K at every game too!

[tetsujin1979]

Independent gave the attendace as 33,200 - http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/match-in-stats-2596925.html - which I think is generous

[AlaskaFox]

Rugby fans are often from the wealthier classes (just look at the schools that play it), and thus can afford more expensive tickets.

All sports tickets are over-priced in Ireland. Even for an inter-county game, you won't see too many people paying €20 on a rainy Sunday into Wexford Park.

[peadar1987]

I think the fact that the 6 nations is many peoples' only contact with rugby might have a lot to do with it as well. You have the 6 nations, and then maybe 7 or 8 Heineken Cup games for the more committed. If there was a constant bombardment of all kinds of rugby from all parts of the world, I don't think the 6 nations would sell out. For football, I think a lot of people will be reluctant to pay €60 for a football ticket, when there'll be Sky Mega Extra Extreme Football Sunday on in 4 days anyway.

[Straightstory]

Walking in to the surprisingly empty-looking stadium, I saw two blokes talking: 'I hope this is half as good as the rugby last week.' 'Yes, we'll be talking about that for a while'.
Man immediately to my right in the stand turns on mobile phone: Man United logo immediately comes up.
Chap in row in front of me wearing a Leinster Rugby jersey.
Sums up Irish fans: Premiership fixated wishy-washy event junkies. Can never understand 'Irish fans are the best in the world'. They're surely amongst the worst.

[Macy]

Kick off time was at least a factor for some people I know. Our children are too young (and their dad won't be taking them while Delaney's in charge anyway), but they'd have to be fairly old to be taken to an evening game regardless of price - it was a factor in one of my work collegues passing up tickets anyway. Obviously prices and recession are a factor.

As others have alluded too, there's a bigger problem to be addressed than just prices, or recession. Lots of Irish people "follow" football - sod all of them bother going to games regularly. Then many of the fans of clubs that these people claim to support, with whom they desperately want to be accepted by, dismiss international football (United for example). The FAI are reaping what they've sowed over several decades - they've managed to alienate a significant proportion of the supporters that do support football in this country, never mind actually investing time and money in developing the domestic game. We rely on British Football to produce players, have school boy clubs proud of being called nursery clubs for British teams, and we follow British football at the expense of our own league, and then we expect to have vibrant team with a vibrant support? I don't expect too many commentators or journo's to be looking at the wider picture - they're part of the problem.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The prices are too dear for the home-based fairweather fans....End of.

[OwlsFan]

I don't buy this recession excuse. The last recession, friendlies aside, we were pretty much filling the grounds for competitive games, albeit I admit at a relatively lower price but then you risked life and limb on the terrace.

What will happen if we come to our last home game (against Armenia??) needing to win. The game will be sold out 3 times over despite the recession. It's the big match syndrome. There has always been a hardcore Irish support of about 25k going back many years who will be there even if we're playing a Stephen Ireland Granny XI in a competitive game and the match on Saturday proved it. Most (not all) of the rest will show up when we're playing France, Italy, Russia or something big is at stake. No big deal. Accept and move on.

[jbyrne]

And yet these abysmal crowds were still better than Macedonia. Are you saying a friendly game to Samoa is more attractive than a qualifier to Macedonia? Because the Samoa friendly still had more people attending. Claim rubbish all you like, your ignoring the true reason here.

People will pay money for meaningless rugby games over meaningful soccer games because of the popularity of the respective sports in the country.

the samoan match was coupled with the much bigger SA match hence the semi decent crowd at samoa. last season Ireland played Fiji (not coupled ticketwise with a bigger match) in the RDS and the crowd was only about 16,000.

the corporate day out brigade that attend the bigger rugby matches greatly boosts attendances.

[harps1954]

More emphasis should be placed at getting family deals, ie a dad and two kids could get into a game for 60 quid.

I took my two kids with me on Saturday night. €45 for my ticket and €10 each for the kids - sitting in the Upper tier of the South Stand. Two blocks up there are designated as the family section.

It's not long ago since France and Italy both came to Croke Park and there was circ. 70,000 tickets available priced at €70 and €50. People were complaining then that they couldn't get a ticket and that the 'true fan' was been overlooked. Same as when the move to Lansdowne was happening again when it looked like their would be no increase in the block-booking scheme and people were again complaining that they were been overlooked. Now, when there are loads of tickets available for games, people are complaining about the price.

I agree the current recession is not helping things. At the moment, tickets are cheaper than they have been at any point in the last six years or so. Also, bundling competitive/friendly ticket is nothing new - this happened for every friendly game in Croke Park.

The cost of a ticket in the upper tier tomorrow night for the Uruguay game is €30 (I think for previous friendly games this was as high as €45). Even if the FAI dropped the price of this ticket to €15, I think the only people it would beneift is those living in Dublin. Take me, I live in Donegal. If I travelled to the game tomorrow it would cost me €30 for the match ticket, about €45 for petrol and maybe allow another €15-€20 for food. That's a total of €85-€90 just to go to that game. Even if the FAI dropped the price of the ticket to €15, it would still cost me somewhere between €70-€75 to go to tomorrow's game. It the whole matchday experience that is costly, not just the match ticket. It's not the FAI's fault that the price of petrol is now over €1.50 a litre. It's the price of everything in Ireland that is the problem, not just the match ticket which is only about a third of the cost of the matchday experience. I guarantee you if the FAI sold friendly tickets on their own for tomorrow night's game (and it wasn't bundled in with the Macedonia game) and only charged €20 a ticket for all areas of the ground, there would still only be 20,000 people at the game (regardless of what people say).

[awec]

The fact that people have to travel is a good consideration. If people have to work the next day they are unlikely to want to have to do a long late night drive home after a match.

If you have a long journey to get to Dublin it's likely you'll have to take a day or at least a half day off work. Many view this as a waste of precious holiday days to use up for a friendly game (and their missus probably isn't too keen on them using all their days off work to go to the football :D )

[an_ceannaire]

lads it boils down to this. In participation numbers, as in the people playing the game, rugby will never touch football. And when it comes to casual watching ie Magners League V Premiership football, the same is true. But when it comes to national interest, ie interest in the national team and attendance at national team competitive games, Rugby is kicking footballs arse these days. Far more people play football, far more people watch and care about Rugby tho.

[EastTerracer]

I accept that Ireland in the six nations will draw big attendances and TV viewership as, in a tounament of only 5 serious contenders, there is always the possibility of Ireland winning something (triple crown, grand slam or just a bit of local rivallry like last week). However, when we're playing Macedonia, Armenia, Andorra there clearly isn't the same level of interest.

The true test of the respective interest in the sports only becomes clear when Irish football has a really big game (equivalent to the six nations level). Given we haven't qualified for anything since 2002 these game don't happen very often but I think I'm right in saying that the playoff games against France in 2009 had bigger TV audiences than Ireland winning the grand-slam matches in rugby the same year.

[an_ceannaire]

I accept that Ireland in the six nations will draw big attendances and TV viewership as, in a tounament of only 5 serious contenders, there is always the possibility of Ireland winning something (triple crown, grand slam or just a bit of local rivallry like last week). However, when we're playing Macedonia, Armenia, Andorra there clearly isn't the same level of interest.

The true test of the respective interest in the sports only becomes clear when Irish football has a really big game (equivalent to the six nations level). Given we haven't qualified for anything since 2002 these game don't happen very often but I think I'm right in saying that the playoff games against France in 2009 had bigger TV audiences than Ireland winning the grand-slam matches in rugby the same year.

Your wrong actually man
The GS game in Cardiff was rte's biggest number puller for something like 8 years and beat the Ireland France away game which had a higher figure than the home game V France.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't think that's true an_ceannaire. The peak viewing figure for the Paris game was over 2 million, a staggering figure. The GS game was something like 1.1 million. Football TV figures compare very favourably versus the rugby.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2009/1119/ireland_rte.html


I think you're right in saying that rugby is flavour of the month right now. It has been for 5 years or more. But football friendly attendances have really only dropped in the last 12 months. That suggests to me that people are picking & choosing and watching their wallets.

Can I post a spreadsheet here anyway? Tets?

I got sent some stats by the TV market research people for an exercise I was doing last year.

[paul_oshea]

You need to upload it to a server to paste the link. Vbulletin boards hosted on servers dont provide storage.

[amaccann]

It's also worth pointing out that Leinster, Ulster & Munster regularly get 10k + for their Magners home games, that climbs to as high as 35,000 for big Heinekin Cup matches in Munster, with about 20K for Leinster. So it's not just the international matches that rugby's clambering for the public's attention. Locally, the sport is in our faces week in, week out; all emphasising local community sports, competing on an international stage.

That's what marketeers I believe call brand reinforcement. Even if you're not avidly following rugby, it's in your consciousness far more than soccer may be.

Again, take away the English Premiership & what does soccer have in this country to get the spirits flowing on a regular basis? The odd competitive international fixture (featuring a team whose football is a bit stale) and that's it. Our top Irish league is moribund & when our international team starts featuring players from Championship also-rans and League 1 players (that's not a slight on Kilbane btw, the man's a legend & an inspiration to any sports person), that's when you start to wonder if chickens are coming home to roost.

Jesus, even I found myself "forgetting" about the Ireland team and it was only the Macedonia game on the horizon that jolted me back into paying attention.

[paul_oshea]

Look Shamrock Rovers are going to dominate the Europa league soon so don't worry. You can have your brand reinforcement then.

Seriouslly though if shamrock rovers(or any other team) were to make the group stages of CL(very unlikely at this stage,I reckon a good chance of Europa league) and did it more than a once off, then soccer locally would be right up there again.

[elroy]

Your wrong actually man
The GS game in Cardiff was rte's biggest number puller for something like 8 years and beat the Ireland France away game which had a higher figure than the home game V France.

For a fact that is incorrect. The French away game broke records for viewership and was a country mile ahead of the rugger. And thats only 2 years ago and at a time when rugby was flying! I think the Italy home game may have beaten the rugger in viewership figures as well but I cant confirm that.

In the last ten years, I believe Irish football has been the highest viewered sporting event for the year seven times. There is def a post on this not too long ago with valid link, ill try dig it out.

[amaccann]

Look Shamrock Rovers are going to dominate the Europa league soon so don't worry. You can have your brand reinforcement then.

Seriouslly though if shamrock rovers(or any other team) were to make the group stages of CL(very unlikely at this stage,I reckon a good chance of Europa league) and did it more than a once off, then soccer locally would be right up there again.

I'm not sure about that - look what happened Shelbourne, Drogheda, Bohemians, etc. They inflated their wage bill on potential European success that didn't come. Nor did any massive influx of crowds. The state of Irish soccer's a bigger subject for here, but I'm not sure that Euro success for 1-team will guarantee a trickle-down effect for the rest of the league.

[Stuttgart88]

OK, did some number crunching. The Rugby 6N in the Grand Slam year averaged 703k on RTE. Bear in mind from the moment we beat France at home the much vaunted Slam was on the cards.

The WC10 campaign average - not including the play offs - was 541k. This is behind the rugby but includes games against Georgia, Cyprus and Montenegro. Including the play-offs the average RTE football figure was 626k.

626k versus 703k is quite a good showing versus rugby considering there were quite a few uninspiring games, and there was a lot of expectation in the rugby in 2009.

I'm not sure I fully understood what exactly the figures represnt though. Peak, avearge or whatever.

[Stuttgart88]

For a fact that is incorrect. The French away game broke records for viewership and was a country mile ahead of the rugger. And thats only 2 years ago and at a time when rugby was flying! I think the Italy home game may have beaten the rugger in viewership figures as well but I cant confirm that.

In the last ten years, I believe Irish football has been the highest viewered sporting event for the year seven times. There is def a post on this not too long ago with valid link, ill try dig it out.Gspain was the man

[elroy]

It's also worth pointing out that Leinster, Ulster & Munster regularly get 10k + for their Magners home games, that climbs to as high as 35,000 for big Heinekin Cup matches in Munster, with about 20K for Leinster. So it's not just the international matches that rugby's clambering for the public's attention. Locally, the sport is in our faces week in, week out; all emphasising local community sports, competing on an international stage.

That's what marketeers I believe call brand reinforcement. Even if you're not avidly following rugby, it's in your consciousness far more than soccer may be.

Again, take away the English Premiership & what does soccer have in this country to get the spirits flowing on a regular basis? The odd competitive international fixture (featuring a team whose football is a bit stale) and that's it. Our top Irish league is moribund & when our international team starts featuring players from Championship also-rans and League 1 players (that's not a slight on Kilbane btw, the man's a legend & an inspiration to any sports person), that's when you start to wonder if chickens are coming home to roost.

Jesus, even I found myself "forgetting" about the Ireland team and it was only the Macedonia game on the horizon that jolted me back into paying attention.

This is a valid point, creating a brand, a feel good factor, a sense of community etc. A feeling that has people talking about the game,making it attractive to attend etc. Shamrock Rovers have developed something akin to this in recent years, Derry City and Sligo Rovers too. Thats what we need to do in this country. Leinster/Munster have been the masters at it in the last decade.........they get regular crowds in excess of 10k for games which if we're honest alot of time are not particularly exciting. Its the overall product that matters and the sense of been part of something. Call it bandwagon if you want but it works!

[tetsujin1979]

Can I post a spreadsheet here anyway? Tets?

I got sent some stats by the TV market research people for an exercise I was doing last year.
Not really, when I post a table I have to export it from Excel/OpenOffice as fixed text, and then paste it into a [code] block

[SkStu]

Look Shamrock Rovers are going to dominate the Europa league soon so don't worry. You can have your brand reinforcement then.

Seriouslly though if shamrock rovers(or any other team) were to make the group stages of CL(very unlikely at this stage,I reckon a good chance of Europa league) and did it more than a once off, then soccer locally would be right up there again.

I also dont entirely agree with this logic - If success in Europe was to come for any team a few things would be needed before the "Great Irish Sporting Public" tm would buy in.

The main thing, it would need to be regular - if its a once off, youre doomed - ask Shels. Secondly, it would just mean more people become Rovers fans or Bohs fans in name only, not actually bothering to attend league games - glamorous, shiny, sparkly games only please! Also, it would mean that people in Galway for example would more likely be Rovers "fans" instead of Galway fans thus creating a hideous Rosenborg type monopoly. Furthermore, once the inevitable slump came the the public would lose interest again - it will happen for rugby, it would happen in Paul's scenario too. And finally, the world is ending on December 21, 2012 anyway so its too late for an Irish team to create a dynasty.

This is our mindset.

[colster]

Some comments on the rising popularity of Rugby. Firstly, Rugby has always been popular at International level in Ireland. There were always large crowds even when the team was brutal (and that was most of the time). Since going professional I think that both Munster and now Leinster have tapped into the community and local clubs so much so that there is a closer link to their community (which is growing) than the Irish soccer team have. For example, my nephew (10) plays rugby for St Marys and he has had training sessions with a couple of Leinster players, some of the Senior St Marys players and at the end of the season Johnathan Sexton and the other St Marys players playing for Leinster attended their end of season party and gave out medals, autographs etc. This is possible the strength that Irish Rugby has at the moment i.e. the fact that a young lad can play rugby and be within touching distance of his heroes literally.
Also, if you look at Leinster for example they have 13000 season ticket holders this year. They currently have a waiting list for Season Tickets. They are limited by the size of the RDS,. They have played 2 games in the Aviva this year and have got over 40,000 at both games. They have sold it out again for the HEC quarter final.

[mypost]

I took my two kids with me on Saturday night. €45 for my ticket and €10 each for the kids - sitting in the Upper tier of the South Stand. Two blocks up there are designated as the family section.

It's not long ago since France and Italy both came to Croke Park and there was circ. 70,000 tickets available priced at €70 and €50. People were complaining then that they couldn't get a ticket and that the 'true fan' was been overlooked. Same as when the move to Lansdowne was happening again when it looked like their would be no increase in the block-booking scheme and people were again complaining that they were been overlooked. Now, when there are loads of tickets available for games, people are complaining about the price.

The cost of a ticket in the upper tier tomorrow night for the Uruguay game is €30 (I think for previous friendly games this was as high as €45). Even if the FAI dropped the price of this ticket to €15, I think the only people it would beneift is those living in Dublin. Take me, I live in Donegal. If I travelled to the game tomorrow it would cost me €30 for the match ticket, about €45 for petrol and maybe allow another €15-€20 for food. That's a total of €85-€90 just to go to that game. Even if the FAI dropped the price of the ticket to €15, it would still cost me somewhere between €70-€75 to go to tomorrow's game. It the whole matchday experience that is costly, not just the match ticket. It's not the FAI's fault that the price of petrol is now over €1.50 a litre. It's the price of everything in Ireland that is the problem, not just the match ticket which is only about a third of the cost of the matchday experience. I guarantee you if the FAI sold friendly tickets on their own for tomorrow night's game (and it wasn't bundled in with the Macedonia game) and only charged €20 a ticket for all areas of the ground, there would still only be 20,000 people at the game (regardless of what people say).

Most people pay their tickets well before the game takes place, and so their costs on gamenight are considerably lower. A lot of people use private buses, and trains, either local or national. Irish Rail put extra trains on, and night trains back. For food, people can get it at reasonable prices away from Lansdowne. I don't pay for food or drink at Lansdowne, just a couple of Euro for transport, and a bit more for food elsewhere. That's about as far as it goes. No programmes, no merchandise. Don't need it.




I accept that Ireland in the six nations will draw big attendances and TV viewership as, in a tounament of only 5 serious contenders, there is always the possibility of Ireland winning something (triple crown, grand slam or just a bit of local rivallry like last week). However, when we're playing Macedonia, Armenia, Andorra there clearly isn't the same level of interest.

The true test of the respective interest in the sports only becomes clear when Irish football has a really big game (equivalent to the six nations level). Given we haven't qualified for anything since 2002 these game don't happen very often but I think I'm right in saying that the playoff games against France in 2009 had bigger TV audiences than Ireland winning the grand-slam matches in rugby the same year.

Television is a major factor in rugger's appeal. So much so that RTE are prioritising U-20 egg-chasing over senior LOI football on a Friday night. TV can make even the most mundane sports games glamourous. Ireland games are always on RTE, the province games are always on tv. People take notice when you're on tv. If Rovers progress in European competition this summer, we'll be on tv much more often, and LOI will attract much more interest than normal. If Ireland qualify for the European finals, come next June 12 months, everyone will be watching our games, and nobody will give a flying banana about rugby.

Our attendance on Saturday night would have sold out the old Lansdowne, it only looks poor because of the stadium's much bigger capacity now.

[Charlie Darwin]

Look Shamrock Rovers are going to dominate the Europa league soon so don't worry. You can have your brand reinforcement then.

Seriouslly though if shamrock rovers(or any other team) were to make the group stages of CL(very unlikely at this stage,I reckon a good chance of Europa league) and did it more than a once off, then soccer locally would be right up there again.
If Shamrock Rovers make the group stages in Europe, Rovers will be right up there again. No guarantee any other team would benefit from that.

[backstothewall]

Crowds might be a bit better for Uruguay if it was possible to buy a ticket on the FAI website. I was considering heading down but there's no way I'm buying a 2 ticket package for it and the the Macedonia game. I know we made the DeLorean up here, but that flux capacitor thing wasn't standard on them.

[CraftyToePoke]

Crowds might be a bit better for Uruguay if it was possible to buy a ticket on the FAI website. I was considering heading down but there's no way I'm buying a 2 ticket package for it and the the Macedonia game. I know we made the DeLorean up here, but that flux capacitor thing wasn't standard on them.



http://www.ticketmaster.ie/event/18004652C5C566E7?camefrom=CFC_IE_AFF_FAI&brand=ie_fai